What's the difference between a plunge protection team and market manipulation???

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Assuming there is such a group as the PPT, is it legal for the gov to step in to the market to influence its direction? If I where a Bearx investor I would be thinking litigation along the lines of GATA.

Is there any hard evidence of this kind of market manipulation going on?

-- Hawthorne (99@00.com), October 19, 1999

Answers

PROMIS Land

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/money2.htm

When they hear the term "money laundering," many automatically think of Miami, London, Hong Kong, or Panama City. How about Arkansas? According to what Money Laundering Bulletin calls The Greatest Story Never Told, an "archive of more than 2000 documents . . . allege that western Arkansas was a centre of international drug smuggling in the early 1980s--perhaps even the headquarters of the biggest drug trafficking operation of all time" [12]. Perhaps that is why it was in Arkansas that modifications were made to the stolen PROMIS software system to enable it to spy on banking transactions. For where there are drugs, there must be money laundering, or so one can suppose. Curiously, however, some of the same set of characters were apparently involved on all sides: in drug running, money laundering, and also in the theft and modification of the PROMIS system. (I will leave it to someone with more money, guns, and lawyers than I have to bring that part of the story to light, and will not pursue it further here.)

The PROMIS software was created by the Washington, D.C.-based software company Inslaw for a single purpose: to track people. It was initially designed for the use of federal prosecutors. Want to know who the judge was on a particular case? Ask PROMIS. Now want to know all the similar cases that same judge has heard? Ask PROMIS again. How about all the accused money launderers a particular attorney has defended? And so on. But after the Justice Department acquired the PROMIS software by "trickery, deceit, and fraud," and installed it in most of its regional offices, the system was modified and sold to foreign intelligence organizations, then modified again and sold to banks.

snip

But there was more to these sales than the simple desire of the cronies of Ed Meese and Hillary Clinton to make a fast buck, important as the latter motive may be. The sale was itself an intelligence operation. As former Attorney General Elliot Richardson noted, "One important motive for the theft of Enhanced PROMIS may have been to use it as a means of penetrating the intelligence and law enforcement agencies of other governments. The first step in this scheme was the sale to the foreign government of a computer into which had been inserted a microchip capable of transmitting to a U.S. surveillance system the electronic signals emitted by the computer when in use. Enhanced PROMIS has capabilities that make it ideally suited to tracking the activities of a spy network. Several INSLAW informants formerly affiliated with United States and Israeli intelligence agencies claim that both the United States and Israel have relied on 'cutout' companies to provide ongoing support for the PROMIS software" [14]. Of course, what can be done with foreign intelligence computers can also be done with banking computers, and at least one of these "cutout companies" is a major provider of banking software. [15]

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http://www.aci.net/kalliste/part15.htm

Allegations Regarding Vince Foster, the NSA, and Banking Transactions Spying, Part XV

by J. Orlin Grabbe

The world of money laundering is a difficult one. What are you going to do when your wire transfers to the Caribbean and other offshore centers won't go through? What are you going to do when one-third (as of August 8, 1995) of certain government computers are down with a virus? Or is it a worm? Or an octopus?

Did the NSA, in its zeal to modify the PROMIS software to spy on banking and other transactions, create a massive security hole in computer systems sending wire transfers?

Well, I do hear it is a nice time to go vacationing in the islands, even for day trips! Perhaps FinCEN could relocate to Havana?

[Note to Julie Franklin: Over here in Reno, we're always last to get the news. Well, I'm a taxpayer. Please put me on your list. In the future please fax all computer disconnect info to 702-829-0852. Thanks.]

Which brings us to the subject of Ed Meese. At the end of Reagan's second term as governor of California, Meese needed a new job. He worked at Rohr Industries for a while. But it didn't suit him, so Richard Mellon Scaife set up the San Diego Center for Criminal Justice on condition that Ed Meese be its Director, a post Meese held 1977- 1980.

Later, after Ed Meese became Attorney General of the U.S. and the the people-tracking PROMIS software was stolen by the U.S. Justice Department using (according to a federal bankruptcy judge) "trickery, deceit, and fraud", Ed Meese's friend Earl Brian--then owner of Financial News Network, UPI, and Hadron corporation--proceeded to market the software all over the world, as well as to U.S. intelligence and law enforcement agencies.

One agency that acquired the software was FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which proceeded to create a data base of political dissidents to be rounded up in event of a national emergency. (Like any information, once collected it found multiple uses.) This data base was called MAINCORE, and the FEMA MAINCORE system was operated out of the basement of a building in Culpeper, VA.

Journalist Danny Casolaro, with the help of Alan Standorf, was able to get printouts of this totalitarian application of the PROMIS software just prior to his demise. (When a member of congress attempted to question Oliver North about the FEMA MAINCORE data base, he was rudely shouted down by the chairman of the investigative committee.)

Another agency that put the software to use was the Wackenhut Corporation. It used the enhanced PROMIS to keep track of critics of the nuclear industry, an area in which Richard Mellon Scaife has a vested financial interest.

Now Mellon bank in Pittsburgh finds itself embroiled in very serious money laundering charges.

Do these facts explain why the Little-Rock connection to the theft and modification of the PROMIS software for the purpose of spying on banking transactions is a subject carefully avoided in Scaife- sponsored political advertisements?

Is this why the Mena-drug-smuggling, Little-Rock-money-laundering operation allegedly stops with Bill Clinton?

Is this why the connection of Vince Foster both to bank spying and nuclear espionage has been carefully downplayed?

Do Scaife's investments in the "terrorism industry" have anything to do with recent media hyping of the imminent threat to the U.S. of "international" terrorism?

Scaife's exposing of the sins of the Democrats has certainly served a useful purpose. But don't think the story stops with Bill Clinton.

Perhaps the reason that Mr. Kenneth Starr's independent investigation into the Whitewater affair has gone so slowly is that Mr. Starr, in order to nail Bill Clinton, has to also nail a number of high-ranking Republicans?

---------------

http://www.hotwired.com/collections/hacking_warez/1.01_inslaw1.html

http://www.federal.com/back/mar31-97index.html

-- Heavy Stuff (spooked@silly.com), October 19, 1999.


"What's the difference between a plunge protection team and market manipulation???"

Zilch.

"Is there any hard evidence of this kind of market manipulation going on?"

plunge protection team

-- @ (@@@.@), October 19, 1999.


Hawthorne,

Chalk Monday's actions up to what we call a "short-covering" rally. The boy's who helped short that market down 600+ points got a little nervous when Europe didn't follow through and short also...therefore, when the market pauses, (in other words, very few had the guts to continue shorting and longterm holders weren't spooked to sell) you'll get the short-traders deciding that it's time to take profits and run. In order to do that, they have to "buy" product to fulfill their short (sell) orders. They take their money and walk away to test which way the wind will blow. My guess is that by the last half hour most of the short-traders wanted to take off their shorts and get out. I wouldn't have wanted to be short the market in front of a CPI due out, when I've already got profits to take. Take 'em while you can get em is always a good strategy. I saw no indications of any sinister manipulation in the markets, though I'm sure the Fed was standing by just in case. SO the main action was done by 2 groups...

1. the Shorts doing their covering 2. Folks with long positions needing to cover some margins by selling instead of anteeing up more money to retain those positions.

Monday was not unlike many other hectic days in any market after a tumultous previous week.

-- Dick Moody (dickmoody@yahoo.com), October 19, 1999.


Hawthorne,

If you take a look at the chart you'll notice that everytime the market went below 10,000 it immediately went right up, and it never went more than 20 points below this level. On the upside of 10,000 the changes vary by as much as 120 points. To me this is obvious manipulation to avoid letting the market fall below 10,000. I have also heard that the banks today were buying large portions of their own stocks in fear that if the market slipped too far this would inevitably cause runs on cash.





-- @ (@@@.@), October 19, 1999.

I agree with you Dick...

Any response to our tete-a tete yesterday re Au?

-- Andy (AUVENGER@cs.com), October 19, 1999.



It all depends on your "station" in life.

Horses sweat, men perspire, women "glow."

Governments prepare, people panic.

Governments stockpile or "set aside reserves", people hoard.

...

-- A (A@AisA.com), October 19, 1999.


A,

Government calls it "plunge protection", I call it "manipulation".

(plunge protection team?... wonder if they fix clogged toilets too!)

-- @ (@@@.@), October 19, 1999.


If the plunge protection works and everything turns out hunky dory, what is the problem? Inflation is low, economy is good. Isn't this better than a stock market crash? BTW...The S&P futures are way up this morning.

Please don't rip me a new ass for this question. It's a question.

-- (RoseColored@glasses.com), October 19, 1999.


Rose, it's called cycles. Market cycles, economic cycles, etc.

When you have an artificial manipulation on a natural cycle, tell me what you think might happen?

If you are honest about this, you will come up with the correct answer.

Oh, and for you pseudo-economists out there, using normal market analysis on an abnormally 'manipulated market' doesn't work, FYI...but go ahead and spend all the time you want analizing and concluding. It's your time that is wasted, not mine.

-- OR (orwelliator@biosys.net), October 19, 1999.


J.P. Morgan----up

7+ yesterday says it all!!!

-- D.B. (dciinc@aol.com), October 19, 1999.



About INSLAW and Big Brother tracking software...it's probably NOT Y2K compliant, and with the original developer defunct, it can not be made compliant. The alleged theft took place in the Y2K clueless '80's...in 73 days, that trap door becomes worthless. Y2K will at least do some good.

Does anyone know where I can get PGP Phone (sp?)???



-- K. Stevens (kstevens@ It's ALL going away in January.com), October 19, 1999.


>> If the plunge protection works and everything turns out hunky dory, what is the problem? <<

In a market, there are always both sides to consider. There are buyers and there are sellers. If the government is intervening in the favor of just one side, then the other side is getting the shaft.

For example, imagine you have studied the market and concluded that a company listed on the DJIA is overvalued and the price of its stock is very likely to come down. You take a short position on the stock, looking to profit from your knowledge.

Sure enough, the stock price goes down the next day. However, the PPT, seeing the DJIA go down, decides to bolster the average by buying the stock you shorted. It goes back up. Not only that, the market sees that the government is buying and it sparks a rally in your stock. After all, if the game is rigged, why not get on the "right" side of the manipulation? The stock price goes far above the strike price and you lose a LOT of money.

If this happened to you, would everything be hunky-dory? Or would it be a problem for you?

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), October 19, 1999.


"If the plunge protection works and everything turns out hunky dory, what is the problem?"

That's cute - lol!

Then why don't we just print up billions of dollars and hand them out to everyone... everything will be hunky dory right?

-- @ (@@@.@), October 19, 1999.


Without referrencing the Stock Market, or if that's too hard, without referencing the DOW 30, please tell me why you think that the economy is in great shape?????

Night train

-- Jes an ol unemployed footballer lookin fer the light of a job (nighttr@in.lane), October 19, 1999.


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