Lot of talk about gold ownership as a Y2K hedge. Price of gold isn't rising, supposedly because of Central Bank leasing. Most gold coins available for purchase in the US from gold dealers appear to be 1998/9 minting. Is the following what is going on?

Fed or Treasury leases gold to an intermediary (bullion dealer) to be turned into gold coins.

Mint uses ONLY Fed/Treasury provided gold for coins dated 1998, 1999 (and maybe 2000).

Bullion bank sells coins to dealers, who sells coins to public.

WHO OWNS THE GOLD COINS?

The original leasor never gave up ownership, and if all the American Eagles minted in a year can be traced back to the the leasor, could not the public be forced to give back the coins? Probably get your purchase price back from the dealer.

You get to keep it while the price is low, but the system is set up to make you give it back if the price rises - at cost.

-- ng (cantprovideemail@none.com), September 20, 1999

Answers

This reminds me of the question: how many animals did Moses take on the ark?

You and/or a coin dealer buy, not lease, the new coins directly from the mint (not through a "bullion bank") and then you and/or the coin dealer own the coins.

Jerry

-- Jerry B (skeptic76@erols.com), September 20, 1999.

I'm not sure that the gold that is being minted is the same gold. I am under the impression that the leased gold never actually leaves the vaults. I could be wrong though.

That is an interesting idea, however. I for one would not put that past our government. They took gold away once before. Obviously if you "bought" "leased" gold, you do not actually own it, and property rights do not apply, I guess.

There are a couple of ways around this, of course. First, you can buy Canadian Maple Leafs, or Krugerrands (sp?), or Austrian gold. If your thesis is correct, and all the CB's will cover for each other, than obviously you'll have to melt the coins down, and create your own.

The last idea leaves me to believe that your scenario is not correct, because it would be too easy to make gold anonymous. Which is the whole point of money in the first place. It should be valuable, and homogeneous. By being homogeneous, it can become anonymous.

Jolly

-- Jollyprez (jolly@prez.com), September 20, 1999.

They don't need this type of "scam" to take your gold money (or any other kind of money, real or imagined). They just take it. They're the government; that's what they do.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 20, 1999.

Liberty is absolutely correct, this is exactly what happened in 1933 under President Roosevelt's executive order. However, back then greenbacks were actually backed by gold, and you even take your paper money to the bank and get gold in return! After the crash of 1929, this is in fact what people started doing, trading their paper money for gold. Roosevelt put a stop to that by declaring ownership of gold to be illegal by American citizens. Then, in 1971, President Nixon broke off any connection between the U.S. dollar and gold. The dollar was no longer backed by anything. (In 1974, Nixon legalized private ownership of gold by U.S. citizens.)

So the "good" news is that it seems that it would be of little value for the U.S. to confiscate gold, it really does not seem like it would do any good to help remedy anything today. (Now, on the other hand, the money in your pension fund may be another story.)

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), September 20, 1999.

I think the lesson here, no matter how distasteful to some, is that when push comes to shove, the government can and will do almost anything.

Of course the bottom line is that they are entrusted to look after the issue of national security and that does take precedence over individual interests.....that doesn't change the fact that at times individuals are unfairly trodden on.

No State can exist and be strong enough to fight off aggressors unless at times it takes actions that some people find objectionable......however at the end of the day we are better off with some of the jerks that take office here rather than being under the power of a Stalin, Mao or Hitler.

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), September 21, 1999.

Craig,

Stuff your pollyanna "it can't happen here" sunshine.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE between human nature in Germany, China, etc., and human nature in the United States. You are all for letting them bend us over and violate us "just a little bit, for our own good" as long as the words "national security" are spoken, to make it alright.

I say that if we give them an inch, they'll take a country mile. And we've given them a god damned YARD. We've let a globalist camel into the tent - the farm is being sold out from under us; our Constitutional Republic is being backed to the wall. And what these blackhearted greedy bastards have planned for us is going to make the Nazi holocaust look like an ice cream social.

Wake up Craig. You're expendable.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 21, 1999.