Every once in a while I like to start this thread up in various forums to see what kind of response it gets.

Has anyone else noticed that people in general are more stupid than ever before? I feel really bad about this, but I actually feel mentally superior to at least 99% of the population of the planet. Im not talking about being "book smart", or having multiple MBA's. Im talking about GOOD OLD COMMON F*CKING SENSE! I know plenty of people that could blow my mind with Medical skills or mathematics, yet they can't grasp the idea of looking behind their car before they put it in reverse and back up.

Here we have a perfect example. In another thread, someone told us a story about some IT professionals that created a phony website with all kinds of false Y2K related information. The goal of this site was to feed us "GI" people a bunch of bullsh*t, to see if we would bite, apparently some of us did, because the poster found these guys standing around in a cubicle laughing at the Timebomb 2000 forum.

I wonder.....what has happened to the world, when people like us do a PERFECTLY LOGICAL THING like prepare for UNCERTAINTY, and we are made to be fools by 99% of the population? When did this change occur? When did someone decide that questioning what we are told is "wrong". When did we stop being explorers? Why do I have to feel like Im under the gun here, in a lose/lose situation? If I prepare, Im a goddamn criminal, a radical, and a target for the people who didn't prepare. If I don't prepare, I face the possibility of exposing my family to who knows what. If I have to shoot some prick who tries to break into my house and harm my family, and/or steal my supplies, I have to worry about being labeled a "extremist" and face JAIL or worse. Im starting to wonder what the point is of anything anymore. Its VERY clear to me that our world is screwed. People are stupid, and there is no light at the end of this tunnel. We might get past Y2K without TEOTWAWKI, but I don't think we will get much further.

I realize this sounds terribly grim, but what else can I think? I can sit here ALL DAY and write a list of problems and solutions that would completely escape most people. Im sure many of the other people in this forum could do the same. NOBODY CARES though. If it doesn't make people money, then it's not important.

I watched this lame old movie the other night called "THEY LIVE". It's a cornball story about how an alien race has integrated itself into our world, and are disguised as everyday average people. The main character of this movie gets his hands on some "sunglasses" that allow him to see through the aliens "disguises" and see many other things as well. When he first walked into the street with these newly found glasses on, they worked as a filter, and allowed him to see hidden propaganda EVERYWHERE. A billboard sign that advertised some product might have a hidden message in it that said "CONSUME" or "CONFORM". Books and magazines were filled with messages like "STAY ASLEEP" or "NO FREE THOUGHT". Literally EVERYTHING had these "messages" on them. The one that struck me the most was when he put the sunglasses on and looked at MONEY. The bills he was holding in his hand said "THIS IS YOUR GOD". That struck home so hard I couldn't believe it. I mean yeah, I known for a long time that "consumerism" in its current state is the root of most of our problems, but the imagery this movie used just slammed me like a ton of bricks.

Lame as that movie was, I watched it because I was too tired to read, but having trouble sleeping. It really had a good message and some comedy value because of the cheesy acting. It sort of reminded me of the message behind the newer movie "THE MATRIX". Basically saying "WAKE UP and SMELL THE WORLD"!!

So, the question is this:

Do I actually attempt to change the world, or do I just give it up, and try to enjoy the time we have left? At this point I feel confident that we are quite screwed.

-- Cory Hill (coryh@strategic-services.net), October 18, 1999

Answers

Not everyone could prepare. Each nation seems to have its 2% of prepared citizens. You've made yourself a part of that 2% and yet at the same time consider yourself one of the herd under the controlling propaganda designed to handle the 98%.

-- Paula (chowbabe@pacbell.net), October 18, 1999.

Yeah, 'They Live' was an amazing flick, even for a B-movie starring Rowdy Rodney Piper. "Unveiling of the Method," as Michael Hoffman himself terms it on his website. I liked the little speakers that were placed throughout the city that broadcast "sleep...sleep..." Also, when Piper sees the aliens for the first time, he knows exactly what to do: KILL THEM. (Scene in a deli when he first wears the lenses: "You, you're alright--you, you're F****G ugly!" The penultimate scene, when the news anchor is revealed to the world as a monstrous alien, is a classic. Like its splashier cousin The Matrix, They Live suggests that there is a reality just beneath the surface of our 'world' that is at once occult (hidden) and all-powerful. Movies like this remain subversive in a Managed Society, for they suggest that all is not as it seems. Christian saints and mystics have been saying the same thing for, um, 2,000 years, and the 'world' has been doing its level best to deride that message.

-- Spidey (in@jam.Hoffmanlenses), October 18, 1999.

They are not stupid. They are just part of a different culture.

Celebrate Divesity! Haven't you been re-educated yet?

-- Anonymous999 (Anonymous999@Anonymous999.xxx), October 18, 1999.

Divesity

Make that Diversity!

War is Peace.

-- Anonymous999 (Anonymous999@Anonymous999.xxx), October 18, 1999.

Yeah, but how do you escape it? Im not just talking about Y2K here. Im talking about EVERYTHING. How do I escape all of the STUPID people I have to deal with everyday? If I try to get people to think a little more about things, they think im crazy. This is very frustrating for me because Im at a point in my life that I feel like i should be "doing something". As I said before It's quite an overwhelming feeling, but im not sure if it's even worth pursuit. It has a lot to do with the fact that for the first time in my life Im trying to discover some "spirituality" in my life. So far the one I connect with best is "new age" type thought, particulary theories that have science embedded within them.

I have found an increased need for absorbing information. Books, magazines, discover channel, Learning channel, History channel. I stopped watching regular TV about 4 years ago (im now 28), and right after I stopped was when I found this THIRST for learning MORE and MORE. I still watch TV, because I love Movies (escapism I suppose), and I love the educational channels. Regular network TV should be insulting to anyone with half a brain. Im not a "loser", I do have a life. I love to go dancing, work on my sports car, race my jetski, camping, blah blah blah...

KILL YOUR TELEVISION and your brain will wake up in ways that will amaze you.

-- Cory Hill (coryh@strategic-services.net), October 18, 1999.

My 2 cents to your question: "Do I actually attempt to change the world, or do I just give it up, and try to enjoy the time we have left?"

I think that when we do what we feel is right for ourselves and our family, keeping our morality, integrity and honesty intact that we do "change the world" by our example - by changing our own corner of the world. If others choose to ignore your example then you will at least know that you yourself are doing the right thing and you should be able to enjoy the "time you have left". Always make yourself available though - people do change their minds. And don't make them "eat crow", this will make them hesitant to change their minds regarding other issues in the future.

I have a relative who is a drug addict. I can shout wisdom and/or profanity at them until I am blue in the face but they will not change until they decide they *want* to. So the best I can do is be a good example, be there if someone needs me, and go on enjoying my life.

Hang in there Cory, there are many of us who are facing ridicule just because we see nothing wrong in preparing for something that has an unknown outcome. You aren't in this alone. And regardless of what the issue is, there will always be people who think they elevate themselves to a higher position by stepping on other people or putting them down. The best we can do is not become one of them.

-- Someone (someone@in-the-same-boat.com), October 18, 1999.

Cory

You have hit it on the head. People are trained from infancy through college to obey , follow, and "don't think". I have studied subjects all my like (57 now) and still continue to learn. What you are gaining besides knowledge, is wisdom. Wisdom , when acted upon, is the best of all worlds. However, the more you learn, the more isolated you will become, having fewer and fewer pionts of interest with others.

Best to you, keep it up.

Bob P

-- Bob P (rpilc99206@aol.com), October 18, 1999.

Yeah even though I make fun of it, I really did enjoy "THEY LIVE". Funny thing is, "THE MATRIX" is one of my favorite movies, so you can see that I really identify with this "WAKE UP" subject.

Imagine how many more people would WAKE UP and thirst for knowledge as I have if they could just turned the TV off in their homes. Imagine the leaps and bounds our societies would make toward fixing this world we have almost totally destroyed. Imagine how much more intelligent our children would be...

It's really amazing. I read a quote here somewhere that sounded like this "TV could have been the best educational tool ever invented...". I see that now when I watch Discovery channel or History channel. Imagine what the internet could do. Look at it already. Its basically 3D TV. I dont even know if i will allow my child to use it. If you go to metacrawler.com and search for (insert word or phrase here) you will get AT LEAST one porno link. AT LEAST. Im don't want to take away free expression on the net, but we do need to address this somehow. Im putting a proxy server on my hom network just so i can better control my childs access when she gets a bit older. She is 6 years old, and uses the computer better than most "trained" computer users I know. Scary.

-- Cory Hill (coryh@strategic-services.net), October 18, 1999.

Cory, I'll try not to get too philosophical here but first take a deep breath. Relax. There will always be "stupid people" in this world. It's what life is all about. We have created our own reality here and now we need to remember why we created what we did and what lessons need to be learned from it. And then move on. Never give up - I don't think that you're the type to do that anyway. You just sound frustrated. It's a temporary condition. Just keep doing the best you can. If it gets too frustrating talking to the "stupid people" then don't! Just live your life the best that you can and if people notice that what you're doing is the "right" thing, they will follow your example. You're only responsible for yourself.

-- (FatherRick@peace.calm), October 18, 1999.

John Carpenter kicks major toungue in cheek ass!!"they live"(while definately a poor film)has some great lines."I've come to kick ass,and chew bubble gum".And I'm all out of bubble gum"...LOL!!

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), October 18, 1999.

Oh Oh!

Hey Cory, I think your post will hit a nerve here. This is not in any way meant as an insult to you either. My point is lots of folks here feel "outside" the mainstream. Sad...and to varying degrees ANGRY... that "mainstream folk" don't "get it"...whatever "it" happens to be...Y2K, conspiracies of various types, the NWO bus coming, ect. What's worse is the "dissing" and laughing from "sheeple" the doomers will hear as time progresses...and passes into Y2K without TEOTWAWKI. Guys with guns want to feel intimidating -- not laughed at and made fun of! Especially by "sheeple" the doomers feel superior towards.

My worry, and I've said it before is that I hope a bunch of the extremist doomers here don't go "postal" if the world insults them by not ending on time. Unfortunately , can imagine them in their bunkers, having quit their jobs, mad as can be because the "powers that be" "conspired" to keep the "house of cards" from falling.....but...doom MUST be right around the corner, right? Been the same doomer mantra with a different "probable cause" since I've been alive. Used to be nuclear war, now Y2K, next year plauges, or whatever.

My concern is that the "mad" doomer in a bunker, having cut himself off from society, and incurred their laughs and jeers doesn't decide to go out with a "bang" and take some "sheeple" with them. Unfortunately, judging from lots of post...and posters...here...I think this is all to likely next year when TEOTWAWKI doesn't happen.

Hey doomers....just take yourself with you, OK? Don't murder anybody, OK?

-- Genius (codeslinger@work.now), October 18, 1999.

Well, that tells me where Duke Nukem got the line... [lol]

-- OddOne (mocklamer_1999@yahoo.com), October 18, 1999.

I thank you all for your replies. You make me feel better.

I've seen that phrase "KILL YOUR TELEVISION" around...mostly in the 80's, but I feel that it never made more sense then it does for me today. TV should be though of like DRINKING or smoking pot. Should be taken IN MODERATION, and addiction should be treated as a disease.

Yes, I am very frustrated. Stupid people may be a part of life, but my fear is that there are SO MANY stupid people alive these days, that they are going to take the rest of us with them when they destroy themselves.

-- Cory Hill (coryh@strategic-services.net), October 18, 1999.

"I feel really bad about this, but I actually feel mentally superior to at least 99% of the population of the planet."

Odd that a functional illiterate such as you could feel "superior" to anyone, but there it is the Tinfoil credo personified in one rambling, arrogant, dissertation. I especially liked your profound B-movie analogy - verrrrrrry deep. Giggle...

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), October 18, 1999.

sNoTsLiNGeR, YOu GoT iT aLL WRoNg, tHE POllIeS LiKE YoURSelf ARe GoINg tO Be tHe DaNGeR To EVeryONe eLSe WhEN YOu DOnt KNoW wHeTHeR tO LAuGh oR CrY. GOod LuCK SUcKeR. YoU HAvE BeEN FOlLoWInG A FaLSE PReMisE.

-- sNoTsLiNGeR tO ThE REScuE (aGaIn@NOOdleBraIn.mOrOn), October 18, 1999.

Cory,

I have a recommendation for you: David Abram, _The Spell of the Sensuous: Perception and Language in a More-Than-Human World_. Amazon has it in paperback.

-- silver ion (ag3@interlog.com), October 18, 1999.

Genius,

Something you fail to see here is that just because we are preparing for uncertainty, doesn't mean we are suicidal/homocidal "doomers". I have a wife, child, a great job, tons of hobbies, and love for life. I find it VERY logical to prepare myself when the possibility of harm coming to my family is presented. Years ago, this was called "responsibility".

The bottom line is... I DONT CARE WHAT HAPPENS WITH Y2K. Whether NOTHING happens, or EVERYTHING HAPPENS, I will know that I did my best to take care of my family. People like you seem to judge me based on the fact that i spent some money (this is your god)to buy some supplies. You see, money isn't my god, but it is something we need to have to live in the world we have created. What you see as waste, I see as insurance. We all pay car insurance (or should be) *JUST IN CASE* we get in a car accident, yet any other type of PROACTIVE behavior is "radical" in todays AMERICAN society.

I know you would like to think im some extremist doomer, but you are way off my friend. I have yet to have someone LOGICALLY expain to me that what I am doing is WRONG, and STUPID. You are welcome to give it a try.

-- Cory Hill (coryh@strategic-services.net), October 18, 1999.

Cory,

BTW, I do understand. Imagine what it's like to grow up in an intellectually repressive environment when you have an I.Q in the upper 5 tenths of the 99th percentile. I did. It's no fun. Even stupid jokes aren't funny because you guess the punchline...and it's so lame. You see thru stuff that totally baffles them...and wonder why they can't see it...but they couldn't answer as many questions correctly on the IQ test either....just accept it....and enjoy life.

Two thoughts. One, cull your contacts. Create your own "social network" of intelligent people. Cull out the shitheads, idiots and losers. Even if it's only on-line. Also, take solace from the fact that, assuming your skill set is marketable, people with brains will be collecting paychecks when the dummies get let go. Also, put your intellect into "pay off" areas...like becoming a GREAT lover...who is soooo good...apply that intelligence! Women love it....with a satisfied moronic smile I've never minded. Great for the ego, too! Excell!!

Second, don't spend all your time in a mental castle. Instead, learn to cultivate your "emotional intelligence"....and a loving heart. That will do wonders for your mood and attitude. Something about being loving, kind and good hearted towards others in the world....makes the intellectual differences pale in comparison, and lets you connect with those not your mental/intellectual equal....which is a good thing, since there are so many of them......AND LOTS IN LIFE THAT CAN BE ENJOYED BY LIVING....NOT JUST THINKING...EVEN WITH INTELLECTUALLY LESSER THAN YOU'S.....they can add so much to your day...AND NIGHT...if you learn to see them thru other than I.Q. defining glasses. Learn to see their value...on the many other scales besides IQ.

Also, consider this...it helps to keep you humble. There are many "scales" we all rank on. Wisdom, compassion, achievment, persuasion, contributing value, our stance before God, ect. Many areas to advance in....and many areas where those lower on the IQ scale may just be ahead of us. Take wisdom for example. Would an "exaulted one" make a "lesser one" feel inferior or would they help the "lesser one" along...maybe to a higher rung on the "wisdom scale"? Remembering there are many much more advanced than we will ever be on their scales, helps to keep you humble...and focused on helping those climb up yours...and you will find your mood and attitude changes too I've found.

Best wishes,

-- Genius (Codeslinger@work.now), October 18, 1999.

Y2K Pro

I've noticed that when people don't have an intelligent response to a reasonable post, they start making fun of grammar and spelling. I am a partner in my own company, which provides computer telephony software to customers around the world. Software that I help engineer. When I care to, I can write with the best of them.

What fault did you see in my B movie analogy? It made the point didn't it? Everyone who read it understood didn't they? So tell me smarty, what good would it have been to quote some obscure passage written in some obscure book if no one can relate to what Im saying?

Your attempt to hurt my feelings didn't work. Feel free to explore your inadequacy issues with someone else.

(giggle)

-- Cory Hill (coryh@strategic-services.net), October 18, 1999.

SnoTSLinGER DiD YOu rEAD ThE meNSA dOiTyOUrSeLF BOok oN TYiNG YouR OWn SHoEs. YoU oUghT To REad IT YoU MiGHT LEaRn SOme HUmIlItY IN tHE PrOcESS. LaCES AnD SHoes OH mY.

-- SNotSLiNgER (LeARnS@To.rEAD), October 18, 1999.

Cory,

My first thread wasn't aimed at you. I said I'll bet your post hits a nerve. I was thinking of several other post I've read from SEVERAL here who HOPE and WANT the worst come Y2K...who WANT TEOTWAWKI so society and "sheeple" can "get what's coming to them". These people who WANT the world to end...and will be HIGHLY PISSED if it doesn't... is who I addressed as "doomer...don't murder anyone, OK"...not you, Cory.

It's them, the anti-society crowd that I mock, taunt and BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! at in some of my post -- not those who just prepare for what may come...wether a flat tire, earthquake, shortage of something or whatever. Have no problem with preping. Just with hate mongers who despise society. Don't suspect the shoe fits you. Many here it DOES fit -- quite well.

Also, I'm pretty hard to label and "peg"...and money is not my God. People who know me in real life like my a lot....and have very little if anything negative to say about me....so be carefull attributing labels to me that might not fit...but I don't really care if anyone does...I and others know better.

Again, best wishes,

-- Genius (codeslinger@work.now), October 18, 1999.

Cory,

If you are preparing for Y2K, that is wrong (and probably foolish.) If you are preparing for possible disaster, and plan to maintain that level of preparation for the REST OF YOUR LIFE, then you are doing the right thing.

-- walt (walt@lcs.k12.ne.us), October 18, 1999.

Genius; I don't understand. Your two previous posts seem totally at odds with each other. On the one hand you judge and belittle, on the other you preach tolerance and kindness. Could you explain the two distinctly differnet people I seem to see in the two different posts? -m-

-- Michael Erskine (osiris@urbanna.net), October 18, 1999.

Also...

Intelligence isn't measured by grammar skills. I know I have some shortcomings in my grammar, and actually, Im preparing to take some English classes (and math) after the new year.

Im 28 years old and haven't had a day of college, and yet I have my own business and am light years above the average US income. I have 7 years of "in the field" computer, network, and telecommunications skills. I can expand my knowledge to include better English skills. What will you do overcome your "asshole" attitude?

Get over yourself.

-- Cory Hill (coryh@strategic-services.net), October 18, 1999.

Some of you are going to be ready for this (I'm pretty sure Cory is), so I'm going to post it. Others will balk, and be unable to consider it. There is a a REALITY behind films like "THEY LIVE" and "The Matrix." Yes, they are fiction, but they are also fictionalization: a way to introduce the truth. You can wake up by a variety of means, but one thing these films make clear is that when you do, really, truly wake up, you see shit that makes you wish you hadn't. If you aren't wishing you hadn't (if only a little bit) you are still dozing, but aware that something weird is going on in the room while you're trying to sleep, which is a start. Anyway, here's some material that will help you wake up and stay awake.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0952614766/qid=940270266/sr=1-1 /002-8882022-2569012

http://reptoids.com/

davidicke.com

If you're the average human and you have no objective referent for this material, and you read it, and it doesn't appear completely stupid, there's something wrong with you. Yes, it appears completely stupid, but if you stick with it, it will inform your world view, and you'll be able to get confirmation of the truth of it in short order.

-- Dr. Polymorph (Iknowmore@thanyoudo.com), October 18, 1999.

"If you are preparing for Y2K, that is wrong (and probably foolish.) If you are preparing for possible disaster, and plan to maintain that level of preparation for the REST OF YOUR LIFE, then you are doing the right thing."

Excuse me, sir, but I believe Y2K is a "possible disaster". In fact, driving down the road in my car is a "possible disaster" and I prepare for that by wearing my seatbelt. The statement you made makes no sense whatsoever, unless Im missing something. Feel free to expand on your thought.

-- Cory Hill (coryh@strategic-services.net), October 18, 1999.

Cory--my take. The Matrix presented an inverse of God's reality: the material world IS passing, and false, but was not created by malevolent computers. It was created by an all-loving God. The 'change agent' sent by God to 'wake up' mankind was not Neo, but Jesus. The keys to unraveling the world-matrix are not meeting 'Morpheus,' but prayer and faith. The core of Truth is what tugs at your mind when you see The Matrix: the world of man is an illusion, the world of money, and ambition, and pride, and technology. Denying the Self is the path to holiness: the people who seem to bother you so mightily are simply sucked into the worldly matrix, and may, in some cases, be lost forever. Christ is the Key, which is why 'the world' attacks his message. The lie of materialism is foisted on us by Satan himself. Believe it or not, wake up or not: your choice.

-- Spidey (in@jam.teatro), October 18, 1999.

Cory,

I think all of us have tried and done our best to prepare for y2k.It has not only been a drain on our monetary resources but our energy and emotions.

I had also watched a short movie last,it was(don't laugh) about a duckling that was unique and was made fun of by the other ducklings and even his own father.His mother told the young duck to always follow his heart and be true to himself. May we all stay true to our own path and realize that we have hidden strength that will be there for us when we need it.

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), October 18, 1999.

Gawd----I thought it was just me!!!

Mr. Hill,

Affirmative on the idiocy meter, it gets worse as you age.

You cannot get away from it!!! When you're driving---there they are---idiot drivers.

When you watch TV--idiot TV shows---idiot jokes!

When you listen to the radio----idiot DJs-----yuk,yuk,yuk

When you talk with neighbors----"" ""---hows that grass lookin!! When you look at politics!!!!

When you look at business---??

When you look at inner cities!!

When you look at religions!!

When you look at Jesse Ventura?? oops

When you are in the grocery store, dept.store, Emmit Fox--a noted spititualist from back in the 30s. says it goes this way through generations until there is a cleansing.

Got Soap!!

-- David Butts (dciinc@aol.com), October 18, 1999.

"They Live",...from John Carpenter,...an amazing film.

CONSUME!

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), October 18, 1999.

Poor Ol' Cory:

Seems like I hit a little nerve. Don't forget it was you who arrogantly testified:

"I feel really bad about this, but I actually feel mentally superior to at least 99% of the population of the planet."

An hilarious admission, especially regarding your witless, bumbling efforts to explain yourself later. It also appears that you have a little inferiority complex regarding your lack of education. Relax, don't take yourself so seriously and just keep repeating: "I think I'm smart but I'm not, I think I'm smart, but I'm not..." "People who want to survive Y2K should be prepared to kill."

(its@coming.soon), July 27, 1999.

"So, of course I want to see y2k bring down the system, all over the world. I have hoped for this all of my adult life." -- Gary North

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), October 18, 1999.

Spidey,

You would like to see people find GOD, am I right? Well, what I see my part is, helping people clear their minds of the clutter they call life today. You can't expect people to consider abstract ideas like GOD, when they are glued to the TV, and/or thinking about how they can make enough money to buy the next creature-comfort on their list.

The way i see it: Somewhere back in time, people lost faith in god, and sent explorers (scientists) out to explore and document the mysterious world around them. This was a huge task, so instead of just sitting around waiting for the "answers", people decided to occupy their time by trying to make their lives easier and more comfortable. Money was throw in there at some point, and weve been stuck in that "making ourselves more comfortable" train of thought ever since. It's to a point now where money and material goods are our "GOD". We consume most of our day at work so we can purchase these things, and when we aren't working we are thinking about working, shopping, or having products and services shoved down our throats on the good old TV set.

You wouldn't believe how many commercials are ENGINEERED to psychologically impact you as best as they can. Im sure just about everyone here has caught themselves staring into the TV screen, totally convinced that we ABSOLUTELY have to go buy THAT PRODUCT. Even more of use have been blindly purchasing items that we later find we don't need ON A REGULAR BASIS. My parents are perfect examples. They must have every kitchen appliance ever created for a "as seen on TV" show. Guess what...after that neato box arrives, and the initial "coolness" of this new appliance loses its excitement, it goes in the cupboard, never to be seen again.

This is part of what helped start my "wake up call". I watched my parents waste thousands of dollars on these comfort items, trying to make up for something that is missing in their lives. They are still buying today.

-- Cory Hill (coryh@strategic-services.net), October 18, 1999.

Are you sure you weren't doing lines when you wrote this? Sounds a bit meanspirited to me and really uncool. Sorry. I respect you and like a lot of your posts, but this is really lousy.

I have a feeling that lots of us humans are ignoring things, but I do no feel superior. I just sympathize. In the Information Age, we live in a constant deluge of data and facts--as well as LIES.

1990s-style information overload is, I think, a bit disconcerting and completely unprecedented in human history. It is very easy to feel insecure, lost, alienated when physical geography matters less and less and abstract "info-geography" frames our very perception of reality.

So naturally, what's a busy person to do in a place like this? They're going to believe that they are safe because it is simply NOT NATURAL to be perpetually anxious about phantom info-predators which always lurk nearby but rarely pounce. They latch onto conditions and perceptions which make them feel safe and where they can ignore those "phantoms."

I, myself, cannot. Not because I am particularly gifted, but because I am cursed. I have a hard time "blocking things out" and ignoring stuff. My brain does not have a very good "filter" between the inside and outside worlds, rendering a heightened state of chronic anxiety. In a nutshell, I am a spaz. Luckily I have adapted well and make it through life okay, so far with moderate success. I can hide this nervousness very very well, in most situations. But there is never ever a place where I will feel safe and comfortable (except my fiancee of course), only places where I feel LESS in danger and LESS antsy.

Yeah I notice TONS of stuff--too much stuff--most of it utterly useless. However in this world of chaos and clutter I also strive to see only what is Most Important. Y2K and its ripple effects...now that's important. Don't ask me how I know...I just know.

My advice to you: show a little sympathy for the so-called "sheeple" because they are only doing what helps them survive in their habitat. Unfortunately there aren't many of us who can comprehend that this habitat's environment can (and will) change drastically rather soon; it's not a question of intelligence, only intuition and faith (or lack thereof) in the system. Don't blame them, don't feel superior. If you are kind, people will look to you for guidance and leadership.

-- cantsay (regularposter@cannotsay.com), October 18, 1999.

Y2K pro,

Oh teach me, great professor!

I say again... ITELLIGENCE IS NOT MEASURED IN GRAMMAR SKILLS.

I have some very complex thoughts that I cannot articulate the way I would like to because I do have some shortcomings in my writing skills. You would suggest that I just sit here and be quiet instead of sharing as much as I can about my thoughts, and contributing to the greater good. Where is the logic in that? A person like you would prefer to hide in the shadows for fear of rejection. I dont care what you think of my grammar, I will continue to march forward without your approval. I have a feeling that even If I had perfect writing skills, you would still have found something to complain about. Thats what your type does when they are faced with something they cant or dont want to understand.

Thanks again for your input. You inspire me to ace my English classes, you bitter little fellow you :)

-- Cory Hill (coryh@strategic-services.net), October 18, 1999.

Y2K Pro-stitute

Why do you continue to attempt to belittle Cory? If the man feels superior, then let him and the genius do so. Besides, they cant possibly be the smartest....

Cause I know that I'm the one!!

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan@Yahoo.com), October 18, 1999.

cantasy,

I thank you for your input. I totally understand what you are saying, and maybe my current problem is that Im new to this whole "waking up" thing. I'm not even sure of what it is I'm waking from. I am only now starting to explore my mind on this matter, and as Y2Kpro has been pointing out with his insults, I haven't developed all of the communications skills I will need to paint an accurate picture of my thoughts for those who would "listen". I'm sorry If I sound a little hostile at this point, but this is going to take some getting used to, and right now Im experiencing an overload of my own. Im at the point where most people are just driving me nuts. Soon I hope I will be able to overcome this feeling as you have. For now I can only express my feelings as I am experiencing them. Right now that feeling is frustration.

-- Cory Hill (coryh@strategic-services.net), October 18, 1999.

This thread started with my thoughts on how common sense has mostly disappeared from the planet. I only feel superior in that MY COMMON SENSE IS STILL INTACT for the most part. I don't claim to be some sort of genius as Y2Kpro has. I don't feel superior to everyone in the world, but rather feel like Im part of the lucky few that can still think for themselves.

I hope that clears up my superiority complex for you.

-- Cory Hill (coryh@strategic-services.net), October 18, 1999.

"There's nothing less common than sense." - Robert Heinlein

-- no (no@no.no), October 18, 1999.

Cory,

In all seriousness, I think I understand where you're coming from. For the most part, the greater majority of the people of the world are something that a famous author once refered to as 'breeders'. He likened the 'great unwashed hordes of humanity' to that of a simple barnyard animal. For the most part, I agree with him. There are very few instance in which I look at history, both ancient and otherwise, (modern in particular) and do not feel that for the most part, humans suck. We are mean, petty, jealous things that would steal the bottle from a newborn if hungry and given have a chance. If we are made in the image of the Creator, then I just want to know where did we go wrong? I realize (and will be susequently flamed for ) that we as people are capable of decentcy, goodness, and virtue, but unfortunately, it seems that the majority of humanity prefer the 'easy way' rather than tough it out and be good people.

Maybe t5he ancient philisophical question is a decent one to ask "Is Man a creature born of good, with the proclivity for doing evil? Or is it that Man is evil, with the ability to do good?" Answer that and I suppose the rest would be cake!

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan@Yahoo.com), October 18, 1999.

"do not feel that for the most part, humans suck." Meant to say "DO feel that for the most part".... dump the 'not' and it makes sense....DUH!

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan@Yahoo.com), October 18, 1999.

Y2k Dimwit Pro:

Don't make fun of Cory. You haven't added shit to this forum. Your ridicule of Cory is funny indeed. Wake me up when you've got something besides that brown stuff you pick out of your anus to post.

-- haha (haha@haha.com), October 18, 1999.

Cory: yep, materialism doesn't hack it, although the chocolate chip cookies were good. (So long, and thanks for all the fish). Trust me, I'm no saint, but the process of becoming disenchanted with the world, while trying at times, can lead to spiritual peace. I have not taken a vow of poverty, but have learned well the lesson that material baubles bring only an ephemeral happiness (about six hours, depending on price tag). I see virtually every component of our modern 'culture' as proclaiming a sort of anti-Truth, and I see the desensitization of 'consumer man' as being, well, inhuman. Man was not born to sit out his life in a cubicle, chained to a cathode tube; he was meant to have life, and have it in abundance: lived in love, with love, as part of a vital human community. Our current 'techno culture' is mendacious, and hollow. Blah blah. But do check out "Four Arguments For The Elimination of Television" by Jerry Mander, and also his book "In the Absence of the Sacred." TV is a propaganda tool, nothing more.

-- Spidey (in@jam.traffic), October 18, 1999.

"I say again... ITELLIGENCE IS NOT MEASURED IN GRAMMAR SKILLS."

Who said comedy was dead?

"I have some very complex thoughts that I cannot articulate the way I would like to because I do have some shortcomings in my writing skills."

Your shortcomings are not in your writing skills, they are in your thinking skills. You seem incapable of excreting even the most rudimentary of cogent thoughts, yet you proclaim "I actually feel mentally superior to at least 99% of the population of the planet"

'Tis to laugh. Arrogant, dimwitted fart-catchers like yourself always seem to hang around the Tinfoil camp, proclaiming their superiority over the "sheeple" and those who will not subscribe to your peculiar Religion of Doom. Don't embarrass yourself any longer, put your grade eight ruminations in a sock and stuff it

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), October 18, 1999.

Cory,

You are one arrogant SOB. There are nine (or more) types of intelligence, of which only two are measured here in the US (logical and linear). Your post makes it quite apparent that you do not possess social intelligence because of the fact you alienated so many posters.

Perhaps you might take your self described intelligence, as measured in the US, and learn a bit more about the capabilities of the brain. You might find that you are actually, on balance, are quite "stupid" to others who possess far more of the other types of intelligence of which you appear quite ignorant. You appear quite "stupid" in social intelligence to me, for instance.

Blessings and peace to you anyway, "stupid" or self described and arrogant intellect.

Leslie, MSW, MRA, CRC/R

-- Leslie (***@***.net), October 18, 1999.

Cory, my girlfriend has an IQ around room temperature - Celsius. I consistently test between 139 and 152.

She mentioned to me a fwe weeks ago "I don't understand why you get pissed off every time somebody does something stupid. I mean, 95% of the people you will encounter are going to be stupid; when they do stupid things, you shouldn't be the least surprised."

She has a point.

-- Hillbilly (Hillbilly@possum.creek), October 18, 1999.

Cory, This is my first post ever on this site.(Been lurking a few weeks). I totally identify with your observations."They Live" was and is a favorite for its message. I read a great classic book a few years ago entitled, Extraordinary Popular Delusions: and The Madness of Crowds. Written by Charles Mackay(sp?) in 1830's or so, it is a compilation of observations on financial, "scientific", religious, and social manias of past centuries. Witch hunts, financial "bubble markets", Alchemy, the Crusades, catch phrases that become popular in cities(ex. akin to the "not" of Wayne's World fame), are just some of the topics addressed by the author. The conclusion of the whole matter is that there is nothing new under the sun.(Ecclesiastes). People have followed fads and manias since man has existed. I've expressed more than once to my son that Alchemy(the "science" that claimed there was a way to transmute baser metals into gold by way of heating, freezing, combining things, etc.)is akin to current "science" regarding both "the Big Bang" and evolutionary development of animals. Imagine how hard he and I laughed as we studied his 5th grade Math rules one night: no matter how many times zeroes are added or multiplied, the sum or product will ALWAYS be zero. We laughed when I reminded him that there is an ENTIRE FIELD of "science" that believes everything came from an explosion of nothingness that was tightly compacted nowhere. Once this explosion occurred, our universe was formed, and continued to evolve and expand.Just think: a MATHEMATICAL proof exists that debunks the BIG BANG theory, and it is IGNORED. It takes more faith to believe in "scientific" theory than to simply admit a CREATOR HAD to be involved!I realize this may be abit off topic; I simply cite it as a way of relating to your frustrations. I also wanted to mention what I've found helpful in dealing with this very common and frustrating part of our human experience. I read a chapter of Proverbs to match a given calendar month date(31 Chapters in Proverbs). I find one verse that either fits the current theme in my life, or one I want to see examples of as I go about living. What came to mind with your post is one I will hide in my heart for taday--Proverbs 3:7a"Be(come) not wise in thine own eyes..." I direct this towards me, not you.I have found that at points in life, what gripes me and causes me frustrations, becomes, in a very subtle way, the focus of my attention. As I continue to focus on how foolish others appeared, I would find myself in months doing the very thing I couldn't tolerate in others. I learned and re-learn that What I Look at I become.

Also, I derive comfort in gaining increasing "understanding" about people and Life. Once was taught that Knowledge answers the question, What do I believe?; Wisdom answers the question,"How do I apply this Knowledge?";and Understanding answers the question,"Why is this so?" It is Understanding that may well soothe your frustrations soon, and enable you to utilize your very keen insights to aid those around you who are "hungry to learn", and afford you wise counsel about "fools" who cannot and will not ever learn. One Proverb says that to reason with a fool, makes you a fool (pardon rough paraphrase). I have proven this Proverb to myself, and then laughed at my humaness for having to first try reasoning with a fool, before finally reading, remembering and accepting this Proverb's Truth. There's so many Proverbs that can save you time and effort in talking to folks about anything of import. You will also find that you may develop a very deep and rich "belly-laugh". It is a laugh I've come to treasure; although I use it rarely when a very intent fool tries and explains why the Big Bang is a viable theory or some such thing, I reserve it most for myself. I have learned to laugh at my humanity and my follies. I used to take myself so seriously, that the very cosmos depended upon ME. This is very human and virtually all of us do this at some point or other in our lives. At times I derive great comfort in realizing that a wise man knows he was a fool, and can, through pride, renew his membership in that "club" at any time he so chooses. I note folly and fact as being separate from the individual writing or speaking. Fools spout wisdom and wise men can be fools.(Another way of looking at this is nobody can be perfect in being a fool or a wise man.) My conclusion: The above "discourse" is HOW I was able to avoid exitting this planet prematurely.If I had not been able to gain at least a grasp of these things, I would have either become so cold-hearted and "crusty" or or a walking, talking hypocrite...hating my own inconsistencies alittle more each day.

I hope something in this little rant helps you or someone who is reading these posts. This y2k experience has caused many folks to reexamine many things about ourselves and our relationships with others. Some of us know how shocking and hurtful it is when we realize that loved ones and close friends do not value our outlook or opinions as much as we thought. I found myself quite bitter at one point. I had nothing to gain, logic in my viewpoint, and love for an individual's well-being.The responses were laughter, to being quickly dismissed. Over time I've gained abit more understanding in how I come across, where others may be "coming from" and recollections of similar experiences in my life when others were trying to help me, which I would laugh off. Its been a soulsearching and cleansing experience for me. I would never presume that the words I've typed here are original or peculiar to me. I'm sure there's plenty of folks who have typed words very close to these in just the last few minutes somewhere else on earth. Truth and common sense are NO ONE'S possession. Everyone has handled them for varying amounts of time. I'll end by saying that I am down to this: I do not care who sings the song...just that the song gets sung. Many of us have spoken, begged, pleaded and even cried...trying to convince family or friends. I do not care if they end up preparing, but hiding it from me as a matter of their saving face.I do not care if they hear from another, and never "give me credit" for warning them. All I care is that they have more than what they have now, as the times of disruptions approach. Sorry, I ranted so long...It was therapeutic, I guess. Regards, JoeZi@aol.com

-- C.J.Zika (JoeZi@aol.com), October 18, 1999.

I sometimes get so angy at peoples ability to grasp y2k that I think maybe this pathetic race deserves teotwawki. Not to say that i want billions to die mind you...I don't. It's just that the human race has really disappionted me!

-- Orson Wells (wells@whitebulb.com), October 18, 1999.

Cory- you are right for the most part. Sheeple are not aware of their real surroundings. It is sad, I have no clue what to do for or about them.

Y2Kpro- you have it correct when you say "Who said comedy was dead?" Unfortunately, I find you and yours funny only in that I would have to cry otherwise. Say "bye-bye, my mommy is calling me now."

-- Brent James Bushardt (brentj@webt.com), October 18, 1999.

Cory:

I couldn't agree with you more!!! I think it was 2-3 weeks ago that I asked my wife how this world functions with so many idiots walking around whose only purpose is to eat, sleep, maybe f**k, and s**t. Their entire life is simply existing day to day with no purpose at all. If you ask them what their purpose in life is, their response is a well thought out....." I dunno, never thought much about it...hey, Ally McBeal's on now...you want to watch it?

Seven years ago, I "fired" all of my so-called friends and acquaintances because I finally came to the conclusion that I was a "winner" in a "losing" situation. They offerred nothing to me intellectually, spiritually, morally, physically, or emotionally ---things required for a balanced life. They sat around moaning and wetting on themselves about everything. If it was something good, they deserved it. If was something bad, it wasn't "fair" or it wasn't their "fault". Since then, I have searched for other people who have a purpose in life other than existing. I now have a beautiful wife, three incredible children, a few friends that would take a "bullet" for me, as I would them, an income that is several times my "ex-circle of friends" , a solid relationship with God, and a tremendously positive outlook for the future. It is only when I venture out daily that I come into contact with sooooo many idiots that I must stop, take a deep breath, pray for compassion, guidance, and wisdom....and find an intelligent friend to converse with for a short period of time.

The idiots are legion, and the rest of us keep them in jobs, homes, food, clothing, etc. I look forward to Heaven so I can ask God to enlighten me as to WHY ARE THERE SO MANY IDIOTS ON THE PLANET EARTH?

Keep the preps going, the powder dry, and the gold hidden.

Shepherd

-- shepherd (mjmcinnes@aol.com), October 18, 1999.

Cory said: >I actually feel mentally superior to at least 99% of the population of the planet.

That's the wonderful thing about feelings. They don't have to be grounded in reality. Everyone feels superior to the other people on the planet at one time or in one way or another. It's one of the basic tenets of human psychology.

>I wonder.....what has happened to the world, when people like us do a PERFECTLY LOGICAL THING like prepare for UNCERTAINTY, and we are made to be fools by 99% of the population?

The same thing that happens when someone posts throw-away lines like "if you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast" or "pollys gonna die soon" - the difference is, you worry about what other people are saying. Others do not.

>Why do I have to feel like Im under the gun here, in a lose/lose situation? If I prepare, Im a goddamn criminal, a radical, and a target for the people who didn't prepare.

I think this is entirely in your mind. Or you listen too much to people trying to bait you. Or you like playing the martyr. Or some mix of all three.

>If I don't prepare, I face the possibility of exposing my family to who knows what. If I have to shoot some prick who tries to break into my house and harm my family, and/or steal my supplies, I have to worry about being labeled a "extremist" and face JAIL or worse.

I think this, too, is mostly in your mind. The same rules of self- defense will apply on 01-01-00 as before.

>Im starting to wonder what the point is of anything anymore. Its VERY clear to me that our world is screwed. People are stupid, and there is no light at the end of this tunnel. We might get past Y2K without TEOTWAWKI, but I don't think we will get much further.

This is why people go live in cabins in the mountains. What is so very clear to you is not clear at all to me. In fact, I think things are better than they've ever been and everything's going to be just fine.

>NOBODY CARES though. If it doesn't make people money, then it's not important.

This is how it's been throughout history. What makes you think it ought to change now?

>I have found an increased need for absorbing information.

So who's stopping you? Last I checked, every book in my library and the local public library was Y2K compliant.

Essentially, what I hear you saying is that you're frustrated that the world hasn't gotten on your wagon. What else is new? The world isn't on my wagon, either - people are too busy getting on their own wagons and wondering why you and I are off being stupid and not getting blessed with their enlightened thinking.

Have a nice day. See you in Hell.

JZ

-- Jeff Zurschmeide (zursch@cyberhighway.net), October 18, 1999.

Well Jeff, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

You think I'm trying to get people on my Wagon? Did you read the posts here? Quite a few people are agreeing with me, so it would seem that Im not the only person riding this "wagon".

you wrote: "In fact, I think things are better than they've ever been and everything's going to be just fine."

What planet do you live on? You think the world is in better shape than ever? Have you looked at the environmental damage we have done? Have you followed political activity and seen all the people around the world we consistently piss off? Were kids running into schools with machine guns and bombs back in the 50's? Has the rate of suicide increased over the past 50 years? What about the rate of teen pregnancy? What about divorce? Crime?

I could go on all day. I don't see where you think things are better than ever....feel free to expand on that.

Leslie:

When you get done thinking about how intelligent you are socially, you should go back up and re-read my FIRST POST.

I wrote (in frustration):

"Im not talking about being "book smart", or having multiple MBA's. Im talking about GOOD OLD COMMON F*CKING SENSE! I know plenty of people that could blow my mind with Medical skills or mathematics, yet they can't grasp the idea of looking behind their car before they put it in reverse and back up. "

In another post I wrote:

"This thread started with my thoughts on how common sense has mostly disappeared from the planet. I only feel superior in that MY COMMON SENSE IS STILL INTACT for the most part. I don't claim to be some sort of genius as Y2Kpro has. I don't feel superior to everyone in the world, but rather feel like Im part of the lucky few that can still think for themselves. I hope that clears up my superiority complex for you."

I was pissed off when I made the original posting, and if you were so "socially superior", you would have realized that I was venting, and at the time I didnt care who I insulted. Someone as socially advanced as yourself should have been able to catch on to that, then using your ULTIMATE SOCIAL WISDOM, you would have chosen not to proclaim me to be "arrogant". Im amazed someone as socially stellar as yourself would even have stooped to my level and choose to insult me by calling me "stupid".

Im talking about COMMON SENSE here people. I dont care what your educational background is, or what you do for a living, or what your IQ is. Im referring to the fact that people cant grasp a COMMON SENSE concepts like PREPAREDNESS. (and believe me that is only ONE of thousands of examples)

My original post was out of complete anger, and some of you noticed that and I thank you for sympathizing with me. Others took it as an opportunity to insult me. Oh well, there is always a few. I am sorry if I upset anyone, but Im just tired of hearing everyone in this country talk about how awful things are in this day and age, and how fucked up our children are, etc, etc. Yet they are UNABLE to grasp the simple solutions that would correct some of these problems. Do people really care about the state of the US, or do they just like to hear themselves whine?

Again, I apologize for my original post if it insulted anyone. It wasnt written as well as I would have liked. I want to thank EVERYONE for posting. I learned that I am not the only one who feels this way, and I also learned that I need to work on my delivery of such thoughts. Hehe

Peace to all.

-- Cory Hill (coryh@strategic-services.net), October 18, 1999.

Wow! Interesting thread. I was out of town and am catching up. I am a card carrying member of Mensa and I make mistakes in spelling and grammer and many other mistakes. But Y2K understanding has nothing to do with intelligence. I have brought up the topic with other Mensans and they DO NOT GET IT. I couldn't believe it until I accepted the fact that Y2K understanding is not based in intelligence. What was that? 9 types of intelligence? Only if you twist the definitions of I.Q. and intelligence. Corey, try not to let the frustration get to you so much. you seem to be a good person. Thanks for your posts. Oh, good gramer indicates a level of education. being intelligent and uneducated a person could have poor grammer. Same with spelling and many other things.

-- Mr. Pinochle (pinochledd@aol.com), October 18, 1999.

Err, I don't want to be rude bub, but you might want to go and get re-tested...

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), October 18, 1999.

Step right up folks! It's amazing! TimeBomb 2000 proudly presents the world's only know case of a true, (no Francis the talking Mule here) walking, talking ass. The great-in-his-own-mind, the ass you love to hate, the widely acclaimed Y2K-Pro!

-- (thebarker@carnival.com), October 18, 1999.

Leslie has a 'Big Brain'.

-- Sheis (impressed@with.herself), October 18, 1999.

Cory,

I would answer Yes to both your suggestions. You can't ignore the conflicts in your lifetime; they are inescapably apart of your very exsistence. So you must learn to refine the creative ways in which you deal with them. It would help to focus your creativity in a smaller sphere. Also keep in mind your rewards are painfully slow compared to the sacrafices you make, yet they are enduring. Finally, can there be a stronger incentive to struggle then your love and concern for your children?

Thank you for the exchange

Rob

-- Rob Carroll (flyingred@montana.com), October 19, 1999.

Cory- Don't let some of these people get to you... Most people fall into two distinct categories, yet each of them will deny it; either they are not too bright, (simple, really), or they are educated idiots. Most of those that fancy themselves to be "intelligent" are educated right on past their intelligence. How intelligent is it to pay someone to do everything for you, get flabby in the process, and then go to a gym or hire a trainer, and endure enormous amounts of pain trying to get back into shape, while producing absolutely nothing? Real bright... The simple people are simple for a reason, read Romans 11. I have more trouble with the educated to the point of "tunnel vision" than I do with the simple. I've said for years, that I like persons, one on one, but I hate people, (the herd mentality). Yes I'm one of those ones that went to the boonies to build a cabin, live on a farm, wife, kids and lots of animals. I hate having to go to town every day for work, but I don't think that will be much longer the case. Of many posters to this thread, it sounds like they should get out of the cities, with or without y2k, just for the sake of their own sanity. Keep your chin up, kid.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), October 19, 1999.

Try God. His grace is enough to fill the emptiness that ranting, preparing, fear, jet skiiing, skydiving, arguing, can't possibly fill. As long as we're empty, we're all... uh... lost.

-- really (Heworks@tryit.com), October 19, 1999.

Cory, read Daniel Quinn's "Ishmael", then come to new answers at Humpty Dumpty to join a discussion about how to live wisely in an unwise world.

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001Jey

is the url for the discussion.

As for hanging around with stupid people, that's why I like to visit this forum; lots of intelligent people on both sides of the main issue and lots of side issues raised that get me thinking and reading and thinking some more. It kinda adds balance to the TV that my family has going all the time ;-) (My family is generally smarter than me, but some don't like to exercise their brain - get enough of that elsewhere.)

-- T the C (tricia_canuck@hotmail.com), October 19, 1999.

My brother liked to watch some tv (he was a reader)but would always argue with the commercial aspect of it. He always said they were brainwashing people. My kids picked up on it and to some extent resist becoming taxpaying consumer workers of the economy.

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), October 19, 1999.

Perhaps some here might remember that most of those defined or agreed upon "stupid" people are very much loved by some very smart, compassionate and capable people who may think, as I do, that life, breath, abilities,capabilities and circumstance (access to the internet to learn about Y2K, for example) are GIFTS given to some very misguided and arrogant people flocked together convincing themselves that their ignorance and compassion deficit is agreed upon perceived superiority.

-- Leslie (***@***.net), October 19, 1999.

>Well Jeff, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Ain't it grand to live in a free country?

>You think I'm trying to get people on my Wagon? Did you read the posts here? Quite a few people are agreeing with me, so it would seem that Im not the only person riding this "wagon".

Indeed - that's what the Internet is all about - anyone with any agenda/idea can locate others with the same idea/beliefs. That's the glory and the horror of the Internet.

>"In fact, I think things are better than they've ever been and everything's going to be just fine."

>What planet do you live on?

Same one as you. I'm just a "glass half-full" kinda guy. I've heard the reports of impending collapse all my life. In the 80s, it was loony leftists proclaiming that the workers were Thiiiiis close to rising up and bringing down the Reaganite bourgeoisie ruling elites. Now it's the K-mart Republicans going on about Y2K and Bill Clinton. Yawn.

>You think the world is in better shape than ever?

Yes.

Have you looked at the environmental damage we have done?

Yes. It's better here in Oregon than it was 30 years ago, and continues to improve.

>Have you followed political activity and seen all the people around the world we consistently piss off?

No more than in previous eras.

>Were kids running into schools with machine guns and bombs back in the 50's?

Yes. Depends on which school you went to. When I was in High School (1979) there was a young lady who shot up the school across the street from her house and killed the janitor, principal, and wounded several children - when asked why she did it, she said "I don't like mondays." - another kid in my normal upper-middle-class tidy suburban neighborhood killed his whole family with an axe. The difference is we hear alllllll about it now on CNN.

>Has the rate of suicide increased over the past 50 years?

I doubt it.

>What about the rate of teen pregnancy?

Depends on your neighborhood and class. It's always been endemic among the poor.

>What about divorce?

I have to go against the predominant flow on this topic and say that while divorce is always a sad and tragic thing, it's frequently better than living in an awful marriage. Economic options for women have allowed them more choices about whether and when to marry and whether and when to call it quits. This is not in itself a bad thing.

>Crime?

The paper here says crime is down in my area. Juvenile crime down twice as much as adult crime.

>I could go on all day. I don't see where you think things are better than ever....feel free to expand on that.

Glad to - As an amateur historian, I am pleased to tell you that unlike 50-70 years ago, black people are no longer routinely lynched for being in the wrong part of town after dark, the HUAC isn't out dragging people in and grilling them on their friends' political affiliations, people actually know and object when the US government decides to bomb/invade smaller foreign nations, diseases like typhoid, malaria, smallpox, polio, and influenza are not killing thousands of Americans each year. To quote PJ O'Rourke on how things are better: "Dentistry." So, yes, overall, things are better. Lake Erie doesn't catch fire any more.

It's each generation's curse to believe that things are in horrible states of decline and that the past was some golden age of freedom, simplicity, and civility. For all the partisanship in our politics, it doesn't approach the middle of the 19th century - read about Preston Brooks beating Charles Sumner on the floor of the US Senate sometime...I don't think you'll find Christopher Dodd beating Tom DeLay with a stick anytime soon.

I think I'll get a sticker for my truck that says "Doomers never have a nice day."

JZ

-- Jeff Zurschmeide (zursch@cyberhighway.net), October 19, 1999.