I am not one who generally starts threads but I read and absorb what the rest of you say. Since April, you've taught me enough about most things. I'm prepped to the gills and keep on prepping - it's compulsive behavior now. But my old house is not prepped.

I'm also armed, for whatever good that will do. I'm a grandma, not a green beret. I have plenty of info on guns & shooting (experience too) and don't wish this thread to be used for gun talk. I live alone and am in the habit of sleeping for part of every night, so I would like this to be a "safe house" thread please.

I live on the corner of a busy street in a city of about 150,000, and own my home. It's not in the Yuppie district. Some of you know what city; please don't name it or ask me to identify it now. I'm staying here. I have been accumulating ideas and plans for months, and it is time to act upon what has been the most confusing to me and what I find the least do-able information about.

My first thought and plan is to replace a couple of old, flimsy storm doors and get a good storm window installed on my worst ground-level window, which doesn't have one, all with iron grills. Needless to say, that's big bucks (for me). The house has 3 outside doors: one good solid one in front with a tiny upper window, one not so solid (kitchen) that's half window - I think it should be replaced with a solid wood one - and a half-glass flimsy mess leading outside to a fenced back yard from an enclosed porch, which also should be replaced. My plan is to install the iron-grilled storm doors at the kitchen and back doors. Does this sound reasonable?

Then there is a row of 3 windows on that enclosed porch, which are only single storm windows, and look very insecure to me. All the other windows have storms. I have thought of using good heavy sticks to prop in each window, preventing anyone from being able to raise it. But that row of 3 in the back worries me a lot. Has anyone used or thought of a system of metal slide-in letter-L shaped pieces nailed to the window frames inside, to slide pieces of plywood into? I can picture it but I can't explain it very well. Like the old fashioned drop-bolt door bars? Does anyone have a better or easier idea for accomplishing the same thing - immoveable drop-in indoor shutters?

What happens if you nail a piece of plywood to an indoor window frame? Couldn't it break the window?

I have styrofoam sheets to fit these 3 windows so people can't see in, but of course that's all they're good for. I also have the bronze window film up on windows my cats get into so they can't be seen (thanks to advice from Old Git). The porch windows are major cat-territory, that's why they have to be blocked completely.

What else should I have thought of? Can any of you give me better ideas?

Then I think about battery alarms, and have been wavering back & forth over this. I want a battery alarm that sounds of a dog barking, but it doesn't sound very reliable to me. No, I'm not getting a real dog. We're all cats here. Might adopt one later after rollover if one comes around looking adoptable and I decide I need him and can feed him. Depends. Guess that's it.

Thanks a lot for any suggestions!

-- Scat (sgcatique@webtv.net), October 07, 1999

Answers

Your ideas for the security storm doors sound good to me. Those doors are not cheap, of course, but will be worth the expense if they deter intruders. One simple but effective addition to security is a couple of hooks and eyes on each storm door. These aren't particularly strong, but they will force an intruder to work a bit harder to force it open

I think you could cover the entire window with plywood on the outside, using teflon-coated deck screws to hold the plywood in place. You will have the holes when you remove the plywood, but they would be fairly small and easily filled with latex caulk. It is better not to do much hammering around your windows. Do any attaching with screws, but make sure they are long enough to get a good grip on the surrounding wood. Also, use plywood at least 1/2" thick, if possible.

It sounds to me like your place should pretty secure with the changes you have in mind.

good luck.

Gene

-- gene (ekbaker@essex1.com), October 07, 1999.

We are having 3M window protection put on in 2 weeks. Makes the windows very hard to break. Their video showed a man with a hammer pounding on the window and not breaking it. Hopefully this will at least give us warning if anyone tries to come through the windows. The doors to the outside are metal reinforced by Ruger 9mm. Sorry but thats the best we could do.

-- Mr. Pinochle (pinochledd@aol.com), October 08, 1999.

Scat,

As you know, we are in the city a ways north of you and pretty much intend to stay put. Our doors are all pretty solid, but... So we came up with the idea of fitting them with an old fashioned drop-bar type of thing inside. Kinda like on "Little House". My husband got the hardware together and marked the holes on the walls so they can be installed in about 15 minutes. Later, when we're ready to remove them, it will take a small amount of cosmetic work to fix the walls. In your city, on a busy corner, at your age (no slur intended) security storm doors are a really good idea regardless of y2k.

-- lvz (lvzinser@hotmail.com), October 08, 1999.

Scat, I have purchased several different sizes water guns and pistols. Even real small ones that fit in your pocket. I will add some Tabasco Sauce in the water for Y2K!!!

-- bbb (bbb@bbb.com), October 08, 1999.

Scat,

An easy way to secure your windows, while still allowing for them to be open, when needed, is to drill a hole the size of a nail (10d or larger)in the top sash, just above the bottom sash. Stick the nail in, to lock - remove to open. You can also drill the hole so that the bottom sash can slide up just a little (in case things are still ugly next summer), for ventilation, without compromising your security.

Two thoughts about plywood on the window - If I were a goblin out to score some "instant preps", nothing would scream, "Hey! A prepper lives here!" louder than bare plywood barricading a window. Take an old pair of curtains and cover the plywood, so it appears to be just window dressing.

The other thought is that if you have any south facing windows that get a lot of sun, you'll want the plywood to be easily removed (from the inside only, of course), so you can take advantage of solar heating. This would be a good place to use the drop bar lock that you were discussing for you porch windows.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), October 08, 1999.

One of the sights that most impressed me about a trip to San Francisco was the use of decorative wrought iron window screens on the houses. I was struck by how pretty some of them were, with cypress trees and flowers, etc. and how they also gave a relatively unimpeded field of view.

Are you absolutely certain that no vehicle-even a 4WD can get close to or crash into your house? The White farmers in Rhodesia were fond of angled planters at the corners of their homes and especially in front of the sleeping area(s).

How are your preps for fire(as in flame and smoke) supression? Can you move about in your house in total darkness-in a hurry? Are there impediments to an intruder? Like a door that could be locked quickly? Got a safe room, with a stock of food and water and communications? How about a second (or third) way out of your house?

-- chairborne commando (what-me-worry@armageddon.com), October 08, 1999.

Mr. Pinochle: Can you give us more info on the 3M window treatment? Like, how expensive is it? I tried to do research on that stuff, but couldn't find much info.

-- Pearlie Sweetcake (storestuff@home.now), October 08, 1999.

All the comments on physical security aside, your best armor is to surround your house with cooperating neighbors. I didn't see anything in your post regarding their preps. Any GI's? Any chance of making them GI? Are your preps so far ahead of theirs that you'd be a target? If not, think in terms of consolidating the neighborhood when the first real troubles start. That is, who are the leaders, where are the safest locations, how easy would it be to get them to pull together, etc.

No single house can be held against determined force. No single person can withstand a crowd of peers. You gotta sleep sometime.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), October 08, 1999.

Thanks for all the good ideas so far.

lvz, yes, drop bars - that's what I want, so now I know there is hardware available to accomplish that for doors.

Sash-nail window "lock" - easier than poles. I'll add the hooks and eyes to the new storm doors too.

Bokonon, what you said was also my thought - calling attention to the house by barricading windows outside just seems foolish to me - I want all obvious barricades inside behind drapes, and some need to be moveable for ventilation. It also seems to me that if I can screw plywood on outside, anyone with a screwdriver can take it down just as easily and pretty quietly.

chairborne, I have 3 outside doors and can escape to the outside from any room in the house except the den - have fire extinguishers. A locking door and storm from the rest of the house to enclosed porch means a breakin to the porch necessitates a second breakin to get into the house, so that's a lot of racket if I do well with prepping the back.

Nothing works well for a "safe room", however - I've considered and dismissed every possibility including under the house - inside access to it from the den, relatively clean, dry and roomy - but I could easily be trapped. So I have to work hard on "safe house"

Yes, a vehicle could easily crash into my house - you had to bring that up! :-) It's a solid old house; I don't think the driver would be in any shape to hurt me if he did.

Thanks everyone - any other ideas are welcome. Knew I could count on you.

-- Scat (sgcatique@webtv.net), October 08, 1999.

bw,

Far as I know, I have no cooperating neighbors. NO chance of me talking to any of them, sorry. I have no suicide wish. I've prepped in silence knowing what a target I am, expecting a low profile should protect me . If we get to the point where it won't, I may have been feeding my next door neighbor's 2 toddlers for a while by then and have an ally there. I look for no others. Yet.

-- Scat (sgcatique@webtv.net), October 08, 1999.

Scat,

Ok, can you do a fallback plan? Got any family or friends that would be a refuge in a pinch? Do they GI or can they be awakened in time? Can you "preposition strategic reserves" (what we used to call stockpiling) food and your personal supplies (clothes, etc) at their house, so that you wouldn't just be a moocher if you showed up?

Have you done a Bugout Bag? There are lots of lists for possible contents. The last thing you want to be is a refugee, but if it comes to that, the VERY last thing you want to be is a refugee without a Bugout Bag.

What if all your preps are invested in your house and it burns? Remember, your DGI neighbors are suddenly going to be lighting fires to warm themselves in a few months, even if they never used their fireplaces before. It might not be a mob that forces you out, just an idiot.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), October 08, 1999.

I am paying between $7 and $8 a square foot. Total of $1,516. Going on the credit card but I will feel a lot safer. Plus we live in a hurricane area so there will be other benefits.

-- Mr. Pinochle (pinochledd@aol.com), October 08, 1999.

bw,

Thanks for your thoughts. I've agonized over backup plans for months & have never come up with a workable one. Don't think I will. I'm relatively new to this city - my move preceded my discovery of Y2K by a few months. Friends I trust are too far. My grown kids are 6 hours away. That's why I decided I stay here and get through it in my home. I'm rabidly protective of my home, because it's all I have to show for nearly 60 years of life. Even more protective of my cats (and have been flamed a lot for it - but that's just how I am). Here we stay.

Yes, I'm working on a bugout bag - meaning I have all the stuff on my list but still have to "bag" it. I've said before that fire is the only thing that will get me out of here & that's certainly a legitimate concern, but not one I have any control over. If the worst comes, I deal with it. Always have. I think what you said is correct - there is probably more chance of an idiot causing the "worst" than a mob. But I am so weary of fear and sleepless nights over what I can't control, that I have to put my energy now into things I CAN control, like "fortressing" my home. I take full responsibility for trusting my life to the Lord and the preps I make right here.

Now. Anyone have any thoughts about battery security alarms that hang on doorknobs or screw to window frames? I've seen and considered several, including the aforementioned "barking dog" alarm - do any of you have things like this, or do you consider them a waste of money? Why, or why not?

Do you think covering the glass part of doors with duct tape would provide any real deterent to breakage from the outside?

Thank you all; please keep talking to me.

-- Scat (sgcatique@webtv.net), October 08, 1999.

Scat, I've been involved in crime prevention for some years now. The major deterrents to break-ins are visible barriers. Your wrought-iron doors are an excellent example. Seeing those, the bad guys will move on to an easier target. You might also join the NRA and put stickers on all doors and vulnerable windows. Use cut-to-length closet poles to jam your sash windows--another visible precaution. These are all methods currently used by people to make their house less vulnerable to burglars. Good idea to disguise the not-so-common precautions.

You can do a lot with landscaping too. Check out fall sales on prickly shrubs--holly, shrub or climbing rose, even prickly pear cactus. Of course, you have to consider the location and make sure there's enough light and sun. There's not much time to grow stuff so try to buy large sizes.

One last thought--the GIs in Viet Nam used to make burglar alarms out of beer cans with rocks in them strung on trip wire. If it's quiet enough, you might be able to hear someone before they even get near the house. I'd use fishing line for stringing. Actually, the cats should warn you about an intruder on the property--mine do.

Oh--the dog recording. I remember reading they weren't very realistic, so be sure to try before you buy. Maybe a friend has a large dog who would growl and bark into a battery-operated tape recorder for you. . .

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), October 08, 1999.

for the 'vehicle-attack" scenario, consider large rocks. A guy i knew was drunk and crashed into a boulder in my front yard back in 93. he was in the "whoompty mobile" a very large mid 80's luxury car. ( I think a caddy or a pontiac, Ican't remember) anyway, after ping-ponging off the rock and a nearby tree the car was broken in half. a few big rocks on the approaches to your yard would be cool. But, don't forget that people may try to hide behind them & snipe at your house, make sure you can get a line of firew behind the rocks, or booby trap the spot directly behind them. A board buried just under the earth with a few rusty nails pointed up should do it. Just be sure to doi it at night, and not to do it if little kids might be playing on the rocks, of course.

-- jeremiah (braponspdetroit@hotmail.com), October 09, 1999.

Scat,

You say no dogs, 'cause you're all cats there. How about some bigger cats? A one to two year old cougar (or mountain lion, depending on where you're from) would do nicely!

Just trying to inject a (little) humor in a serious situation - sometimes it gets us to start thinking "out of the box".

e.m.

-- Eyell Makedo (make_do@hotmail.com), October 09, 1999.

Scat,

I bought two personal security alarms.The name of the product is Body Alert.It can be used for hanging on your door knob,the clip part goes between the door and door frame,also can be used for the windows.I tried it out,believe me it is very loud(120+Db siren).I'm glad I bought them.About your possible bug out plans,you may want to have cardboard boxs with holes in them for your cats and their bug out bag with food,bowls and a gallon of water to take along.I also have cats. .

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), October 09, 1999.

Maggie,

Thanks for the rec on the Body Alert - there are so many kinds of alarms, it's hard to judge without being able to pre-test one. Where did you buy them?

As for my cats, their bugout bag is probably more complete than mine & I'll have water & litter box in the car. I have plastic kennel carriers for them.

em,

That really is thinking "outside the box"! Not possible of course, but I can't help liking the vision it conjures up. Thanks for the smile.

-- Scat (sgcatique@webtv.net), October 09, 1999.

Thanks, Old Git -

Your knowledge of the effectiveness of things I'm doing is most valuable to me. That really helps.

I've thought for a long time about "barking dog" recordings & looked high & low for them - was very hesitant to mention such a thing here but it's too late to care if I get laughed at. I like your idea better; seems to me the canned barks going off when a doorknob is jiggled would sound too phony but a cassette tape I could control would not. My daughter has a loud dog - well trained, but sure can make noise if she lets him. I have a small Christmas present to request from her!

-- Scat (sgcatique@wetv.net), October 09, 1999.

Scat...not sure why not a dog but...

When prisoners (breaking and entering variety) were interviewed, they revealed that a dog was more of a deterrent than the most sophisticated alarm systems.

We know for a fact (overheard from behind a fence) that the reason a local gang avoided our place (when we lived in the San Fernando Valley) was our large dog. They were afraid of her.

You should allow yourself time to bond with a dog and it with you. Then that dog will place itself between you and danger.

Some breeds are excellent with cats. Our dogs (6) and our cat are crazy about each other.

A dog is one of the very best early warning systems for many scenarios.

Best wishes!

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), October 09, 1999.

Scat,

I bought the Body Alert alarms from Home Shopping,a TV shopping channel.I have bought alot of things from them,they have a 30 day return policy which is good if you want to return an item.Call and ask them to look up the brand name or alarms,they should be able to get the info for you.

In regards to house protection,I am going to get a door stopper.I don't know the name of it but,it looks like a horse shoe facing up-- sitting on short post and made of metal.To use it,I will drill a small hole in the floor(inside the house) close to the door and insert the post,like at night when I go to bed and easily remove it when I get up.I don't think anyone would be able to kick in the door with it there.In regards to a door with a window in it,someone could brake the glass and open the lock but,with this door stopper they couln't reach it.I think it is made by the same company that makes the metal anti-theft bar that goes across a cars stearing wheel.

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), October 09, 1999.

Scat, I just received my alarm from www.pepperspraystore.com, based in Yakima, WA. Haven't installed it yet, am awaiting a GI friend's husband's help to mount on wall. And don't want to try out a loud alarm without someone else here to help open door and me disarm it, so it won't disturb my condo neighbors too long.

This type alarm was featured on Karen Anderson's Y2K site, and she said one could get it for "only" $149 or $159 (?) by mentioning Y2K Women. However, I kept searching, since cash is hard for me to come by, and found this website and firm. They have all sort of alarms, but the one I wanted and Karen featured works thus and seems the most ideal for deterring anyone entering my home:

"The MEDSECURE house alarm is a highly developed volumeetric intruder alarm. It detects minute changes in air pressure, speed and mass which activate the siren when a door or window is forced. Although it can hear around corners and through closed doors, it is not activated by cat flaps, noise, or internal movement. The alarm resets itself automatically each time it has been activated. It has a built-in adjustable sensitivity screw called potentiometer which you will be able to set to your specific needs during initial installation." Et cetera.

This alarm is reputed to be very loud. It also operates on either electricity or battery, so it is useful without using up batteries while one has power. For me, this is ideal, and means I may be able to get some sleep if we are in a blackout situation and I cannot stay up 24 hrs. a day. (My situation is similar to yours, including two cats!)

Good luck, and may God bless us all in the uncertain days ahead.

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), October 10, 1999.

Maggie, I have that door stopper you describe...have used it for over four years, since moving into a condo alone, and it gives me a lot of peace of mind at night (now if I only felt that way about my windows and patio sliding door to the balcony!) I got mine at Lowe's Hardware. I've seen them in a health product catalog that comes here every couple of months. Hope this helps.

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), October 10, 1999.

Elaine,

Thanks for the info on the door stopper.A possible solution for your slidding door--there is a product on the market that is a metal bar which swings down to stop the slider door from opening and swings back into place when not in use,a broom handle will do also.When your slider door is closed,you can drill a small hole in the frame(that the door goes into)and the door and place a large nail into.I hope that helps.

The Body Alert alarms were two for under $20.00,with batteries.

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), October 10, 1999.

Elaine and Maggie -

Thank you both for the info on the alarms and door stopper. I'm still working on all of this but made good progress this weekend. Could only afford one storm door; the iron grilled ones cost more than I expected - most things do. But I got the hardware and slide-in boards for all doors on the inside.

The row of 3 windowless old storms in back on the enclosed porch are my major concern now. I'm told I can get iron bars by themselves and have them screwed in outside these windows with the screws set in a cement so they can't be removed. If I can only find them, that sounds pretty good to me.

I do thank all of you so much. You've no idea how much you helped me this weekend - or how many hours I spent in Lowes! They are very patient there with weird old ladies.

-- Scat (sgcatique@webtv.net), October 10, 1999.

re: sliding doors and windows. Yes, the bar to keep the door/window from being slid back is OK...but it's not enough. It's relatively simple for an intruder to slide a wire through the gap and flip your bar out of the track. To prevent that, put a screw or nail in the end/center of your bar, and insert it into a matching hole in the slider.

In addition, you need to realize that an intruder can usually apply palm pressure to the outside of your slider and force it up and out of its track...whether or not you have a bar in place. So you need to install something in the top channel to prevent the slider from being lifted up. Depending on the configuration of your slider, even a screw or two might do the job; otherwise, you may have to screw a wood plug up there.

Good luck with your preps; sounds like you've thought it out pretty well.

-- Norm Harrold (nharrold@tymewyse.com), October 11, 1999.

Thanks for the advice on the sliding doors. I did the screw in the top and broom handle in the door (johnny-bar didn't work!) when I moved in in '95. But need to do it on three sliding windows now.

As to the bar referred to, however, it is the one which looks like a stirrup on a pole, and which is used on a regular door. The stirrup-part goes under the doorknob, then the pole (which has a rubber stand at bottom) is pushed firmly so that the stirrup holds the knob tightly. This prevents the door from being pushed in, should the intruder get beyond the locks. It is advertised as being good to take to hotels also.

Scat, I forgot to say that the alarm I bought was HALF what it was advertised for on Y2K Women...I only paid $69.95!

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), October 11, 1999.

I know someone in law enforcement in crime prevention section here in NC and they said that the first thing that you may want to do is go outside your house and look for anything that was blocking the house and giving someone a place to hide while they broke into your house. Overgrown bushes gives people a place to duck out of site. Make your house look harder to hide around, and most people will look for an easier place to break into.

Also if you have a solid door now look at the latch plate. You can add a lot of protection to a solid door by simply taking out the short screws in the latch plate and replacing them with 2 1/2 and 3 inch screws. This ties into a main frame of the house, and makes the door hard to kick in.

Hope this may be of a little help to you.

-- Beth Craig (craig@icu2.net), October 11, 1999.

Beth, Thanks for that additional tip about the latch plate.

This has grown so long, I've forgotten what replies I've made to whom, but I learned some other things this weekend besides what is here, which I wanted to report.

Apparently iron grilled storm windows are impossible to be had. But in calling several storm window companies and a couple decorative iron-work companies (who don't want small jobs) I found one that will install iron bars over the whole large window for $50 to $70 - much cheaper than a storm. I learned that Sutherlands has better iron-grill storm doors than a major retailer that installs theirs, (I don't want to get in trouble. Think Wards. No. It's the other one.) for 1/3 the price but I have to find someone I can hire with a truck to pick it up & install it for me. I figure I can get all my worry-points taken care of for what that one fancy storm door the major retailer condescended to backorder for me would have cost.

At Lowe's I found tough steel oversized cabinet-handle looking things (tall, skinny letter C) that will screw securely to the studs nearest the door frames inside and a 2X4 cut to length can be slid into like a drop-in bar. (I thought drop-in could too easily be lifted out if the door glass was broken.) Two things to remember: enough sliding space on one side to slide them in (except for having to move a shelf unit, I got lucky there), and remembering if all your doors are not the same width when you get the boards cut. Like I didn't. Will have to get another board. This apparatus looks & sounds very secure to me!

This whole thread is wonderful contributions from all of you. If any of us don't have secure doors after this, we're hopeless. Elaine and I and possibly other "vintage" ladies here can do these things by ourselves - and it's so good to find out so much that we can do. I feel empowered.

Thanks, I needed that.

-- Scat (sgcatique@webtv.net), October 11, 1999.

Thinking about home defense last Spring, I remembered the Boy Scout Motto (: fortunatly I don't spell good :) "BEE Prepared".

I bought a hobbiest kit for a bee hive and intend to prop it up against the door on a rickety nightstand when the trouble starts. The average looter/rapist/canible will run from ONE bee. Sixty THOUSAND pissed off suddenly homeless bees should even the odds a bit. Most likley they'll drop their guns & run screaming into the night.

To add to the confusion I will have a 150+dB bicycle "air horn" rigged to go off when the hive hits the floor. They can hold their ears or play slap-and-tickle with the bees.

One of the other things I intend to do is drill holes into the treds of the stairs leading up to the second floor redoubt/bedroom area. When the trouble starts I will drop smaller diameter nails, point up, into the holes. If the intruder panics for some reason (see above) and runs up the stairs, the nail will enter their shoes and come up out of the hole as they lift their foot, then, as they step down with the next step, be driven all the way into the foot.

If you want to reinforce doors don't forget wooden shipping pallets can be lain down on the floor in front of a door and "pinned" to the floor with nails dropped into pre-drilled holes (point down).

Someone mentioned www.pepperspraystore.com. Reminds me that one of my fallback plans involves a couple of "soaker" water pistols filled with amonia and chili oil.

-- Dennis Law (PaulLaw@aol.com), October 12, 1999.

Oh, Dennis, I am ROTFLMAO....your description of the beehive idea is absolutely wonderful! The visual it conjures is SO funny...reminds me of the sort of things the Little Kid did in the movie "Home Alone" to deter the robbers. I've read on this and other survival forums various ideas for home security, but yours are all surely the most ingenious, amusing, original I've seen. If the moderators ever give out prizes for originality, you have my vote! :-) :-) :-)

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), October 12, 1999.

you can get a volumetric alarm a heck of alot cheaper on the net. i have seen them for as little as $65.

-- tt (cuddluppy@yahoo.com), October 13, 1999.

also, i had the police come out and do a security assessment of my home. it was really helpful and they were the ones that actually "recommended" a gun!!!

-- tt (cuddluppy@yahoo.com), October 13, 1999.

Elaine- Never saw "Home Alone" but did watch a lot of "McGuiver" and even and even an occasional A-Team (Favorite character: "Howling Mad" Murdoc; Favorite phrase: "I love it when a plan comes together!")

-- Dennis Law (PaulLaw@aol.com), October 19, 1999.