Do any of you feel that the power will be out for a straight 30 days or longer? The reason I am asking, I live in SouthWest Oregon, I am debating between installing a tempory wood stove set up or getting a kerosene heater. We have a very small income and I think the Kerosene heater would be a more economical idea, but for long term the stove would be better. Any input would be helpful. Thanks

-- Allene (Allene7@yahoo.com), September 27, 1999

Answers

NO! NADA! NYET!

-- Truth (at@the.ready), September 27, 1999.

After renting a cabin with a propain heater that kept us toasty and talking to a friend with an RV we decided on a propain heater.

We ordered ours from the link below it was cheep and we're happy with it.

Modern Gas Sales

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), September 27, 1999.

I would definitely go with the wood stove. You need to find out somehow, how much S.W. Oregon is tied into the western national power grid.

Here in Montana, I have been told that in the event of an extended power outage that it takes approximately 72 hours for this state to free itself from the national power grid. We do not have nuclear energy power plants in this state, and we produce hydro-electrical power from our rivers and dams.

This being the case, should California, Washington, Oregon, and Idaho all have power failures because of interconnectedness, our state can disconnect and resume powering ourselves. I don't know what the status of Oregon is, in this regard.

-- Judy (mynames@not.lisa), September 27, 1999.

I'm dealing with the same dilemna. Truth is, I *want* a woodburning stove, for all the same cozy nostalgic reasons one would want a fireplace. And I *want* a Very Nice One, like the ones from Vermont Stove, that are dark red enamel and beautiful; with a lovely brick hearth installed underneath. Thousand$. But, my climate is mild, as I imagine yours is as well. It's a hard purchase to justify, even with y2k.

My husband feels a wood stove would be a fire risk and a down side to the house. *sigh*

We looked at the propane heaters, which are nice, but they must be professionally installed and the tank has to be outside. Plus, I am afraid of propane, I have never used it and I think of it as an explosion waiting to happen.

So, I think we will end up with a kerosene heater as well. With any luck at all we may not even need to use it. Also thinking about alternatives such as hot water bottles for the beds. It really doesn't get that cold here for that long a time. And dh is from South Dakota, so he doesn't think it gets "cold" here ever LOL.

As for the length of time the power might be out. Where I live we are on our own grid and hopefully that will give us stability. But I think your grid is quite large and connected to other states as well as Canada? You probably want to do some research with your local electricity supplier.

-- mommacarestx (harringtondesignX@earthlink.net), September 27, 1999.

Allene, a companion question might be to ask how many believe that the power may be rationed for a long duration of time, as is done in third world countries. (Thus, for example, non-residential blocks A through M may have power only from 6AM-NOON, while blocks N through Z may have it only from NOON-6PM, etc. Certainly, if for example nuclear power plants were shut down due to Y2K problems, this would impact the amount of electricity available and could result in such rationing.

This is a question that I have thought long and hard about. The short answer is that, based on the evidence, I have no reason to believe that the power will not outright cease come 1/1/2000 due to the inability of the industry to handle the Y2K rollover. The long answer is that I would like to think that the probability of this actually happening is low, mainly because of the "gut feel" confidence that has been expressed by virtually all the experts, including Dick Mills (optimist), Rick Cowles (pessimist), and the late Harlan Smith (in-betweener) that a very prolonged and wide ranging power blackout is unlikely.

The personal answer is that I relocated from the urban environment of Washington, D.C. to rural Northwest Arkansas, have a 15KW diesel generator, a battery/inverter system, and am in the process of storing 2,500 gallons of diesel fuel. "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst."

95 days.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.~net), September 27, 1999.

Hey Jack, wish we were neighbours, cause my neighbours appear out of it. I've spent the last 13 months straight preparing, all long term plans, got the water barrel in, got the manual water distiller, the wood cookstove, the small tenting cookstove, the old saws and files, the hand pump etc etc. Good luck. How are you gonna handle the inevitable nosy neighbours?

-- ly; (soo@sool.com), September 27, 1999.

Allene,

Just the uncertainty of it all should be enough to encourage you to act. Woodstove: nice but expensive. Kerosene: very cheap if you have somewhere to store the fuel. Consider having one on hand so you could huddle in one room if need be (with a window cracked for ventilation). It is about the smallest investment you can make for emergency heat, and it could well save your life.

-- semper paratus (llmcl@usa.net), September 27, 1999.

Kerosine heaters are really good. I used one during the snow storm that hit the south some years ago. I didn't have to use to much kerosine and got heat and cooked on the top. Didn't have the trouble other people were having.

-- ET (bneville@zebra.net), September 27, 1999.

Not only is there the problem (or possibility) of rationing, as Jack mentioned, but also remember the Chicago blackouts from summer before last? The city of Minneapolis was selling excess power to Chicago for about 5 times normal price!! Somebody has to pay for it!! So the question could easily wind up being, even if the electricity is available, or being rationed, will you be able to afford it?

I don't think it will go down for that long, but it's good to have a backup anyway. If kero is all you can afford, by all means do it. All the kero heaters that are for sale around here have a big red tag on them stating that they must be installed by professionals and inspected by the fire marshall. Check your local laws.

I got a really nice Quadrafire stove last year and it only cost me around 1500 greenspans including paying a friend to help me install it. Wood is renewable and fairly cheap. Real cheap if you go get it yourself. I think wood is the way to go for the long haul. You can probably find a used stove for sale around there in Oregon no problem.

-- Don Wegner (donfmwyo@earthlink.net), September 27, 1999.

I don't think the power will be out for 30 days or longer...unless we are nuked or suffer from massive terrorist sabotage.

In the event of severe y2k-related power problems, I suspect that a state of emergency would be declared and that the electricity industry would be temporarily nationalized. The y2k-compliant utilities would donate their juice to areas which had blacked out, once the grid instability had subsided. Then there would be rationed power and/or "rolling blackouts" where you'd get several hours a day.

It's probably not a bad idea to have a good kero heater, though. Just take care to keep your area well-ventilated. (Asphyxiation is all too common with those things. One second, you're feeling drowsy and you give in to the sudden urge to nap. Then you wake up with Grim Reaper tapping on your shoulder.) I cannot have one because my landlord corporation does not allow it. But you bet your bologna that my fiancee and I have good 0 degree sleeping bags and extra blankets.

-- coprolith (coprolith@rocketship.com), September 27, 1999.

From what I've heard, small wood stoves are a pain. Hard to set up and vent, and take constant tending (so you sleep in shifts). And they also generate a lot of ashes, and it's dangerous (but necessary) to clean them out a couple of times a day while they are very hot, and get them going again. Easy to get burned. And NOT so easy to keep and control a decent fire. Most of those are designed for camping trips, I'd guess.

A couple of years ago we decided to go whole hog with the Vermont Castings extra large wood stove, the masonry work, the stovepipe through the second floor and roof, and the works. Indeed, Thousand$. This is an addition to your house, a permanant installation, and you don't want to do this unless your intent is to use wood as your primary (or only) source of heat every winter from now on.

In the interim, we've learned a LOT about heating a house with wood. There are lots of details, and while we consider our decision a good one, we realize that it takes a whole lot more time and effort than gas, oil or electric. It is NOT a turn-on-and-forget appliance like a thermostat and central heater. The largest ramifications are that wood does NOT flow through wires or pipes, and doesn't go away fully after it's burned. Be prepared for a LOT of cutting, splitting, storing (wood is big), and cleaning. And fire tending. Even with the big stoves, you have to check in every half hour or so. And be on the lookout for good firewood year round.

But in exchange, it's great heat and it's cheap and smells nice. Hope you like to dust!

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), September 27, 1999.

One thing to keep in mind, no matter what kind of combustion heating you use (wood, kero, propane, butane or even candles), is that fire consumes oxygen. That is IN ADDITION to the problem with carbon monoxide, with some combustibles.

Under normal circumstances, there is enough air coming in, from small gaps in windows, doors, etc., that oxygen depletion is not a problem. However, a lot of people may actually overdo sealing up their houses, in anticipation of the power going off. Even if you use a non-vented propane or butane heater, make sure you have some small source of ventilation, to keep the air from going bad.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), September 27, 1999.

Allene, you're right, gas appliances are explosions waiting to happen. Fortunately, exploding gas appliances are rare.

I also live in SW Oregon, and I had the distinct displeasure of being in a house where my friend's almost new propane oven exploded. The bottom pilot light went out (for whatever reason). She turned on the oven to bake something. The bottom burner started pumping out gas, which was supposed to be lit by the bottom pilot light. A little while later, when the gas had filled the oven up to the level of the top (broiler) pilot light, BOOM! Blew the door off the oven; it flew clear across her kitchen and put a significantdent in her kitchen cabinet. The only injury was my big toenail, which I ripped off by racing over the back of her couch in my rush to rescue any of the kids I thought were in the kitchen.

Some other friends of mine arrived home, parked across the street from their just rented house, and BOOM! The house exploded into flames. The house, and all their belongings, were destroyed. (But they were just glad they hadn't gotten home a couple of minutes earlier)

There is an abundance of firewood in SW Oregon. It is a somewhat cheaper to buy than the equivalent amount of propane, if you buy it green and allow it to season for a year or two. If you buy it "dry", you'll still want to season it for a while, but it will be about the same cost as propane, btu for btu, depending on the heater, type of wood, type of propane heater, etc.

By the way, it's illegal to sell "non-compliant" (pollution-wise) wood stoves. But people still do so, by calling them "planters". They are around, and you can often buy them for less than $100. Many of them would be fine for heating a house. I prefer the expensive ones, though. I, too, have a Quadrafire, and I'm constantly amazed at how much heat it puts out on a small volumew of wood, and how little smoke it produces.

Stay warm!

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), September 27, 1999.

My scenario for electric power for WA, OR, CA, AZ is for an initial failure of the grid and a 72 hour blackout as individual companies try to Island away from the grid. After islanding and the grid comes back up, expect enormous pressure by The FEDS to have power rich areas to rejoin the grid. For example, we have Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station, the largest nuke in the world (Currently operating at MORE than 10% OVER design capacity) which, by the way, is CERTIFIED Fully Compliant. We also get a cut of Hoover and Paige Dams, and have two enormous coal plants at the mouth of the coal mines.

Now, we take 40% of the output of PVNGS, and sell 60% to...you guessed it, ENVIRONMENTALLY conscious California. In fact, the reason WE have the nuke is that California voters in effect banned nukes...so it was built in Arizona.

The point of this discussion is ...just HOW LONG will The FEDS let us Island after the grid comes back up?? I expect arm twisting past the breaking point. I expect RATIONING to commence no later than March 2000, no matter how remediated we are.

-- k. Stevens (kstevens@ It's ALL going away in January.com), September 27, 1999.

Since I am on a mountain top with 30 acres, I don't have any nearby neighbors, and my generator shed and fuel tanks are not real obvious where I have them positioned. At the same time, in the event of a prolonged outage, I realize that people will eventually realize that I have a generator. But, at the same time, it is not uncommon for farms in these parts to have generators (mainly for chicken houses). Should the worst happen in the event of a prolonged power outage, I would like to think that I can offer some services to people, who would be able to provide services to me. (E.g., although my tractor uses diesel fuel, my two pickup trucks are gas powered. But lots of folks have diesel trucks, and roughly 35% of the diesel fuel that I am storing is for "on-road" use. This is just one example of potential bartering.)

Regarding wood stoves, I was lucky to find two used ones, which just needed some cleaning up; I have one in my house, the other in my shop. Most people in this part of the country swear by Ashleys and Kings.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.~net), September 27, 1999.

I have owned both....

I love the wood insert, if you have a glass front it is almost as good as an open fireplace, and it REALLY heats the house. It is delightfull and can burn most any wood,paper, stuff, in an emergency.

Kerosene is nice if you need less expensive and portable, I have it now and heat a 800sqft building in CA (low=21F for nite) but I have to store liquid fuel...

If I had the money and space...WOOD!!!!.. if I could not have a wood stove, kerosene is an OK alternative.

Keep Strong, things will get worse before they get better

-- Helium (Heliumavid@yahoo.com), September 27, 1999.

Allene:

One other thing, it may depend on whether you live in a city, large metropolis area or whether you live in the boonies. If there are power shortages, the towns and cities will get power long before the country folk.

We installed a wood burning stove last year with a brick pad and hearth up the wall. Bought a used stove. There is nothing like having a nice fire. Quite romantic. Yes, you begin to think wood all year. At least I did but maybe that's because of Y2K. If I had a kerosene heater I'd be thinking of my kerosene stores as well. When you begin to take responsibility for your own power and heat, not assuming that someone else will always provide it for you ready at the flick of a switch, you begin to think differently and not take any of this for granted.

God bless

sdb

-- S. David Bays (SDBAYS@prodigy.net), September 27, 1999.

I have two kerosene heaters that I purchased at yard sales a couple of years ago. Every winter we fire it up on our winterized porch and it keeps it nice and toasty. I am glad I purchased them and have also purchased extra wicks (they aren't cheap either). I plan to use them in case the power goes out, along with extra sweat shirts.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), September 27, 1999.

We bought a propane heater last winter as a backup for our woodstove. It is nearly flat and mounted on the wall. It has a glass screen front that will burn a child's fingers but not allow the fingers to actually go into the flame ( or anything else a child might stick in there). It also has an oxygen sensor that will turn it off in case the oxygen in the room goes below a pre-set limit. It has a pushbutton ignition for the pilot light and can be completely shut down, pilot light and all, with the thermostat knob on top.

I cost us about $130 new. It provides a great deal of heat without using what we consider much propane. We use propane for other things, so I don't know exactly how much the stove used. We love it.

-- helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), September 27, 1999.

I just looked and you still can find used wood stoves for sale in your newspaper. Last spring I bought a $1000 unit for $80. It was listed in the thrifty ads in my local news paper.

-- freddie (freddie@thefreeloader.com), September 27, 1999.

If you're thinking about kero heaters, and want a very good brand like Toyostove, don't delay. In helping a new GI friend prepare a few weeks ago I learned that some of the better models, such as the DC100 are now out of stock for the rest of the year.

-- RUOK (RUOK@yesiam.com), September 28, 1999.

Allene, i too would vote for wood heat, we have a Quadrafire insert and used it to heat all last winter. I'm in Colorado and we have a saw mill in our town. We go there and get slab wood cut in 18" lengths for $10.00 a pickup load. I would imagine that in Oregon you could probably find a good deal too.

Our utility company had an interesting bit of info in this months bill...seems that they are promoting solar energy...huh??? yep you heard me right. So much so that they are offering a rebate of up to 1500.00 if you install one before 12/31/1999 and they'll even buy back your unused energy. Sounds fishy to me. We have a friend who works for them in an upper level management position and when we ordered our generator he asked us to get one for him too. 30 days? maybe, maybe not...our friend said we "could" be looking at 2 to 3 weeks of no power with several months of rolling brownouts BUT that was several months ago and I don't know how he'd answer it now. Probably wouldn't...not many people with info are sharing it these days.

-- JudiAnn (JudiAnnG_@yahoo.com), September 28, 1999.

JudiAnn says,

"Our utility company had an interesting bit of info in this months bill...seems that they are promoting solar energy...huh??? yep you heard me right. So much so that they are offering a rebate of up to 1500.00 if you install one before 12/31/1999 and they'll even buy back your unused energy."

I'm a lot confused, JudiAnn. They'll pay you $1500 to buy one WHAT?. And buy back WHAT unused energy? Could you please clarify?

Thanks,

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), September 28, 1999.

A woodstove can be used for cooking and heating. There are wood heaters that are made so that you do not have to tend them that often and you can go to sleep at night and wake up in the morning still having heat. If you have a wook cooking stove, you will almost have to get cast iron cookware and learn how to cure it and use it. A wood stove would be there to be used for other emergencies after Y2K and just for the enjoyment of them. You can learn how to "stoke" mthe stove to keep it going until norning, but the house will get pretty cold by morning. My Father (78) told me of how, when he was young, they would take a 55 gallon drum and make a wood burning heater out of it. Sinse less power is used in the winter, there probably not be rationing or brownouts, and the LAST thing they want to do is Island.

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), September 28, 1999.

Al...sorry, I didn't elaborate very well. They will give their customers a rebate of up to $1500.00 on a new solar energy system if it is installed before 12/31/1999. There is a device you can install with the system (I think) that will run your meter backwards if you are feeding energy into the electric lines when you are overproducing for your own needs. Somebody help me here - the notice is on my desk at the office, I will try to remember it tomorrow so I can post it verbatim.

-- JudiAnn (JudiAnnG_@yahoo.com), September 28, 1999.

I think wood stove is the best way to go. You have a choice of fuel.

-- && (&&@&&.&), September 28, 1999.

Like everybody else, including the fed's, I can only "guesstimate" what might go out and for how long. My assumption (for my own planning purposes here in a remediated county, a remediated city government, and a local EMC that appears to have its ducks in a row) is that power and natural gas are most likely have problems in distribution, not in simple generation.

SOME plants are going to have significant and long-lasting problems - they will be likely out for several weeks. Most of the remainder will have irregular problems as individual processes start up and shut down and as loads shift. So the national - and local grids - are going to face irregular outages coming FROM the plants, and more frequent control losses within the grid. As time goes by, both with tend to get solved, so the amount of power generated will become more reliable, and the number of failures in distribution will become less - not going away, but certainly getting less and less frequent.

Almost all distribution systems will have irregular failures lasting irregular times for several days; then, as we get past the first week, power outages in each household will become less frequent.

Without a blower fan AND natural gas, you can't run a central furnace. Without power, you can't run electric heat all, nor a electric-run heat pump, nor a pump-driven hot water heated system.

So, I'd recommend first getting heat at an affordable price: then you have something as a backup: least expensive is (as you noted) kerosene. BUT, kerosene isn't "home-brewed" - so what you burn, you can't replace, nor can you "drill for it" locally. But, at least you have somehting reliable. Get two-three 5 gallon drums - you'll have some reserves at a low price.

You live in the NW (assume you have trees nearby!). So, look at "locally renewable" heat = wood stoves in your case. (Coal, if near a supply in the mountains would be appropriate. Wood isn't an option if you are on the East face of the WA or OR mountains out in the desert.) Then, look again at the prices, and try to get a "planter" wood stove as mentioned above - or even better yet, a complete stove with chimney. My sister heated her house with a wood stove in shoreside MD for several years, so I know it can be done. I don't think house value will go down, if the stove is attractive and well-installed. An ugly, rusted stove with a jagged hole in the wall would drag down prices and be a fire hazard!

IF you already have a fireplace in your house, first get wood (a cord ?) then an insert or a complete stove to better burn the fuel you have.

In this case, your primary heat is electric/conventional. Your backup is kerosene and a good sleeping bag. Your standby is the fireplace (and a better sleeping bag), since it is the least efficient.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), September 28, 1999.

Hello Allene,

Just a couple of random thoughts on the subject. Menards home centers have kerosene heaters, the omni-directional 23,000 BTU type for sale @ $114.00. (best price I've seen for this type) A basic box wood stove, the el cheapo version, is on sale there till 9/30/1999 for $109.00. The regular price is approx. $130.00. (Harbor Freight has raised theeir price to $169.99) If you go the wood route you will spend at least double that amount to install a chimney for it. Which ever choice you make, always consider adequate ventalation and just as important, if not more so, purchase at least one battery powered carbon monoxide detector. Damn... I was just going to tell you that Sears has a "First Alert tm." smoke and CO. detector on sale for $28.88 (Reg. $39.99) when I noticed that the fine print says "Not available in Oregon"! Why would that be?

Regardless, purchase some form of Carbon Monoxide detection device (battery powered) in addition to any smoke alarms and don't burn any form of fuel indoors without this protection. (and don't forget extra batteries) As mentioned in a previous post, you don't want to go to sleep and wake up dead. After all the time and energy going into preps. what would be the point?

Anyway... Menards has red dyed Kerosene for sale @ $6.99 for 2.5gal. I'm having 55 gal. drums filled with 50 gal. of Kerosene delivered for $97.00. That price includes all taxes, delivery, and the cost of the drum (I have to buy the drums from the supplier) Even at that, I'm still saving approx. $43.00 by buying bulk. This price is for the N.W. Indiana area.

Thats all for now, John F.

-- John F. (millenniumadrenaline@hotmail.com), September 28, 1999.

Recently I talked with a co-worker who spent some years in Japan teaching English. He related that many homes there are heated with kerosene heaters...they don't have central heat as many of our homes do. My back-up to the fireplace is a Toyostove DC100 (I think). Ordered it last Summer, got it in the Fall...they sellout quickly I am told. Obviously not a long-term solution as a supply of kerosene is required and all safety precautions mentioned above apply. Dear Wife would not let me do the woodstove thing...would mess up the appearance of her beautiful hearth. She is a DGI obviously.

-- me (islands@landofrising.sun), September 28, 1999.

I had a wood stove put in last fall after researching the pros and cons of other alternative heat sources.The man who installed it told me to have a rider put on my insurance policy and to call my agent.The insurance gal came out and took a picture of it for their records.In case of a fire that is caused from the stove I am insured,it cost about $25.00 extra a year.

A few weeks ago,there was a report on the local news about people hurt in their back yard because of their propane storage tank exploded or leaked and caugt on fire.Something to do with the connection I think.This was in Kansas City,Mo.I just caught part of the broadcast.

-- maggie (aaa@aaa.com), September 28, 1999.

John F, while I agree with you that a smoke alarm is a good idea (regardless of the heat source), I don't agree about a CO detector for a wood heater. People still live in houses without even a chimney to vent their woodsmoke in some areas, and don't ever wake up dead. I've been using wood heat for twenty-four years, as do a large proportion of the rural population here in Oregon. I know of NO ONE who has a CO detector. If the stove is giving off enough fumes to poison yoi, you have something seriously wrong, and you'd have to ignore the smell, the burning of your eyes, etc. Don't worry about CO.

But DO worry about chimney fires. Don't burn wet wood or green wood. Or wood with a lot of pitch in it. A chimney fire is what you get from a particularly hot fire catching all the accumulated creosote in you flue on fire. It can sound like a 747 inside your house, can cause your flue to fall apart if not constructed properly, and can get the flue hot enough to set fire to rafters and joists in your attic.

Before rushing blindly into wood heat, do some research. Talk to the folks who already know about wood heat. Talk to a chimney sweep. Talk to the Supreme Being of your choice.

Judiann, Thanks for the clarification. Real Goods is pushing the idea of selling power back to the power company by connecting your solar panels up to run the meter backwards, too.

I hate to be a wet blanket about solar, but before investing a bunch of money doing this, consider: You will pay at LEAST $4000 per kilowatt for the panels (forget the controls, inverters, etc.). For this, on a sunny day, at noon, you will receive between $.02 and $.15 (anyone paying any more than 15 cents per kilowatt hour?) per HOUR!

In other words, if you live in a VERY sunny location (southern Baja comes to mind), you'll get about ten or twenty dollars a month back from the power company (if they pay you retail rates). So, if you disregard interest on your money, you'll experience a payback period of twenty or thirty years (again,not counting the cost of all the controls, etc.) If you count interest, there will BE no payback period.

So if you go solar, do so because you want to be a good citizen of the Earth, not to make money off the power company.

By the way, it's easy to spend upwards of thirty thousand dollars on a solar system for your home, and still have to rely on wood, propane, gas, oil, etc. for space heating, cooking, etc.

I'm getting a solar pump, not because it's economically sound, but because I feel the need to have water at my house whenever the power goes out. I have enough water in my storage tank to last for a couple of weeks in the winter, but if the power goes out in the summer, my crops will fail in about a week without water.

Lots of solar pumps available; the beauty of them is you don't have to have those big, dirty, costly, caustic BATTERIES to run a solar pump.

GO SOLAR!!!

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), September 28, 1999.

Hello A1 K1oyd,

There are a lot of very lucky people in Oregon. CO is an odorless colorless, tasteless gas. With that in mind, let me relate two incidences. I typicaly work the night shift while my wife works days. We live in a two story home with an attached garage. Our bedroom is located on the upper floor on the south side of the house. The garage is located on the north side. Our forced air gas furnace is in the basement. On cold winter mornings my wife would sometimes run the car 5-10 minutes to warm it up before leaving for work. Occasionaly this would be done (I later found out) with the garage door closed. Apparently she assumed that all the fumes would exit once she opened the door to leave. This routine would take place while I prepared for bed. Well, some time ago the homeCO units became widely available and, being the ever protective family man, I purchased one and installed it in the upstairs hallway. One cold winter morning, after I had been asleep for about two hours after my wife left for work, I was rudely awakened by an unfamiliar screaching sound. I bounded from bed and searched the house from top to bottom. I came to realize that it was only the CO detector and not the smoke alarms that had gone off. I called my wife to confirm that she had indeed left for work on time and that she had run the car inside prior to leaving (something I repeatedly told her not to do, and she hasn't done since). The point is, that within two hours, the CO had infiltrated the house from one end to the other. Apparently it had done this on numerous occasions in the past but had gone undetected all that time. The quantities were small and the exposure brief but undetected nonetheless!

I related this story to a coworker. He told me a story that made me a firm believer in the devices. It was about the same period in time when he got his. A gift from his parents. They had purchased a unit for themselves and decided to get another as a gift for him and his family. It was in the winter. Cold, nasty, Flue season. He, his wife and kids weren't feeling too well. Tired and listless, slightly nauseated and headachy feeling. Typical flue-like symptoms right? They plugged the CO detector in the evening they got it. It went off almost immediatly. No matter what they did they couldn't get it to "work right". The guy's Dad said the didn't have any problems with theirs and decided to exchange it for another one. They plugged it in and, you guessed it, it started going off almost immediatly again. Dad suggested they have the furnace checked immediatly if not sooner which they did. The result? The furnace guy found that the heat exchanger was cracked and the furnace was pumping CO into the house every time the heat kicked on. Instead of the flu, they were slowly being poisoned to death!!!

The Wal Mart flier I recieved yesterday (09-28-1999) Has the battery powered "First Alert" smoke and CO detector on sale for $29.88, down from $39.88. If you want just CO protection they have one for $19.97. Smoke detector for $3.88, down from $5.88.

Cheap insurance, don't you think?

John F.

-- John F. (millenniumadrenaline@hotmail.com), September 29, 1999.

John F, I agree, it's cheap insurance, although I don't see that a car running in the garage, its fumes being dumped out of the tailpipe, is quite the same as a woodstove, functioning properly.

Nor do Isee a furnace with a bad heat exchaner as being that similar to a wood heater. But I DO agree that it's cheap insurance. If you arent' able to figure out whether your wood heater is functioning properly, and lots of folks aren't, get a CO monitor.

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), September 30, 1999.

"A few weeks ago,there was a report on the local news about people hurt in their back yard because of their propane storage tank exploded or leaked and caugt on fire.Something to do with the connection I think."

Yup, propane can be nasty when it goes off. It is rare, but I had a first hand experience a couple of years ago, with only a small grill tank.

We live in a duplex. The folks next door fired up the grill, did their stuff, and turned it off. A few minutes later, we heard POP... POP... POP... He was smart enough to drag the grill away from the house. About a minute later, the connection let go, and we had flames about 10 feet out, and 15-20 feet tall. Lasted about 20-30 seconds. Burnt the shit out of a tree branch above the second floor! Quite a show...

Be careful!!!!!!!!!!

Tick... Tock... <:00=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), September 30, 1999.