Just got off the phone with an impeccable source -- a close relative -- in the Albany, NY, area. I won't say who, and I won't say exactly where, to protect him and me. As some of you know, I've already had two "predator sightings," as Cory calls them, so I don't post under my real name anymore and I keep a low y2k profile in the real-time world. If the pollies want to flame me for passing on another anonymous post, so be it, but all I can say is this is straight, an eyewitness account. If there's anyone in the Albany area reading, this, perhaps s/he can confirm some of it.

Albany airport has seen a major -- and unprecedented in recent years -- military build-up in the past few weeks. Many of the tanks at the local National Guard/Reserve armory have already been dispersed to surrounding cities, including Schenectady and Troy. A nearby Best Western motel recently took reservations from the U.S. Army for 50 rooms for the week around New Years -- doubles, with four men to a room. (No jokes, please, this is serious.)

My source also has a neighbor who is a New York state trooper. The trooper told him that every state police officer in New York was recently issued a 20-page y2k preparation document. He then took my source into his back yard to show off the large propane tanks, the cords of wood, and the well that he has dug so he wouldn't have to depend on city water. The trooper knew about the military at Albany airport and the tank dispersal; he expects a martial law declaration at the first hint of y2k-related problems. He also warned my friend not to think in terms of 12.31/01.01. Things -- government action of some type -- will start happening around the end of November or early December.

If anyone can offer confirmation or denial, I would like to hear more. My source is one of the most level-headed people I know -- and a week ago he bought a 12-gauge Mossberg 590 (the one built to mil.spec) on the advice of his state trooper neighbor.

-- Cash (cash@andcarry.com), October 19, 1999

Answers

This sounds like pure bullshit-Troll

-- hoggie Jones (hoggie@hotmail.com), October 19, 1999.

Don't know who you are, friend, but I don't troll and haven't in the two-plus years I've frequented this board. This is for real, according to a source I trust. I'm looking for confirmation. Unless you have something substantive to offer, try mouthing off somewhere else.

-- Cash (cash@andcarry.com), October 19, 1999.

I believe you because I have a friend who owns a motel in town. She received a phone call from someone identifying themselves as a government official. They asked her if on short notice how many people could she board. She told them she wasn't boarding anyone. They told her that she would because they would come in and seize her property for government use. Believe what you wish, but this is the truth.

-- ~~~~~~ (~~~~@~~~.com), October 19, 1999.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0451628810/o/qid=940385422/sr=2 -1/002-8882022-2569012

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 19, 1999.

NY troopers will also confiscate rubbers....I have been told..

-- fred (fred@aol.com), October 19, 1999.

Liberty, I can't access the URL you gave. Can you give more info?

-- Cash (cash@andcarry.com), October 19, 1999.

the link to the Federalist Papers reminds me of a quote from a case I read in September (I'm a first year law student). The case is Whittaker v. Stangvick, et al, 111 NW 295 (1907) and it relates to a trespass action but the quote struck home with me in regard to the current gun control debate. On page 296 of the case the judge quotes a case from 1818 where a Judge talks about the public concern that there should be hunters to form a competent militia to oppose that great danger to free institutions, a standing army. That really is a powerful statement and gives great insight to what citizens of America were thinking in 1818.

-- Diane (DDEsq2002@juno.com), October 19, 1999.

...and what their leaders are thinking in 1999.

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 19, 1999.

Fred, I will give them used ones, or better yet, lace them with something that will REALLY feel good! Saltpeter for the peter?

-- Yikes (Yikes@yikesss.xcom), October 19, 1999.

Cash,

Just go to amazon.com and do a book search on Federalist Papers.

Buy 'em now, before they become "anti-government hate literature" subject to confiscation.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 19, 1999.

Thanks, Cash.

Unlike hoggie, most here will take your news 'for what its worth' and make their own analysis or deductions. IF martial law is a planned event, you can bet your bottom dollar the vast majority will be taken completely unaware. And, like Y2K prep in general, what harm is there to being prewarned and at least thinking about possible contingencies?

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), October 19, 1999.

This link should work

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0 451628810/o/qid=940385422/sr=2-1/002-8882022-2569012

-- (not@now.com), October 19, 1999.

Cash, I find it hard to believe that martial law will be declared anytime before Christmas. The Christmas shopping season is so important to the economy and any kind of martial law situation would surely put a major damper on normal shopping activities. Things would have to get really crazy for martial law to be put into place before December 25th, IMHO.

-- Ohio Bob (ohiobob@buckeyestate.com), October 19, 1999.

Do you honestly think the gov't CARES about holiday shopping when the very foundation of the government is being rocked? C'mon.

-- Diane (DDEsq2002@juno.com), October 19, 1999.

may be a good time to review the following - the very first "c4i" post. wish they would offer any update to the following.

------

We have a background in C2 (Command and Control). This means we are BIG PICTURE people. We're paid to play the "What If" Game. We're paid to extrapolate information and trend data. We're paid to provide an OVERALL assessment of operations, support, logistics, and socioeconomic and psychological factors for situations. We're paid to plan strategies for the long view. In short it means we have the information, tools, intelligence systems, talent, and know-how at this organization's disposal to reasonably forecast and predict outcomes.

We have an 89.3% rate of our forecasts coming true and this is for events without a definitive date. This organization is studying Y2K. Yes, we are DOD. No, we don't like this scenario. We believe it is not only possible, it is probable. Our assessment as follows:

1. Because we the government, and in particular him the CINC, has done nothing public other than preach "the winter storm" the country cannot and will not prepare in a timely fashion. We will go 10. The CINC is in deep denial, and still believes with the VCINC that Gates will pull a rabbit out of his hat.

2. Initial power outages will be 1-2 weeks in the South and Midwest. The Northeast will experience 3-4 week outages, the West and Southwest 2-3 weeks. We're not talking brownouts.

3. Dee Cee will be an armed camp starting 15 Dec 99. There are 120 major cities within the U.S. There are approximately 2.25 million troops; this includes the NG and Reserves. The cities will be chaotic at best and the troops will not be sent in, they will be used to cordon off areas of unrest. Isolate the fire.

4. The following industries will be nationalized: Power, Fuel, Transportation, Agriculture (not individual farms), Chemical, Mining, Pharmaceuticals, Hospitals, and Communications. There will be a bank holiday before the rollover -date determined by the people.

5. Governors will institute Martial Law for heavily populated areas. The CINC will usurp the Governors and declare national Martial Law to restrict interstate travel and to mobilize the work force. The CINC's action will be too much for many in both the military and private sector. The "Militia" groups will mobilize.

6. The Congress will activate the inactive Militia "all able bodied males between the ages of 17 and 45" will report to designated staging and training areas, the hope is to quell dissent and re-establish a Constitutional methodology to the event. The "Militia" actually a pseudo-militia, they have no Constitutional standing, they don't fall under the discipline prescribed by Congress (Art I, Sec 8, Clauses 15 & 16) will balk. Open insurrection ensues

7. Famine and disease will breakout in the parts of the cities not under Martial Law. Fighting is widespread for strategic transportation hubs, fuel depots, armories, and granaries. More service members desert or join the militia. Class warfare ensues.

8. Several missile launch complexes are taken. Negotiation with Dee Cee begins. NORAD falls via an insider. Dee Cee capitulates.

There is no definitive timeline other than the panic will ensue Sept-Oct timeframe.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), June 10,

-- not c4i (but aware @nd. prepared), October 19, 1999.

OhioBob: I tend to agree with you. The military dispositions my friend recounted were explained to him as a "just in case" action, to "heighten the military profile among the public." I think it would be pure economic suicide -- assuming the rollover's actual y2k problem level is low -- to move prematurely. To be honest, right up until tonight I thought the whole martial law idea was just a little too far out to consider realistic. I'm still putting more credence in the state trooper's actions than anything else. The military stuff could (am I being too naive here?) just be leftovers from summer guard/Reserve training or something. Still, if there's someone on this board in the Albany area, it should be easy enough to check out.

-- Cash (cash@andcarry.com), October 19, 1999.

Cash,

I'll see what I can find out this weekend. My father-in-law lives in Albany and is pretty well connected. He's coming down this weekend to visit so I'll ask him what he knows. My brother-in-law (on my wifes side) is a NY State Trooper stationed just outside Albany. Last time I talked to him about Y2K (in July) he said they were preparing for problems and that they had just recieved 5,000 (yes that's THOUSAND) sniper rifles. I said "that's a lot of rifles" he said "yes, but I doubt even 10% will be used before the end of the year because they don't have a training budget". Go figure...

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), October 19, 1999.

TECH, I'll be interested in what you find out. I haven't noticed anything special going on here in northern New England, except for the supermarket chain that's handing out y2k preparation checklists. By Sunday this thread will be ancient history, considering the average lifespan of a topic on this board, so a new thread will probably be in order. I'll be waiting -- and so will a few other people, I'll bet.

-- Cash (cash@andcarry.com), October 19, 1999.

Diane, if the government really believes that their very foundation is being rocked, then I guess they wouldn't be too concerned about the holiday shopping season. But, I don't really think they are that worried, at least not yet. They will do their best to protect the Christmas shopping season and try to prevent any panic until after December 25th.

-- Ohio Bob (ohiobob@buckeyestate.com), October 19, 1999.

This last summer, on two different occasions, once while on Interstate 395 in CT and again on Interstate 89 in NH I passed convoys of at least a dozen large-caliber howitzers heading north. I have seen NG and Army convoys before, but not towing so damn many large guns at once. Just thought it a mite unusual...

JJ

-- Jeremiah Jetson (laterthan@uthink.y2k), October 19, 1999.

Jeremiah:

1) they would have been headed toward Drum, which has a far from insignificant arty range.

2) cash has been around longer than I have, and has posted an interesting quantity of later-verifued to whatever number of palces/signifficant digits you might have wanted.

3) Cash, are you SURE that you are not just seeing the tail end of summer training at Drum??

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), October 20, 1999.

Thanks, Chuck, for verifying that cash is someone known to the forum.

not c4i,

I saw a poster at Biffy claiming to be the perpetrator of the c4i hoax. For what it's worth, the other pollies there seemed to know who it was.

-- (thanks@chuck.net), October 20, 1999.

Just for fun I called four major hotel/motel chains in Albany and requested reservations between 26 December 1999 and 3 January 2000. All four were more than happy to accommodate my request.

Thought you'd like to know...

-- Uncle Bob (UNCLB0B@Y2KOK.ORG), October 20, 1999.

This stuff about martial law is old news. We have at least 1 million UN troops all over the country right now. They are training now in antiterrorist maneuvers. They have been here for a few years. They are all foreign troops, meaning they would not hesitate to kill an American, just to disarm them. As to Martial Law before Christmas, maybe. The Federal Reserve bankers control the fluctuation of our economy, so the Christmas season has nothing to do with our economy. There are a few people who have a lot to gain from seeing economic collapse in this country.

-- ChefTRD (cheftrd@hotmail.com), October 20, 1999.

Compare the Navy 'what if' doc to the c4 hoax.... especially this one is a joke:

" 8. Several missile launch complexes are taken. Negotiation with Dee Cee begins. NORAD falls via an insider. Dee Cee capitulates."

You would never find anyone connected to DOD publicly stating this stuff...it's not part of their what if vocabulary.

Plus the numerous grammatical errors...too sloppy.

-- Shelia (Shelia@active-stream.com), October 20, 1999.

Cash

I used to think that the stories of the government getting emergency accomodations together was pure paranoid gossip/bullshit. A week ago my wife and I had a long talk with a family friend who knew nothing other than what the popular media has preached. We confined our points to the basic Yourdon type speel since she had no real background. She called back about three days ago and said that her Mother, who lives in HUD housing in Riverside CA, had just been approached by some government types about how many additional people could she handle in her apartment. The gov thugs wouldn't give Momma any clue as to why they wanted the committment/information.

Our friend was as pure as the driven snow with no exposure to any of the conspiratorial angles of Y2K so I was shocked by her testimony.

-- Dana (A_Non_O_Moose@xxx.com), October 20, 1999.

Chuck: Thanks for the kind words. I *hope* my friend was seeing the tail-end of summer guard training, although this time of year -- mid- October -- seems a little late in the cycle. All I am sure of right now is that someone who had taken a rather laissez-faire attitude toward the rollover is now stocking up on food and fuel and heading for the firing range this weekend to practice with his new shotgun, based on his first-hand information. That's why I'm hoping TECH or someone else in that region can ferret out information that might offer a more conventional explanation. His information about the army room reservations came directly from the motel manager -- it would be nice if we find out that maybe there's some kind of military parade or display around New Year's that would explain it in less ominous terms than he was offering. It would also be nice to discover that the military presence at Albany airport was because Hillary was flying in and out or something. I don't know: that's why I'm asking here.

-- Cash (cash@andcarry.com), October 20, 1999.

Sadly, I live in Albany. There is no evidence that anyone cares about Y2K, except: First Night will be held at 7pm, NiMo states officially that "we have done everything possible to ensure power on Jan. 1," (to which I say 'uh-oh'), and the big signs on Madison and State streets that say "Submit."

-- Spidey (in@jam.backwater), October 20, 1999.

ref c4i

Well, if biffy has someone who sez they did it, then they have figgered out how to post from Ramstein.

C

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), October 20, 1999.

Chuck: clue me: Ramstein??

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), October 20, 1999.

Answer to Diane above --

The holiday shopping season IS the foundation on which the government, and the society in general, lies. Without at least a halfway decent (and many quarters are predicting record sales this year) holiday shopping season, there could easily be a recession, even without disruptions. Some retailers lose money nine months out of the year, many just cover expenses, and make their profits between the end of October and the beginning of January. Don't be fooled into thinking that protecting this (along with the banking system -- remember, most of those retailers borrowed money, and are supposed to pay it back) isn't among the prime directives.

Relating this to NG troops and hardware in Albany or elsewhere? They will keep this very quiet (if it is indeed happening), so as not to spook people out of buying stuff for the holidays.

-- (dot@dot.dot), October 20, 1999.

Remember a while ago when we discussed convoys of military fuel trucks on the road?

The last 5 I saw (I mean big-rig sized trucks) were headed into the city of Watertown, away from Ft. Drum. I thought this was especially interesting when I read Jim Lord's original Navy report, which ID'd Watertown as likely to have total failure of gas & water systems. There's a Naval reserve station in the city, plus an Army Nat'l Guard unit.

Also, on Ft Drum itself, there's been a big hurry this year to convert from coal-generated steam heat to natural gas and propane. In fact, if you drive through the old side of post (where the steam- heat lines were not installed, just electric heat) every building has a shiney new propane tank sitting outside it. (good for the vendor, wish I'd had a piece of THAT contract!). 'Course, I'm sure it's just because propane is more cost effective. Bet the contractor for the steam plant is steamed, though. That contract still had a couple of years on it.

Rumor control also says that our boys & girls in the Baltics will be home early. This from a couple of wives who talk to hubby each month through Moral & Welfare.

As far as Albany, it's where my Dad lived, and Cash ain't kidding about the preps going on there. Like I said earlier, I talked to a few people down there, and stuff's starting to happen. No, it's not happening at the mall or at McDonald's, but it's happening.

Can I provide documentation for any of this? Nope. But a lot of what we all get out of this forum is based on trust and esteem for other people's opinions. You'll either take my word for it, or you won't.

Wish our Governor would make an effort for us. Guess he's worried about panic in NYC. Now if Hillary was only here.... ;)

-- Arewyn (isitthatlate@lready.com), October 20, 1999.

Chuck:

Are you referring to Ramstein Air Base in Germany, the big US/NATO base? Last I heard it was an important military intelligence center for all of Europe. Had a classmate stationed at a listening post near there during Cold War days. Hard to believe a biffie buff could penetrate that security.

-- Cash (cash@andcarry.com), October 20, 1999.

Hi all, live around Albany but mostly at markets. We in this area should also check the Watervliet Arsenal for any recent activity. Anyone in area want to check with me? I'm in Guilderland more often than Airport, but will drive through any area here that local friends suggest. Someone said area wasn't too aware, but I swear that many bean, grain (oatmeal) items have been very low or even wiped out at the Hannafords here. I check at 6:30 AM and late night. Albany folks, keep me posted. e-address is real.

-- churchorganist (swedemusic@webtv.net), October 20, 1999.

I just wanted to thank Cash.

I thought this was what we were here for. I guarantee you're not going to get much "verifiable" information. Most of us are intelligent people and can decide for ourselves what to believe and what not to believe. What we have been relying on and what we will be relying on probably right up until TSHTF is anectodatal information. Take it or leave it - but don't criticize those who dispense information. First of all, you will discourage more hesitant people to share anything for fear of ridicule. Secondly, you'll be treating them the way pollies treat GI's - "Where's the proof!!"

Of course, if you have PROOF someone is lying,then share it. Otherwise, scoff silently.

-- dakota (none@thistime.com), October 20, 1999.

Cash & Chuck,

Just because a post comes from Ramstein doesn't mean it's coming from an official .mil source. Plenty of military personnel cruise the web on one of Uncle's PCs and one of them could be a Biffy believer who decided to post some trash.

As my .mil experience taught me, .mil GI's love to play "Start A Rumor". Could be C4I's post was some junior enlisted, Poole wanna-be who knows just enough buzz-words to try and put one over. But as someone on this thread pointed out, there are a lot of holes in C4I's post.

Typical case of coming up with a good game and then over-reaching and tipping your hand.

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), October 20, 1999.

To All, To those who are intelligently concerned about Y2k, preparation for any possible catastophy is smart and any other way of thinking would be foolish. I am currently enlisted in the Army National Guard, and would like to share what I know about Y2k preparation. Rumor has it I will be spending New Years Eve With my fellow soldiers in the Armory. No intensive or special training has taken place to date. We ARE the Alert Battalion for a Major City in our area. Perhaps it is too soon to tell us about the UN takeover of the US LOL. or , perhaps there are just contingency plans in place in the event of an emergency. We train for war and we train for catastophy at home.We use convoys to move our vehicles to weekend drills and to 2 week active duty training. perhaps those of you who are "flipping out" about spotting military convoys on interstates Haven't noticed us before, or given a lot of thought until now. Your kids have, I've been waving to them for the last ten years in a humvee from one of those "mysterious convoys". All I'm saying is what Harm does it do to prepare...It's NOT a Government conspiracy...Be ready in case there are problems..But cut the Anti-government bullshit..some of us are offended !!!!

-- Calm Down(but be prepared) (()() @ aol.com), October 20, 1999.

Stay Calm:

I appreciate your dedication, professionalism, bravery, and strength, but as a voting citizen and a taxpayer I must respectfully question the difficult roles that you and your fellow soldiers have been given for the last few decades. Fighting or preparing for war with legitimate enemies--great! Alleviating the suffering of national disasters?-- BRAVO!! But...

No time for debate, but I list a few utterly useless and destructive engagements our military has embarked on: (1) the defence of post-cold war Europe; (2) the bombing of a sovereign nation (Yugoslavia) with no recourse to treaties ratified by the Senate, the War Powers Act of Congress, the Constitution, or even the protests of the United Nations; (3) the Gulf War, which could have been avoided if (a) we weren't such junkies of foreign oil and (b) we had not given Saddam the green light in July, 1990; (4) the ever-expanding list of dangerous global outposts where our combat soldiers are stationed as "peacekeepers" not fighters- -case in point, look at what happened to Somalia. Etc. Etc. And I need not mention who our commander-in-cheat is.

I think that our federal government does a lot of good...from a purely selfish perspective it feeds me and allows me to uncover the secrets of nature. That's one thing I like--uncovering secrets. I don't like the secrets made by people, though, because they are leaden with boobie traps and trouble, and usually hide something nasty, perverted, and evil. Whether you see it or not, our military/industrial complex and its cronies in the fedgov do leave behind a LOT of secrets. Could one of those secrets be the scope of disaster that it believes is likely due to the cdc??

Unfortunately, I suspect it is rapidly being tugged in a very sinister direction by God know's what--could it be pride or greed? Furthermore, it is actively demonizing all kinds of dissent who believe that it's powers should be curtailed if not at least checked. This is a very bad sign.

I think the lablel "anti-government" is also a bad sign; it is a misnomer, a blanket indictment of anyone who has a deviant opinion. I don't think it is used in malice (most of the time) but it seems to be creeping into the Newspeak of late along with words like "extremist" and "pro-gun" and "anti-abortion." Such labels serve more to obscure than enlighten. And that is the point. They are memes spread around to create fear anything outside of what Big Brother dishes out to you as "safe" and "sanitized" and "politically correct."

As the horse on Ren and Stimpy says: "Nosssir. Don' like it."

-- coprolith (coprolith@fakemail.com), October 20, 1999.

Cash,

I just spoke with my father-in-law and he said he hasn't heard anything about a military buildup in the Albany area but he's going to dig a little deeper when he gets back next week. He's got some friends who live near the airport and he's going to check with them. When I find out more I'll let you know.

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), October 23, 1999.

TECH: Thanks for the reality check. Please pass on anything he adds in the future. Anyone else with news from the Albany area?

-- Cash (cash@andcarry.com), October 24, 1999.

ChefTRD,

Where are these 1 MILLION UN troops that are suppose to be in the US of A??????

-- y2k dave (xsdaa111@hotmail.com), October 24, 1999.