are there any gun control advocates out there who know how to read? (doubtful)read this book if you can understand it

"unintended consequenses" written by j.ross

pull your head out of your asses and see the barrel of my shotgun pointing right between your eyes. me myself and i

-- me myself and i (memyselfandi@beentheredonethat.com), September 27, 1999

Answers

me,

i think i'll put my head back, thank you very much. it's much prettier than you, yourself and your silly little pop-gun.

mommy is calling. time for you to go beddie-bye.

.

-- corrine l (corrine@iwaynet.net), September 27, 1999.

The Parable of the Sheep

by Charles Riggs

Not so long ago and in a pasture too uncomfortably close to here, a flock of sheep lived and grazed. They were protected by a dog, who answered to the master, but despite his best efforts from time to time a nearby pack of wolves would prey upon the flock.

One day a group of sheep, bolder than the rest, met to discuss their dilemma. 'Our dog is good, and vigilant, but he is one and the wolves are many. The wolves he catches are not always killed, and the master judges and releases many to prey again upon us, for no reason we can understand. What can we do? We are sheep, but we do not wish to be food, too!'

One sheep spoke up, saying 'It is his teeth and claws that make the wolf so terrible to us. It is his nature to prey, and he would find any way to do it, but it is the tools he wields that make it possible. If we had such teeth, we could fight back, and stop this savagery.' The other sheep clamored in agreement, and they went together to the old bones of the dead wolves heaped in the corner of the pasture, and gathered fang and claw and made them into weapons.

That night, when the wolves came, the newly armed sheep sprang up with their weapons and struck at them, crying, 'Begone! We are not food!' and drove off the wolves, who were astonished. When did sheep become so bold and so dangerous to wolves? When did sheep grow teeth? It was unthinkable!

The next day, flush with victory and waving their weapons, they approached the flock to pronounce their discovery. But as they drew nigh, the flock huddled together and cried out, 'Baaaaaaaadddd! Baaaaaddd things! You have bad things! We are afraid! You are not sheep!'

The brave sheep stopped, amazed. 'But we are your brethren!' they cried. 'We are still sheep, but we do not wish to be food. See, our new teeth and claws protect us and have saved us from slaughter. They do not make us into wolves, they make us equal to the wolves, and safe from their viciousness!'

'Baaaaaaad!' cried the flock, 'the things are bad and will pervert you, and we fear them. You cannot bring them into the flock!' So the armed sheep resolved to conceal their weapons, for although they had no desire to panic the flock, they wished to remain in the fold. But they would not return to those nights of terror, waiting for the wolves to come.

In time, the wolves attacked less often and sought easier prey, for they had no stomach for fighting sheep who possessed tooth and claw even as they did. Not knowing which sheep had fangs and which did not, they came to leave sheep out of their diet almost completely except for the occasional raid, from which more than one wolf did not return.

Then came the day when, as the flock grazed beside the stream, one sheeps weapon slipped from the folds of her fleece, and the flock cried out in terror again, 'Baaaaaad! You still possess these evil things! We must ban you from our presence!'

And so they did. The great chief sheep and his council, encouraged by the words of their advisors, placed signs and totems at the edges of the pasture forbidding the presence of hidden weapons there. The armed sheep protested before the council, saying, 'It is our pasture, too, and we have never harmed you! When can you say we have caused you hurt? It is the wolves, not we, who prey upon you. We are still sheep, but we are not food!' But the flock drowned them out with cries of 'Baaaaaaddd! We will not hear your clever words! You and your things are evil and will harm us!'

Saddened by this rejection, the armed sheep moved off and spent their days on the edges of the flock, trying from time to time to speak with their brethren to convince them of the wisdom of having such teeth, but meeting with little success. They found it hard to talk to those who, upon hearing their words, would roll back their eyes and flee, crying 'Baaaaddd! Bad things!'

That night, the wolves happened upon the sheeps totems and signs, and said, 'Truly, these sheep are fools! They have told us they have no teeth! Brothers, let us feed!' And they set upon the flock, and horrible was the carnage in the midst of the fold. The dog fought like a demon, and often seemed to be in two places at once, but even he could not halt the slaughter.

It was only when the other sheep arrived with their weapons that the wolves fled, only to remain on the edge of the pasture and wait for the next time they could prey, for if the sheep were so foolish once, they would be so again. This they did, and do still.

In the morning, the armed sheep spoke to the flock, and said, 'See? If the wolves know you have no teeth, they will fall upon you. Why be prey? To be a sheep does not mean to be food for wolves!' But the flock cried out, more feebly for their voices were fewer, though with no less terror, 'Baaaaaaaad! These things are bad! If they were banished, the wolves would not harm us! Baaaaaaad!'

So they resolved to retain their weapons, but to conceal them from the flock; to endure their fear and loathing, and even to protect their brethren if the need arose, until the day the flock learned to understand that as long as there were wolves in the night, sheep would need teeth to repel them.

They would still be sheep, but they would not be food!

) 1997 Charles Riggs

(edit this message)

-- Jim (waiting@aol.com), September 27, 1999.

"Unintended Consequences" by John Ross. Can see reviews and order from http://www.amazon.com
Also good source of "unusual" books: http://www.loompanics.com
where you can also get Ross' book.

-- A (A@AisA.com), September 28, 1999.

I love it, when someone says, "Read this! Read that!" as if we all have all the time in the world. Yep...possible end of the world comin' and we all have time to just read, read, read.

How about a synopsis of the plot? what it's about? what point does it make?

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), September 28, 1999.

I love the above parable of the sheep!!! Bokonon, you are always so rational that I think you are feeling a bit testy because we are coming into the end game, or you wouldn't have written that way. I only began my preps after reading Ed's book on Y2K which I purchased on 5/1/99, and have been running frantically to catch up ever since, as well as helping others to do so. However, when it gets too late and I am too tired to do anything more, I still read...but only books pertinent to these perilous times. I am 3/4 of the way through the huge tome "Unintended Consequences" and find it to be very relevant to the times in which we are living and are about to experience.

Synopsis: the possible consequences of gun control in this nation. A must read.

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), September 28, 1999.

Bokonon and others re "read this" -- On http://www.amazon.com on the first screen, there is a "Search" window. You can enter a title, subject, or author. Select "book" from the pulldown. Click on "GO".

It is very fast, and you will get your hits. For most books you will get much more detail than would be appropriate in this forum. Publishers comments, reviewers comments, authors comments, readers comments. For "Unintended Consequences" there are several pages of comments.

-- A (A@AisA.com), September 28, 1999.

Elaine,

As much as I value my reputation for being rational, I have to fess up to having the occasional off day.

The reason this topic made me testy is because even though I've read mention of this book at least 2 dozen times, I don't even know so much as to whether it is a work of fiction, a political/philosophical treatise or a collection of Spam recipes.

I have a whole stack of books that I think would be good reads (Currently: "The Ordeal of Change" by Eric Hoffer), but until I find the time to write some half decent book reviews, explaining why I think they're good reads, I shy away from the subject.

I like reading things from different perspectives, than my own. I've read "Lucifer's Hammer" and several early Heinlein works and have the entire "Dune" series twice. I don't just read works by "touchy-feely" liberals, but before I read anything, I like to have some knowledge of what I'm getting into.

I just always get a little testy when anyone says "You must do this!" over and over, and never gives good reasons why.

A,

Yes, I missed your post before. Got irritated (for the above reasons) and jumped right to responce mode. Thanks for the link.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), September 28, 1999.

Hi, Bokonon! Guess I didn't give enough of a review to this very well-thought-out tome, but I'd give it a ***** rating. Here's a better review, I hope: It is actually the story of the gun culture in America, meaning an entry into a world of people who love a sport and an artifact the way that many love other sports and artifacts. It takes one inside the mind of persons striving for perfection in a real art/craft/science all at once. As it does so, it interweaves the story of the US Government consistently and relentlessly taking one after another of the rights of these law-abiding citizens from them/us, as well as many other infringements upon our Constitutional rights in various areas. It is leading to the inexorable climax alluded to in the title. For me, it has been a read in history, government at its worst, a whole subculture that is fascinating (and gives me great comfort in knowing more about its strength!!!), and a frighteningly possible outcome. It is apropo to these sorry and scarey times. With the things you've written here, I believe you'd love the book and wish to shake the hand of the fearless author. I've read "Lucifer's Hammer" and "Patriot" this year, along with three other lesser-known authors' takes on apocalyptic times, but this is the very best of the best and puts the others far behind it. Next-best I'd rate as being "Patriot."

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), September 29, 1999.

Elaine,

Thank you. That was very thoughtful.

A little clarification, may be in order. By getting involved in this thread, I may have given the impression that I'm a strong gun control advocate. Actually, that's not the case. Guns are too much a part of our culture and history. Any attempt to remove them would be futile and a waste of money and resources. All that would happen is Joe Average, who never presented any kind of menace to begin with, would turn his/hers in, and criminals and terrorists would still find a way to gain access to firearms. Taking guns away from gun hobbyists would do nothing to lower the level of violence. The only "gun control" I favor, are waiting periods, so there's time to make sure the gun is not going into the hands of someone with an outstanding felony warrant.

Mabes and I actually discussed the possibility of getting a gun, and it's still not a completely dead issue. Our reservations are more about not having time to learn the proper use, in the time left, rather than any opposition to gun ownership. I feel pretty strongly, that if you pull a gun, you better be ready to use it AND you better be a pretty good shot, otherwise, having the gun will do more to put you in jepordy, than protect you.

The only reason I checked into this thread, was because of all the times I had heard mention of the book and I was curious. The thread title gave me hope that the thread initiator would give some insight as to what the book was about.

I probably will read the book, someday. From your review, and from the ones I read at Amazon, though, it doesn't sound like there's anything that I don't already have some degree of insight into. I already realize that "gun culture" is not composed entirely of under-educated genetic rejects and I already realize that those in the gun culture have a long list of what they feel to be legitimate greivances against the gov't.

To tell the truth, it sounds like, other than the juicy sex scenes, that reading the book would pretty much be a repeat of what I read on the board(G).

Again, though, thank you for the review.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), September 29, 1999.

The Lessons Of History The Soviet Union established gun control in 1929. From 1929 to 1953, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. Turkey established gun control in 1911. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. Germany established gun control in 1938. From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, mentally ill people, and other "mongrelized peoples," unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, 1 million "educated people", unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. 56 MILLION DEAD FOR WANT OF A METHOD TO DEFEND THEMSELVES EFFECTIVELY YET THERE ARE THOSE WHO INSIST "IT CAN'T HAPPEN HERE" " ... the world's great civilizations averaged a cycle of 200 years. Those societies progressed through this sequence: " From bondage to spiritual faith. " From spiritual faith to great courage. " From great courage to liberty. " From liberty to abundance. " From abundance to selfishness. " From selfishness to complacency. " From complacency to apathy. " From apathy to dependency. " From dependency back again into bondage.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), September 30, 1999.