I was thinking about the fact that so many people are going to pull rather large amounts of cash out of the bank for Y2K.

Has anyone considered the fact that we are basically setting ourselves up for CRIMINALS to go "trick or treating" in our homes in the event of disruptions? All thqat cash out there will be mighty tempting, and it will only take one half-moron to tell other people and start a rash of robberies.

Im not trying to tell people not to take money out, because I am, but then again, I have a brand spankin new Mossberg 590 tactical shotgun too.

I guess I just wanted to bring this possibility up for people who may not have put much time into thinking about home security in the event of worst case.

For those of you who hate guns and refuse to own one, you should consider some pepper spray at least. People who own dogs have an advantage as well, as most criminals will just keep on walking if they think you have a dog.

Anyway..put some thought into your home security plan.

I should also mention that i was able to get a $350 NIGHT VISION scope for only $180 at an ebay.com auction. For those of you looking for deals, you should try ebay if you havent already. You can search for items you need, and make bids...its very simple.

my .01 (after taxes)

-- Mad Max (me@yourmomshouse.fun), October 08, 1999

Answers

Check the archive under awareness...couple of threads on this same topic posted two or so months ago...

-- Billy-Boy (Rakkasn@Yahoo.com), October 08, 1999.

Just an additional thought: If you are stocking up on anything the riffraff might want, don't tell anyone that doesn't have a real need to know. If I wanted something I knew you had, I think I would get a hostage and then tell you to bring it to me. If I was just fishing, I would tend to fish in quieter waters.

-- tinlizzie (par@noia.asy), October 08, 1999.

Bold off.

-- tinlizzie (par@noia.asy), October 08, 1999.

Well, the good thing about my house is all the bedrooms are up stairs, so by the time you get into my house and start coming up stairs, the only thing you will find is a loud boom followed by a bright light that you have the feeling you should walk toward....

no hostages in my house.

-- Mad Max (me@yourmomshouse.fun), October 08, 1999.

Max

Good points, and they have been considered by me and mine.

Nice shotgun too. Just make sure you know how and when to use it. Having a wood lathe doesn't mean you know how to make furniture. But before you do anything with that Mossburg, learn gun safety.

Good luck and keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.not), October 08, 1999.

Yeah, its my first weapon , but Ive joined a gun club, and am taking a hunters safety course. Id like to take an urban security course, but I dont think ill have time. Dont worry, I intend to fire it a lot before now and January. All mossbergs come with a cable lock for child safety as well....which is cool.

-- Mad Max (me@yourmomshouse.fun), October 08, 1999.

As an interesting side note:

The gun store I bought my shotgun at told me that shotguns are becoming hard to come by. I was originally looking for a mossberg model 500 "persuader" since it was less expensive, but the gunstore couldn't get them in. WAL-MART carried that weapon as well, but for some reason they said they are no longer able to get those in anymore.

The guy at the gunstore said he cant keep them in the store because people are buying them for Y2K. Im sure some of you have heard similar stories. We are starting to have a shortage of shotguns it seems. Interesting to say the least.

-- Mad Max (me@yourmomshouse.fun), October 08, 1999.

YO MAX.....

Unless they have changed the hunter's safety courses they don't tell you when you are entitled to use deadly force in your state (eg when you may ointroduce that "intruder" to the white light). Sit down with a law enforcement officer and get the straight info. You may be unpleasantly surprised.

Night train

-- jes a shootin footballer (nighttr@in.lane), October 08, 1999.

tinlizzie,

If I wanted something I knew you had, I think I would get a hostage and then tell you to bring it to me.

That's why people should practice making head shots with hostage-style paper targets (bad guy has a gun to hostages head with only bad guys head visible). I can put 10 out of 10 in the bad guys head up to about 15 yards with a handgun. 200 yards with the .308 rifle. Shotgun is definitely the wrong tool for that kind of situation. -TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), October 08, 1999.

Gee you'd think with so many "rational" people on this BB the answer would be clear. If you think money or possesions are worth dying for then maybe you'll get your wish. Personally, I would never shoot a human being (or any living creature) for trying to "take my things". If it's "take my life", okay then different story. But when you really look at the big picture, "taking my stuff" almost never equals "taking my life". And again, having a gun only increases your chances of being shot. Not having one doesn't necessarily mean you won't get hurt but at least you'd remove those impetuous, irrational Dirty Harry complexes from ruling your logical thinking. Just two cents worth of advice, take it or leave it. If you sow peace then peace is what you'll have. Plant violence and... well, what goes around comes around.

Personally I wonder if any of you could live with yourselves after you murdered a man or woman. My hunch is that, assuming a few months of disruptions, there will be alot of suicide cases around the end of next year. Peaope will realize that when things get back in order they are going to have to anty up for their actions. Considering all the "nice stuff" you have now, 'twenty five to life' is a real bitch to pay off.

-- (that@is. all), October 08, 1999.

I would have to assume that anyone who is willing to break into my house is willing to hurt me or mine,eat hot lead,sucka

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), October 08, 1999.

Ah but you see, the trick is not to lock up your house, then they'll come in peace.

-- (go back to@your studies. grasshopper), October 08, 1999.

"Personally, I would never shoot a human being (or any living creature) for trying to "take my things"."

I'd say it depends on what the "things" are. Food you need to survive? Medicine you need to survive? Your only good boots or set of warm clothing (in the middle of winter)?

OK, let's say they don't want your "things" at all. They just want to rape & sodomize you, & the wife & kids, over & over & over.

Trigger finger getting itchy yet...?

-- what a bizarre (discussion@this.is), October 08, 1999.

I agree...

People who sit in their homes and hope noone comes through the door are just asking for trouble. You can always get some pepper spray if you dont want a gun, but to sit there and say " I would never hurt a human..bal blah blah" is just stupid IMO.

So what you are saying is that if some guy came in your house with the intent to KILL YOU, you would just let them, since you cannot hurt a human. God must have sent them in to kill you right? I just dont understand that thinking.

Im not a highly religious man, but I cant imagine our GOD would want you to just stand there like a stupid sheep and get killed by some phsycho....at least that is what one pasture told me a while back.

Like zom said, if they break into your house, you can probably assume they dont care about the lives of you or your family.

We all have to make our own choices. I dont want to shoot anyone, but i want to have the option if needed.

-- Cory Hill (coryh@strategic-services.net), October 08, 1999.

I guess people around here just love their houses so much they'll turn their brothers and sisters into hamburger helper with a Mossberg Tactical Shotgun. Fine, that's your choice. God must have put shotguns on Earth for a purpose right?

I presumed that people around here can draw a line between possesions and humanity. Apparently I guessed wrong.

-- (ta@ta.for now), October 08, 1999.

"I presumed that people around here can draw a line between possesions and humanity. Apparently I guessed wrong. "

I've never understood remarks like this. Isn't it obvious that we're talking about self-defense on this thread?

Is self-defense not an obvious concept to some people? How can it not be obvious?

If you life depends on your home & its stash of food, then someone's attempt to enter that house & steal that stash amounts to attempted murder.

You have the right to defend yourself against attempted murder.

Which part of that is difficult to understand?

-- self defense (is@not.murder), October 08, 1999.

for those of you who think this is about stuff--get real. i am a woman. hate guns. but after a long time of praying about it (and also believing that god protects me), i finally decided to get a gun when the county police actually recommended me getting one. i am NOT PROTECTING STUFF. I AM PROTECTING MY FAMILY. because if someone is in your house (especially if 9-1-1 is down), there is a chance they might take your stuff and decide to kill you too if you get in their way. or heck, they might kill you just for the fun of it--especially if they decide to let out the prisoners as they did down South.

i would, however, hope (and can't imagine you haven't considered this) you folks with the high powered weapons consider what walls and floors, etc they might affect when you use them (uh, like having a dead neighbor). hopefully you don't live next door to my townhouse. and personally, i think the thought of killing someone is horrible but then so is a man in my house with me unarmed and images of my own children dead.

-- tt (cuddluppy@yahoo.com), October 08, 1999.

I presumed that people around here can draw a line between possesions and humanity. Apparently I guessed wrong.

Personally, I PRESUME that no person that HAS any sense of HUMANITY toward others will attempt to rob/kill my family or myself. SO that leaves me free to kill the RABID ANIMALS (which is always the kindest thing to do for them anyway).

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), October 08, 1999.

If the good did not fight back, evil would win, would it not?

What about D-day? What about the battle of Midway? The Battle of Britain?

So, if some guy busts into your house and decides to rape your 10- year old daughter while his partner raids your house, you would stand there and do nothing? It's easy to say one thing, but when you're actually thrown into a situation such as this and your adreneline is pumping and you have to think fast, you may be surprized.

If you're a Christian and worried about the ramifications, I'm sure God will understand given the circumstances.

-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), October 08, 1999.

Hello,

FWIW, I know a lot about tactical defense ammo.

Shotguns: Buckshot is the ticket. I prefer Number One Buck. Nuber four sometimes doesn't penetrate enough, especially with heavy winter clothing and/or intermediate barriers like walls, furniture, ect. Double "ought" buck (i.e. 00 Buck), sometimes penetrates too much, and has too much energy after going thru conventional interior walls. Thus it poses more of a risk to innocents like your neighbors. The key to a shotguns effectiveness is the multiple simultaneous hits. Don't use slugs or non-buckshot loads for shotgun self defense. Slugs will penetrate SEVERAL walls, thus posing way too much threat to innocent life. Regular shot, #6, #8, ect...even larger "game hunting" loads will not penetrate enough to reliably put down a homicidal attacker. Stick with buckshot. First choice inside = #1 buck! Second choice inside = 00 buck (double 'ought buck). These shells are expensive. Often a buck a shell. DON'T cheap out on ammo...or don't bother! A box of 25 hunting loads for rabbits, ect is not what you want to bet your life on when under homicidal attack!! Also, buckshot KICKS! If the recoil bothers you, select standard buckshot loads, not the "magnum" buckshot loads. Again, it's the simultaneous hits that do the trick -- not the velocity of each pellet with a shotgun.

Also, YOU HAVE TO AIM TO HIT YOUR TARGET!!!!

-- Genius (codeslinger@work.now), October 08, 1999.

A few years ago, I entered my then townhouse during lunchtime. I noticed a light on upstairs that I knew I had not left on. I went upstairs and was attacked from behind. Seems like the person that was in my house had stepped into the bedroom that was beside the stairs going up so that I could not see them as I got to the second floor. I fought back. If I hadn't been in a suit and heels, the guy would have been there when the police arrived. I was about to push him down the stairs when he tightened his grip on me. I fought back as hard as I could. Finally he overpowered me and threw me to the floor. He made his quick exit from my home yelling that he would kill me if I followed him. I did, then called the police when I knew that I could not catch him in the clothing that I had on.

My outlook has changed drastically since that day. Now I own guns. I would not hesitate to use them in that situation. I didn't know if the guy was going to rape me or kill me. I was determined that if he was going to rape me, that I would be dead when he did it. Lucky for me, he took the quick exit. I know how to shoot, and my aim is deadly. I can hit a 3 ltr coke bottle at 50 feet multiple times with my hand gun. Can even blow the top off of it. So you people that say you would never use a gun, I think you just might change your mind if you had happen to you what I did. I walked my home during the nights with a butcher knife, because I had the feeling that the man was there and watching me. I didn't want him to hurt either me or my son. It can mess with your mind for a long time, and there is nothing you can do about it. Now, at least for me, there is something that I can do, and will do.

-- (cannot-say@this.time), October 08, 1999.

Hello,

OOPS! Hit the submit button before I was ready...continuing...

YOU DO HAVE TO AIM TO HIT YOUR TARGET WITH A SHOTGUN!! To dispell any myths about a shotgun pattern of pellets taking out anything that's in the direction you are pointing in, shoot cardboard or paper at an across the room distance. You might just be amazed at how little the pellets spread out. This will drive home the need to aim at your target! Not point, close your eyes and pull the trigger. Else, your target is likely to shoot back too much, me thinks! AIM!!!!!!! Even with a shotgun. Think about getting a deer hunting barrel. They have rifle sights on them. Think also about self luminous sights to better aim at that "moving shadow" in the dark....and with a pump, don't rattle the fore end (the part you "pump"), giving your location away!

-- GENIUS (CODESLINGER@WORK.NOW), October 08, 1999.

Dislcosures from Credit Unions:

PSEA CU - Statement Insert, October 1999

Preparing for the Year 2000

"With all of our Credut Union computer systems and contingency plans ready for the new millineum, you can rest easy knowing that your money is secure. You do not need to take any special action regarding your Credit Union accounts. Simply keep records as you always have and remember that there are safety issues in keeping too much cash around, not to mention the loss of interest or investment income from cashing out deposits. The safest place for your money is with the Credit Union.

Y2K Internet Resources

For more news and information about Y2K, visit the Internet. The American Red Cross has prepared a Y2K checklist, available at www.redcross.org. In addition, you can visist www.year2000.com for Y2K news, links and updated information from various industries.

Credit Union Readiness

Pacific Service CU has been working diligently to ensure a smooth transition to the Year 2000. Testing of our critical systems was completed by December 31, 1998. Testing of out non-critical systems was completed by March 31, 1999. All systems are Y2K compliant.

Horizon Credit Union

October 1999 - "On the Horizon" - Quarterly Newsletter

Y2K We're resting easy, are you?

Financial institutions are leading the way with early compliance, testing and resolution of Year 2000 (Y2K) issues with computers or machinery run by computers or computer-chips. Horizon Credit Union is right here with testing and compliance! Every credit union, including Horizon Credit Union, has been under a very strict timetable established buy the National Credit Union Association (NCUA) for testing and complying with Year 2000 tests. Credit unions and other financial institutions have been the leaders in testing and compliance.

We are highly confident that Horizon Credit Union will experience very little or no problems during our transition to the new year. Our extensive testing and validation of our computers and computer-related systems has brought nothing but positive results.

Doesn't the above information give you a warm fuzzy feeling? See, there's no reason to take your money out of the bank. It just isn't safe in your hands, you the owner are a child, whose incapable of handling money.

-- penniless (penniless@pennilesss.xcom), October 08, 1999.

The guy at the gunstore told me to pump my shotgun nice and loud so the intruder can here it. They will probably run for it. Obviously you should be somewhere where you cannot get shot easily. My house is a two story, so ill be at the top of my stairs (behind the wall).

I talked to him also about my local (NEVADA) laws on use of deadly force. He said, in a nutshell that if the intruder has a weapon, and shows intent to use it, then you are free to fire away. Otherwise....DONT DO IT! Dont just blow someone away because they came into your home...you might find yourself in prison. Verify VISUALLY that they have a weapon. My tactical shotgun has a light system (flashlight) on it for this very reason. VISUALLY VERIFY that they have a weapon.

As for the load to use in your shotgun. Im using #6. I was told by several people that it will take an intruder out, and will go through two layers of sheet rock, but will fall to the ground after the second layer (one typical wall). I actually plan to test that with a simulated wall...maybe ill post it on here if anyone is interested.

I too worry about hurting my family...so im taking steps to assure this wont happen. Also, my child is being tought to lay down in the bathtub in case of such an emergency.

Would one of the hardcore christians on the list please explain why God would expect you to just "get killed" If someone broke into your home with such intent. Im curious to hear that story.

peace

-- Mad Max (me@yourmomshouse.fun), October 08, 1999.

It was suggest to me by uniformed people in my area, who should know about such things, that it is best to kill the intruder rather that just wounding them, thus avoiding any conflicting opinions. Also, it's not a bad idea to have an extra handgun or knife available that can be put in the intruder's hand in case you made a mistake about the armed status of the intruder.

-- Noll Paynter (Worldlink@seanet.com), October 08, 1999.

Noll,

You bring up a very good point. If you wounded someone, and they were able to leave, then either that person or their family could sue you. That is a fact. I'm not going to comment on your other good idea however.

-- (cannot-say@this.time), October 08, 1999.

Max,

The Bible allows a homeowner to defend his home if broken into under cover of darkness. In such a situation, deadly force can be used. It is assumed that the intruder knew that the house was occupied and intended to harm the occupants.

Many state laws used to follow that line of reasoning, but don't assume that any more.

As a Christian, I do not believe that I am called to be passive in the face of a threat, to me, my family, or my neighbors. If the Good Samaritan had happened upon the man on the road to Jericho while he was being beaten by the thieves, would he have waited until they were finished? Surely he would at least have attempted to intervene.

When soldiers asked John the Baptist what they should do, he told them not to take money from anyone by force, no false accusations, and to be content with their wages. Nothing about giving up soldiering, or becoming non-resistant. Every centurian mentioned in the New Testament is mentioned as an honorable person.

I have no quarrel with those who feel that they are called to be non-resistant, but I do not share their conviction at that point.

There is a lot more biblical information. But this is just off the top of my head. I might add that the best solution is to avoid a fight if possible, but sometimes there may be no choice.

regards,

gene

-- gene (ekbaker@essex1.com), October 08, 1999.

Gene,

Thanks for the excellent reply. You echoed what seemed to me, common sense.

-- Mad Max (me@yourmomshouse.fun), October 09, 1999.

If you can use a mouse you can use a shotgun. Just point and click! (Just kidding)

-- John F. (millenniumadrenaline@hotmail.com), October 09, 1999.