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Saaaay, waaaat a minute. 86 Days to go, 2,081 Hours and they're talking about reworking production jobs? Some shops have tens of thousands of jobs.
On Wed, 6 Oct 1999 04:00:35, mycroft@DALLAS.NET (Russell Witt) wrote:
> I would like to get a feel from those on the board as to how many clients
> still use work-tapes with RETPD=0 specified; and expect those tapes to be
> left in scratch status to be re-used in a later step/job with a different
> dataset name? Because of the way that RETPD is handled with regard to
> December 31st, 1999; these tapes will NOT be work-tapes and will NOT be left
> in scratch status but will instead be given an expiration date of January
> 1st, 2000. I know of one site that is having to re-work their production
> process, since they are based on the concept of work-tapes being left in
> scratch status. Since that will not happen on December 31st, 1999; will this
> impact other clients? Or is the use of work-tapes fairly obsolete with
> robotics and all?
>
> Russell Witt
Does this sound last minute to you? Shouldn't this discussion have happened in October 1997 or 1998?
By the by, -bksie-, Dallas is probably in the U.S. Unless there is a Dallas, Romania or Dallas, Ukraine.
But hey, what do I know? I've been hyping the problem for years. De-bunk-housers say I'm clueless. Big brains in the De-bunk-house. Please, De-bunk-housers, don't waste your time with me. Tell Russ here the answer to his question.
There were some 0Cx Y2K abends cited in other threads, go on,
De-bunk-housers, go read the dumps and fix the mainframe systems, you have, oh, 2 or 3 hours. Ample time while the management SCREAMS for their stock options.
Strangely, the production mainframers are making noises like the WRPs from 2 years ago and they're getting more frantic each day.
Any guesses as to the level of tension in mainframeland at Y2K minus 5 days? How much SCREAMING will there be if they've gone from no discussion to this in a month?
In part two of this thread, someone asks what kind of OS is this and suggests that it's a VSE (a smaller and less capable OS than MVS). Russ replies that it's MVS, albeit a little back level.
Go on De-bunkies
Go on to mainframe land
Tell the old dinosaurs
what big brains you have
The rest of you. I recommend the 8 pack of Eveready Alkaline D-cells, two 3 cell Target flashlights and a two cell flashlight. Run one 3-cell with a Krypton bulb and one with a White LED bulb. Put a red LED in the two cell.
The White LED is your forever light, well, almost. The red LED light conserves your night vision. Use the Krypton light sparingly. It will suck the Alkaline cells down in one night.
cory hamasaki http://www.kiyoinc.com/current.html
86 Days, 2,080 Hours.
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-- a (a@a.a), October 06, 1999
Answers
First, just want to know if these are the guys with two good
synapses to rub together, or the one's without?
-- Hoffmeister (hoff_meister@my-deja.com), October 06, 1999.
Wow, Hoff. A devastating critique.
-- Prometheus (fire@for.man), October 06, 1999.
Hoff is nothing but a troll...
-- owl (w@a.com), October 06, 1999.
There is already a reply on the thread. By the way I don't have a
clue as to if this is good info or bad info. Or what the hell they
are talking about. Way, way out of my field. But on the other hand
Corey doesn't seem to have a clue as to how the grid works. Robots?
What his post has to do with getting flashlights is beyond me. Not
to say you shouldn't have them. I have several, and check the
batteries the first day of winter every year. But I can't see the
connection between what he wrote and getting flashlights.
If anyone here can explain the connection to what he wrote and how
electricity gets to your house please let me know. Robots?
1999
Date: 1999/10/06
Author: Andy Kushner
Posting History
cory hamasaki wrote in message
news:7kepWhCNP4qd-pn2-qvFh2c9bVBMq@localhost...
> Saaaay, waaaat a minute. 86 Days to go, 2,081 Hours and they're
talking
> about reworking production jobs? Some shops have tens of thousands
of
> jobs.
>
> On Wed, 6 Oct 1999 04:00:35, mycroft@DALLAS.NET (Russell Witt)
wrote:
>
> > I would like to get a feel from those on the board as to how many
clients
> > still use work-tapes with RETPD=0 specified; and expect those
tapes to
be
> > left in scratch status to be re-used in a later step/job with a
different
> > dataset name? Because of the way that RETPD is handled with
regard to
> > December 31st, 1999; these tapes will NOT be work-tapes and will
NOT be
left
> > in scratch status but will instead be given an expiration date of
January
> > 1st, 2000. I know of one site that is having to re-work their
production
> > process, since they are based on the concept of work-tapes being
left in
> > scratch status. Since that will not happen on December 31st,
1999; will
this
> > impact other clients? Or is the use of work-tapes fairly obsolete
with
> > robotics and all?
> >
> > Russell Witt
>
> Does this sound last minute to you? Shouldn't this discussion have
> happened in October 1997 or 1998?
I believe all this will cause is for the tape
to be kicked down and a new scratch mount will
be issued. For shops with robots, it will be
done automatically.
The fact that the workaround for EXPDT=99365
causes the RETPD=0 setting to not allow
a tape to be used as scratch for a day
come 12/31/99 is a nit. I would guess
that a really big shop may need to have a 100
or so extra scratch tapes that day. On a scale
of 1 to 10, this is a 0.5 problem.
BTW, while a shop may have "tens of
thousands of jobs", I suspect that jobs within
a shop having the above conditions are a small
percentage.
Andy Kushner
-- The Engineer (The Engineer@tech.com), October 06, 1999.
"If anyone here can explain the connection to what he wrote and how
electricity gets to your house please let me know. Robots?"
Eng, his post has nothing to do with how your house gets
juiced.
Alzheimers?
-- lisa (lisa@work.now), October 06, 1999.
No Lisa, Old age maybe :-)
I was just noting that his final advice was to buy batteries and
flashlights. And why do you need those....? GI?
If not, my point was that whatever the original question was; somehow
it led to a collapse of The Grid (or you can read civilization or
whatever you want to read into it.) But the one thing had nothing to
do with the other. It was making a faux connection. Something that
seems dearly beloved when talking about Y2K.
Also notice that the person who replies to Corey's original post put
the problme way down on the scale. Way way down. But winter is
coming so I'd get the batteries anyway. Another faux connection is
the advice is good, even though the reasoning isn't.
-- The Engineer (The Engineer@tech. com), October 06, 1999.
The reference to robotics was to devices that automatically
mount and store tapes instead of human operators mounting and
storing the tapes.
Jerry
-- Jerry B (skeptic76@erols.com), October 06, 1999.
Eng -
As noted, those are "tape robots", which function entirely based on
accuracy of date stamps. Bogus dates = useless robots.
Place I once worked had a huge room full of tapes, and scores of folks
running around loading them based on job requests. Replaced by robots
and rooms re-configured.
-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), October 06, 1999.
And cory's "flashlight" comment was something of an insider comment,
methinks. Most of the folks on c.s.y2k have some history with cory, so
he can and does use "shorthand" in his postings. LEDs, tuna, bug-out
bags, .223 ammo: all shorthand for "get ready for tough times".
-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), October 06, 1999.
Mac's right.
I'm not a preppie, survivalist, kinda person. My specialty is large
systems.
I'm attempting to convey my concern about large systems. It's up to
each of us to assess our personal situation and create our own best
solution.
By the way, the tape story continues.
-- cory (kiyoinc@ibm.XOUT.net), October 06, 1999.
Hoff, interesting you ask about the competancy level to guage the
importance of the issue, I can understand that question. Problem is,
I'm making a guess here, that if the guys n gals finding these issues
now are not the sharpest knives in the drawer, you might tend to
discount the relevancy. But if they arent and thats why they are
having the probblem, then its less likely that they will be fast and
flexible on the fix, either, which makes it even more unsettling-
just a thought, cause I doubt theres gonna be much in the way of
available brilliant and unemployed IT cavalry to charge to the rescue
come Jan 3. Maybe a couple of dozen shops, but if its in the hundreds
like Cory seems to be implying?
Cory et al:
Been following these posts about the mainframe stuff getting
questioned now-but its way over my head. Im just a grunt ED nurse,
and bleeding people are more my line than bleeding IT systems. For
myself and the mainframe ignorant that are trying to comprehend just
what these particular signs mean, could you please dumb this down a
bit? I think you're implying its handwriting on the wall, but I cant
translate the language to English. Just what does this portend? What
do these systems control, what failures are we seeing foreshadowed by
this and how long would it actually take to fix/work around or get
systems back up if this stuff does go down? And, the really big
question I was hesitating to ask-are these the companies that are
already saying to the public that they are ready, and everybody but
the back room thinks so?
BTW, www.beprepared.com (standard disclaimers apply)has a lovely
solar battery recharger thats less than 20 bucks, does a quick job
juicing up the cheap rechargeables you can get in WalMArt, and Ive
used mine all summer to keep the kids GameBoys batteries charged.
Cheap and easy way to keep those LED's you like in juice if they use
standard sized batteries, a couple of packs of rechargeables might
make those brighter lights easier to run. I liked it so much, I got
2, one for back up.
-- LauraA (Laadedah@aol.com), October 06, 1999.
In short, the programmers (and operations staff) are expecting certain
tape reels to be used in a specific way. The expiration date implies
certain usage. BUT, the operating system will not treat the tapes in
the same way come December 31... Thus the carefully laid plans will be
disrupted. Not by a computer program, but just by some Job Control
Language (JCL) statements! It's a classic case of the devil is in the
details!
-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), October 06, 1999.
I'm a VSE guy, but doesn't RETPD also apply to DISK files, and if
so, does it act the same? If so, it could get real interesting...
Tick... Tock... <:00=
-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), October 06, 1999.
LauraA: Do you like to mudwrestle?
-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), October 06, 1999.
Sysman -
Yes, you are correct. RETPD was used for the old, removable 3330/3350
DASD packs long ago. Now, with SMS - no need to. RETPD is more commom
with tapes these days, for example I use it for my in-house backups
all the time with a RETPD=7 along with a DISP=(NEW,KEEP). With TMS
having a default of 5 days with (NEW,CATLG), that saves me having to
uncatalog/scratch TMS entries every night, AND I have a weeks supply
of backups. Yes, ya then gotta specify the UNIT and VOLSER, but what
the hey...backups are backups!
Of course, Cory is correct on one aspect. The TMS issue should've
been dealt with years ago. I understand IBM put out a PTF for the
EXPDT=99365 crisis-to-be. Tho I gotta admit, before it got fixed -
cycling the mainframe to 01/01/2000, running the TMS edit/vault and
watching the managers jaws all hit the ground as 20,000
tapes "magically" appeared on the scratch list was a Kodak moment to
be sure!
-- JCL Jockey (WeThrive@OnStress.com), October 07, 1999.
I may have missed a bit but I would like to remind folks that ofetn
times programmers, as they design job streams, tend to count on
specific data sets being in specific places, regardless what the
status of the media they are using is. for example, one job does a
sort to tape of an intermediate dataset, and the tape is marked as a
scratch tape, but NOT used again until another program later in the
job stream. THIS program HAPPENS to ned the data on the tape, in
the order it appears on the tape, and it appears in this order
NOWHERE ELSE. The way the job stream "happens to work out", the
scratch tape has NOT been used again, so they go ahead, access it as
a scratch tape, and read in the dataset.
Unless the date cataloging system says they can't HAVE that tape and
requires an OTHER scratch tape to be mounted.........
POOF there goes the data set...
POOF ther goes the WHOLE RUN....
This is a NON trivial problem that MIGHT be solved by a couple JCL
Jocks I used to know, but it IS going to make some folks improve
their command of the idiom.
Chuck, who has done some Operations, some job stream design......
-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), October 07, 1999.
KOS, I thought you'd never ask! : )
Never tried it.
-- LauraA (Laadedah@aol.com), October 07, 1999.
Here Laura...I'll stuff some words in Corys mouth. This is based on
reading his reports for the last 18 months.
Just
what does this portend?
As he's said, he doesn't know. It will be bad, don't know how bad.
What do these systems control,
Just about all large enterprises worldwide.
what failures are we seeing foreshadowed by this and how
long would it actually take to fix/work around or get systems back
up if this stuff does go down?
A lot longer than 2 or 3 hours.
And, the really big
question I was hesitating to ask-are these the companies that are
already saying to the public that they are ready,
and everybody but the back room thinks so?
Some have done a good job. Many, many others have not. They are
lying.
-- a (a@a.a), October 07, 1999.
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