Saw this on CNN this morning. Police, looking for missing school supplies in an L.A. area school staff member's home, came accross several dozen firearms and over 50,000 rounds of ammunition. The weapons were immediately confiscated and the man "detained". Here's what bothers me.

CNN said there was no "apparent reason" for all of the weapons in the house. They were primarily rifles, assault weapons, and I saw two machine guns - a 30 cal M1919 and a 50 cal M2. These could have been legal, semi-auto versions. The bottom line is, there were no weapons displayed that were illegal to own (except for maybe a couple of SKS's, which CA has recently made illegal), there was no evidence that the man detained was prohibited from owning them, and, as far as I know, there are no legal limits on the number of bullets you can have in your house.

In other words, there was NO reason (that I could see or stated by the reporter) for impounding the weapons and arresting the owner. I would be interested to know if the man was preparing for Y2K. I know of people who have larger arsenals than this guy, and therefore, are they at risk of arrest and confiscation? The dramatic news footage of the cache of weapons must have been intended to show that this guy was some sort of terrorist wannabe and that the LA police are hard at work keeping your neighborhood safe from these kinds of wacko's. My take, on the other hand, is that this is a case of clear wrongful confiscation and arrest, and I doubt that man, even if he is never charged with any crime, will ever see any of those weapons and bullets again.

Moral of story? Keep your stuff hidden, out of sight, and split up so that you won't lose everything in one fell swoop.

If anyone has more info on this incident, I would be glad to hear it.

-- rob minor (rbminor@hotmail.com), September 30, 1999

Answers

Why not wait for a follow up. Seems he did have some illegal guns and the proper thing to do is confiscate them and determine if they are legal and were obtained legally.

You dont think they should have just walked away from this sort of thing, do you?

-- hamster (hamster@mycage.com), September 30, 1999.

Slightly OT-- I heard a radio newsbreak in CA the other day saying that gun sales are up thiry percent in the state this year; shotgun & rifle sales are up fifty percent. Can anyone confirm?

-- flora (***@__._), September 30, 1999.

The problem is that he will probably never see any of these things returned, even the legally obtained ones. The police will charge his property with a crime and never give him one ounce of compensation. Why not? They've been doing it for years on other property in the "War on Drugs."

I have no idea if this guy is a saint or a sinner. I only know that this is a very clear warning shot over our bows.

-- rob minor (rbminor@hotmail.com), September 30, 1999.

Yes, let's get some more information about this before making a lot of conclusions......

In any civilization, rights are not absolute. Obviously we don't want a society like communist Russia where people are being spied on continuously and harrassed. You'll never have a system where everyone can do what they bloody well feel like though. I wouldn't want to live next to some guy with 50,000 rounds of ammunition. It's certainly worth investigating WHY he has that much firepower. If nothing wrong is found, great......but I can see why they want to know what this guy is potentially up to.

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), September 30, 1999.

All SKS weapons with a detachable mag are illegal in California. Versions with the fixed mag are not. Just learned that over the last week because a friend of mine was looking to sell his Chinese with a fixed mag because he thought it was illegal (how much is this worth, btw?)

This was not wrongful confiscation and arrest. The guy had stolen school property on the premises and may well have been selling the stolen property to buy the weapons. Also, he may well have been selling some of the cheaper stuff to school kids. The investigation is ongoing.

Law enforcement went there at the request of the school district because it was known that this guy had "some" weapons.

He did have what are classified as "illegal" arms and law does still rule here in So Cal contrary to some belief. Also, it's unknown if many of the arms were actually legally owned. They may have also been stolen property as well.

Mike

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-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), September 30, 1999.

flora, I think that's very accurate.

Mike

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-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), September 30, 1999.

Craig.

I have not always been in agreement with your posts but you are a voice of reason on this subject. From what I have been able to read, this guy has been under surveillance for stolen school maintenance supplies and the cache of weapons and ammo was discovered during a search of his home. I saw a picture this morning of the various weapons and he could arm a small country with this collection. Yes, the whole shebang could be legal so lets step back at see what develops.

-- Truth (at@the.ready), September 30, 1999.

Craig and Truth,

Craig said: >I wouldn't want to live next to some guy with 50,000 rounds of ammunition.

That's your fear, and your problem: deal with it. The Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution states that we have the right to keep and bear arms. Period. The objection that the National Guard is the militia and bears our arms for us would be ridiculous if the lie weren't so widely believed. Every bit of evidence indicating the original intent of the framers shows that personal firearms protection, for personal defense, is not merely integral to our system of government, it is the very keystone of a free society. The peson in question may be a thief, or may have sold arms illegally. If that is the case, deal with that question. But when you pile on and vomit up your fear as if it were a valid argument against the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, you are being intellectually dishonest, and you underestimate the intelligence of the readers of this forum.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 30, 1999.

Just another step in the steamrolling of our liberties.

Notice that the steamrolling is all downhill from here, and will ultimately speed up in almost incomprehensible fashion.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), September 30, 1999.

Ok, how many .50 cal M2 machine guns have you seen that are semi- automatic only???? An M1919 is a BAR, and they are select fire. If it was an M1919 then is was NOT a legal weapon.

Sounds like this man had class III weapons and no class III FFL...

No issue IMHO, he should have been arrested....

watchin' the master clean his gun....

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), September 30, 1999.

the proper thing to do is confiscate them and determine if they are legal and were obtained legally.

Hey Hamster, Isn't this sort of `presumed guily until proven innocent`? I thought we did it the other way around in this country. Is it just me or does this sound a bit facist to anyone else?

-- thomas thatcher (jabawaki@erols.com), September 30, 1999.

"Seems he did have some illegal guns and the proper thing to do is confiscate them and determine if they are legal and were obtained legally. "

Well, Hamster, where'd you get that car you're driving? FOr that matter, why do you have all this cash in your house? Stored food, You must be a y2k nutcase.

I'd say the responsible thing to do is to confiscate it until you can prove it was aquired leagally. You don't expect us to just walk away from this, do you?

offsite storage offsirte storage offsite storage offsite storage

-- Forrest Covington (theforrest@mindspring.com), September 30, 1999.

There are companies that manufacture and sell semi-automatic M1919's and M2's. This is so a non-CL III licensee can own one of the "big guns." I've seen them at gun shows and advertised in the Shotgun News. They're perfectly legal, although I lump it in the same category as owning a Dodge Viper - a bit too much for me, but who am I to say what someone else likes? I have no idea if the machine guns shown on the news are indeed legal, or whether this guy was in violation of CL III license laws.

50,000 rds of ammunition is not all that hard to accumulate, especially if a lot of it is .22 ammo.

I agree with all of you who recommend waiting and seeing what they pin on this guy, if anything. I'm willing to bet that there will be no follow up on this story, mainly because they won't charge him with any firearms violations, but they'll keep the property. Just my humble opinion.

-- rob minor (rbminor@hotmail.com), September 30, 1999.

Liberty, I guess you would have no problem with your next door neighbor having 50,000 rounds of ammo lying around would you? The safety of your family, should a fire occur next door, would be secondary to your unrelenting protection of the second amendment at all costs. Do you even have a family? 60+ people lost their lives in Mexico this weekany lessons learned?

-- Truth (at@the.ready), September 30, 1999.

Around six months from now it might be a very good think indeed to be living next door to someone with 50,000 rounds of ammo, if he is y2k prepared (and chances are he is), though 100,000 rounds would be more comforting.

-- cody (cody@y2ksurvive.com), September 30, 1999.

After all we've learned about Waco, "Truth" is telling me that no one should be "allowed" to possess guns and ammo because of the danger of FIRE.

You are right that my life, and the lives of my beloved family, are secondary to the importance of the Second Amendment, which is, as George Washington put it, the "Liberty Teeth" of the whole American People. The members of my family would all lay down their lives for your freedom, and that of generations to come, in a heartbeat. Because we know that our freedoms were bought and paid for with the same sacrifice.

You USE FEAR in an attempt to separate Americans from their freedoms. The Globalist Liberals/Socialists use this same terror campaign, with a reckless disregard for the facts (more children - by thousands - die from avoidable drownings in buckets than from gunshots; crime ALWAYS goes up significantly when guns are confiscated, as we see with the 40% rise in Australian violent crime). But politics is about emotion, and not facts, and when you hysterically scream "our families are at risk!!!", cynically enlarging and exploiting every gun accident in your attempt to ban personal firearms, it does have an effect. But just remember: some of us are thinking. And we have guns. And we are NEVER going to give them up. If you keep f@(#ing with us and tinkering with the Constitution, you and your comrades are going to get burned, because The U.S. Constitution is not a malleable, "post-modern" "living document" that can be twisted to mean whatever relative truth you want it to mean; it is the document millions of fighting men have sworn an oath to protect and uphold. These are the people who have died for your right to fearfully whine about what your neighbor may or may not do in the privacy of his home.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 30, 1999.

Privacy my ass. I care too much for my family to happily permit a neighbor to store radioactive, extremely mutagenic, or explosive materials. I certainly hope there are laws prohibiting unsafe storage of overly large quantities of hazardous materials by homeowners.

I do not know if gunpowder or ammo would fall under these restrictions or if 50K rounds would pose a danger for neighbors. Are there any muzzle loaders out there? How about a good lawyer from the NRA? If anyone might know of such restrictions it should be you folks. What's the story? Facts rather than opinion would be welcome at this point.

Sincerely,

-- Uhmm.. (jfcp81a@prodigy.com), September 30, 1999.

One persons righs always infringe on the rights of anothers...

This guy was under investigation for stealing materials which were intended to be used by the school district to educate our children. The fact that he had a large cache of weapons was only discovered after authorities gained access to the property with a search warrant.

If this guy had the proper credentials to own the automatic weapons then I think discovery of this fact is a phone call away. Having this kind of access in L.A. County is very limited and I'm sure this is easy info for the authorities to come by.

It may well be that this guy was a not only guilty of stealing from kids but he may have been selling weapons, illegally, to kids.

Regarding the 5000 rounds of ammo...it wasn't 22lr or even 223, it was high caliber stuff and I think the "5000" was a little low.

Since this guy lived in pretty darn close to my front yard I'll try to keep you all posted regarding the FACTS. The story hasn't died yet.

I'm a supporter of the right to keep and bare arms but there are restrictions to that right such as if a person is a criminal. Then, that right is restricted. I don't have any problem with criminals having their rights restricted.

It is one guy like this, a theif who steals from the city and our children, who makes it difficult for someone like me to buy a weapon in California. His lawlessness directly affects the ability of someone like me to own a high-powered weapon. At the end of this year all AR-15s will be banned from sale in California to average people like me who stay within the law.

You're fighting for the rights of the wrong guy here.

MIke

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-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), September 30, 1999.

Amen. Long live Liberty.

sdb

-- S. David Bays (SDBAYS@prodigy.net), September 30, 1999.

Liberty, you are one raving lunatic. Your extremist views destroy the base values you so covet. The Constitution was not designed for out of control freaks like you. When will we read about you going over the edge and shooting up your neighborhood? Or are you just a cyber extrovert wannabe trying to paste some hair on your ass? Our forefathers locked idiots like you up in dark places and certainly would have kept you away from weapons of any kind.

-- Truth (at@the.ready), September 30, 1999.

Guess you kind of have to ask "Do you know your neighbors next door?" If you do, then you would know if they had X amount of rounds of ammo and what types of firearms, then you determine if you like that fact or not. Sure would be better if we knew our neighbors like they used to in the past. For me, know the neighbor next door and feel very secure and happy that they are well prepared to protect their household and mine and a few others around here. He's also pretty good at hunting would is an added benefit.

-- claurann (claurann@aol.com), September 30, 1999.

"Truth" -- You persist in your fascist rantings. Recall that the American Revolution was a revolution. It was a revolution against the ESTABLISHED power elite. King George would have loved to have been able to have the American peoples disarmed. As it was, the REBELS had firepower EQUIVALENT to the government (ENGLISH) forces. If the Brits had had FULL AUTO WEAPONS, so would have had the colonial rebels.

You are either such a shill, or so clueless, or so stupid or ignorant (doesn't matter which) I'm going to ignore you as much as possible in the future.

-- A (A@AisA.com), September 30, 1999.

Looks like its time to go out and buy a few more thousand rounds!

-- Truth"s Next Door Neighbor (nextto at@ the.ready), September 30, 1999.

Ya gotta love it folks. I express concern over 50,000 rounds cookin off at my neighbors house, and bingoWaco and the American Revolution are associated. Im concerned about the guy next door having a massive weapons cache and bingoIm a fascist. I myself am well armed but should you two idiots (or is it one idiot?) ever start running amuck, I might re-think my supply levels.

-- Truth (at@the.ready), October 01, 1999.

Liberty & A = 2 idiots Liberty is A = 1 idiot

-- Truth (at@the.ready), October 01, 1999.

hey "Truth"

...or should I say Asshole? Don't you ever get tired of being an Asshole, Asshole? Who are you to worry about 'cookoffs' or 'outrageous' level of ammo storage? It's really easy to have that much ammo on hand if you buy it in lot-cases. (Especially if its .22 ammo) So...when the B.I.B. come to collect your shit...don't look to us for any support...especially if you're outta ammo!

-- Billy-Boy (Rakkasn@Yahoo.com), October 01, 1999.