Hey, you good people...are you following the thread below by Liberty on 10/09 about Clinton giving the OK for Waco? There is a poster there who sounds like a scarey government plant who's attacking my response to his/her horrific post.

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), October 11, 1999

Answers

Guy's a spook. He propagates exactly what the Administration wants the dumbed-down, spoonfed public to swallow, and soon there will be more Waco's, more dissapearances in the night, more rural "drive-by- shootings".

We have no time for arguing with the likes of that, it's over. We lost. We lost because we went to sleep behind the wheel of Liberty, and relegated control to the government to "take care of us". So we have no one to blame but ourselves. Judgement is at hand. Get your house in order.

Waco is nothing compared to what will soon happen to us at the hands of our "benevolent" government. That's not even figuring in Y2K- related disruptions.

We've been warned about these things. Warned about an ever-increasing punative government, warned about the tyrannical nature of Clinton, warned about his bastardization of every independent agency in the Federal Government, warned about the effects of selling of our National Security and Weapons secrets for campaign money, warned about our national moral character, warned about Y2K and its possible effects and warned about our lazy, slothful, self-absorbed people.

Our Founders warned us about all these things....and all we've done is re-write their history and repaint them into 1990 politically incorrect cartoons.

Almost no one listened. So we are about to reap full, all that which we have laid-up for ourselves. Judgement is at hand.

Get your house in order, and make ready for yourself and family.

This is all that is left, and I don't care if no one likes it.

Judgement is coming on America...and it's by our own hand. Shame on us.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), October 11, 1999.

Elaine.

The poster Waco that you refer to appears to be presenting an opposing viewpoint as to the events at Waco as you see them. I would have to agree with him/her, as you seem to be somewhat inflexible in your beliefs. If you want to start some kind of God Squad, why not move your show over to Pastor Chriss forum.

-- Truth (at@the.ready), October 11, 1999.

Trouble is, these "my federal bureaucracy, right or wrong" soldiers don't bother to rebut an argument or address evidence, which makes them trolls, IMHO. Official, government-issue trolls, maybe. But trolls nonetheless. In this case, they just shout "David Koresh was a child molester!" - and hope the charred bodies of children will just fade from our memory. Sorry, Lies. They won't.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 11, 1999.

Liberty....

Trouble is, these 'religious fanatical idealists, we're always right because God is on our side' soldiers dont bother to look at any viewpoint but their own version, IMHO. If our government is involved it must be evil and wrong, end of story. The fact that Howell and his goons shot and burned the kids is lost on them. Why, Howell was a man of the cloth, so how could he have done those things. And anyone that opposes their Godly spin on events must be a government shill. Sorry, there is another and more finite truth that will override your fantasies. BTW Liberty, are you also Elaine? You both appear to have the same fever.

-- Truth (at@the.ready), October 11, 1999.

Say, Truth

Why was the burning Davidian compound, a crime scene and evidence in a controversial federal action, completely destroyed by being bulldozed back in on itself?

Keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), October 11, 1999.

Truth (not)...I said nothing in my original or subsequent post about wanting to start a "God squad" or to impose any belief/belief system upon any other soul. My argument is that the government has no right to impose death upon dissenters...PERIOD!!! I am the one giving room for dissent, although Koresh's teachings were very different from my own belief, stupid!

And NO, I am NOT Liberty, but I greatly respect him/her and the other posters on this forum who really love their country and wish to see it once again be a safe haven for ALL people, regardless of their beliefs! Isn't it an irony that those whose beliefs differed from the Establishment line in England and Europe came to these shores to FIND THE FREEDOM TO WORSHIP AS THEY CHOSE, and that now one has to fear if they are a bit different? Our ancestors must be turning over in their graves!

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), October 11, 1999.

Truth: you don't have to be some kind of evangelical Christian to feel a sense of horror, anger, disgust and outrage at seeing the forces of the U.S. government attacking a group of innocent men, women and children with tanks, tear gas, possible automatic weapons, and murdering them all. It doesn't matter in the least what David Koresh may or may not have done; nothing excuses the storm trooper mentality that allowed the Waco massacre to occur. Those in the FBI, the BATF and the Justice Dept. responsible for this should be charged with murder because that's what it was.

-- cody (cody@y2ksurvive.com), October 11, 1999.

Well, " Truth "; where is your answer to the last question ??? Notice how these supposed truth seekers collapse and run when faced with hard evidence and/or a good question that is to the heart of the matter ? It's the liberal/politically correct/klinton lovers who turn tail and RUN , when faced with the truth they can NOT spin . "Truth" is probably a snot-nosed souphmore spouting the views of some liberal college professor. My wife, in her fifties, went to college for a degree. After a year of this liberal/hedonistic/pollitically correct teaching, she started to spout the same line. Thankfully, I turned on Rush L. on long drives and she soon saw the error of those teachings. Sorry for the rant ! Silver Eagle ... Circling !

-- Silver Eagle (silver Eagle@Rounds.com), October 11, 1999.

Hey gang,

At this point I'm beginning to suspect "Truth" of being a very clever right-wing disinformational agent, POSING as a defender of the fed govt's actions at Waco. Reason being that his bigotry-on-parade has got to be sickmaking for anyone with a shred of common decency. His hatred for religion and his thinly-vieled desire for more and bigger Wacos is the best argument for reducing dangerously out-of-control government that I've yet seen.

Maybe he is a fed shill; perhaps they've realized that all they can do now is spit venom and hope that the ensuing outrage and emotional turmoil obscures the facts. Such as: the fact that the warrant could have been served and Koresh could have been apprehended easily, without risking the lives of those children; the fact that the BATF's budget was up for review, and that an agent alerted t.v. stations so there would be sufficient publicity for their purpose; the fact that incendiary devices were used, and the CS gas pumped in with a flammable solvent; the fact that the supposed tapes of 'Davidians setting fires' is more reasonably interpreted as them making molotov cocktail/fuel bombs to defend against tanks (that had already pumped in flammable solvents and punctured tanks of gasoline and kerosene, which had saturated the foundation of the buildings); the fact that three of the four agents killed were former Clinton bodyguards during his presidential race, and that all had neat, identical bullet wounds in the backs of their heads; the fact that the evidence was tampered with, and the crime scene bulldozed shortly after these atrocities were committed... (for more, see wacomuseum.com).

Note that they haven't made arguments or rebuttals. They've essentially said "So what?" "The Government is always right" and "It's too bad some kids had to die, but KORESH took them hostage." What?! We now kill hostages? Or they say "After they killed our guys, they were all fair game - there are no rules in warfare" - and with this argument they show us precisely why the armed forces must NEVER be turned against Americans citizens on American soil, for ANY reason. And yet this is PRECISELY WHAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOW CLEARED THE WAY FOR BY AUTHORIZING THE USE OF TROOPS UNDER FEMA'S COMMAND DURING ANY EMERGENCY THEY MAY CARE TO SPRING ON US. But that isn't a problem for our fed apologists. Their mouths are watering. At long last, they see it coming: the environment in which people like THEM thrive...

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 11, 1999.

I fully agree with you, Liberty. The feds 'day of reckoning' WILL come. Sooner rather than later, I firmly believe.

"truth"-not if you are an American, I am ashamed. 'Course there are a couple million of ya's. Does the name "Tories" mean anything to ya' :)

Oh, a small pet peeve that I have is the use of a handle when talking about such subjects. I use my name here specifically to loudly proclaim what I believe in and who I am. Why is it that others, especially those who apologize for and agree with the fedgov almost always use a handle??

-- Brent James Bushardt (brentj@webt.com), October 11, 1999.

Elaine, or whoever, are you aware that it is common practice on this forum to place an 'OT:' (off topic) as the first two characters of the subject line on any thread which is related to Wakko? This keeps hard-working, time-limited folks like me out your business.

Oh well, I think that the guy you are discussing is a veteran who just does not like you wakkos putting down America.

Hey, just like yourself, I think people who do not agree with ME are scary shills. I suspect you work for that Fallwell character who was publishing the Foster tape. It, too, was filled with what you sicko nutters called irrefutable evidence. You folks are making the same arguements the Vince Foster wakkos were making before two congressional committties, two police forces, the independent council and 99% of the free world figured out it was a suicide. By the way I sympathize with your sentiments, but not your methods. I also think you and LIB are the same person. Both your posts go from long, totally organized tracks to scatalogical attacks and back to sheepish pap all in one thread. Did you get a marketing degree from Tallulah? And by-the-way, I too have at least seven internet accounts and three ISP's at my disposal. I could post under many different pseudo's, but never have. Why do you do that?

INVAR was right, the time for all this pathetic tripe is past. Prepare or die.

Sincerely,

-- Uhmm.. (jfcp81a@prodigy.com), October 11, 1999.

Uh...Yeah! You tell 'em Brent!

Still "Liberty"

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 11, 1999.

OK, Lib, I upwardly revise my opinion of you. You DO understand sarcasm!

Sincerely,

-- Uhmm.. (jfcp81a@prodigy.com), October 11, 1999.

Hey Silver Eagle and Liberty.

 I hate Bill Clinton and his entire administration  Its been so long since I was a souphmore, I forgot how to spell it  I sometimes wish I was working for the government so they would get off of my case  Im not totally defending the government actions at Waco, just putting the blame where it belongs, on Howell and his sick puppies.

And yes. Im fed-up with you assholes that wrap everything you do and believe in around the protective cloak of religion. I think most decent Americans of faith, are tired of reading over and over about some freaked-out group of religious zealots and their delusional and dangerous activities. To quote an old axiom, Let God sort it out.

-- Truth (at@the.ready), October 11, 1999.

"Truth",

I predict that, unless you get that mega-chip off of your shoulder and believe on Jesus as YOUR Savior and Lord, your vitriolic hatred and self-pride will ultimately consume you as it will consume all who persist in rejecting Him.

As for Waco et al, the Government is out of our control and will remain so until it is superceded by the One-World Government. If you think things are scary NOW, wait awhile. These are just the beginning or "birth pangs".

JJ

-- Jeremiah Jetson (laterthan@uthink.y2k), October 11, 1999.

Ya wanna know WHY all the news about Waco?

TPTB want to deeply impress on the American public, right about now, what happens to those who resist. Lies, smears, bullets, seige, fires, bulldozing, bull$#!++ing, imprisonment. Pound it in, and show no consequences, no outrage. Drive it home. That's why.

They're *gloating* as each sordid horrifying detail gets exposed. Timing is everything. WAKE UP !!!

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), October 11, 1999.

Uhmm,

Gesundheit. When you're done wiping the snot off your nose, maybe you can drop the attacks and respond with a view of Waco based on the facts. Any facts. Or refutations of the evidence we offer, as opposed to merely characterizing us as "sicko nutters." For instance, DID the BATF plan the assault for publicity purposes when their funding was up for review, when they could have easily served the warrant on Koresh in town (or when agents went shooting with him a few days before the seige)? DID Delta Force and BATF fire on innocent people as they tried to escape fires DELIBERATELY SET BY TANK CREWS, as the FLIR footage clearly shows (seen in the video "Waco, the Rules of Engagement," and as interpreted by the "sicko nutter" who INVENTED AND HOLDS THE PATENT ON THE INFRARED CAMERA SYSTEM - you imbecile)?

Put up or shut up. When you resort to name-calling without ALSO posting some kind of real argument, you are all but admitting that you HAVE NO ARGUMENT.

Btw: anyone whose been on the web more than a few weeks knows that providing your real name is an invitation to be spammed. And it encourages unsanitary contact with hostile, substanceless cranks like you.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 11, 1999.

JJ, I thought you left on the Hale-Bopp flight.

-- Truth (at@the.ready), October 11, 1999.

Ashton and Leska,

I agree.

Christ, are they going to get a suprise when they try to tighten this noose. I know the caliber of men these Clockwork Orange punks will be facing. Most of them laugh at the "militia" and are crouching at home, biding their time. There are millions, not talking or typing. Just waiting. That's not including those in the military who know and will remember their oath to the Constitution. It's going to be a real mess...

As for their slamming religion: they're just trying to bait the fervently religious among us, to draw out a post like Jerimiah's, which will discredit the topic and prove that "it's all about religion." It makes it pretty clear who the new "jews" are going to be, though, doesn't it?

For the record: God knows I have no interest in religion.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 11, 1999.

We are more interested in God than anything else, even Y2K or militias saving the country. We'll meet God before we see militia folk :-) But we try to restrain our true passion on TB2K ;^)

But Liberty and other courageous awake posters, we believe God is interested in you ... His attention is stirred by those who exercise His Gifts of alertness, mental fitness, integrity, brave adherence to noble principle.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), October 11, 1999.

A&L,

God is where I get those gifts, to the meager extent that I have them.

I said I wasn't interested much interested in religion qua religion. God assures me that's not his top priority either.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 11, 1999.

OOOH Boy!

-- Truth (at@the.ready), October 11, 1999.

More people have some sort of spiritual life than not, "Truth." The world is full of people who talk to God and get an answer, some in church (where you and your mad bombers have them all conveniently in one place) some outside of a church. Piss on it if you will. It only diplays your anguished poverty.

Poor little cage-keeper. Looking after the pigs...

Communion with the Divine is the root source of my Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 11, 1999.

Yes! Liberty OM !!!

"None can atone me, say who would injure me?
The world turns aside to make room for me
I come, O blazing Light! The shadows must flee.
Hail, O ye ocean, divide up and part!
Or parched up and scorched up, be dried up, depart!
None can atone me, say who would injure me?
Beware, O ye mountains! Stand not in my way.
Your ribs will be shattered and tattered today!
Friends and couns'lors, pray waste not your breath,
take up my orders, devour up ye death!
None can atone me, say who would injure me?
I ride on the tempest; astride on the gale
My gun is the lightning, my shots never fail.
I chase as a huntsman, I eat as I seize
the trees and the mountains, the land and the seas.
None can atone me, say who would injure me?
I hitch to my chariot the fates and the gods;
in the voice of thunder, proclaim it abroad!
Howl, O ye winds! Blow, bugles, blow free!
Liberty! Liberty! Liberty! Om! "

@}->-- 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 @}->-- 3~0 3~0 3~0

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), October 11, 1999.

Elaine,

If you don't mind I'll just enjoy INVAR, Liberty, A&L et el.

But I will add what Jim Lord said about Waco. His insights were the most logical explanation I have heard:

The ATF was going to have its budget cut. The ATF agency honchos set up Koresh for publicity and the need to keep their budget intact. That is the long and short of it. They blew it. BTW, their budget was increased because of Waco.

For a sneak preview of America's future, read Daniel 5. It is not in the text, but history records Cyrus attacking mighty Babylon at midnight by diverting the Euphrates River. It happened during the party described in Daniel 5. It reminds me an awful lot of the coming party at midnight Jan.1, 2000. We'll see.....

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), October 11, 1999.

Hey "Truth":

I want to know one thing. If the military was involved in Waco, and it has been pretty well documented now that they were, Bill Clinton would have had to give his "OK" and stamp of approval and go-ahead, then WHY DOESN'T THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR ACTIONS AND OUTCOME OF THOSE UNDER HIS AUTHORITY?

Just would like a little truth.

sdb

-- S. David Bays (SDBAYS@prodigy.net), October 11, 1999.

Lib/1sheep,

DID the BATF plan the assault for publicity purposes when their funding was up for review, when they could have easily served the warrant on Koresh in town?

[NO]

DID Delta Force and BATF fire on innocent people as they tried to escape fires DELIBERATELY SET BY TANK CREWS, as the FLIR footage clearly shows ... in the video.

[NO]

....

Actually, I too am quite gullible. After watching the Foster video, I was convinced the Presidient and First Lady were really very evil. After the investigation, I learned that most of the stuff on the video was lies, lies, and damn lies. I am a bit less likley to believe you folks the second time around. I am even more inclined to wait and see the investigation results, and I truly hope the facts will vindicate the American government.

Here is a summary of the Foster case, in case you have forgotten:

rant mode on........

The major points of these right-wing conspiracy groups are that the gun remained in Mr. Foster's hand despite the explosion, little blood was found under his body, no powder burns were found in his mouth, the left-handed Mr. Foster was found with the gun in his right hand, carpet fibers were found on his clothes (suggesting that the body was rolled up in a carpet and moved), and there was a brown car seen at the park.

[Sounds pretty foolproof, does it not? Well, here is what we later learned]

The reality is that all the investigations showed that Mr. Foster's thumb was caught between the trigger and trigger guard of the gun, the body was on a incline drawing blood away from his head, there was indeed powder residue on his palate, Mr. Foster was in fact right-handed, there were no more carpet fibers found on him than on anyone else, and there are lots of brown cars.

But it makes no difference to these right-wing yokels. The object is to show both the President and the First Lady as not only inherently evil, but murderers as well.

http://rackjite.bourg.net/20consp.htm

rant mode off..........

Why do you continually try to destroy the President and the American government? The davidians flooded their home with gasoline, locked the kids in a buried bus, set the flames, and continued to fire at FBI agents even as their house burned around them. Refute that, please, without referring to the ravings of your wakko friends, if possible. Videos will no longer convince me.

Sincerely,

-- Uhmm.. (jfcp81a@prodigy.com), October 11, 1999.

Uhmm,

The President and his government have destroyed themselves by their own words, lies and scandals...unless of course you believe that Clinton's finger-waving lying taunt at the American People and his outright lies to the Grand Jury was a Right- Wing look-alike who secretly took Clinton's place to embarrass him.

You sir are a moron and an unmitigated buffoon. Keep up the lock- step....you march beautifully.

BB,

Daniel 5 is good. Better yet, read Lamentations and let the parallels sink in. No one wants to study Lamentations, even though it is a short book. This is too bad, because it is a screaming warning to our nation today.

Judgement is coming on America folks, whether you believe it or not. All of this crap, ALL OF IT...has filled our national cup of iniquity far over...until holding back the consequences of our individual, societal and national decay can no longer be held back. We are about to reap full our sown seeds of our own destruction.

Judgement is coming...and as horrible as you imagine it might be...you'll end up wishing it was that easy. I promise you.

It is time to get your house in order.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), October 11, 1999.

Save your breath Uhmm. These are the same folks who still send money to Jim Bakker. Let them live their sorry lives in delusion...losers.

-- Just (sorry@little.sheep), October 11, 1999.

sdb,

You seem to imply that the President should take ultimate responsibility for all that happens during his term. Well, you do not know much about what happens in big companies, let alone huge governments. The guy at the top rarely understands all the evil propagated in his name. Take the Iran/Contra case, for example...

In June, 1984, at a National Security Council meeting, CIA Director Casey urged President Reagan to seek third-party aid for the Nicaraguan contras. Secretary of State Schultz warned that it would be an "impeachable offense" if the U.S. government acted as conduit for such secret funding. But that didn't stop them. That same day, Oliver North was seeking third-party aid for the contras.

* Oliver North--convicted of falsifying and destroying documents, accepting an illegal gratuity, and aiding and abeting the obstruction of Congress.

* John Poindexter, Reagan's national security advisor, --guilty of five criminal counts involving conspiracy to mislead Congress, obstructing congressional inquiries, lying to lawmakers, used "high national security" to mask deceit and wrong-doing.

* Richard Secord pleaded guilty to a felony charge of lying to Congress over Iran-Contra.

These actions resulted in the deaths of many people just south of our border. Reagan assumed 'responsibility,' but never suffered any consequences because everyone seemed to understand it was beyond the bounds of his control. Presuming for the sake of argument that Waco happenned as you believe, why should this President resign? Can you not believe there is a possiblity that what happenned at Waco was beyond Klinon's control - just as Iran/Contra was beyond the control of President Reagan? If every Presidnet resigned because something ugly happenned on his watch, we would have a commander-in-chief too afraid to act when necessary to protect us from the real baddies in the world. Is that your real goal?

Sincerely,

-- Uhmm.. (jfcp81a@prodigy.com), October 11, 1999.

INVAR, you rock!

Just, I will heed your advice. I just hope these pathetic kooks will post with an OT: tag next time. I do get so tired of this, I am far too old. Where is the legion of BOB when you need them?

Thanks,

-- Uhmm.. (jfcp81a@prodigy.com), October 11, 1999.

There you go again Uhmm.

I always find it amusing that you hardcore leftist Clintonistas need to constantly dig-up the failings of past leaders and presidents in order to absolve your king of any responsibility. You have to compare Clinton with the weaknesses of the former presidents rather than their greatness. Truly a legacy.

But just a note on the responsibility issue, the President himself signed the waiver to have allowed military forces at Waco. That's not Right-wing attempts to destroy your king, that's the LAW.

Oh, I forgot...your king is above the law. How silly of me to forget.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), October 11, 1999.

I gotta go with Uhmm and @ on this one. The problem with INVAR, Robert, Liberty, Elaine, et al is that they think Clinton is the root of all evil and that by replacing him everything will be better. They miss the forest for the trees. They can't understand that the two party system is designed to polarize the country while the PTB divvy up the wealth. They don't think the tribe>village>city-state>nation>global government progression is real, let alone understand that it is powered by forces that are poorly understood even by the participants.

-- a (a@a.a), October 11, 1999.

I feel sorry for those of you that mock God. God is not mocked; he is patient and longsuffering, He sitteth in the heaven and His hand is stretched out still to a stiffnecked and gainsaying people. He gives us a little tornado here, a little hurricane there - we don't listen. One of the early signs that judgement has come is when He gives us corrupt leaders. I can see the signs easily, are you Romans 11?

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), October 11, 1999.

Incorrect --a. Clinton is NOT the root of all evil. He is nothing more than the physical manifestation of the sum of evil we have all participated in since the 1960's (in particular).

In many ways, Clinton IS the people, as they are the ones who chose to look the other way and abide the lawlessless this President displayed to assuage their own personal peccidillos.

This is another reason I say Judgement is soon at-hand on America.

I do not think that replacing Clinton will solve the problems we face. I agree that this two party system has failed. But ridding ourselves of an obvious lawbreaker for president last year would have been a first step towards national repentance, which is a first step if we are to avoid destruction.

We face terrorist threats, and economic collapse and the vile and sloth of our own people when these spoiled brats wake-up to a harsh reality we have not known in this nation since the 30's and 40's. If we are to survive as a nation, and avert our destruction, we will need to turn to God to save us from the mess we've made for ourselves. We will need to change our hearts and humble our proud-arrogant selves before the Maker of All Nations.

We need to repent and ask for forgiveness as a nation, and root out this idiotic evil that masquerades as goodness and virtue in our culture, by cleansing our individual selves, and divorcing ourselves from participating in the crap that has torn us from the hands of God.

If we do not do this tootsweet, then the PTB that have played us for fools WILL SUCEED in fostering our annihilation, wiping two-thirds of us from the face of the Earth, and relegating the remnant to a horrific captivity to serve their global ambition.

God will allow this to happen because of our proud, arrogant, evil hearts. He will not save us from the seeds of Destruction we have all collectively sown, and soon our avowed enemies will feast on our rotting carcass and celebrate the Phoenix of a global monstosity that has risen from our ashes.

Think we can turn the culture around in a few weeks? Because that's all the time we have to avert real hardship and judgement.

I thought so.

Get your house in order.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), October 11, 1999.

Thanks INVAR. I honestly pity the 'strong, intelligent, realistic, astute, proud, dependable and alert' types who have no use for a higher power in their lives. They're about to be tested. They'd better locate a use for God VERY quickly.

*OCTOBER 1999*

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), October 12, 1999.

http://www.newaus.com.au/USReport.html

Just a bit more about what Invar said about the sum of evil, if your interested.

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), October 12, 1999.

a,

you said >They can't understand that the two party system is designed to polarize the country while the PTB divvy up the wealth.

No, I'm painfully aware of this. You are bouncing off Uhmm's attempt to to polarize the discussion along party lines by fingerpointing and saying "they did it first" in true gradeschool fashion.

>They don't think the tribe>village>city-state>nation>global government progression is real, let alone understand that it is powered by forces that are poorly understood even by the participants.

This progression is a trend, not a destiny. We could have a global government that is a democratic republic, or we could have a totalitarian socialist hive. To say that unification may occur means nothing; the difference between a free society and a prison planet is everything. Look at individuals and institutions promoting a "one world government" today: are they democratic or authoritarian? Are they for government by the people's representatives, or for central planning by unelected, anonymous "experts?" I don't know ANY anti-globalists who are stuck on geographical boundary issues. They are concerned about totalitarian government, and observe with clarity the repetition in America today of the same techniques as were used to institute it in Germany, Russia, China - namely, gun-grabbing, and the creation of ersatz "terrorist" threats to justify draconian suspension of civil liberties.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 12, 1999.

INVAR, Liberty,

Let me ask you something. You guys say that NWO wants to kill 2/3 of the worlds population and make the rest of us slaves. My question is; to what end? If these guys are *already* the wealthiest of the wealthy and *already* have enough power to topple governments and bring about genocide, what could they possible gain from enslaving the world? What more would they have that they don't already?

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), October 12, 1999.

TECH 32,

1) Slaves.

2) Peace of mind.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 12, 1999.

Wait a sec. If they are as rich and powerful as you say then don't they have slaves already? Can't they buy as many of them as they want? After all, slavery, contrary to popular belief, is actually practiced in many countries today (albiet not always in the open).

What purpose/thing would a world full of slaves provide that they just couldn't buy or steal from the rest of us today??

And peace of mind??? C'mon, get real. I bet anyone with that much money and power sleeps very well at night. America is fat, happy and unaware. Yeah, they'd sleep better if all of us were their miserable, resentful, bitter slaves instead. NOT!

Care to try again? Just three chances for a nickel...

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), October 12, 1999.

TECH 32,

It's to your credit that you don't understand the proverbial "insatiable lust for power." It doesn't make "sense." It's lust. The more you have, the more you want. Got it? It's not about having enough, or even enjoying what you have; it's about getting MORE. The more sophisticated among them are dedicated solely to the lust itself, and the medium of material gain or accomplishment per se is not valued. "Sport" and "Art" offer a parallel concepts, in the realm of normal human beings. But let's not go there...

It another planet, brother; don't try understand it with your conceptual tools - but for God's sake don't start using theirs.

All psychoanalysis aside, THEY DO WHAT THEY DO. Evil Bastards have been trying to take over the world since the dawn of time. It's a cliche! Yes, they over-reach, for reasons that are irrational and not in their best interest. This results in the alternating ascendancy of evil and virtuous influences in society, which is also proverbial. If they made sense they would stay in power; but if they made sense, they wouldn't irrationally seize their world in a deathgrip in the first place. Alexander. Hitler. Ghengis Khan. Stalin. Mao. And dozens of lesser lights, who thought nothing of killing people BY THE MILLIONS in their fussy effort to rearrange the furniture of Planet Earth and satisfy an itch they couldn't scratch. This has never stopped - show me the magical moment where such perennial desires were once and for all weeded out of the human beast and banished from our solar system. Nuremburg? Give me a break! (the CIA hired more, and more powerful, Nazis than were tried at Nuremburg) The proof is in the (blood) pudding, babe. It happened before (over and over and over), and now they are using the very same tools to make it happen again. All you have to do is read a little, and open your eyes.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 12, 1999.

Oh I get it. They are rich, powerful AND insane with lust.

You state "This results in the alternating ascendancy of evil and virtuous influences in society". Well, isn't that what I've been saying all along? That 'they' (if in fact 'they' are working together) can TRY to enslave us but that they will ultimately fail? That there have *always* been rich, powerful people with their own agendas and that they are by no means guaranteed sucess? That Americans aren't stupid and that at some point they'll rise up in protest, both armed and unarmed?

I don't underestimate the lust for power but it pales in comparison to greed because money can buy as much power as you want, no force needed. And as far as I can tell these guys can make more money keeping America *exactly* as it is now. Destroying it's economy, infrastructure and people run counter to the goals of unrestrained wealth and power (which, by the way, is already available to them today).

I *do* think it is inherent in the nature of governments to try and overstep the bounds set for them. The founding fathers knew this, and so did we before most of us decided to look the other way. But I *do not* believe that it is all the result of a few ultra-rich, ultra-powerful families trying to kill off billions of people only to enslave the survivors.

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), October 12, 1999.

Hey Liberty,

You forgot to mention the worst of these evil folks: The religious fanatics that destroyed entire societies in their lust for power and total control over humanity. Of course it was all in the name of some god or another so that makes it ok, right? You are a sick puppy boy. You and your kind are doomed to run at the mouth and gather in dark corners. Im sure that god is delighted to have you as his fervent follower, spreading your venomous bullshit where you may. Your poisoned mind is sufficient punishment. Enjoy your pathetic life; try not to take anyone else on your dark trip into the abyss.

-- Sick (of@your.crap), October 12, 1999.

TECH 32,

You asked a valid question which deserves an answer. I did not suggest that the NWO wants to kill 2/3 of the world's people.

What I said is that 2/3 of OUR people, Americans, are going to be wiped from the face of the Earth in a combination of conflict and disease/famine that follows the chaos. How this happens exactly I can only speculate, but reading the headlines as of late only makes things more ominous. What is left of our people after the chaos of Y2K, any bio or nuke attacks, will suffer horrific captivity that will make the captivity of the Ancient Hebrews look like a picnic.

What arises from our ashes would be the realization of a Global Government everyone is warning about, but they are missing the fact that the United States is not a part of that "beast". We will be ashes under their feet.

And this fate is of our own doing as a people. No one care about anything but themselves and their own agendas. This will make our destruction, all the more easier...whether it is initially by our own government we refused to reign-in, or a combination of terrorism and totalitarianism in response to the attacks.

I firmly believe Abraham Lincoln's prophetic claim that "If destruction be our lot, then it will be of our own hand".

We have wolves Mr. tech, wolves that have risen amidst us and attained the highest power in the land. We shall soon feel the bite of wrath they have set-us up for, because the American people refused to look at evil and eschew it. No, instead they have embraced it.

Our fall will be at our own evil hands, a collapsing fiat banking system, the myriad international enemies we've made, and our own ignorance, selfishness and pride. We are too divided to stand together and unite to thwart our inevitable destiny.

It is time to get your house in order.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), October 13, 1999.