Last Wednesday, the City of Oakland (CA) sponsored a day-long event for Bay Area ministers/"faith-based communities" called "Shared Solutions." It featured a wide array of speakers, including one from the President's Council on Y2K, a CA Assembly member, the Mayor of Oakland (Jerry Brown), the head of the Red Cross, spiritual leaders and others.

The essence of the message to ministers was that *WE* are the ones who have the "moral obligation" to educate and inform our congregations that they need to prepare for Y2K - and that after our congregations are prepared, then they need to encourage and support preparation among their friends, families and neighbors - and so on. Because, after all, if things go badly, where do people turn for help???? Why, to the churches, of course. So... if we don't get our people ready, then we won't be able to help all the "unchurched" who will rush to us for help! AND....once we are aware of the potential crisis, we are exhorted by scripture to "sound the trumpet" and prepare our people - or else the moral consequences of the suffering that follows will fall on us, as failed shepherds.

Now I understand that they are very worried about people who are too poor to prepare, or who suffer the loss of disability, SS or welfare checks, becoming upset and possibly causing a civil disturbance. They hope the churches and their members will be influential enough - AND PREPARED ENOUGH - to forestall such an occurrence.

To drive home the need, the presentations were NOT happy-face. One person said it might be like "going back to horse-and-buggy days - except we no longer have horses or buggies." Many pastors were being made aware of the seriousness of the problem for the first time - and the implication was that they could just go tell their congregations, then everyone would prepare, and then they could get their communities prepared. No sweat. Sound the trumpet.

Well. I got a little upset, to say the very least. I went to the mic and told them what happened when I tried to "sound the trumpet" to MY church. I gave two talks about Y2K - first in November, 1998, then in February, 1999, the week of the Senate Report. My church split in half. I wrote about it here (it's in the archives somewhere). I told them about being pathologized. And I told them that it was ludicrous to charge a pastor with this responsibility when all federal, state, and local officials are busy saying everything is hunky-dory!! Why should the Y2K "hot potato" get passed off from the White House to MY lap?? Why should people listen to me, when all "official" reports are exuding optimism? I told them that I had been silenced by my community, because I had no backup. I don't even remember all I said, except I looked each one in the eye, and asked them why they weren't standing up and being counted, speaking the truth. I sat down to a (totally unexpected) tidal wave of applause.

The most interesting reply came from the guy from the President's Council - he basically said that Bill Clinton had faced the same dilemma: that if he came out loud and strong about potential dangers and urging people to prepare, that it would have split the country in half, much as it did my church. And that might have made the outcome even worse, if the split had not only occurred but deeply divided this country in the crucial months leading up to Y2K (I am articulating my understanding of his point here, not quoting his words per se). So I was led to understand that TPTB had also been "silenced" by the potential of social fracture, and the need for as much time, energy and unified effort as possible to go toward remediation.

Now, given the deep divisions that already exist in our country, I can see the merit of this choice - I can understand it - even as it greatly disturbs me. Because while it has bought us time, I believe it may lead to a HUGE panic once people realize what they're actually up against (and I said this to the panel in no uncertain terms). The clergy cannot be the "solution." Maybe there is no solution, we just have to go through it, essentially unprepared for the worst. And many may die as a result.

What I realized, however, is that Y2K is a true Gordian knot. There is no right answer, no correct policy - no one really knows what will happen re cascading technical failures, so all the attention is focused on the all-too-predictable human reactions. But what I realized, bottom line, is they are SCARED.

When even the government turns to the clergy in desperation to do SOMEthing for the people, the unknown looms very large indeed.

-- (snoozin@no.more), September 18, 1999

Answers

yes pastor, when i asked LORD whaty2k was all about. he said=division. remember JESUS said you,ll know em buy there FRUIT. not great=sermon,s.--heck the bank,s want you to sugar-coat y2k. Y2K is a wake-up call. keep WALKIN[with jesus] in spite of the MOCKIN of the doomed.---remember 'this world-system is passing away.BLESSED are the poor [humble] in spirit.BLESSED are the merciful.--soon the wicked & un-godly will be gone.[they speak there own judgement]

-- split-time. (dogs@zianet.com), September 18, 1999.

I think this fits in with what Paula Gordon has been saying, about the President's Council having decided to step up the preparedness message in October.

-- Lane Core Jr. (elcore@sgi.net), September 18, 1999.

The Mormon church for years and years have always encouraged their church members to have a pantry full of food. I wonder how many DGIs will seek out Mormon families, and how many Mormons will proselytize people into their church. It will be no wonder what an empty stomach will do. The Mormons by far have had it all figured out a long time ago.

-- ready set go (readysetgo@readysetgooo.com), September 18, 1999.

If the mormons have any say in it, Salt Lake City is more than likely lock up/shut down "non-members need not apply!" The devout mormon is charitable, but only to a certain degree. I hope they are prepared and best of luck to them, (and everyone else!)

-- Billy-Boy (Rakkasn@Yahoo.com), September 18, 1999.

Actually, one of the main speakers was the President of the local Mormon Stake (governing 10 wards), and one of the breakout sessions featured a Mormon couple. The Mormon attitude toward preparation was well-presented and encouraged as a model for other church groups, on a smaller scale, of course, given the time restraints.

-- (snoozin@no.more), September 18, 1999.

If it all really does hit the fan..the church for the first time in a LONG time will be in a position to make great strides forward in the areas of 'community' and 'neighborhood'. Ask any of the old folks who live in the city...they'll tell you all about what it was like "on the block, back in the day" Far too long have we forgotten the meaning of belonging to a community/congregation. The y2k issue might be the best thing to happen to the church in a long time...after all...all the knowledge from the long distant past, Plato Socrates... we have today is due to the church saving it and transcribing it thru the dark ages.

-- Billy-Boy (Rakkasn@Yahoo.com), September 18, 1999.

Soozin

Sounds like a social Fix on Failure. Good luck!

-- Brian (imager@home.com), September 18, 1999.

'including one from the President's Council on Y2K,'

Do you remember who this was?

I have to admit this is so surreal, I'm having difficulty believing it even happen... How dare they wait this late and crawl out of the woodwork to create a new twist. They have done so much damage already. And the churches are suppose to fill in the gap they created and get everyone prepared in 3 months?!!!

They better be out in full force with this new spin and supporting the church leaders publicly and in a big way. Otherwise, you're right, they have spun the web so tightly in the other direction, there is little likelihood that anyone will change their positions now.

-- Shelia (Shelia@active-stream.com), September 18, 1999.

The following paragraph particularly got my attention:

"The most interesting reply came from the guy from the President's Council - he basically said that Bill Clinton had faced the same dilemma: that if he came out loud and strong about potential dangers and urging people to prepare, that it would have split the country in half, much as it did my church. And that might have made the outcome even worse, if the split had not only occurred but deeply divided this country in the crucial months leading up to Y2K (I am articulating my understanding of his point here, not quoting his words per se). So I was led to understand that TPTB had also been "silenced" by the potential of social fracture, and the need for as much time, energy and unified effort as possible to go toward remediation."

I wonder if you might be able to get the name of the person who made those remarks. There is a young man on the Council staff who has responsibilities for the Community Conversations initiative. I wonder if he might be the person?

Very interesting and revealing remarks whoever made them. If there is a transcript, it would be interesting to get the exact words.

I have tried in my White Paper to analyze where the President and the Administration are coming from with regard to Y2K. I have been trying to figure out why they were not treating Y2K as a crisis and why they were not doing everything they could to encourage the public to take preparedness steps. I have been trying to get answers to these questions since May of 1998. In Part 4 of my White Paper which is freely available on the web, I offer an explanation for the relative inaction of the President and the Administration. I hope you have a chance to read that and see if you think that it fits with what the Council spokesperson was saying.

From my perspective, keys to understanding where the President is coming from are the following:

1) He does not want to unsettle the public and disrupt the economy which would likely happen if the public realized that the nation and the world are facing a crisis; and

2) He is taking the chance of waiting until the rollover to assume a leadership role then.

This represents a huge and tragic miscalculation. He has not understood the nature and scope of the problem and while he evidently is at least at a 4 or 5 on the impact scale, he does not seem to have advisors who understand or who have explained to him that there may be a substantial number of technological disasters accompanying the "localized" infrastructure disruptions. If he understood that fact alone, surely he would be doing far more. For instance, he certainly would have been on NRC's case for over a year to make sure that there are no problems with US nuclear power plants. I have no sense that he understands the unaddressed issues in that high risk, high hazard sector, let alone all the others: chemical plants, oil and gas pipelines, refineries, hazardous materials facilities and sites, dams, and water purification and waste disposal plants. In most all these areas, the stewardship role that the government could and should have been playing has not been taken. The President's Council has not seen it as their responsibility. Neither has the President. Neither have the many agencies whose mandates requires that they intervene to prevent and respond to emergency situations.

In Part 5 of my White Paper, just posted in the past few days, I try to spell out the consequences of two essentially different scenarios: continuing on with the status quo scenario OR doing everything that is possible in the time remaining to minimize the impacts that can be expected. The latter course could ential waking up the President now to his need to treat the Y2K and embedded systems crisis as a crisis and do everything that can be done in the few months remaining to do the following:

1) make sure that there are a minimum number of technological disasters occurring after the rollover and

2) make sure that the public understands that the crisis could be at least a level 5 (if that is what he believes) and that everyone need to get prepared so that there will be the best possible chance of the social fabric holding together and so that impacts on life, health, and public safety and the environment will be minimized.

Even at this late date, much could be done to accomplish these aims.

The White Paper is filled with initiatives that could be implemented.

Indeed faith-based communities could do much to play a leadership role. If the Federal government continues to shirk its responsibility and if no Churchillian leadership is forthcoming from the Administration, then other parts of the public and private sector need to step in and fill the void.

In addition to reading my White Paper, I would also encourage you to study the videos at my real video website. The White Paper and the video taped panel programs and presentations have been offered to help people understand the nature and scope of the mess that we are in and what can still be done about it.

My GW website also contains a list of references and resources that should be helpful to anyone who is trying to get up to speed quickly concerning this whole daunting subject.

Tapes of the July 1999 Conference that was held at GW University in Washington DC should begin going up on the web soon at the real video website noted below.

All the URLs are included here:

For Parts 1 - 5 of a White Paper on Y2K by Paula Gordon, see http://www.gwu.edu/~y2k/keypeople/gordon. For a Y2K Audio/Video webpage of Y2K related programs, see http://www.y2kapproaches.com/real/pgordon.htm. The videotaped proceedings of the July 1999 GW Y2K Conference will soon be posted there. For comments on the conference and copies of prepared statements and related material, see http://www.gwu.edu/~y2k/keypeople/gordon/1999conference.

Thanks so much for posting your question.

-- Paula Gordon (pgordon@erols.com), September 18, 1999.

THE GOVT. of the people? needs time to get the fences up, so that when the herd start stampeding, they can corral em.hey you mustangs head for the hills.---why do squirrels survive hard winters?

-- I GET IT. (dogs@zianet.com), September 19, 1999.

Where's that separation of church and state that I've heard so much about?

Sheesh, first the Banker's Sermon, now the *State* Sermon. What next? Political Officers assigned to he Board of Deacons? [g]

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), September 19, 1999.

It is always better to face up to a problem early, before it gets worse. Reality isn't changed by ignoring it. That's why courage is such an essential part of a leader's character. Comes in handy for everyone, come to think of it.

Hopefully the Y2K bug will turn out to be essentially trivial (and it didn't matter if it wasn't fixed anyway). If not...what a great chance to show how welfare isn't the best way to take care of people.

If the area is impossible to assist in, then it seems it would be good to leave now, like you'd evacuate an area around a volcanoe about to blow.

Otherwise, Jesus washed his disciples' feet. We should follow his example.

-- S. Kohl (kohl@hcpd.com), September 19, 1999.

Paula, thanks for your input. I appreciate the work you've done on this issue. But I have to disagree with your assertion that "even at this late date, much could be done..."

It is TOO LATE for most people to prepare adequately. I've been fully aware of the possible consequences of Y2K since October 1997, and hecticly preparing since early 1998. I'm just now trying to finish up my preparations for your projection of what Y2K might bring if the present course continues (9.5 or higher).

The government and the media have done such a good job of convincing everyone that there will be only minor Y2K problems (if there are any problems at all!) that it's going to take a drastic change in tone to move the herd toward preparing. Even if this could be done in the next few months (which I doubt), the supply lines undoubtedly couldn't handle the vastly increased demand.

I'm resigned to believing that our government's handling of this problem will increase the severity of it. Unfortunately, at a crucial time in American history, there were no real leaders to be found (in either political party). Our poll-driven "leadership" will cost this country dearly, I'm afraid.

-- Nabi (nabi7@yahoo.com), September 19, 1999.

very few churches are prepared---shame-shame.AND shame on govt. for trying to pass the buck. i sure feel terrible,for the poor single moms with little-ones. GOD HELP BACKSLIDDEN AMERICA.

-- resting in jesus. (dogs@zianet.com), September 19, 1999.

Snoozin (no more) I am sure that when you posted before, I posted the quote below. It will always be relevant.

 Urban Survival - Y2KChaos The Y2K Survival Site
 

ONE OF MY ELDERS PUT IT THIS WAY

"Our Church is built on the San Andreas Fault and in the middle of
100,000 poor people. And on the edge of about 6 million more poor
people in the midst of 12 million of people who make up one of the
most immoral and corrupt areas on earth. If we're not ready for a large
public, social catastrophe, and if we're not ministering to all those
around us who have faced private civilization-ending catastrophes in
their own life, how do we think we are prepared to serve our Lord
under any circumstances good or bad? Remember, He withered a fig
tree for bearing no fruit and it wasn't even in season. Imagine what He
must think of us ignoring the most basic opportunity to be prepared to
minister in His name and that's entirely aside from Y2K monsters under
the bed."

Paula

I am the most active Canadian on the board and watch the US closely. They seem to be playing poker with very high stakes. The only reason I can see for the minimalization of the problem is that it will get fixed in an atmosphere "calm".

My awareness started during the Ice Storm up here and it was the greatest natural disaster in Canadian history. Y2K was measured against that. It was a wake up call. Now the US has had one of the largest disasters ever, but there isn't two years left like Canadians have had.

Now I am not saying that Canada will not have problems but to contingency plan for our nation the Army was put in charge and that would not be as welcome in the Excited States as it is in Canada. Some one has to be in charge. You have Koskinen. In the US it was made a business priority and in Canada it was made a civil priority. Example : we don't have anything like the Y2K Act (a scary document in it's own right), legal considerations are on the back burner compared to "high contact entities". It would be interesting to compare the Canadian strategy and the US.

Plus I don't think you have considered the female element involved. Men think differantly. Derring do you know. And Clinton seems to have lots of "Balls". But it will be the women that have to look after the childern. What do the women think in general? Y2K for the most part seems to be conserned about the "male attitude".

Some thoughts.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), September 19, 1999.

Regarding the Oakland meeting: the following were invited speakers -- this is from the city of Oakland's website --->Y2k section ---> upcoming events ---

http://oaklandnet.com/government/government55.html

Mayor Jerry Brown, who said "churches should be prepared and we should all be concerned," will welcome the participants to the conference. Invited speakers and discussion group leaders include Harold Brooks (C.E.O., Bay Area Chapter, American Red Cross), Robert Burnett (Co-Founder, Cisco Systems), Bishop Cummins (Catholic Diocese of Oakland), Chuck Eckerman (Year 2000 Coordinator, CPP), Leigh Shein (Chief of Staff, President's Council on Y2K), J. Alfred Smith Sr. (Pastor, Allen Temple Baptist Church), William Ulrich (President of Tactical Strategy Group, Inc.), and Wheeler Winstead (National Congress for Community Economic Development). Representatives from the Small Business Administrations (SBA) and FEMA will being there to answer your questions.

-- (fiver@yahoo.com), September 19, 1999.

It was easily predictable that TPTB would find someone to blame it on; looks like it's going to be the churches. For those of you who missed it, one of my neighbors, very active in her church, VFW, Elks, etc., told me about Y2K that her church believes "God will provide." It's a large Methodist Church but I have no doubt that Baptist and other conservative churches in this area will trust in the same philosophy. In light of snoozin's post, the implications are extremely worrying, to say the least.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), September 19, 1999.

"Clinton has kept quiet because he didn't want to split the country?"

Since when did he care about that. It has been polarized ever since he took office. If he really cared he would have resigned instead of pointing his finger.

Paula, I have wrestled with how much the President really knows about y2k. There are legitimate concerns about how he will deal with y2k. I'll leave it at that. I am holding on to hope.

As a pastor I have been after my church for two years to get prepared and sound the trumpet. But I have been a lone voice. The bankers on my board are opposed to the warning. The gov's 2-3 day storm warning effectively made my warnings sound shrill.

So I started and moderated a county y2k group. In the past year we have had close to 200 people attend. Out of 100k in the county that is not many. The herd as a whole is grazing in the grass lulled to sleep by scared gov officials.

I agree with Nabi. IT IS TOO LATE. The herd will stampede. I have cancelled all future y2k meetings to protect those who are preparing.

They want the church to now warn the people. That's a joke. It will never happen until the gov. warns the people. The Fed runs this country. Greenspan's latest remarks are the high priest's commandments from the throne of mammon. Until the fed starts telling the truth the gov never will and the pastors don't stand a chance. 99% of the pastors are DGI's. Those who are GI have been paying a heavy price. I'm done warning.

I have tried to relocate but God is keeping me here. There will be children and widows to help. God will be with me. I have no fear. But a lot of people are going to get hurt. All for the love of money.

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), September 19, 1999.

Sonnzin,

IF this event actually took place...I would assume that you are a TROLL but the ONE thing that makes it somewhat believable is Jerry Brown. I don't think that Jerry would stand to be part of a bullsh*t operation. BTW, where was the MEDIA coverage of the event...could someone post even a local paper's documenting that the meeting did take place??

I guess I had an advantage in that we had our Y2K meeting here in Central Arizona the weekend PRIOR to the Senate report. There was the consensus that it would require 2 to 3 weeks of preps. As a result, I have tried to get to that level of preps and perhaps a bit more. No spin, and NO FEDS to Happy Face the meeting. EVERYTHING afterwards was SPIN, POLITICIZATION and POLARIZATION! If people die as a result, then the deaths are on the heads of the politicians REPUBLICAN and DEMOCRAT alike.

I am so angry that I am SPITTING NAILS!!

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@ It's ALL going away in January.com), September 19, 1999.

>>It is TOO LATE for most people to prepare adequately.<<

Well I supposed that the operant word is "adequately", however I disagree that it is too late for people to begin laying in water, food batteries, medical supplies. Beans and rice, people,...canned fruit and veggies, new garbage cans with lids for water storage. Every little bit my neighbors put by makes my neighborhood more viable.

--it's why She wears a sheet, and yells from the hill.

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), September 19, 1999.

Old Git,

As to the Churches and Synagogues being blamed, well that just doesn't cut the mustard...it doesn't even ...lick the jar!!

The public record of not only the US, but Britain, Canada Austrailia and New Zealand will refute that blame accusation.

Still so angry I'm SPITTING NAILS!!

-- K. Stevens (Kstevens@ It's ALL going away in January.com), September 19, 1999.

Old Git sez -- "one of my neighbors, very active in her church... told me about Y2K that her church believes 'God will provide.'"

To paraphrase an old joke:

There's a big storm coming. The radio is filled with announcements to evacuate the area, as it is prone to heavy flooding. A "true believer" says to himself, "God will save me." After most of the local populace has evacuted, and the storm hits, the police go around, house to house, to try to get the straglers to leave. The "true believer" says he will stay, because "God will save me." When the flooding begins, a few people go around in small boats to pick up any straglers remaining, but the "true believer" stays in his home because "God will save me." When the flood waters rise, and the "true believer" is forced onto the roof of his house, a helicopter flies over head, but he waves it away because "God will save me." Then the "true believer" is swept from the roof and drowns in the flood waters. When he gets to heaven, he asks God, "I was a devout and good Christian all my life! Why did you let me drown in that flood?" to which God responds, "I sent you warnings on the radio, I sent the police to your house. I sent a boat to you when the floods began. I even had a helicopter fly overhead. I don't think you were paying attention..."

(Of course it probably could be said funnier than this...)

So, is that what it means that "about Y2K that her church believes 'God will provide.'"??? If so, maybe they are dealing with the same kind of myopia. Maybe they're not paying attention.

-- (dot@dot.dot), September 19, 1999.

By the way, I guess we've coined a phrase 'to Happy Face' transitive verb, as in...The FEDS Happy Faced the meeting. LOL if it weren't so pathetic!

Still so angry I am SPITTING NAILS

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@ It's ALL going away in January.com), September 19, 1999.

K. Stevens:

Yes, this event did really take place - someone above posted the list of guest speakers from the City of Oakland web site. It was covered by Paul Cobb, Religion Editor for the Oakland Tribune. Since I don't get that paper, I haven't seen the article. His eyes were opened as well. He called it the "story nobody wanted to cover" but - with only 100 days remaining - he now has "about 38 stories" he wants to get before the public. The problem is - editorial staff believe it is a non-story that the public has no interest in reading.

He pointed out that one letter requesting coverage implies 3-5,000 readers who are interested. 100 letters = 3-500,000 readers. Start writing your local papers asking for coverage, get your GI friends to write too!!

-- (snoozin@no.more), September 19, 1999.

One must also be a bit "forgiving" of the churches. After all, wasn't it just last week that they were directed by Banker's to tell their flocks that all would be well in the banking industry so leave your dollars in the bank? This week we are telling them to prepare? Doesn't that put the churches in the same delemma as we are in? Whom do you believe? Which way do you go? And it all boils down to that old thing about truth in government, are they or aren't they telling the truth and what is the right thing to do - take a chance on creating a panic or getting a few more prepared so there will be less to take care of? All this because the leadership has been dilly- dallying for the last year or so spinning away. Kudo's to Dr. Gordon for trying to wake people up. Someone on the Y2K show that was aired locally said it well last night, "We are on a blind date with destiny."

And I feel like spitting nails this morning too!! Grrrr!

-- Valkyrie (anon@please.net), September 19, 1999.

Snoozin,

My apology for the tone of my first post. It's just unbelievable the way this whole situation has developed. At least Oakland has a mayor who gives a damn. Here, our mayor is carrying on with politics as usual while we are expecting failure of WATER, SEWER, and TRAFFIC! Just the BASICS! BTW, our mayor naturally skipped the February conference. The State sent a several emergency management types who were quite open about cooperation whth the military authorities (one of them is the state liason officer who has his office at National Guard headquarters.) All in all, it was very informative.

Then the Senate Report came out, and both the Republican and Democrat spin began. Bennett said "Bump in the road" but added that he wasn't specifying how high the bump was. Naturally that part was left out in press reports. If people die as a result, the politicos are the ones to blame.

Still so angry I am SPITTING NAILS!!!

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@ It's ALL going away in January.com), September 19, 1999.

Yes, the event was real. Go to:

http://www.newschoice.com/newspapers/alameda/tribune/default.asp

search on "cobb" or "Y2k" - you'll find articles.

-- fiver (fiver@yahoo.com), September 19, 1999.

Thanks snoozin,

From my perspective it isn't too difficult to understand why the government has been "mixed" in it's message about Y2k. I think Brian makes a great point that remediation had to take place in a calm environment and raising alarm bells early would only make the situation more difficult. The reason is because it's likely people within the government actually believed and maybe still do believe that all the problems could be fixed in time.

Paula, I so appreciate the work you're doing and I've learned much through your words and efforts. However, I came to the understanding after much reflection that the government cannot act in a proactive manner. If you look at our history you'll see that the only time the US government acts with serious resolve is after a conflict or disaster occurs. The bottom line is that under our "free market system' the responsibility for preparation of private entities with regard to possible Y2k failures resides within the private entity.

We should make a move now, as a community, to push for action to see that entities that could pose serious health risks are dealt with. We should do this from the grass roots and bring pressure to bare to ensure that all safety precautions are made. The senators who were pushing this issue must have had good reason for their concern.

On the other hand, with regard to public entities where the government does have responsibility, it's likely they just thought they would fix every mission critical system in time. After all, we're talking ONLY the mission critical systems, right? How many can there be? Surely, this effort is much less than fixing ALL systems. I know you and I both agree that the government started off with a huge misunderstanding of the scope and seriousness of the problem. Now, with 100 days to go, the "end game" as Mr. Yourdon has so rightly described this time is upon us.

I also believe that there are "splits". The same splits we see in our community with our neighbors MUST be occuring within the rank and file of the government and *other* more sensitive areas as well. There must be GIs and DGIs and DWGIs in all parts and within all efforts with regard to Y2k. I think the government is chasing it's tail right now and rightly worried about outside interests with dangerous agendas.

It makes perfect sense that the areas responsible for keeping faith alive would be handed the task of preparing their communities. There is absolutely no realistic way the government can take on the task of taking care of all the people in this country. And, by fault or design, they missed the chance to motivate people early to do this on their own.

It is too late. Not everyone can prepare in time. The system would break under the stress of the effort. That is where faith comes in.

snoozin, what you write is what my perceptions have led me to believe prior to your post. It's strange and facinating that much that is coming to pass has been discussed here, at length, since the time that Mr. Yourdon first started this board. Go back, read the archives. It's truly amazing.

I tried to get my family and friends to take all of this seriously. I hope now that they will when the message changes. I think Lane had it dead on when he wrote about the October shift...

Sorry I got wordy...thanks for letting me rant a little.

Mike

=============================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), September 19, 1999.

Couldn't find a report on teh meeting, only the following announcement:

Faith-based groups to meet, discuss strategies for Y2K

Monday August 23, 1999

By Paul Cobb CORRESPONDENT

"Y2K is like an earthquake with a certain date on it, and when some people turn to religious leaders or faith-based groups in times of trouble, we must be prepared and ready to meet the demands and challenges ahead," said the Rev. Ray Williams, head of the St. John District Association and pastor of Morning Star Baptist Church.

The city of Oakland's Y2K Community Preparedness Partnership (CPP) is sponsoring an event called "Shared Solutions: Faith-Based Communities Unite Around Year 2000 Issues." This one day conference will take place Wednesday, Sept. 15, from 7:30 a.m. to 4 p.m. at the Henry J. Kaiser Convention Center in Oakland.

Leading Bay Area clergy members will discuss and learn how to approach challenges posed by Y2K. The city is inviting more than 2,500 churches, synagogues, mosques and other faith-based organizations.

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going," says Chuck Eckerman, Shared Solutions facilitator and City of Oakland's Year 2000 coordinator. "One of the most pressing needs is to find community leaders willing to take a stand in promoting preparedness for something as difficult as disruptions from Y2K."

The Rev. Williams also serves as vice chair of CERT (Citizens' Emergency Relief Team), the organization that led the effort to reroute the Cypress Freeway after the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake.

"In the event some of our vulnerable population groups, elderly, disabled, young children or others existing on the margins, are trapped without food, water, electricity, transportation or medical care, we must have a contingency plan," Williams said.

Mayor Jerry Brown agreed with Williams' message to the clergy community when he said, "churches should be prepared and we should all be concerned."

Brown will meet with clergy representatives to encourage their participation in the Y2K event.

Eckerman said the event's morning schedule, after breakfast, will include:

An overview and explanation of Year 2000 issues;

Faith-based organizations' specific challenges;

Community and individual preparedness;

Community Strategies for Faith-based organizations.

After lunch, the following topics will be discussed:

Tools for Preparing Your Organizations' Computers and Embedded Chip Systems;

Contingency Planning for Faith-Based Organizations;

Communicating with Your Congregation about Preparedness;

Seizing the Year 2000 as an Opportunity to Reach out to Those in Need;

Community Building;

Health and Human Service Issues.

Community Preparedness Partnership, the event sponsor, is a community outreach alliance of representatives from the city, nonprofit community outreach groups. The CPP has conducted over 100 presentations at town hall meetings, community and faith-based meetings throughout Oakland.

"Faith-based leaders can now unite to offer some sane solutions to an abundance of misinformation and confusion about this millennial event," said the Rev. D.J. Williams, pastor of Wings of Love Church at the Eastmont Computing Center (ECC) which sponsors a network of 49 churches that receive computer support training.

David Glover, director of OCCUR which sponsors ECC, said "the Y2K is an opportunity for faith-based groups to launch the RE2K (Renewal and Reentry 2000) as a positive approach of preparedness and skills training for entering the 21st century rather than the doom and gloom of hopelessness we often see in the media."

A recent report from the Governor's Office of Emergency Services credits Oakland "with leading the way and setting a model for communities" in Y2K outreach.

Representatives from the White House, the governor's office, the county and the National Congress of Community Economic Development will help conduct workshops.

For more information please call (510) 420-5772.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), September 19, 1999.

When I tried to share information with relatives, they either panicked and got unproductively stressed, or ignored it. Once I'd given enough information to duly warn someone, then I quit warning them. Each adult has the ability to be responsible, and the right to choose not to be (complaints about consequences aren't justified, though).

However, our preparations aren't something we hide from anyone. I'd defend the kids from attack, otherwise, we'd try to work things out. Adults can, after all, survive almost two months without food, and water is plentiful here.

What is "adequately prepared"? I'm prepared to help 25 other people. Is that overkill, or underprepared? I don't care much. We can consume it before it goes bad, if nothing happens, so I don't consider it overkill (a waste). And we could probably help more, in a pinch, considering what concentration camp prisoners made do with...

Perhaps veryone can't get "adequately prepared," but they could sure do more than they are. Shelves should be consistently empty, so preparation is maximized. But maybe that would rev up our "too hot" economy too much?

I have found that people ignored my words, and in fact usually countered them with the same stuff the government is using to calm people. But in many cases, as they saw what I was doing, they surreptitiously started to do the same thing. Soon they stopped being surreptitious about it, once they got used to it I guess. I did give the people I cared most about more "words," but even people I said nothing to noticed what I was doing, and over time have started doing preparations too.

I don't act embarrassed about my preparations, because I'm not embarrassed about them. And if it comes up in conversation ("Where did you go Saturday?" "Oh, we took the kids to a museum and picked up some rice and sugar for Y2K."), I am open about it.

I think visible action wakes people up better than words. Or maybe people are just natural mimics, who knows?

-- S. Kohl (kohl@hcpd.com), September 19, 1999.

I was at the Oakland meeting last week (and talked to "snoozin" at lunch)and just wanted to add a few things.

The first is that it looked as if the meeting had been planned to accommodate over 1000 people but far less than 100 were in attendance, despite what appeared to have been a big outreach effort by the organizers. So the conference itself was a victim of the same Happy Face talk that is making it so difficult to get people motivated.

Although Jerry Brown was there to give a brief welcoming talk, he seemed to see Y2K more as an opportunity to build community than a real danger to prepare for. While the city has been fairly active in promoting Y2K prep, I think that the major impetus for it is coming from two citizen groups, not from the city's leadership.

Lee Schein, from the President's Council, did, to my surprise, support the need to prepare, and I found that encouraging. However, the message was far too low key to have much of an impact in light of the pervasive Happy Face talk that we are constantly being subjected to.

Oh, well, maybe it _will_ just be a bump in the road. I think that's about the only way we're going to come out of this o.k.

-- dhg (dhgold@pacbell.net), September 20, 1999.

I can see why K.Stevens is spitting nails. He should develop this productive capacity to help the reconstruction.

This nation has been actively destroying the 'community of faith' for 75 years. The nation has divorced itself from wisdom and rationality. There was a bumper sticker back in the 70's that read: 'The next time you need a cop call a hippy.' Well, the same sentiment applies here with different roles. Why don't they talk to all the hedonistic rock stars and hollywood reprobates??? That is the new religion here. This whole 'pastors must be the heralds' thing is a crock.

The nation and its leaders will go down together, I'm sorry to say. We have played the 'image' game too long and now that same mentality is a disability to deal with reality.

My heart goes out to the pastors who have tried to warn and have been destroyed. All the other pastors know the score and the ones who are even tempted to mention Y2K and preparedness in the same breath know they will be destroyed in a similar fashion..and that is why they have not mentioned it.

Snooze,

You are a true and faithful friend of Christ. I'm glad you went for it. At least half of the church heard you and that's a sight better than none. There are others who have been fired for mentioning it at all. This is the truest indicator of our moral and spiritual decline - when we fail to hear the truth and destroy those who say it.

May God have mercy on us all!

-- ..- (dit@dot.dash), September 20, 1999.

The Oakland Tribune

http:/ /www.newschoice.com/newspapers/alameda/tribune/

Search the archives to get this one...

Meeting readies faith community for Y2K disruption WE'RE IN THE last 100 days before 2000 and possible computer problems.

Sunday September 19, 1999

"As we prepare for Y2K, something surprising and quite wonderful is going to happen," says Eric Utne. "We're going to get to know our neighbors."

Hurricane Floyd, the Loma Prieta earthquake and other "acts of God" can cause us to know each other better and depend on one another for survival.

This past week, interfaith leaders who rarely share other pulpits shared survival sermons on how to prepare their congregants for potential Y2K disruptions caused by computers that can't read 2000.

"We all came to this country on different boats and some of us worship God differently, but this Y2K dilemma has put us all in the same boat: We must prepare our people to prevent panic and we must make sure that our seniors and other vulnerable groups are cared for," said the Rev. Frank Pinkard, pastor of Evergreen Baptist Church, at Wednesday's city-sponsored conference on "Shared Solutions: Faith-Based Communities Unite Around Y2K Issues."

Bishop John Cummins, head of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Oakland, opened the day-long conference urging all clergy to provide survival information to their congregants. "Y2K is a big question mark," said Oakland Mayor Jerry Brown. "It's all about 'what if' the vaunted power of technological power fails us momentarily, (and) we need to return to self-sufficiency."

Brown gave the conference a sobering wake-up call when he noted that citizens "may be on your own for at least 72 hours before the city can provide assistance. So we should sense the spirit that binds us together and explore ways to take the next steps together."

Brown, a former seminarian, said because the world is now electronically wired together, "we are interdependent, we must prepare early and demonstrate our cohesion under stress."

Wheeler Winstead, director of Faith-based Community for the National Congress for Community Economic Development, said, "The threat of Y2K also presents an opportunity to see the hidden blessings of surveying our congregations and surrounding communities' needs so we can provide spiritual, emotional counseling as well as food, water and emergency shelter."

Winstead warned church leaders to proactively establish contacts, networks and contingency plans in collaboration with others because if a disruption occurs "the community will be looking to churches for water, food, clothing, money, shelter and other necessities."

Ralph Severson, president of Oakland Stake of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS), answered questions from Pinkard and the Rev. Susan Galvan on how to communicate with a congregation "without being laughed at" by some.

Severson explained how LDS members store food, water, emergency supplies and communication equipment as "basic tenets of our faith. Preparedness and self-reliance is core to our doctrine. Our spiritual and temporal welfare program emphasizes education, physical health employment, home storage, resource management and spiritual, emotional and social strength."

Malcolm Warner, LDS mission president, demonstrated how each congregant could create a 72-hour portable backpack-survival kit He showed pastors how to start a basic food/water/emergency storage program.

"By working together, we can learn from the Mormons," said luncheon keynote speaker, the Rev. Dr. J. Alfred Smith. Sr., pastor of Allen Temple Baptist Church. "We should not propound a doomsday dogma misreading the biblical book of Revelations, but rather we should join our hands together with our belief in God's power and positively determine to do it together.

"God has called us to cooperate because technology has made us a neighborhood, but not a brotherhood," Smith said.

He called on the clergy not to be discouraged or "act defeated by the impending Y2K mega-crisis. Preparedness is not blind opposition to technological progress, but rather preparedness is opposition to blind technological progress. If we seek God's power through prayer, planning and preparation, we won't suffer a power outage."

Faith-based organizations, community-based groups or individuals seeking Y2K contingency planning information should contact Henry Renteria, director of the city Office of Emergency Services at (510) 238-3938 or Eckerman at (510) 238-7054.

Representatives from the White House, Red Cross and city of Oakland who shared solutions with clergy leaders will help deliver sermons in the area during the next 100 days.

Chuck Eckerman, Y2K coordinator for Oakland's Community Preparedness Partnership, accepted many invitations to "preach the Y2K message."

State Assemblymember Audie Bock encouraged congregations to prepare for any negative ripple effects from earthquakes or possible Y2K disruptions. "We don't need to panic.

We need to acknowledge uncertainty and prepare for it."

) 1999 MediaNews Group, Inc.

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), September 20, 1999.

Can anyone else who attended, confirm the above statement (initial post)?...

...The most interesting reply came from the guy from the President's Council - he basically said that Bill Clinton had faced the same dilemma: that if he came out loud and strong about potential dangers and urging people to prepare, that it would have split the country in half, much as it did my church. And that might have made the outcome even worse, if the split had not only occurred but deeply divided this country in the crucial months leading up to Y2K (I am articulating my understanding of his point here, not quoting his words per se)...

-- (snoozin@no.more), September 18, 1999

Thanks. (I don't doubt you snoozin--just would like some additional confirmations!)

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), September 20, 1999.

Why does anyone here think that God will interevene in Y2K when he didn't intervene when Moses was killing all the innocent tribes of men, women and children for no reason, or when the church, (righteous pious bastards), were burning people at the stake for having a different thought?

-- heretic (heretic@hereticcc.com), September 20, 1999.

Heretic, this thread said nothing about God intervening. It was that the government is now asking clergy to intervene with their congregations and communities, to get out the Y2K message of preparedness. In case you missed it, clergy are being asked to "bail out" the government, which to date has done nothing but "spin" that we will only have a 3-day storm!

P.S. I feel very sorry for you, because when the storm hits, you will be without an Anchor. And please read carefully the Old Testament, and you will see that the peoples God had Moses' followers (Moses himself was no longer on earth when his people entered the Promised Land!) were being JUDGED because of their infanticide, their worship of vile gods that demanded human sacrifice, and their various deadly occultic practices. Does that sound like a modern nation we all know and see going down that path???

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), September 20, 1999.

I spoke out at this meeting because I needed to get some of my personal anguish and anger off my chest by speaking directly to at least one representative of the President's Council, as well as the other "authorities" present. It never occurred to me that my comments would become public. However, it's interesting to me that in the final version of the article, my statement is reduced to a fear of "being laughed at" - and none of the 'meat' of the exchange is included. Too inflammatory, I guess. Of course, church members brought the article to church for me to see, and wondered why I would say such a silly thing. Oh well. At least I wasn't painted as a religous wacko/freakazoid.

-- (snoozin@no.more), September 20, 1999.

Ummm... wow... Y2K really did impact the world. I'm so glad I was prepared...

-- (foo@bar.com), December 01, 2002.