Kiss your relatives goodbye - why I think martial law is inevitable

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Here's how the dorks planning for Y2K crowd control think (I'm being charitable by calling them dorks). Martial law will be instituted before any kind of bank run or failure. Why? Because its possible to do now, while it would be far more difficult dealing with power failures, gas shortages etc. Anyone who thinks that chaos will ensue is I think, missing the mark. THEY would rather see us starve to death in forced isolation than let the majority overun society. I strongly suspect that a very intense military presence is not far off the horizon. Oh, and my family, although intelligent, and such DGI's that I don't hold much hope for them.

Stew

-- stew (catch@melater.com), September 21, 1999

Answers

Ever wonder why us GI's are considered paranoid?

-- Gus (y2kk@usa.net), September 21, 1999.

Sounds like my family.

www.y2ksafeminnesota.com

-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), September 21, 1999.


Gua and I posted at the same time. I meant that my (non-immediate)family are such DWGIs that (despite multiple degrees) they would not likely figure Y2K out until it was too late for them.

www.y2ksafeminnesota.com

-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), September 21, 1999.


There has to be a reason to impose martial law. An event has to take place and what would that event be? Nothing is happening right now so why isn't martial law imposed now? With the disaster in the Carolinas and New Jersey is martial law imposed there? The bank runs will not be a reason for martial law. The banks will simply close their doors and the police will be on hand for crowd control. Give us something of substance to back up your scenario, something highly likely. Thanks.

-- need more proof (needmore@needmoreee.com), September 21, 1999.

Stew,

I don't think there are enough National Guard troops or whoever the hell they are going to put out there to keep things under control. There is a post from a couple days back saying that the city of Albuquerque (population 400,000) is going to have 100 cops on duty during their planned super-maximum force times. That is 4000 people per cop. Now if even only 1% of the people decide they feel like getting a little crazy, each cop will have 40 lunatics to deal with. Of course the biggest cities will have the Guard out too, but do they have enough to blanket every city, even smaller towns?

-- @ (@@@.@), September 21, 1999.



Actually, martial law could be imposed quite easily. In the past, Chicago and other sites nationwide have experimented with localized "brown-outs" where electricity has been shut off to pre-determined areas throughout the city. So just for the sake of argument, lets assume that the grid will only produce 40% of it's current output. Since we know that the utilities can control who and who doesn't get juice by merely flipping a switch, who's to say that it hasn't already been pre-determined where the juice will stay on and where it will go off? Then it becomes simply a case of marshalling the military forces where it will be turned off. Just my 2 cents

-- rainman (rainman@uh-oh.com), September 21, 1999.

@, Your math has problems, but I get your point. I fully agree that there will have to be something big actually happening before there can be martial law. Nothing would cause more trouble than trying to restrict movement of all of the American people.

-- semper paratus (almost@always.ready), September 21, 1999.

Excuse me,

...not enough N.G. troops. What about overseas soldiers that are already HERE???? They don't give a rip if they shoot an American! YOU ARE THE FOREIGNER. Third World and communist bloc troops will do anything for three hots and a cot( plus a little green). Wake Up and smell the sellout, please. Read UN leaders current comment regarding UN troop takeover of ANY country in yesterdays headlines.

-- watcher (UN@not yet.com), September 21, 1999.


Rainman, I don't see where turning the power off is going to stop thieves in the night. It is true that power companies can cause BLACKOUTS, (there is no such thing as a BROWNOUT!). A total misconception! Either you have power or no power at all. And what about martial law during the daytime? I firmly believe that it has to be a monumental reason for declaring martial law. I'm waiting to hear the reason for one. I want to hear more before I give my TCW.

-- need more proof (needmoreproof@needmoreprooffff.com), September 21, 1999.

Semper,

My math has problems?

400,000 people, 100 cops

400,000 / 100 = 4000 people per cop

4000 x 1% = 40 people per cop

????

Also, I don't know who you are agreeing with, but it isn't me. I think it will take next to nothing for them to put the Guard out on the streets. They have been wanting to do this for decades, now they have the perfect excuse. Haven't you heard what the FBI has been telling us? The religous fanatics, the Chinese, and Bin Laden are all planning on attacking our computer systems and carrying out terrorist activities. Of course, the Guard will have to be there to "protect us"! And when all of the governments computers start crashing because they haven't fixed them (but they're 97% ready!) they are going to say that the religous fanatics did it.

-- @ (@@@.@), September 21, 1999.



--a: Too bad the Guard wasn't around to cut off the balls of those gang members who raped that little girl. Of course, those gang members will get off because they were religious fanatics, yeh, yeh, that's what we'll blame it on! You're one sicko and one of the problems with this world.

-- speechless (speechless@speechlesss.com), September 21, 1999.

Speechless,

You must be some kind of brain-dead retard. You don't even know sarcasm when you read it? Do you actually think I believe the B.S. that the FBI is feeding us? Get a clue before you spout off rude dude.

-- @ (@@@.@), September 21, 1999.


THE FALL OF ANY NATION=STARTS WITH ACCEPTANCE OF IMMORALITY.

-- X-RATED AMERICA. (dogs@zianet.com), September 21, 1999.

It's a bit late in this thread to mention this, but:

Troll alert!

Jerry

-- Jeerry B (skeptic76@erols.com), September 21, 1999.


Oh, so that was you Al-d. That explains it. That's the reason you keep getting deleted, because you don't even think before you spout off. I have NOTHING against religous fanatics, but our government is currently creating a huge propoganda spin to blame THEM for the computer failures during Y2K. Heard it on the news this morning.

-- @ (@@@.@), September 21, 1999.


Received this email today...

"Hi Folks,

Normally I'd post this only to Fratrum, but given the nature of it and the recent threads concerning what we are trying to prepare for, I thought I'd send to both lists.

Today I went in to get my "ears lowered." The barber is a former Marine and was in recon before there was a Force Recon in the Corps. He is a patriot through and through and raised his kids right! Anyway, he was playing a video on the recent spate of Delta Force and Marine "training" actions inside the United States. Among the participants in several of the training exercises were FOREIGN TROOPS -- Dutch, German, British, and Russian (Soviet Spetznaz). They were shown in the various videos and identified themselves!!

These training actions are about closing off major sections of a town, taking control of airports, and conducting house to house searches and seizures of "personal firearms." A number of the soldiers interviewed said that they were preparing for foreign missions -- but for those who have never been to a third world country, their cities and ours are not alike!!

But to top things off, several times the military refused to permit journalists to film or witness the exercises. Many of them were conducted without notifying the local citizens, and in one case, no one in the city was notified!!

In short, folks, it would be a very good idea to leave major population centers -- unless you just love looking at OD green for a long time!!

BTW, Delta Force cannot conduct any mission or training exercise, especially INSIDE US borders off a military reservation, without prior approval and sanction of the President himself!! He personally must sign off on those orders due to the nature of special ops and the Delta Force!!"

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 22, 1999.


What would be the purpose of imposing martial law...assuming it was even possible to impose martial law on a nation this size and this well armed?? You don't need to impose martial law in order to limit bank withdrawals...you simply limit bank withdrawals!! You don't need martial law to keep people off the streets, you just impose a cerfew. What is all this talk about martial law? It's physically impossible!! In fact, Senator Bennett himself admitted that, remember?

-- Don Wegner (donfmwyo@earthlink.net), September 22, 1999.

lets see...there's roughly 270 million of us 'murkans (if the last census was anywhere close), using @@@.@'s ratio (sounds kinda calculus-like, don't it?), that would require 270,000,000 / 4000, say roughly 67,500 law enforcement types (thats quite a crowd of five ohs)...granted, the numbers and logic here are being exptrapolated from nearby atmosphere, but you kinda get the feeling that the cop to nut ratio is uncomfortably low.

-- Jay Urban (jurban@berenyi.com), September 22, 1999.

Mumsie:

The deal with a Presidential Waiver is ONLY for participation in a Law Enforcement action. It has nothing to do with training. Or so I understand it. Perhaps Hardliner could enlighten BOTH of us.....

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), September 22, 1999.


Martial law would be quite easy to do. You don't deploy a frikin' marine in everyone's back yard. There are plenty of NG troops coupled with BATF, FEMA, FBI, and every other ARMED government agency, to do the job.

For a succesfull implementation of Martial law in a big city, all you really have to do is take controll of the MAJOR route's into/out of the city and also post heavily armed groups to secure essential resources(TV,Gov. buildings, Energy, etc.). You people seem to think that they need a troop on every corner. Once the major roadway's are secure, along with the infrastucture/government, neighborhoods will still be under the routine controll of regular law enforcement. The difference being that now they won't be at Dunkin' Doughnuts, now they will have authority to mess you up at the drop of a hat.

A large city could probably institute theese plans with their existing locally based NG, it really doesn't take a whole lot of troops. People tend to become "herds" when confronted with situations like that. Once the first civvy gets capped for spitting on the sidewalk, the herd will play nice.

-- CygnusXI (noburnt@toast.net), September 22, 1999.


Folks, if there is martial law declared before rollover, I suspect it will go down something like this (President Clinton speaking):

"My fellow Americans, we have been *lied* to. I have recently recieved undeniable evidence that many of our largest and most important corporations are not ready for the Century Date Change.

Even worse, the backbone of our country, the electric utility industry, through their public relations organization, the North American Electrical Reliability Council, or NERC, has carried out an organized conspiracy to mislead the government and the public as to the true state of readiness in their industries.

My fellow Americans, we face a true crisis in only ** days........

In order to ensure safety and to most effectively utilize resources in the time remaining to us, I am forced to declare a state of National Emergency.

All National Guard troops are being nationalized as we speak. Except for work related trips, there will a dark to dawn curfew imposed immediately.

By declaring this National Emergency, we will be able to utilize the wealth of knowledge and experience of the American People to avert this impending tragedy.

Now, folks, I am NOT saying that this WILL happen. Only that this is how I would expect to see it go down IF the decision is made......

-- Jon Williamson (jwilliamson003@sprintmail.com), September 22, 1999.


Oh John!

That is it! I can hear Clinton on the radio now..."My fellow Americans, I feel your pain...blah, blah, blah. ..."for your own protection...martial law." AAAAAAcccccckkkk. This scenario is plausible due to all the build-up of possible terrorist attacks along with Y2K. We are being mentally prepped for this eventuality. IMHO, of course.

-- Sharon (sking@drought-ridden.com), September 22, 1999.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but...

Just because martial law has been declared, it doesn't mean that there will be or must be a squad of soldiers at every intersection enforcing it. Does there?

I think it will be more a matter of declaring martial law so that if the 'authorities' want what you have (or you, for that matter) they don't have to worry about those pesky civil rights getting in the way.

Really, if Pres Man waved his pen today, and martial law is declared in the big O office, how would we know? Does it even say anywhere that every citizen has to be informed that martial law has been declared?

If we were in the middle of a hurricane, for example, and our radios & TVs, etc. weren't working, or we'd been too busy with sandbags to pay attention, how would we know if martial law had been declared or not? I would bet we'd only find out about it when the grapevine began passing along stories of looters being shot on sight, or Farmer John's backhoe being commandeered by some 'deputies' with guns.

Martial law is like our garden variety, everyday law. You only really experience its existance when either you cross it yourself or you hear of someone else doing it. Martial law is declared for the benefit of the authorities in that they are effectively given carte blanche for enforcement and maintenance of the public welfare. If Dan Rather isn't there at 6:30 pm (Eastern) to tell us it's been declared, we won't know about it. Know what I mean?

In that light, I'm 100% confident that martial law will be declared. No doubt in my mind. Just because there aren't enough cops & soldiers to keep the whole country in their homes doesn't mean that it won't happen. You don't need tanks and machine guns to declare it, and you only have to enforce it when & where it suits you.

Seems to me that it would be most wise to declare it; that way, whatever trodding upon of civil rights that may occur will be easily explained as in the best interest of the public good.

-- Arewyn (isitthatlate@lready.com), September 22, 1999.


I'm so sorry Jon (not John). :-)

-- Sharon (sking@drought-ridden.com), September 22, 1999.

I think that there will have to be an 'event' to get martial law off and running. I personally think it will be a biowarfare incident.

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 22, 1999.

Jon,

I suspect it will go down more like this:

If they decide they want to put the troops out BEFORE the rollover, then they will create some kind of staged terrorist activity. Perhaps an explosion at a government or military target, like the Oklahoma city bombing or the World Trade Center kinda thing. Then of course Bubba will make an announcement to the people:

"our top officials in the F.B.I., N.S.A., C.I.A., Defense Dept., (blah, blah) have informed me that they have identified links of this bombing to Bin laden's terrorist regime. We feel that as we approach the century date change we must avoid the possibilty of any of these anti-American terrorist organizations finding any kind of a broken link in our National Security and Defense structure. The National Guard will be deployed and will set up checkpoints at critical junctures (every corner) within our nation in order to search for any type of destructive devices, and to apprehend anyone suspected of hostile intentions. We ask that when leaving your home you always carry identification with you, and take with you only the items that are absolutely necessary (because if you don't have identification we'll lock you up in our concentration camps). The National Guard will remain for your protection until we have verified that there is no possibility of any threat to our National Security system (forever). Thank you for your cooperation, and have a nice day." :)

Of course if they decide they are going to wait until just AFTER the rollover, then it will go something like this:

"We have discovered that several (50,000) of our government computer systems have been attacked by cyber-terrorism. Even though we fixed 97% of them (6,000 out of 80,000) for the Y2K bug, it appears that religous fanatics and Chinese terrorist organizations have found a way to send a virus into our systems that erases all of the things we fixed for Y2K. We are implementing Federal contingency plan # 730GK25-46MANUAL-2962LABOR-BLAHBLAH. Every American citizen, except those critical personnel designated as "exempt", will be scheduled to volunteer 20 hours per week to assist in the continuation of normal government services to the public. The National Guard is being deployed to help you "find your way" (at gunpoint) to your job locations. Bread and water will be provided while on duty to serve your nation. As soon as the threat of these cyber-terrorist attacks has been eliminated and our computers are restored to normal functioning (never) you will be relieved of your service to the government. I want to personally thank you in advance for your cooperation, have a nice day." :)

-- @ (@@@.@), September 22, 1999.


IF there is an 'incident' such as biowarfare with a massive death count, it will strike fear into people's hearts. They will be glad to quarantine that area. It is not a far step from there to accept 'protecting' their own area/city from being threatened. Martial law is not necessarily 'a guard on every street'. Think containment and restrictions. And yes, if U.N. troops are involved, do you think they would hesitate to shoot an American civilian? For all those who talk of 'prying the gun' from their cold dead fingers etc., will you grab your gun and run out with it blazing when someone you barely know or don't know is gunned down? Not likely. You might use it in self-defense, but you would probably try to negotiate something peaceful, particularly if you think resistance would result in the slaughter of women and children that you love. Everyone sounds so 'sure' of what they would do under reactive duress, but history and human nature does not bear this out. The options such as joining militias have been crippled by factors such as government infiltration of the militias, and by the successful demonization of the same.

I have tried to picture America's response to unprecedented catastrophic scenarios. I do not see the youth of America rising up to defend her. Possibly looting the music and electronics stores, and quickly reverting to the vicious laws of survival of the fittest (better armed and uninhibited by a conscience) to take what they want and need (and don't think they'll give a rip about you, they have been very conditioned to rationalize "me first"). It's not a pretty thought. Many people post their intentions to go out in blaze of glory if necessary. We shall see. It is the gravest mistake to forget that our now much maligned Founding Fathers based their principled stands on deep rooted beliefs. Even Thomas Jefferson was a God-fearing man...

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift of God? That theyare not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever." ~Thomas Jefferson 1781

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 22, 1999.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ