Paul, I don't know whether or not you've followed the threads on my upcoming book, but I need permission for a quote. I've already received permission for a quote from Patrick Shannon, and I am in the process of obtaining permission from Peter de Jager. I will attempt to email you privately, but if that fails (received any hate mail lately? [grin]) please email me so that we may be able to exchange phone numbers and also arrange a time to talk. I want a chance to actually hear your voice before my book goes to print. A bit of background: I've been working very diligently on this upcoming book for which I have not yet been crucified. At least not totally crucified. Perhaps that has something to do with the fact that I've done a lot of research. It is entirely possible that I've killed at least two trees thusfar in printing out and "triaging" the root of this book. A "scoop" for those who may be interested, and have been following the threads on "The Toilet Paper Chronicles": Chapter One is titled: "Disconnectland: Tales from the Edge." One excerpt from that chapter includes the following: "Of all the quotes offered up by the principals in the 100 days to Y2k stories, I have two personal Disconnectland favorites. Both are from Utah Senator Robert Bennett, who commented on CNN, We're saying that with this report, the Y2K problems will not be spread across the nation. They will occur across the street. (Gee, and whose street might that be?) Bennett went on to say, If you stockpile anything for Y2K, stockpile information. Find out if your pharmacist, your banker, your employer, is Y2K compliant. It will be of small comfort to you to have the U.S. Senate say the banking system will work if you can't get your money out. (Gee, lets see if I can guess how my pharmacist, for whom English is a third language, might answer that question: Excuse me, Mr. Pharmacist, are you Y2k compliant? Pardon me? You know, Y2k compliant? Oh, will we be open on New Years Day? No. Thats a federal holiday.) For future reference, whether or not anyone reading this post wants to purchase this book, a bookmark of its temporary location is advisable. I say "temporary," because within a matter of a month or so, it may disappear from Amazon.com's "Z-shops" in favor of Amazon.com. I'm not sure if I truly want to go there, but that's a business decision I will need to make. I recommend bookmarking the site because I will have a huge "Acknowledgement" section of the book. Many of the people in this forum will be mentioned, with kindness. Whether you bookmark it or not, this book will be part of our (yep--I said "our") history on this forum. I'm practically bleeding through my ears to record it right. On some days, it's been an effort to brush my teeth. The book will be extremely funny, but it will read true. For the "Pollys," the "Doomers," and everyone in-between. Will I get it precisely right? Not a chance. However, you will never in your life meet a journalist who has tried harder than I.

The Toilet Paper Chronicles: Gallows Humor from the Y2k Underground



-- Marianne Michaels (scipublic@aol.com), October 11, 1999

Answers

(Darn the formatting! I like paragraphs. Apologies. Here I go again.)

Paul, I don't know whether or not you've followed the threads on my upcoming book, but I need permission for a quote. I've already received permission for a quote from Patrick Shannon, and I am in the process of obtaining permission from Peter de Jager. I will attempt to email you privately, but if that fails (received any hate mail lately? [grin]) please email me so that we may be able to exchange phone numbers and also arrange a time to talk. I want a chance to actually hear your voice before my book goes to print.

A bit of background: I've been working very diligently on this upcoming book for which I have not yet been crucified. At least not totally crucified. Perhaps that has something to do with the fact that I've done a lot of research. It is entirely possible that I've killed at least two trees thusfar in printing out and "triaging" the root of this book.

A "scoop" for those who may be interested, and have been following the threads on "The Toilet Paper Chronicles":

Chapter One is titled: "Disconnectland: Tales from the Edge."

One excerpt from that chapter includes the following: "Of all the quotes offered up by the principals in the 100 days to Y2k stories, I have two personal Disconnectland favorites. Both are from Utah Senator Robert Bennett, who commented on CNN, We're saying that with this report, the Y2K problems will not be spread across the nation. They will occur across the street.

(Gee, and whose street might that be?)

Bennett went on to say, If you stockpile anything for Y2K, stockpile information. Find out if your pharmacist, your banker, your employer, is Y2K compliant. It will be of small comfort to you to have the U.S. Senate say the banking system will work if you can't get your money out.

(Gee, lets see if I can guess how my pharmacist, for whom English is a third language, might answer that question:

Excuse me, Mr. Pharmacist, are you Y2k compliant?

Pardon me?

You know, Y2k compliant?

Oh, will we be open on New Years Day? No. Thats a federal holiday.)

For future reference, whether or not anyone reading this post wants to purchase this book, a bookmark of its temporary location is advisable. I say "temporary," because within a matter of a month or so, it may disappear from Amazon.com's "Z-shops" in favor of Amazon.com. I'm not sure if I truly want to go there, but that's a business decision I will need to make.

I recommend bookmarking the site because I will have a huge "Acknowledgement" section of the book. Many of the people in this forum will be mentioned, with kindness.

Whether you bookmark it or not, this book will be part of our (yep--I said "our") history on this forum.

I'm practically bleeding through my ears to record it right. On some days, it's been an effort to brush my teeth.

The book will be extremely funny, but it will read true. For the "Pollys," the "Doomers," and everyone in-between. Will I get it precisely right? Not a chance. However, you will never in your life meet a journalist who has tried harder than I.

-- Marianne Michaels (scipublic@aol.com), October 11, 1999.

The email address is real. I e-mailed you before you put up your re- formatted post. Ize still here.

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), October 11, 1999.

Got your email, Paul, and sent you one back.

And now--phone numbers? Who goes first?

-- Marianne Michaels (scipublic@aol.com), October 11, 1999.

Oh--and for the record--aren't real email addresses a wonderful thing? Sometimes?

-- Marianne Michaels (scipublic@aol.com), October 11, 1999.

Marianne,

You had a lot of, um, interesting posts on the Debunker's board using the handle "Guess Who". Really odd thing, but all those posts are now gone! Gone from the archives, too. Maybe you kept a copy of them you could share with Paul before he agrees to your request?

-- (WatchSixP@ul.com), October 11, 1999.

WatchsixP,

And you are? Name? Real email address?

-- Marianne Michaels (scipublic@aol.com), October 11, 1999.

Marianne,

Who I am is unimportant. I am not the one here asking for quotes and phone numbers. Why did your friends at the Debunking board remove all your posts? Are you going to send copies of them to Paul if he asks for them?

-- (WatchSixP@ul.com), October 11, 1999.

Marianne,

Was that your post the other day asking if it would be okay to use posters names and quotes?

If so, I think the message was loud and clear.

There are a lot of people here who do not think Y2K is a humorous situation and they do not want to be associated with this type of book. Personally I think it would be wise to wait until mid-2000 to see whether our comments are really something to laugh at.

At the very least it appears that if they did allow you to use their names many would expect to receive a small percentage of the profits from the book. I would advise you to read the thread and make sure you know what you're getting yourself into before you proceed.

permission request thread

-- @ (@@@.@), October 11, 1999.

WatchSixP,

I have friends in many places, and with regard to posts at the "Debunking board," yes, I admit to posting over there.

I like to ask questions.

With regard to "the Debunking board removing all of my posts" I really don't know what you're talking about.

-- Marianne Michaels (scipublic@aol.com), October 11, 1999.

For heaven's sake, -- @ (@@@.@), whoever you are.

No. That wasn't me.

-- Marianne Michaels (scipublic@aol.com), October 11, 1999.

The responses on that thread are still applicable to you as well... "whoever you are".

-- @ (@@@.@), October 11, 1999.

Marianne,

That you were a poster there is certainly no crime. But, what you posted was pretty interesting. It's a shame it's all gone. Don't you think it's strange that your posts were deleted before you came back to this board? It's also a little odd, too, that Doc Paulie made a point of having everyone check his new archives board, and no one mentioned the missing posts...don't you think? Maybe you could e-mail Charlie and ask him to explain it?

-- (WatchSixP@ul.com), October 11, 1999.

hmmmmm. interesting conversation. here we go again. i have always maintained, this stuff is being said in a public forum. accessible by anyone with the means to get here. not like private emails being exchanged among two people. front row seat.

-- (dont tell em anything@zip.com), October 11, 1999.

you need a quote from Butthead? Here is one:

If I had my way. I would Burn DC to the ground and salt the earth to a depth of one foot so that nothing would ever grow there again. -- Paul Milne (fedibfo@halifax.com), January 24, 1999

-- RsgnituO (yar@here.us), October 11, 1999.

Marianne Michaels is actually ANDY RAY!!!!!!!

-- Porky (Porky@in.cellblockD), October 11, 1999.

Ms. Michaels,

I am one of the few folks who have used their real name (and email address) during my time on this forum. Perhaps, as a courtesy, you could let me know if you plan to include my name or writings in your book. Thank you.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), October 11, 1999.

Decker,

Why are you always fawning for attention?

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), October 11, 1999.

I'm a big believer in courtesy. That's one reason I started this thread. I won't cease being courteous just because Porky thinks I'm Andy Ray. By the way, Porky,

I AM NOT ANDY RAY!

[Grin]

-- Marianne Michaels (scipublic@aol.com), October 11, 1999.

Good luck Decker, the book is going to start shipping on October 15th, so if anything you said is in there I doubt that she's going to wait for your approval. Sure glad I used an anonymous name. I think the book is in bad taste and the timing couldn't be worse. Making light of this situation when it is so important to prepare is only going to help many of the unprepared sheeple continue to laugh it off as a joke.

-- @ (@@@.@), October 11, 1999.

David,

Can you read... or do you simply see my name and suffer a complete lack of comprehension? I'm not asking to be included... I'm asking for fair warning. If Ms. Michaels is as courteous as she claims, she'll provide a "heads up" to individuals who have chosen to use their real identity. For the record, I'm not embarrassed about anything I've written (although the "Wreck of the Y2K Heralds" might generate some ribbing from professional colleagues.) I'm not entirely sure how Ms. Michael's plans to present the forum... although her title gives us some clue. What say you, Ms. Michael's... have I slipped through your literary net?

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), October 11, 1999.

That's where you're wrong Decker. This Ms. Michaels is so unprofessional that she has already printed everyone's comments and is just now informing them that their names will be in this book. If you don't believe me go to her link and view it. You'll see that she is already using Milne's 7-11 slogan on her site and is only now asking for his permission!

-- @ (@@@.@), October 11, 1999.

Good heavens, @ (@@@.@)!

Do you see Milne's name attached to that quote?

As for the ship date, NOTHING will ship without fair warning.

That's the last comment I'm going to make to you about anything, except:

Got valium?

-- Marianne Michaels (scipublic@aol.com), October 12, 1999.

Ms. Michaels,

I asked a direct question and have yet to receive a direct answer. Am I referenced in your book? If you avoid answering again, one might conclude you are unwilling to respond.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), October 12, 1999.

Decker,

I understood you perfectly. It occurred to no one else on this forum to assume that their contributions were so profound that they would ask Ms. Michaels publicly whether their writings would be included, just so they could head them off.

It always amazes me how those who are so transparent to everybody else are completely opaque to themselves. Can you see your reflection in a mirror?

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), October 12, 1999.

Ken,

Assuming you have always posted using your real name and the email you used in this posting, the answer is no.

That's not to say that won't change. I'm still fine-tuning. I will communicate with you privately if I wish to add any of your writings during the editorial process. If you'd like a phone call, please email me your contact information. Thanks!

-- Marianne Michaels (scipublic@aol.com), October 12, 1999.

@,

It's no use , she doesn't gi.

-- val (like@ohmy.god), October 12, 1999.

Val,

You're right, I think she's just a money-grabbing polly without an original thought in her head. Maybe she'll GI when half the people on this forum take her to court.

Marianne,

"Do you see Milne's name attached to that quote?"

No, that's precisely my point. You can't use that slogan for commercial purposes without his permission. Milne created it and he's got the copyright on it (unless someone else can prove they copyrighted it first). Same goes for everyone else on this forum.

Are you planning on using real names of some of these posters? If so, it would be wise to post an advance copy of everything you intend to use, and get their approval. Amazon.com says ship date is October 15. Are you going to get permission, or proceed in a very unprofessional matter?

-- @ (@@@.@), October 12, 1999.

I thunk she said she weren't gonna talk to ya anymore, @. Do you get THAT?

-- laughing (my@patootie.off), October 12, 1999.

Laughing,

I could care less whether or not she responds now. I was only warning her that if she waits until she gets a summons to court she'll have to respond.

-- @ (@@@.@), October 12, 1999.

David,

For Halloween, I know what end of the horse costume will fit you. The phrase "toilet paper" is in the book title. What does that suggest to you? It sounds like she is going to poke fun at the lunatic fringe of Y2K. I am DELIGHTED not to have been quoted. Personally, I'd rather not be lumped in with Paul Milne and the other forum pessimists.

Now, find someone else to misread.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), October 12, 1999.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!

Judge Judy hears the case of

Plaintiff: -- @ (@@@.@)

vs.

Defendant: Marianne Michaels

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!

-- laughing (my@patootie.off), October 12, 1999.

Sorry Kenny,

It looks like you didn't make the cut.

Better luck after rollover.

-- nothere nothere (notherethere@hotmail.com), October 12, 1999.

Spoke with marianne michaels on the phone this evening. I have no qualms about her using that 7-11 quote of mine or any other thing that I have printed in any newsgroup or forum. I said it and that is it. Apparently she is a decent sort, but truthfully it is impossible to tell from a few minutes on the phone. If the world is so lacking in interesting things said by interesting people that she has to resort to something I wrote then the world is a pretty boring place after all.

"If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast."

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), October 12, 1999.

Geez, Paul,

After nearly an hour on the phone with you, I thought--at the very least--you would be willing to write,

"Marianne Michaels is NOT A BUTTHEAD!"

[GRIN]

-- Marianne Michaels (scipublic@aol.com), October 12, 1999.

Laughing,

You are mistaken. In case you haven't noticed I am using an anonymous identity, and I am not interested in being a plaintiff. I was referring to at least a couple hundred of the posters on this forum who have clearly stated that they do not want their posts or names used without first viewing in what context they are used.

My concern is that Amazon.com is showing an October 15 ship date and to my knowledge she has made no effort to verify who is using real names or to get their permission before infringing on their artistic rights.

It is obvious to me what kind of book this is and given the time frame in which it is being released I believe it is far from humorous, and is likely instead to be dangerous to some. She has been posting on the debunkers forum and it is rather clear that our concerns about Y2K are something she thinks should be made a mockery of.

If there were laws against being unethical and profiting by scavenging ideas from other individuals, perhaps I would file a case. But realistically, I am fairly certain that even the stupidest of people will consider this book a waste of time and she will probably not even break even on her investment.

We may not have a great deal of privacy on the Internet but we still do have some protection of our artistic freedom to express ourselves. It is up to each individual whether they want to excercise their right to at least be asked for permission, or to simply allow this kind of practice to go unchecked in which case these rights will eventually be eliminated completely.

I will leave you with a quote from a previous post to Ms. Michaels by a very reputable author who is a far superior example of how to conduct such business in an ethical and professional manner... Mr. Ed Yourdon:

"As far as I'm concerned, all of the messages and threads posted here are in the public domain, so you're welcome to do whatever you want with the information. There is, of course, the ethical question (and perhaps a legal issue, too) about getting formal permissions from anyone who has posted a message with his/her real identity."

-- @ (@@@.@), October 12, 1999.

off off off

-- (off@off.off), October 12, 1999.