The individual is the stronger; and will win. The state is a fiction sanctified by Hegel and his followers to control the individual.

Sooner or later people will wake up. First we have to dump the trap of right and left, this is a Hegelian trap to divide and control. The battle is not between right and left; it is between us and them

Above is what I thought really made this interview worth reading. A lot of us on this forum are in the above trap. Time to become free. Below is the full text. =======================================================

An interview with Antony C. Sutton, Researcher Emeritus By Kris Millegan 1999 Little Red Hen ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

Antony C. Sutton, 74, has been persecuted but never prosecuted for his research and subsequent publishing of his findings. His mainstream career was shattered by his devotion towards uncovering the truth. In 1968, his Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development was published by The Hoover Institute at Stanford University. Sutton showed how the Soviet state's technological and manufacturing base, which was then engaged in supplying the North Vietnamese the armaments and supplies to kill and wound American soldiers, was built by US firms and mostly paid for by the US taxpayers. From their largest steel and iron plant, to automobile manufacturing equipment, to precision ball-bearings and computers, basically the majority of the Soviet's large industrial enterprises had been built with the United States help or technical assistance.

Professor Richard Pipes, of Harvard, said in his book, Survival Is Not Enough: Soviet Realities and America's Future (Simon & Schuster; 1984) "In his three-volume detailed account of Soviet Purchases of Western Equipment and Technology . . . [Antony] Sutton comes to conclusions that are uncomfortable for many businessmen and economists. For this reason his work tends to be either dismissed out of hand as 'extreme' or, more often, simply ignored."

The report was too much and Sutton's career as a well-paid member of the academic establishment was under attack and he was told that he "would not survive".

His work led him to more questions than answers. "Why had the US built-up it's enemy? Why did the US build-up the Soviet Union, while we also transferred technology to Hitler's Germany? Why does Washington want to conceal these facts?"

Sutton, following his leads, proceeded to research and write his three outstanding books on Wall Street: and FDR; and the Rise of Hitler; and The Bolshevik Revolution.

Then, someone sent Antony a membership list of Skull and Bones and- "a picture jumped out". And what a picture! A multi generational foreign-based secret society with fingers in all kinds of pies and roots going back to 'Illuminati' influences in 1830's Germany.

And what a list of members, accomplishments and . . . skullduggery!

For the full story, check-out Sutton's book America's Secret Establishment, in print for 14 years and available from Liberty House Press, 1-800-343-6180. My short essay on The Order of Skull and Bones is available at http://www.parascope.com/articles/0997/skullbones.htm

Here, in a rare, recent e-mail interview, are Antony Sutton's own reflections and answers to questions from myself and other researchers

Pre-interview note from Antony Sutton:

Remember all my papers on this are in deep storage 1000 miles away and cannot be accessed and I've not even thought about S&B for 15 years. I had no idea that any interest had been aroused out there. I know the book is a steady seller from the royalty reports; but that is all.

For the last 10 years I have been in complete seclusion working on future technology... I'm more engineer than historian. The only visitors I've had or meetings have been with three-letter agency people, who arrive on the doorstep unannounced and complain I am hard to find. Big Brother has the ability apparently to find anyone.

Nothing mysterious about this, I just dislike publicity and social interaction. You will see from the Dutch TV episode that my work still upsets the "powers that be" so these are merely reasonable precautions.

KM - Can you tell the story of how you learned of Skull & Bones? And how you felt?

AS - I knew nothing of S&B until I received a letter in the early 80's asking if I would like to look at a genuine membership list. For no real reason I said yes. It was agreed to send the package by Federal Express and I could keep it for 24 hours, it had to be returned to the safe. It was a "black bag" job by a family member disgusted with their activities.

For the benefit of any S&B members who may read and doubt the statement; the membership list is in two volumes, black leather bound. Living members and deceased members in separate volumes. Very handsome books.

I spent all night in Kinko's, Santa Cruz , copied the entire volumes and returned within the 24 hour period.

I have never released any copies or identified the source. I figured each copy could be coded and enable S&B to trace the leak.

How did I feel? I felt then (as I do now} that these "prominent" men are really immature juveniles at heart. The horrible reality is that these little boys have been dominant in their influence in world affairs. No wonder we have wars and violence. Skull and Bones is the symbol of terrorist violence, pirates, the SS Deaths Head Division in WW Two, labels on poison bottles and so on.

I kept the stack of Xerox sheets for quite a while before I looked at them-when I did look-a picture jumped out, THIS was a significant part of the so called establishment. No wonder the world has problems!

KM - What is the percentage of active members?

AS - I haven't checked for 15 years...it used to be about one quarter. With the rise of the Bush dynasty it will increase somewhat, as they climb on the bandwagon. The Demos had their turn with Harriman in the 40's and 50's.

KM - How many active members are there?

AS - Usually about 600 alive at any one time . . . recently more active.

KM- What is your take on the grandfather clock that each member allegedly receives?

AS - They do get a clock I've had that confirmed and you will see it in the photos in ASE (America's Secret Establishment). Might be symbolic, perhaps to state their organization goes on timelessly.

KM - Has Skull and Bones lost its clout?

AS - Well look at the recent fund raiser for George Bush...Republicans are stuffing money into his pockets...I suggest members recently got behind one of their own and decided to push George all out for presidentand Democrats can't do a thing because Democrat Bones are not going to allow the Party to use the ultimate weaponGeorge's membership in a foreign secret society.

KM - What do you know of George ' W.' Bush?

AS - He is a third generation Bonesman. My personal impression is that he doesn't have the drive of his father or the skills of his grandfather.... but I could be very wrong. He can beat anyone hands down - except Ventura.

If Bush handlers allow a face to face debate between Bush and Ventura, Ventura will win. Remember Ventura has admitted to his so-called "sins". Bush has a closet full waiting to emerge. People are getting bored with cover ups and spin. 2000 may see the end of the Bones influence or - reality that these Bones people are powerful.

KM - Is the 'name' of the German group known?

AS - Almost certainly Illuminati.

KM - Some people say that there are other 'cells'; what do you think?

AS - There are many other secret societies. I've only looked at S&B. Unfortunately no historian will keep his job if he tries to explore conspiracy...this is taboo for the American Historical Association. Sooner or later outsiders will take a look. I've long thought that S&B fits the legal definition of a conspiracy and needs to be officially investigated.

Yes there should be other cells. No secret society worth anything is going to keep its inner actions written down on paper. If the gigantic electronic monitoring apparatus is for national security purposes; then it should be monitoring these people 24 hours a day.

KM - What are your thoughts on Wolf's Head? Scroll & Key? And the other Senior societies at Yale?

AS - Wolfs Head, Scroll and Key seem to be pale imitations of S&B, but they have the same objective of deliberately building discrimination into a society. I listened to Jesse Ventura last night and he made the point that the Founding Fathers intended for citizens to represent the people. I agree, a trucker, a farmer, a teacher-represents the people not a bunch of professional pols or a secret society like S&B. All these societies place their own members ahead of the pack and give preference to their own members; this is discrimination par excellence.

KM - Have you read Cathy O'Brian's book Tranceformation Of America? What do think of it?

AS - The book does not contain one piece of hard physical evidence.. I think Cathy O'Brien BELIEVES SHE IS TELLING THE TRUTH . . . but remember that Mark Phillips is A skilled neuro-linguistic-programmer.

Another point that really concerns me is this...where did this story originate? It originated in Communist Chinese Intelligence and Mark Phillips had a contractual relationship with the ChiComs. This could be an attempt to destabilize the US.

No doubt these Washington pols are fully capable of these weird practices, just look at Bohemian Grove but that doesn't mean that the book is an accurate portrayal. If the book is credible I would think the police would have raided Bohemian Grove long ago.

My best guess is that the Chinese picked up whispers of Washington scandals and blew them out of proportion for their own purposes. This is a GUESS...I don't know.

One thing that puzzled me, with all these sexual shenanigans how do Washington politicians find time to do anything else? According to the book this is a full time occupation for Senator Byrd and others.

KM - What did your study of elites, economics, secrecy and technology do for your career?

Depends what you mean by "career"? By conventional standards I am an abject failure. I've been thrown out of two major Universities (UCLA and Stanford), denied tenure at Cal State Los Angeles. Every time I write something, it appears to offend someone in the Establishment and they throw me to the wolves.

On the other hand I've written 26 books, published a couple of newsletters and so on...even more important I've never compromised on the truth And I don't quit.

In material terms...hopeless failure. In terms of discovery...I think I've been successful. Judge a man by his enemies. William Buckley called me a "jerk". Glenn Campbell, former Director of the Hoover Institution, Stanford called me "a problem".

KM - Do you believe that there has been suppression of technology? Has it been major or minor?

AS - Yes there has been suppression but its going to be impossible to suppress the new emerging paradigm.

KM - The Federal Reserve, the House of Morgan, House of Rothschild and Skull and Bones are they related?

AS - Best source for this is a book by me The Federal Reserve Conspiracy, 1995 CPA, PO Box 596, Boring OR 97007

KM- On Skull and Bone's influencing John Dewey and Horace Mann; are there good source materials to follow that story?

AS - Depends what you want to find. You could explore the 10 (?) volume works of Dewey...outrageous Hegelianism, the state is supreme, the individual merely a pawn to be trained. This is the basis of our 'educational system" ...or you could go and explore the members of S&B who brought the system to the US.

This trained "sausage mind" outlook has thoroughly permeated our universities that's why we have the peer review system...we are all supposed to think alike and find the same answers. This political correctness garbage is another step to total thought control.

KM - Did any of Hitler's economic policies threaten the interests of the international bankers, and if so did that play a role in his downfall?

AS - Hitler's economic policies were OK'd by the bankers right through the war...ITT, Chase, Texaco and others were operating in Nazi-held France as late as 1945. In fact Chase in Paris was trying to get Nazi accounts as late as 1944. When we got to Germany in May 1945, I remember seeing a (bombed-out) Woolworth store in Hamburg and thinking, "What's Woolworth doing in Nazi Germany?" While we were bombed and shelled it was "business as usual" for Big Business. Try the Alien Custodian Papers.

See my Best Enemy Money Can Buy for more.

Union Banking is very important. I made a documentary for Dutch National TV some years ago. It got all the way through the production process to the Dutch TV Guide...at the last minute it was pulled and another film substituted. This documentary has proof of Bush financing Hitler-documents. Maybe my Dutch friends will still get it viewed, but the apparatus reaches into Holland.

KM - What is the story that was going to be told on Dutch TV? And what is the story of it's censorship?

Couple of years back, a Dutch TV production company from Amsterdam- under contract to Dutch National TV-came to the US to make a documentary on S&B. They went to the Bones Temple and other places and interviewed people on East Coast. On the West Coast, they interviewed myself and one other person.

I saw extracts from the original and it is a good professional job. They had documents linking Bush family and other S&B members to financing Hitler through Union Banking of New York and its Dutch correspondent bank. More than I have in Wall Street and The Rise of Hitler.

The first version was later upgraded into a two part documentary and scheduled for showing this last March. It was pulled at last minute and has never been shown.

KM - Who has been financing Milosevic, and what role has the international banking community played in the Balkans?

AS - I haven't looked at this one. Of course the notorious Black Hand society is located in the Balkans. See WW One.

KM - What is the importance of your work on Skull and Bones?

AS - The potential is extraordinary. If we find that secret societies are indeed significant the entire history of the last two centuries will have to be re-written.

At this point in 1999, the potential has not been explored by others and I've moved back to my original interest-technology. Apparently people see some merit in the work. It is never advertised. It is an underground word of mouth distribution but has sold steadily from 1986 to date. Every month I get a royalty check, so I know it is selling. But my original enthusiastic statement has not been fulfilled.

KM - What do you see for the future?

AS - Chaos, confusion and ultimately a battle between the individual and the State.

The individual is the stronger; and will win. The state is a fiction sanctified by Hegel and his followers to control the individual.

Sooner or later people will wake up. First we have to dump the trap of right and left, this is a Hegelian trap to divide and control. The battle is not between right and left; it is between us and them.

The message is getting through. ASE has sold for 15 years, small but steady. No advertising. It's an underground work. But the breadth of interest is amazing. From Africa, to Russia (12,000 copies), right, left...it cuts across all ethnic, political, social lines..

The spirit of God is within us as individuals. Skull & Bones represents death. It has no life spirit and pretends that the State "is the march of God on earth".

The thinking of immature juveniles, deadly and destructive and has almost totally infected Washington.

What to do? Find yourself and then go to work..... tell your friends and put out the message.

The answer is within you.

Antony Sutton, is the author of 26 books, many of which can be purchased on-line at Amazon or Barnes & Noble. Liberty House Press at 1-800-343-6180 has copies of America's Secret Establishment and Best Enemy Money Can Buy for sale.

---

Kris Millegan, is a radical; a singer-songwriter; and conspiracy theory researcher who may be reached at RoadsEnd@aol.com

-- Ed (ed@lizzardranch.com), October 01, 1999

Answers

Thanks. It's interesting. I ordered that other book on the Federal Reserve--The Creature from Jekyl Island--and look forward to reading it.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWAyne@aol.com), October 01, 1999.

Thanks Ed. I never did find anybody that believed Cathy O'Brian's story. Hard to fathom - but possible.

"The battle is not between right and left; it is between us and them".

Amen to that. We the People .vs. Them

-- Ray (shusters@montanasky.net), October 01, 1999.

A good article. This is why I'm not worried about a nuke attack from Russia, like BB and @ are ranting about. I think they fail to grasp the depth of the backroom politics.

Similarly, it's why I think Clinton haters are counter productive and are missing the point. We may have more to fear from Bush and his son for all we know. Bush Sr. bankrolled Hitler for God's sake.

"The battle is not between right and left; it is between us and them". Amen. And long live Jesse Ventura.

-- a (a@a.a), October 01, 1999.

Hi, Mara! Just cruising through these threads and recall your name from a reply to a post I made about a week ago about that book. Glad someone is motivated to learn more about the REAL TRUTH that is out there. This is the first I have heard of the S&B . There's always something to learn. I used to think the MASONS were the real rulers of the world. BTW, I first heard about "The Creature..." from CHUCK HARDER, who runs a short wave radio show 5 days a week. Used to be in north Florida on the Suwannee River(yes, the same one the song is named for). Chuck is a tell-it-like-it-is guy, who has also fearlessly exposed the truth. I personally have heard stories on his show IN 1995 that are only NOW being discussed in the press! Chuck went INTERNET about a year ago. I have been so busy, I haven't listened much, but his show is on REALPLAYER replay, as well as live. The web-site was http://www.forthepeople.org

-- profit-of_doom (doom@helltopay.ca), October 01, 1999.

"The battle is not between right and left, it's between us and them." I couldn't agree more. This is the statement that MANY of us have been attempting to make for months now. We must quit thinking of ourselves as members of a party and begin to acknowledge our roles as citizens of this country. Americans.

Unfortunately, our country has had a criminal in the Whitehouse for the past 7 years. He's NOT the only one, just the one with the most visible power in *OCTOBER 1999*. To say that those of us who despise him have been 'counter productive' in pointing this out, is in my view 'missing the point'. Why would one excuse a criminal caught in the act by reminding people that ALL criminals do that sort of thing? What's the big deal about THIS one? No offense 'a', but Ventura ain't sitting behind the Oval office desk, know what I mean? King Dong is. Ventura won't BE sitting behind that desk either. We're being TOLD every damn day who's gonna get the desk next, on TV and in our print media. THE VOTE IS DEAD AND HAS BEEN SINCE "MARKETING" BECAME KING AND "CONSUMERS" DUMBED DOWN. We're doing nothing more as citizens, than viewing the SHOW.

Clinton has done more to devide this country right down the center than any President since Lincoln. He's made some of our more notable 'criminal' leaders look like Eagle Scouts. The most terrifying aspect of Clinton's criminal mind is the fact that it will be in POWER during the most dire, world-wide crisis in history. Be afraid, be very afraid. Then......be prepared to take our country back, if need be. I'll guarantee Clinton has plans to keep it and I'm convinced he and his administration have played Y2K like a violin. Just how stupid IS this country's population anyway? Stupid enough to sit back and ignore the date. More than a sterling example, in my view.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), October 02, 1999.

Prophet of Doom,thanks for saying where I can find- For The People - on the net.I use to listen to it all the time,when I lived in California.

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), October 02, 1999.

Actually Ray, there is corroboration out there, in many forms, to Cathy O'Briens book.

Have you read "The Franklin Coverup" by Senator John DeCamp? Cathy references the goings on detailed in this book. Also take a look at the following websit, the mind control forum. Some intriguing information there. Makes Cathy's story even more believable.

http://morethanconquerors.simplenet.com/MCF/archv-hm.htm#Collections

-- OR (orwelliator@biosys.net), October 03, 1999.

Will said

"Clinton has done more to devide this country right down the center than any President since Lincoln."

Naw. We were just as divided when Bush was in office. That's why he lost the election, remember?

Clinton is within the standard deviation of notorius corrupt presidents - certainly not much worse, as you would have us believe.

The popularity of Clinton has a lot to do with the fact that people are fed up with the system - drag one candidate down only to have them replaced with a worse one.

-- a (a@a.a), October 03, 1999.

Good point 'a', but the vote was devided 'three' ways in '92 and '96. I believe the forceful influence of the Christain Coalition devided the conservative vote and will continue to devide it and keep the party fighting amongst themselves. Most unfortunate. Clinton's disgusting behaviour and agenda has actually united this party that has had difficulty agreeing in the past. He has devided the country in 'half'. Due to my age, I'm unable to recall any time in my life that this country has been as devided, since the war in Nam.

Please name another president with as many scandals and criminal tributes to his name. I believe we would need to lump several of them together to equal Clinton's record. One could argue that some of our previous presidents were simply never caught with their hand in the cookie jar, but in light of the fact that Clinton *has* been, that particular arguement would be juvenile in my opinion. "Bu-buuuuuuut heeeeee stole a cookie yessss-ter-daaaay!" It isn't even Clinton ALONE. Let's examine his entire administration as well as his circle of 'friends'. Larry Flint stepping up to the microphone along with Corpral Cue-Ball Carrrrrvelllle has been enough to make any patriot pull the blanket up over their heads and cry. Jesus-H-Christ........

I've always given Nixon alot of credit for stepping down with his cookie in tow, rather than dragging the entire country through the mud and giving the International community an opportunity to ridicule our country on the world stage. I suppose Clinton might have done the same thing if he had EVER had access to character or patriotism in his ENTIRE life. He simply is incapable of thinking about anything or anybody but HIMSELF.

That's grounds for a 'rope burn around the collar' in my political and patriotic view. Hard to get a noose around a piss-ant's neck, even harder to hang a worm. Therefore, on the long and winding road of Y2K, we can only hope he will become 'road kill'.

:)

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), October 03, 1999.