The previous article raises some very interesting issues. I do think, however that the author comes to the wrong conclusions on several points. Furthermore, I think that this post deflects us from finding the real truth. This post inadvertently reveals as much as it hides.

To begin with, we must remember that NOTHING happens by chance. The Christian knows this. Some may deny it, but that does not make it any less true. Keep this in mind when reading this and the original post and when considering the debacle of Y2K.

With Y2K as the central issue here, I do not personally believe that the elite or powers that be that control government were caught with their pants down on this one. No way. Weve known about Y2K for two decades, since 1978 and they have had ample time to prepare us and fix the systems. However, it was not meant nor desired to be.

It was not expedient to inform and prepare the masses about Y2K. Nobody was interested several years back and it would have been bad for the economy to force the issue. Better let the thing happen and find a way to take advantage of it. This is now the end game that we are all being forced to play. More on this later.

The author said: We are not clever slithering beings defying government and its spins on the masses with our preparations. It was decided in early/mid 1998 to cause a bit of a pre-activation in hopes that those who would prepare would do so at that early of a date. These people, they reasoned, would be lured up like guppies from the pond, wreck their havoc, and then go away.

This is only a half truth and deflects us from finding out more. The only true part of this statement is we are NOT defying government, no matter how hard we try. I started preparing in 1994 but since then I have come to realize just how orchestrated my response actually has been. Most of what I know is what Im allowed to know. This is a very maddening situation but there is not a lot that can be done about it.

The rest of the statement is false. The government already knew that a certain percentage would prepare. Remember, government and those that control government employ some of the brightest minds around. Many of the guppies have already announced themselves with past investigations, protests, opinions, organizations, involvement, etc. Other would join the ranks because Y2K simply could NOT be ignored by any thinking individual. Government KNEW all this well in advance - count on it.

Furthermore, the government KNEW that we would NOT go away. Past individual track records prove this. Some of us are very, very tenacious. Many have either joined or started grass root organizations to change things in this country. Does this sound like we would go away when we learned about Y2K? Or go away because we got ourselves ready? I think not.

They have to lead and guide 97% through a terrifying and dangerous time with a supply chain already fractured that barely could/can function under the weight of the 2-3%.

NOT!! Again, a half truth here. There is no true, real interest in guiding the 97% through. Call it collateral damage or call it what you will, casualties are planned and expected. Governments primary interest is to retain its power and its control - no matter how many civilians get hurt in the process. A quick look around proves that government remains focused to this day on its plans.

The last half of this statement is truthful. The just in time delivery systems (JITDS) were only capable of a small percentage jump over a short period time. Over a longer period (one year or more) the JITDS could have handled much more but this was deliberately NOT chosen as an option. This is because the plans were more important then the people.

I am predicting that if that 2-3% does not go happily off snug and comfy "saved" from the worst, but instead "rallies the people" as we enter more closely to "D" day, those individuals will be paid a visit, and it may even be by covert assassins. I do not think the Feds will bat one eyelash taking out a hair in the soup of its "get the 97% through this" plan.

Compare this statement to the one about guiding the 97%!! Either government has a true altruistic desire to help as stated in the guiding the 97% comment - or it doesnt really care about the people, but only about itself. To preserve its power, the author makes the claim government will liquidate those who agitate or rally the people. Well, once again, let history be your guide. Tens of thousands are now already dead at the hands of governments that have decided to silence the agitators and tens of thousands more are now in prison. This conclusively proves that government (including ours) is anything but benign, anything but altruistic. It is exactly the opposite. It is cold, calculating, manipulative and will do anything to increase its power and destroy those that resist its plans.

It is in the interest of government to convince the 97% that its true interest is benevolent, but the 3% who have investigated the facts and history realize that this is part of the deception and is in fact, another component of the end game.

You were putty in the Feds hands, you did exactly what they wanted you to do ...

This is very true. We were/are being manipulated folks. Maybe not each of us on an individual level, but I am certain that we were/are on a collective level. Remember, the government KNEW in advance about the 3% who would prepare themselves. Furthermore, examine how the current media is a master at manipulating the masses on every single issue and news event today. This has been going on for a long, long time, far longer then we are willing to admit unless youve done your research. It is my view that certain quantities and types of information were leaked out specifically over the last few years in a deliberate attempt to polarize people to their respective spectrums.

The nation is entering a volatile time period so stay out of the stores, stay out of the banks, and stay out of the "chatrooms.".

This statement should make you sit up and THINK!! This is a dead smack bulls eye. The ONLY way you can avoid government surveillance is to do this and much, much more.

No Fed is going to take your cans of ravioli. It may not have been the agenda, but if you think about it, what the Feds managed to do was get all its discontents, fringe folk, activatists, those too in the know about Y2K (CIO's & Programmers), and Internet loud mouths prepared so they haven't any reason to be out there making what it might perceive as trouble.

Don't claim the Feds were out to get you as you sit the 2-3% prepared and spared misery.

Again, half truths here. I agree that confiscation of food from the people is a very remote possibility. Basically, it just cost too much in manpower and overall resources. The falsehood begins again with the view that there is/was a threat from CIOs and programmers!! This is ludicrous! This class of people is low on the list of concerns. Furthermore, the assumption that those who prepared would go away degenerates into the view that we, the 3% should consider ourselves among the privileged class having been chosen to be the survivors.

This is exactly the opposite of the truth. The 3% are the targeted ones. We are the ones who saw through the smoke and mirrors. Some of the 3% are the ones that our government would consider agitators, non-conformists, constitutionalist, bible believers, whatever name you want to give us, thats us. We were always looking under rocks, trying to find the truth. What we found was an awful lot of dirt, really, really nasty ugly dirt EVERYWHERE we looked. For many of us, Y2K is now a side issue to what we have really discovered. This process of discovery begun some years ago led tens of thousands of us to start grass root efforts and Internet forums and protest efforts and letter writing campaigns and legislative alerts and on and on and on. One discovery led to another and then another and then another and another.... We are the real ones the government is worried about because some of us are VERY aware.

However, I do not see this as a serious threat to the current power structure in this country (or the economy, should anybody actually believe us). There is far too much forward momentum for us to be very effective. Since the government controls all forms of communication and information, its not that hard to make sure that more air time is given to what our government wants us to hear and know.

The government did NOT plan for the 3% who would GI, they UNDERSTOOD that some of us would. It was a given that due to the magnitude of the Y2K issue and the hundreds of thousands of people involved in remediation efforts, it was impossible for the feds to keep a lid on Y2K. All they could do is what they did - put a spin on the whole thing and a happy face and watch for the 3% to rise above the hubris of the crowds. They already knew a certain percentage of us would indeed GI and they were very happy about that because we have revealed ourselves. From this point on, we are targets.

The author states that the 3% broke the system. This is true, but it could have been prevented. JITDS are reasonably flexible due to common market fluxuations and could have handled an increase demand, as Ed Yourdan pointed out. The problem was the people. How do you regulate the rate at which people would have tried to prepare themselves? Warn 250 million people in January 1999 and tell some to wait or January 1998 and what would have happened? Many would rush out and clogged the systems with orders, while others would have waited until the last minute. It would have been chaos. This was a no-win situation. The chosen strategy was to downplay it all and focus on preparing the governments response to the 97% AND identify the 3% AND keep the plans in the works.

The author accurately points out that it was always impossible to ready all 100% of the people. The system simply could not handle it in a year or two. Furthermore, how would they have chosen the haves and have nots? Again, a no-win situation. Better to concentrate on prepping the government response to whatever needs arise due to Y2K and keep their plans afloat.

Lastly, the government is NOT expecting the 3% to help out. This is a ludicrous idea. Our preps do not qualify us as being trained to lead in any way. I know what I am talking about here as I used to work for the government and have had a lot of government training. To be used in the capacity of a change agent or leader, you must first be qualified and the only qualifications the government will accept, especially in a crisis situation is government sanctioned or approved training. Buying a one year food supply doesnt qualify.

I would now like to concentrate on the missing parts of the authors post and the known 3% and why they are considered dangerous.

The known 3% or thereabouts that prepared have now unwillingly revealed themselves as to who they are. Remember, these are the aware, non-conformists. By tracking purchases, email, credit cards, banking transactions, etc., it would be perfectly possible to identify who was preparing and who was not. I am personally aware of at least 1000 families that have prepared, as I was very much involved in this process. If I know this much, how much more does the government know?

It is the 3% that remain the real issue. We are an impediment to government power and control. At best (not very likely) we will be tolerated. However, the more risk we are perceived as being, the more likely is our elimination. It is my view that lowering our risk is the only key to our survival.

Consider this: Government already controls the 97%. Thats what government is now all about - power and control of the people. Its no longer for the people, by the people, but a government over the people. Live or die, the 97% are already controlled and manipulated (and most of them like it that way). Government controls their every waking thought and action. If one of these sheeple ever wakes up and jumps the fence, they are then considered to be among the 3%.

It is interesting to observe that the 3% are still migrating south, farther and farther away from their government. We find ourselves more and more with diametrically opposed views to our leaders, our family, our friends and neighbors. The more we learn, the less we discover we are like them and many of us are now finding ourselves completely outside the camp, bit by bit until we hardly recognize the 97%.

Personally, I see this as a dangerous condition if we dont come to understand it. Not only for our own safety, but because we all too easily develop an us and them attitude due to awareness. Its very hard not to feel this way. Are we wrong about this perspective, or might there be some truth to it? The answer lies in identifying what the end game actually is.

The End Game Now Showing Near You

Recall that government has deliberately polarized the views of the masses, including the 3%. In general, we know what they want us to know. It is exceedingly difficult to find the real truth on almost anything. It takes a great deal of effort to uncover facts and events, especially if more then a little time has passed. Any event or circumstance that occurs that threatens government control and power is immediately distorted and skewed. Given more time, the distortion and obfuscation only gets greater and greater until the truth is all but impossible to find.

I think deep down inside, many of us know this, but we dont keep this consideration continually in mind. We also know that pretty much everything we hear is a distortion of the true facts, but we have come to accept this, even expect it. I think we have found it too difficult to expect brutal honest truth and simply settle for what we can get. I think life would probably be too painful to live if we always had all the truth all the time.

This may startle you, but consider it at its deepest levels. This means that if truth was always spoken, revealed and practices in every aspect of life, you would never, ever be lied to - about anything. Anything and everything you wanted to know would always be revealed to you. You yourself would be perceived exactly as you really are - and you would perceive others exactly as they really are. Do you honestly think you could handle that? There would be no pretense at all. Our entire way of life is based on a reality that practices the distortion of the truth. Simply put, it is the perception of truth that affords our current form of existence as a people.

It would be easy to think that society would realign itself should such truth and reality exist, but I dont think so. This would only happen if everyone, everywhere operated under such truth, otherwise the pretenders would exterminate the truth seekers. Should such a culture exist today, it would be destroyed off the face of the earth. This is because the rest of mankind, the pretenders, could not stand its very existence and would seek to destroy it. They would have to in order to retain their power and control and illusion that they were the ones who were right. Its one of the very reasons why the few who have graced this planet with such lives and concepts were killed. Again, consider history for examples.

Life is tolerable because each of us is allowed, through the distortion of truth, to perceive ourselves (and present ourselves) individually and collectively, as something a little better then we actually are. This reveals a little something about human nature - and ourselves. We each fall short of the truth because of our true natures. Our true nature does NOT desire the truth. We are all pretenders. None of us are perfect and we sure dont want every single secret of our lives revealed for every single person on the planet to see. Secondly, we prefer the distortion of truth because the real truth is too painful to bear. In short, we dont want the truth and we wont tolerate in its purest forms. We will even kill to avoid it.

Let us return again now to the 3%. Among the 3% are those who are interested in real truth. Some of these individuals are seeking to overcome their own selves and their nature. These individuals are interested in far more then just the truth about Y2K, knowing that this is only a tiny piece of the entire puzzle. It is not in governments interest to ALLOW the truth (about anything) to be revealed, as this defeats its purpose of existence and power and control over the people. As long as we dont understand the real truth, then we are really no threat at all. If any of the 3%, or 2% or 1% come to understand real truth then these individuals are perceived as VERY serious threats to the government. The actual percentage is of course, not known, but its very, very tiny in my opinion.

Government (i.e., power) is very much threatened by anyone who will seek out real truth. This is because real truth threatens the existing power structure and reveals things and people and institutions for what they really are. Since government is comprised of a vast collection of people, many of them just like us, we must ask ourselves why this collection of people would be so threatened by real truth. We have already covered the answer, but Ill share it again. It is because real truth is too painful to bear and destroys our power structures, individually and collectively and reveals the true nature.

This is where we discover that there really is an us and them. The 3% (its actually much, much smaller then this, but I dont have the figures) will search for the real truth, the 97% are perfectly content to accept the status quo, the manipulation, the distortion, the daily dose of lies and coverups, some of them knowing all the while they are being spoon fed, but content and satisfied all the same, unwilling to forsake it all and search out the real truth.

Why then is there this perceivable difference between the two groups? I think it boils down to a desire for honesty and truth. Notice I did not say one group was honest (mans nature remains the same), but one group has a desire to search for honesty and truth. Anyone that wants honesty and truth will always move to the side of the 3%. They have to. Eventually, they wont be able to tolerate existence among the 97% in lies and deceit. Consider yourselves. Some of you were DGIs and then became GIs. Now its hard to tolerate the DGIs. You now reside among the 3%.

The 3% know that all is not right in the world and Y2K heralds ominous dark times. The 3% will also want to know, in their desire and search for real truth, what lies beyond Y2K. What happens next? Its not hard to see the writing on the wall on this issue, in fact, it is staring most of us in the face and we, once again, due to our nature to avoid the real truth, refuse to admit it.

Clearly, the end game is about power and control. Its about truth and deception. Since the 3% refuse to accept the lies and distortions, they can no longer be tolerated. They will in fact, either be forced to choose to rejoin the 97% or they will be killed. Many people are worried about the 97%, but these have already chosen their delusions, in fact, God himself has given up on them and sent them strong delusions. He is now considering the actions of the remaining 3%.

It is critically important to consider how the 3% will be forced to choose. Again, consider the writing on the wall. All 100% of us are facing world government, a standing UN army, loss of national sovereignty, a cashless society, financial monitoring at the individual level, national i.d. cards, biometric monitoring, even chip implants, individual and national disarmament, socialized health care, loss of individual rights and privacy and much, much more. These are the plans of government (the published ones, there are many, many more). It is noteworthy to consider that a very large percentage of the population is embracing these changes (the deception is almost complete). All of these coming events are about power and control, now being orchestrated on a global scale. These events will happen in our lifetimes.

The ability of the 3% to conduct individual, private lives is fast disappearing. It is my view that only a tiny percentage of the 3% will actually find ways to survive these changes and avoid death or rejoining the 97%.

Whether you think Y2K is TEOTWAWKI, the government clearly does NOT. They are fast moving ahead with their plans to implement all of the above. Y2K is the lever that is required to put these plans in motion. Its pretty easy to see that government is looking beyond Y2K and always has. There is still much resistance to the above plans mentioned above (its far greater then the 3%) and the easy way to abolish this resistance is to allow society to go through some upheavals. Im betting that the majority of people will gladly give up EVERYTHING to regain their comfort and luxuries in life (haven't they already?). The only people that seem to be aware of this is a very tiny percentage of the people. We are headed for some major shakeups, but what we will get AFTERWARDS is NOT what is desired.

It is also critical to note that it matters NOT if Y2K is a major event or a minor event or even a NON-EVENT. Either way works to further the established plans. Y2K in reality needs to be nothing more then a perceived event by the people (i.e., the computers and systems DONT go down, but continue to function). In that case, panic and hysteria could still be generated with a quick little spin in our government controlled media. Essentially, what I am saying here is weve been had folks and end run is already here and there is nothing we can do about it. Its all about perceptions and has nothing to do with truth. Its about creating the reality they want you to have. There is only one possible way out of this conundrum and that is to search out and find the real truth and then get yourself out of the deceptions.

For some of us, we know that the death knell of America is at hand. Y2K is providing the necessary springboard to bring about the final chapter. It is imperative that we correctly deduce the coming events and understand their significance and how they will affect us and moreover, what we, the tiny percentage can and will do about it. I do not believe for an instant that we can stop it or even slow it down. Those that try will be squashed like bugs. Our only hope is to get out of the way, entirely. We cannot rescue the 97%. They dont want to be rescued. We cant even rescue the 3% who cant see past the Y2K event. The only ones that can possibly be saved are those who understand the end game. As sad as this is, these are the ONLY ones who stand a chance of making it, and there are no guarantees here either.

-- Sparky (not@available.com), October 10, 1999

Answers

Dang Sparky,

Very good post. I agree with you. I have been thinking lately of crossing over to the 97%. It is not easy to be in the 3% and watch things develop so rapidly. But I won't because I want to be free.

I have never really thought that Y2K is TEOTWAWKI like most. I have looked at Y2K as the straw that will break the camels back to take away most of the freedoms and independance that Americans have left . I guess that is one way of looking at it as TEOTWAWKI. The world government is upon us. It is deceptive, it is powerful, it is mean, it is ugly, it is ruthless, it will control most.

The 97% are just like frogs in a big pot of water. The burner has been turned up. They are boiling to death. They dont know it.

-- the Virginian (Virginian@LookingForTrampus.WhereIsHe), October 10, 1999.

Sparky, I enjoyed the read...but I still have to believe that (The Powers That be) would rather have control over somthing thats controlable...as life is now PRE-Y2K...there are to many veriables for TPTB after or during Y2K.. All of what you talk about could be gaurantied without Y2K, but throwing in the worlds biggest ever wild card is somthing thats even behond there control...---...

-- Les (yoyo@tolate.com), October 10, 1999.

Interesting post. However nothing is foreordaned. Govt isn't a monlithic entity. Neither are the 3% nor 97% [accuracy questioned].

When speaking of large scale socio-political power consolidations sometimes it is easier to present one's case if the focus is attenuated. In the above presented view and the original post several factors are kept outside the analysis in order that a coherent forecast be made.

Specifically: a bad y2k hit & the associated economic turmoil could easily take out the very technological & economic basis of large scale population manipulation.

a bad y2k hit could easily result in sufficient population contraction whereby "frontiers" again become a geophysical reality for the remaining population.

a medium or less y2k hit might allow the possibility of the world envisioned to come about, however, that envisioned totalitarian world state would still have to deal with

1. extensive top-soil erosion.

2. a continuing increasing lack of fresh water.

3. the ongoing inertia in regarding the distribution of food resources between geophysical regions. the accelerating depletion of ocean fisheries, and the fastly becoming apparent overall failure of farming fish [due to the subsequent ecological disasters].

4. the ongoing disaster of monoculture agriculture and sylvaculture. genetically altered crops have a potentially huge downside.

5. the inability to continue processing waste due to the lack of landfill space. the vast cost of processing the leaching from the established landfills.

6. the vast and deadly amount of concentrated nuclear material both refined and as waste will _have_ to be dealt with within our lifetimes or there will be no lifetimes _at all_ within a couple of generation hence. Additionally as old reactors are decommissioned the plants themselves must be handled with much care. Thirdly, nuke accidents do happen.

7. the ongoing population expansion and the resultant decline of human quality.

8. the inadvertant selection of super-bugs due to 2-3 generation's use of anti-biotics will certainly play a major part in our and our children's future.

9. the ongoing escalating cost of the extraction and refining of _all_ those metals which allow such a highly regulated society such as our, to exist. A computer contains over 70 elements, I will say that only wealthy societies can afford to extract at that level and one could make a good point that a 3-7 y2k hit would be of sufficient magnitude to render the economic physical reality to mine those metal very dear indeed.

10. it is my view that the biological fallout from 60 years of pesticide and herbicide use is far from over and the outcome far from known; the biological fallout due to manufacture and use of very toxic chemicals will proceed down the generations.

11. ongoing large scale ecological changes are creating ramifications, the scale and impact of which are presently unknowable, but have an initial appearance of being able to radically alter humankind's ability to be.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We are coming upon a unique event. Not a single one of us knows yet how we are going to react to the unknowable extent of y2k and its subsequent fallout. To call the masses "sheeple" [or whatever your favorite word is] while calling attention to the possibility of NWO totaliarism is no less arrogant than the attitude of our most jaded leaders on whom the attention is being cast.

imo, too much paranoia, not that some isn't justified, is bandied about when talking NWO take-over - whether y2k related or not. Neither position takes into account the physical world. Generally the underlaying assumption of NWO is an economic reality similiar [regardless of the names of the Players] to that which we have been living since we were born - not a valid assumption ihmo. Political realities are counted and the physical weight of humanity, its products, by-products, wastes, needs, and "genius" [in the Roman Latin sense] are ignored.

"Find the cost of freedom buried in the land". - CSN&Y

mitchell barnes

-- Mitchell Barnes (spanda@inreach.com), October 10, 1999.

Sparky, I think your conclusions may be flawed too. Just because someone is preparing for y2k doesn't mean they are anti-government.

While there are times that I don't like what government does, I still think they do a fairly good job. Look at the roads which have been built, free education for all children, a guarenteed minimum wage, social security for seniors, etc. Our military is the best in the world. Government has done a lot of good. Why do you assume they are evil?

-- Lynn Ratcliffe (mcgrew@ntr.net), October 10, 1999.

Lynn, everything you mentioned was not PAID FOR by the government, but by the people and their hard earned dollars. The only thing you mentioned that has benefited me, are the roads, but heh, welfare both corporate and social benefit from it too and they haven't put a nickel into it. FREE EDUCATION? Hah, that's a laugh, nothing is FREE! The military? They just take orders and bomb and kill people just to wag the dog. While Clinton's getting a blow job, he's ordering the destruction of embassies, and biological/chemical warfare labs that turned out to be an aspirin factory. Yeh, we have the best alright.

-- Rasty (Rasty@bulldoggg.xcom), October 10, 1999.

Rasty,

>Yeh, we have the best alright.

Well, where are things better then? Give me an example of something better so I can compare it to this country.

Btw, I never said that the people didn't pay for these things. How do you expect to get them if they aren't paid for? Would you want to live in a country where education wasn't provided? Can you imagine a whole class of citizens who can't read or write getting by in this society? Some things are necessary for the public good.

I still believe that government does a fairly good job.

-- Lynn Ratcliffe (mcgrew@ntr.net), October 10, 1999.

Good post Sparky. Mitchell, I agree that some of the factors you cite are and will be at play. I've wondered too, "why would they want to screw this up? It's really almost exactly the way they want it now."

David Icke wrote a great book "the truth shall set you free", in 1994. He documents the last 300 years of the Bankers and NWO crowd, and when you see their agenda, all the strange things that 'happen' today make sense. For example, Clinton's trip to Rowanda last year etc. David shows all the connections of Clinton, FDR, the IMF, World Bank, etc.

I don't underestimate these guys, but it does seem that if Y2K is somehow planned, that they couldn't wind up with a better situation for themselves - if, Y2K is serious at all.

I do wish people would wake up and about of Government - can anything be more two-faced?

-- Gregg (g.abbott@starting-point.com), October 10, 1999.

Good post Sparky. Mitchell, I agree that some of the factors you cite are and will be at play. I've wondered too, "why would they want to screw this up? It's really almost exactly the way they want it now."

David Icke wrote a great book "the truth shall set you free", in 1994. He documents the last 300 years of the Bankers and NWO crowd, and when you see their agenda, all the strange things that 'happen' today make sense. For example, Clinton's trip to Rowanda last year etc. David shows all the connections of Clinton, FDR, the IMF, World Bank, etc.

I don't underestimate these guys, but it does seem that if Y2K is somehow planned, that they couldn't wind up with a better situation for themselves - if, Y2K is serious at all.

I do wish people would wake up and about OUR Government - can anything be more two-faced?

-- Gregg (g.abbott@starting-point.com), October 10, 1999.

Gregg, 300 years ago, the Constitution had not yet been signed! So how can you say that the government has been involved in this for 300 years?

-- Lynn Ratcliffe (mcgrew@ntr.net), October 11, 1999.

A careful analysis and review of history will prove that the formation of the United States of America was a planned and orchestrated event. Basically said, America's destiny was to become the world's superpower. It did NOT happen by chance.

It is interesting to note that the same year of our declared liberty, 1776 is also the same year the Illuminati was formed. Coincedence? I think not. There are thousands upon thousands of other facts that cannot be ignored that point to a vast global plot to bring about the events of today. In case you don't realize it yet, it's all smoke and mirrors. It is not hard to create the world view you want people to believe if you obscure history and control the media and institutions of learning. Furthermore, it is also very easy to control the thinking of the people by controlling the economy. It is very hard for the unaware to shatter the mirrors in their lives - but to survive what is coming it is essential that you must do so.

-- Sparky (not@available.com), October 11, 1999.

Sparky, Sorry but I don't believe in the New World Order. I still would like to see an example of a country/government that is better than the US.

-- Lynn Ratcliffe (mcgrew@ntr.net), October 11, 1999.

Lynne, I haven't been abroad, but knowing people from Italy, or France, or even Mexico has shown me that they possess a "love of life" or appreciation of just being that our modern America seems to totally lack. You are told what you want to eat, drive, look like, smell like, read, think, how to vote, etc., etc. The simple pleasure of laying in the grass is something I would bet 90% of adult Americans don't ever consider as something to do.

You must not know anything of the Federal Resevere (a PRIVATE bank, listed in the White pages after Federal Express). You must not know about the Rothchilds and Rockefellers.

Why, did Clinton make his first action after being elected, the passing of the GATT agreement and NAFTA? The GATT stuff was REAGAN and BUSH's baby. Why was Clinton so for it as well? Why did the Congress not read the 2 telephone book sized paper, and pass it blindly? If you don't know, then you must at least admit you don't know what forces are running things. Learn about it.

Our government is wonderful? Do you like the fact that it now takes two people to make enough to live like our parents could, with just one bread winner? Do you like that the Dollar is worth pennies of what it once was? They simply said, "Women want to work too? OK, then we will pay you both (Men and Women) 1/2 as much, you will not have time to think of anything outside of your little life, you will desire all manner of escapes (TV, movies, etc, ) and we will fill your numb mind with even more BS than ever!

Now is that your idea of a life well lived if you had a choice?

-- Gregg (g.abbott@starting-point.com), October 11, 1999.

Lynn - in trying to understand your views that "America is better" I may get some points wrong, but I'll try.

Why do you assume that what America has IS better? Better then what? That is, our sense of culture, materialism, society, etc. Are you comparing national and individual wealth, technology, infrastructure as items that are "better"? I'll call all of this "stuff" - and it ain't worth a hill of beans in the larger perspective of things.

What about the people? Americans are among some of the most stupid, insensitive, arrogant and blind people in the world. Yeah, I'm speaking about myself here too, I'm not pulling any punches here.

We do not see the world as it really is, we prefer the deception and readily embrace the world views prescribed to us by our task masters (media, government, institutions of higher learning, etc.). It isn't that we see the world through rose-colored glasses, it's we don't see the world at all! We think the world revolves around us, a sign of our arrogance.

Ask an American to examine the facts and true history and events and 99% of American's REFUSE. It's too painful, too difficult and too costly on a personal level (because the realization of the truth is going to cause you to change your lifestyle). The complacency and apathy, coupled with arrogance in this country is unbelievable!

These statements are not easy to swallow, but lead right into one of the points I was trying to make. We DON'T want truth - we argue and cajole and squirm our way around it. We make excuses in a desperate attempt to avoid it. The fact that you yourself respond in a favorable fashion for America as being "better" is a example. Rather then seek to justify yourself, go examine the facts.

Yes, America is rich is resources, technology, education, medicine, finance, etc., etc., BUT these things do not "make" America or our government by extension "Better".

True value is not in material things. True value exists at an ethereal level, such as relationships. Americans have no sense of relationship, we have fragmented our people among themselves (deliberately I might add - all the better to control the people) to such a point that we all live little isolated lives of existence, never coming to really know our true selves or each other.

Anyone who is really a seeker of truth comes to know these things. They will also be branded as a heretic, refusing to toe the politically correct line. They are outcasts from society, from churches, from established and accepted social "norms". Consider this fact, that the majority doesn't make right - it is simply mob rule.

Lest any of you think this is an attack just on America or American's it's not. It is people everywhere in every culture that refuses to examine and consider what is true and what is of real value. I am not talking about the material things, but those experiences and relationships that ought to exist between people. An outgrowth or sign of the true nature of these relationships can be evidenced by how a society takes care of its elderly and it's very young. Looking again at America, we do an appalling job of both - horrifying in fact. However, we are not alone in this, other nations do the same or even worse in some instances.

The point is, it is the condition of the individual human heart and the desire for truth. A heart that seeks truth will also recognize their own condition and will then change their own individual behaviour. Nations are comprised of millions of individuals. This nation does not want truth - it does not want to change and it prefers things the way they are. The 3% (or whatever it is, I do not know) will pay a very high personal price for change, because they must. Stepping outside of the norms of perception, thinking and living standards brands them immediately as outcasts. They gladly pay the price, finding something of far greater value then materialism, greed, power, prestige, comfort and luxury. They seek to know what lies beyond the world that we perceive with two eyes and the journey takes them a lifetime.

I invite anyone that reads this to consider the facade that our society and culture really is. Begin to look beyond what it appears to be to find out what its true nature is. The discovery is very startling, but you will much richer personally for doing so.

-- Sparky (not@available.com), October 11, 1999.

Lynne, Do you realize that with that line about the best country, that you always have to compare yourself with the worst in order to appear "good?" Wonder why that is. The NWO is real and been here long before any of us, don't you think they'd be happy if we all failed to believe in them?

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), October 12, 1999.

Love of life is a CHOICE not something that is mandated by governments.

I am familiar with the Federal Reserve, the Rothchilds and Rockefellers.

I never liked NAFTA but I don't see it as a NWO plot, only as a public policy choice......

In regards to your statement, "Do you like the fact that it now takes two people to make enough to live like our parents could, with just one bread winner?", perhaps it depends on when your parents lived and the choices that they made! My parents only ate out 1 or 2 times a year...how many times a year do modern families eat out? My parents went years without a car because they couldn't afford one. We walked or rode the bus. How many people do that today? These are CHOICES.....and the CHOICES are not mandated by the government!!!!!

In regards to this statement, "think of anything outside of your little life, you will desire all manner of escapes (TV, movies, etc, ) and we will fill your numb mind with even more BS than ever!", Gregg, please turn off the TV and quit watching the movies. These are CHOICES, not something mandated by the government!!!

Sorry, Gregg, but we have REALLY different views on life.

-- Lynn Ratcliffe (mcgrew@ntr.net), October 13, 1999.

Well, Patrick, I must make them very, very happy.

-- Lynn Ratcliffe (mcgrew@ntr.net), October 13, 1999.

Gregg, if you want to learn more about how to live on one income, please get a book called " Your Money or Your Life : Transforming Your Relationship With Money and Achieving Financial Independence" by Joe Dominguez, Vicki Robin, ISBN: 0140167153, available in paperback.

-- Lynn Ratcliffe (mcgrew@ntr.net), October 13, 1999.