What if you can't bug out?

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As I noted in another posting, I live overseas...in Italy specifically. I am affiliated with the military here. What if the situation get REALLY serious? I am surrounded by Italians, with whom I do not share a language and whose values are different from my own. The military may be unable to assist its own and there is no base at this facility....a little gated compound with a small exchange, but no housing at all... So what do all of us do? Move into the school? There is a gap of several miles between the supplies at the exchange and the gated school facility. There are no plans as far as I know in this unlikely event. If I prepare a bug out bag or bags, where do we go? Thievery is rampant here and I suspect that it will hit epidemic proportions in the event that Y2K becomes a reality. The Italians are totally unprepared in any event. So now what?

-- Ynott (Ynott@incorruptible.com), September 26, 1999


I agree with Bokonen!


-- Ed Yourdon (HumptyDumptyY2K@yourdon.com), September 28, 1999.

I think that if I were in your place, and there was no possibility that I could take a leave during that period of time, that I would begin right now to establish some friendships with the area citizens. Even though you see them as "totally unprepared people who have a different language, different values and who are prone to thievery," I think that if you made an effort, you could find some who speak English, who are educated, hard working, have good values, who are able to get through hard times. Typically school teachers are very honest, caring people, as are doctors, farmers, clergy, etc. And have you considered learning some Italian??

I think that each of us are a little scared in this same way...."if things get really bad, can I trust the people who live around me?" We all have a neighbor or two that we think will cause a problem, in one way or another...."who aren't preparing, have different values, don't speak the same "language" as me, aren't the same religion, or might be gay, or drive a certain kind of vehicle, on and on and on..."

I agree that being in another country is more of a problem, but if you have no choice, and will, in fact, be there come the first of the year, then you have to make the most of it, and take some steps to make it the most enriching experience that you can.

You've got just over 3 months to make some new friends, to find out that there are some people around you that are really nice people, once you get to know them. Establish some trust, and then help them get prepared.

Good luck!


-- Margo (margos@bigisland.com), September 26, 1999.

Ynott, my heart goes out to you. Margo gives some good advice.

Not to trivialize your position Ynott, but I've a good friend in Chicago, who because of ....... believes he cannot buggout.

It is sad, and as the countdown is now is double digits, i find myself in sadness, depression, and the related emotions and cognizants re my many internet friends w h o a r e s t u c k where they are right now in self-admitted danger zones.

-- Mitchell Barnes (spanda@inreach.com), September 26, 1999.


Yes, you cannot put everything into one posting. I do indeed have some excellent neighbors who speak English. In fact, they teach my daughter everyday after school. My daughter is attending Italian school and is "hopefully" going to be fluent soon. I know some Italian, but under pressure will probably forget it when needed. If you haven't experienced a disaster situation and tried to communicate in a language that is not your own, then you have no idea how difficult it can be....not to mention that this is the fifth language that I have had to learn...so things tend to run together. The problem with thievery is not from my wonderful neighbors, but from the overflow of the people (unknown to me and them both) who descend upon us during tourist season. They know where we are and come NOW. You can BET they will show up when their food runs out and they outnumber us many times to one. I have informed my neighbors and given them information and discussed the situation with them, but although they were very gracious, they are not interested. On the plus side, I have been scoping them out. They have a well (yay!) and fruit and vegetables are abundant. A farmer lives down the street! If the local communities don't move north, we will be okay....But I am afraid, very much afraid that they will....

-- Ynott (Ynott@incorruptible.com), September 27, 1999.

Bugging out, is a highly over-rated concept. Yes, my wife and I have a well stocked bag, already prepared, and regard the flexibility afforded by a bug-out bag, as one of our most important preps. We are, however, aware that it is as a last ditch act of desperation. Since we'd only leave our well stocked home, if things had really gone to hell, bugging out would be pretty much the same thing as jumping from the 10th story window of a burning building. A person probably wouldn't survive the fall, but what other options do you have?

Your best bet is to work to develope strong ties to the people around you. Work to make yourself a part of the community, so that whatever positive things happen, are shared with you.

I know the opinions of lots of people is that it's pretty little-Mary-Sunshine-ish, to expect anything good to happen and frankly, I think the possibilities are all over the place, on a community by community basis. Some will disintergrate, some will work together. You are in the best position to make an evaluation, on how the community around you will react.

Bugging out in a strange land is pretty risky. You're a long way from any areas where English is a common language

Good luck, to you.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), September 27, 1999.

I agree strongly with Margo. Learn Italian. Make friends. You will find that most of the Italians are wonderful people. You can learn a lot of a language in 3 months...if you have to!

I also suggest that you try to stay as invisible as possible. (just avoid a high profile). Make your own stockpiles of basics (food, water, fuel, heat source). Assume that little infrastructure will work (and hope that you will be very surprised!).

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), September 27, 1999.

Examples of an EMERGENCY QUICK LIST for One Month's Supply for an adult, A month's supply in a box under your bed! Keep food in the driest, coolest and darkest area in the house, plus water in 2 liter soda bottles. Store these large amounts of staples along with a variety of canned and dried foods. If necessary, you could survive for years on small daily amounts of these staples. ************************************************************** (**Red Cross) One Month Daily proportions for Emergency Storage for a family of FOUR adults and shelf life plus Water. Store two gallons water per person a day, 4 people=8 gal/day =240 gal/month OR minimum four 55 gallon Barrels.

Three (3) oz Shredded Wheat, Wheat Germ or Whole Wheat 318 Cal, 22 lb. for four, 5 years shelf life Four (4) 8 oz glasses of Powdered Milk 980 Cal, 35 lb. for four, 2-5 years shelf life Eight (8) oz Tomato Juice 45 Cal, 30-30oz cans, 3-5 years shelf life Four (4) oz peanuts or 420 Cal, 34 lb. for four, 1-2 years shelf life one Tablespoon Peanut Butter 95 Cal, 6 lb. for four, 1-2 years shelf life ***************************************************************** **OR**( FEMA) Alternative One Month Emergency Basic Food Storage for ONE adult: It is said, 1,858 Calories per day for basic adult daily consumption needs plus water. Store two gallons water per person a day, 1 person=1 gal/day=30 gal/month or less than one 55 gallon Barrel.

Stock the following amounts per adult, per month. _____Wheat - 20 lb., (Shredded, Wheat Germ or Whole Wheat), store in sealed cans or plastic buckets _____Powered Milk (for babies and infants) - 20 pounds in nitrogen packed cans _____Corn - 20 lb., store in sealed cans or plastic buckets _____Soybeans - 10 lb., store in sealed cans or plastic buckets _____Iodized Salt - 1 pound _____Vitamin C - 15 grams, Rotate every two years ***************************************************************** **OR**The Asians and Latin Americans / Islanders know that beans and rice make a meal, add milk and you have a complete protein meal. Some of you may not have the space or the funds to buy a palette of food, but you can buy beans, rice, milk, wheat, salt and other staples inexpensively at Sam's:

_____Pinto Beans 25# bag of pinto beans is $15. There's 12 servings in a pound = 300 servings in 25#. _____Rice 50# bag of rice is $12. There's 10 servings in a pound = 500 servings in 50#. _____Milk, Dry 4# box is $8. (Nonfat Dry) _____Popcorn 50# bag is popcorn. Grind this up for corn breads, grits and other yummy foods. _____Sugar 50# bag. Get 5# per person a month, 60# per person a year. _____Salt 5# box is $5. So for under $140 a person you can feed your family of four. Don't forget your pets, they'll need food too.

Rice Tip: 1 oz weighed * 2.666 = 2.666 oz dry measured * 1.5 = 4 oz measured cooked = ~ 100 Cal. So 1 oz dry weight of rice = 4 oz measured cooked volume. Use between 1.5 - 2.0 times water as dry measure for cooking. So 4 oz dry measure of rice needs 6 oz measure of water to cook it in. 1L=1Qt =2#, 1Liter=1Quart=2 Pounds, 1 Tbs. Dried Eggs, Equiv. 2 Eggs

************************************************************** **OR**(Morman) One Month Food Storage Plan for ONE adult: 1 Month 3 Months 6 Months 1 Year

Wheat/other grains 58 lb. 175 lb. 350 lb. 700 lb. Powdered Milk 3 lb. 10 lb. 20 lb. 40 lb. Tomato Soup 4 cans 11 lb. 23 lb. 45 cans Peanut Butter 1 LB 2 lb. 3 lb. 5 lb. Salt 1 LB 3 lb. 7 lb. 13 lb. Multivitamin tablets 61 tablets 183 tablets 365 tablets 730 tablets Mushroom Soup 3 cans 8 cans 16 cans 32 cans Tuna Fish 1 can 4 cans 8 cans 15 cans Macaroni dinner 1 box 3 boxes 5 boxes 10 dinners Honey 1 LB 3 lb. 5 lb. 10 lb. Sugar 20 lb. 60 lb. 120 lb. 240 lb. Aspirin 42 tablets 126 tabs 252 tabs 500 aspirins Toilet Paper 5 rolls 13 rolls 26 rolls 52 rolls

****************************************************************** WATER: You need two gallons a day per person. One gallon to drink, the other for cooking/washing/etc. You must resolve your water issues first and foremost, you die in 3 days without water PERIOD. Clean water, there are many high quality water filters out there. Many are backordered until next year! Ask when it will be shipped!

Candles and lanterns: Walmart sells a box of four candles, 125 hours each, 500 total light hours for $4.95. Be careful with fire. Remember, if a fire truck takes more than eight minutes to get to your house, it will most likely be burnt down before they get there. Religious Candles in the market are, 99 cents!

FLOUR: Some will say the flour will not store long term: Flour loses it a major portion of it's nutritional value with in 48 hours of milling and then stabilizes for 18-24 months. You MUST freeze your beans & grains for 3 days to kill the bugs + eggs prior to storage, be sure to keep dry to retain a stable shelf life. Pour a handful of salt inside your container before you screw the cap on. Salt will help kill any insects present in the grain. Also a Bay Leaf will help too. Then you must move them to a sealed container to warm up, without getting the product wet from condensation -- some grain molds can be toxic. A NEW plastic trash CAN will do just fine, be sure that it is not made from post consumer grade plastics. Or the Sterlite short bins will do swell.

WHEAT: Many vendors say you need 315# of wheat, this is a lot of raw wheat and it is not easy to find in the city, and you don't need as much if you buy 100# of corn & rice. If things are as bad as they are denied to be, then we'll be using this stuff before they expire sitting on our shelf.

MEATS: Meats are optional when you're on a tight budget. Beans & rice and milk & peanut butter are examples of complete protein meals. I'd suggest you buy some canned meats, but not as the main basis for your normal meals consider them biweekly treats.

MEDICAL: Get your shots. You might ask for a series of third world shots. Have all your DENTAL work done. If you need GLASSES (2 pair) or a new eye exam, get them NOW!

NEVER COOK INDOORS USING A CAMPING STOVE! And especially charcoal grills. You WILL die from the fumes: Carbon Monoxide / Carbon Dioxide.

-- Mary Ann Epperson (LadySucces@Aol.Com), September 28, 1999.

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