Anyone know where the c4i threads are?greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread |
Didn't he claim to be working for the gov. and doing studies and that the studies predicted widespread infrastructure failure. Maybe he was the one working on those Navy documents. Help, I can't find the threads?
-- ?? (????@???.com), September 13, 1999
Why Paul Milne is a Polly greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --Our apologies to Paul. We knew this would draw the maximum amount of attention. We have a background in C2 (Command and Control). This means we are BIG PICTURE people. We're paid to play the "What If" Game. We're paid to extrapolate information and trend data. We're paid to provide an OVERALL assessment of operations, support, logistics, and socioeconomic and psychological factors for situations. We're paid to plan strategies for the long view. In short it means we have the information, tools, intelligence systems, talent, and know-how at this organization's disposal to reasonably forecast and predict outcomes. We have an 89.3% rate of our forecasts coming true and this is for events without a definitive date. This organization is studying Y2K. Yes, we are DOD. No, we don't like this scenario. We believe it is not only possible, it is probable. Our assessment as follows:
1. Because we the government, and in particular him the CINC, has done nothing public other than preach "the winter storm" the country cannot and will not prepare in a timely fashion. We will go 10. The CINC is in deep denial, and still believes with the VCINC that Gates will pull a rabbit out of his hat.
2. Initial power outages will be 1-2 weeks in the South and Midwest. The Northeast will experience 3-4 week outages, the West and Southwest 2-3 weeks. We're not talking brownouts.
3. Dee Cee will be an armed camp starting 15 Dec 99. There are 120 major cities within the U.S. There are approximately 2.25 million troops; this includes the NG and Reserves. The cities will be chaotic at best and the troops will not be sent in, they will be used to cordon off areas of unrest. Isolate the fire.
4. The following industries will be nationalized: Power, Fuel, Transportation, Agriculture (not individual farms), Chemical, Mining, Pharmaceuticals, Hospitals, and Communications. There will be a bank holiday before the rollover -date determined by the people.
5. Governors will institute Martial Law for heavily populated areas. The CINC will usurp the Governors and declare national Martial Law to restrict interstate travel and to mobilize the work force. The CINC's action will be too much for many in both the military and private sector. The "Militia" groups will mobilize.
6. The Congress will activate the inactive Militia "all able bodied males between the ages of 17 and 45" will report to designated staging and training areas, the hope is to quell dissent and re-establish a Constitutional methodology to the event. The "Militia" actually a pseudo-militia, they have no Constitutional standing, they don't fall under the discipline prescribed by Congress (Art I, Sec 8, Clauses 15 & 16) will balk. Open insurrection ensues
7. Famine and disease will breakout in the parts of the cities not under Martial Law. Fighting is widespread for strategic transportation hubs, fuel depots, armories, and granaries. More service members desert or join the militia. Class warfare ensues.
8. Several missile launch complexes are taken. Negotiation with Dee Cee begins. NORAD falls via an insider. Dee Cee capitulates. There is no definitive timeline other than the panic will ensue Sept-Oct timeframe. To Flint, Anita, Poole, Y2Kpro, and the like who say "hogwash, no-way, can't happen, you're nuts, etc." YOU do not have the information that we have. YOU have proven your inability to analyze. In short YOU lack what we call SA (Situational Awareness). YOU are a danger because you go beyond "questioning your beliefs." You do not acknowledge the negative information presented and act accordingly. -- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999
-------------------------------------- C4I -Comand, Control, Communications, Computers and Intelligence. Countermeasures is down the hall. What would you like? An ASCAS Roster with our names on it: DCID 1/14 SSBI/SBI. Or would you prefer Yankee White. The "Little Pentagon" is currently having thousands of LAN drops put inside. We understand the Navy is moving several thousand employees to the Yard, should have 12K there by 2002. -- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999
-------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- As a former Marine. These guys have the ring of truth. I know lots of current and former military types and intel community types and I believe we will see some similar scenarios as these guys. I do not expect anyone to believe me, in fact I know I am tilting at windmills. Arlin, C4I is command, control, communications and computers, and intelligence. Countermeasures is completely different. The military is FULL of professionals who are distressed to see our country forced to live with no real leadership. They cry at the the thought of our future post y2k. Semper Fidelis, Richard USMC -- Richard, USMC (Rkb65@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999.
-------------------------------------- Sometimes you can't cee the status of things until they are sorted out. Perhaps the third oppropriate thing is to report that. Then I'll make a beeline home, that would be the pinnacle. With regard to the power question, this is the min time. If the power can be turned-back on. You will need to have users. 2nd law of thermo "energy neither created or destroyed" If the power is running and there aren't any users, it has to go somewhere and be expended. The lines will burn. Most manufacturing is not going to know if and when the power is on. They aren't going to be able to maintain a crew there for several weeks. -- c41 (c41xxx@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999.
-------------------------------------- I think I'm going to go with the Marine on this one. However absurd in light of recent Pollyanna bashing, this kind of information could very well be true. It might not. But if I ever get an unscheduled visit from the Armed Forces sometime before or after new years I guess I'll consider myself warned, and act appropriatley. -- (workathome@atl.ga), June 10, 1999.
-------------------------------------- Arlin, Martial Law is completely probable, even with the current numbers. We are talking herd mentality. We are talking a cold, lightless, hungry, frightened society that wants things to be the way they used to be. Big Momma government will be there in spirit and the populace will respond accordingly. However, some will not. Some will be exceedingly angry, some like those on this forum who know that the government knows and isn't doing squat to help mitigate the outcome. They will create action. Do we advocate violence? No. Do we see it as a likely outcome? Yes. Are we members of the militia? No, that would violate our oaths. Do we see circumstances where we will be asked to perform an unconsciounable order? Yes. -- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999.
-------------------------------------- Arlin, You missed the Militia clause, look it up at Cornell U Law Lib. All able bodied male citizens and those who intend to become citizens between the ages of 17 and 45. And of course the Inactive Ready Reserve. It does not take that many troops to cordon off an area. And what will the government do when the Army of free Virginia crosses the Potomac takes over Piney Point? Becasue the event will be widespread, Martial Law is the most efficient means of controlling the populace. People are not going to like that, there will be a crack down. The US government cracking down on its citizens for opposing Martial Law, that will fuel the fire. In addition, all it takes is one launch complex, one. -- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999.
-------------------------------------- My gut feeling is that if this contact is real it is indicative of our military's tendancy to imagine worst case scenarios (I can't help but think of Rod Steiger in Mars Attacks!! - wow did I love that movie) and frankly I don't see how they can do differently. Just like the Naval War College project. It is necessary. A friend's son is a Navy Seal & late last year warned his dad (an open-minded but mainstream public official) that what he was hearing from his sources here and abroad made him feel that family should be preparing for a really rough time for several years after y2k. They are creating a "compound" type residence with all the preps, arms, etc. you can imagine (well maybe not as much as some of you <:). This is a fairly "ordinary" family who has decided to take this seriously. I don't know if it will turn out to have been unneccessary. Anyhow..... -- Kristi (securx@succeed.net), June 10, 1999.
First off, There is No reason for me to believe that guy does not have a lead to real valid info. I have many contacts in Mil. and Gov. that etc.. that tell me quite similar things. Next, the fact that he used a hotmail account is SOP. I, partners and friends do contract work at government and Military locations. Almost EVERY employee has 1 or many Yahoo &/or Hotmail accounts. Now moving on the any tracking of his IP.. I have installed systems at both government and military locations that have use of public ISP's.. meaning .org and .com (even some of their web sites. common known fact) The reasoning in some areas was just quite simple.. fault tolerance and getting the project done and running with out all the hassle and crap that you have to go through. If only you could imagine some of the degraded and convaluted paths many of these types of sites data flows you would never get a good nights rest. I once found that the main secretary to the commands commanding officer had her computer so mixed up (previous contractors, old programs, etc..) that when EVER she printed that it left her desk in VA went to TN and then to FL where they sent it back to her LPT1 port. The government and military have become wild big and hairy clutters of organizations with in organizations. No everything is managed well at all. We have seen this around the country and world. As for the young lady who tells of what her friends (informed) son told his family and how they are preparing. I have many contacts who have been told the same. The problem is money to properly prepare and deciding how extended (family wise) you want to go in your family plan. Also not every family group or memeber can handle the truth. I gets a bit messy. But it just takes any one to contact any and all members of the military, gov., etc.. to see what they know and then plan accordingly. Now, this very important. Arlin Adams is an FBI informant!!! I and others have touched base w/ keeping an eye on him over the years. He is a older middle aged man who is not out in the world, he is partially disabled and does his investigations on the web and via phone contacts (with many groups that don't have everyones best interest in mind.) from his house in MD. Then as far as the missle launch code info that C4i gave out and some one questioned.. He is right. get real people.. how could you 1 truely believe the Pres. is the only 1 who has the code. So many simple business men hold higher security clearences than that figure head. And many many times other branches or departments with in the gov. and mil. don't even keep the Whitehouse informed of what they do. And secondly, once a missle site is compromised all you need are the keys not the codes ever.. the code is just a vehicle for the permission to launch to be given. Simple stuff that you get taught in grade school if the Q & A gets really interesting. Why give this guy such a hard time? And why question his sincerity? Does this mean that many of you are not willing to bend or break a rule or order that you see as unjust in order to do a better good for many?? -- Sincere (4real@concerned.all), June 10, 1999.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- OK, I am back and in quite a bit of a lather. I am always lurking, rarely, rarely ever posting and see much, hear much, speak little. Why even bother with all of this back and forth crap?? In 6 months we shall all see. I believe we are in for some deep doodoo. If you just watch the .gov and .mil, and read between the lines of Bennett and Dodd, you would have to be a friggin moron not to see this (y2k trouble) headin your way. Y2kpro is a putz for even being here cause he sure as hell not changing my mind. Listen people, I am a professional technical recruiter and I deal with PEOPLE all damn day. They are ALL IT geeks of some sort. Managers down to help desk peons. I know this about people and IT: They will never admit to being fouled up until they are up to their ass in alligators and crocodiles. Second thing: PEOPLE LIE TO ME EVERY DAMN DAY. Clients tell me what a wonderful utopia their company is and candidates tell mehow wonderfull they are. My company has found that 70% of all resumes are fraudulent to some degree. Y2k is real people. Why don't we all go home and prepare for hard times. I wish upon a star I could see y2kPro and Norm after the rollover. I am stable, semi-well off, and have a good life. I am not some bed wetter who wants a collapse of my world. My world is 6 figures in salary and the life of riley. I hate this y2k crap. I shall revert back to lurker status now. I need a cold beer and a smoke. Give these guys a break. It sounds real to me. PS-Arlin probably is some cripple spy who likes little boys. Who cares? In 6 months it WILL NOT MATTER! Semper Fidelis, Richard -- Richard, USMC (rkb65@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999.
-------------------------------------- I've been lurking for awhile, and boy are you DoD guys thick. As an old Air Force Command Post weenie this stuff is pretty plain. "Sometimes you can't cee the status of things until they are sorted out." -LOL cee=C status=status sorted=SORTS (Status Of Reports and Training) SORTS C Status- Refers to readiness levels " Perhaps the third oppropriate thing is to report that. Then I'll make a beeline home, that would be the pinnacle."-LOL third=3 oppropriate=OP report=REP beeline=BEELINE (Code for Pentagon) pinnacle=PINNACLE (Code for Nuke Incident) OPREP3 BEELINE PINNACLE -Real Cute -ROTFLMAO I don't know if this guy is real or if he got a copy of the AFMAN 10-206 Operational Reporting and is screwing with us. He knows the right code though. And the DCID stuff, that is the new way of listing a Top Secret clearance. -- phred (y2kdudeman@yahoo.com), June 10, 1999.
-------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- ***********DISCLAIMER*************** I am not an expert in anything. I am not a programmer, a techie, a consultant, an advisor, a geek. I am not a Polly, Doomer, Gloomer I am JQP will some brain cells that still have synapsis making connections. I have an open mind. I keep just enough grains of salt on board to avoid having to take Prozac. I have no outstanding qualifications so therefore the following is merely an opinion mine and mine alone. I have made preparations a lot more than most and not enough according to some. I havent completely made up my mind as to how bad it will all get but firmly believe in hedging bets therefore my extensive preps. Dont bother checking I am not using a real email address. Once again, I am hedging my bets. I must stay gainfully employed (at least) until the end of the year and cannot afford to let my neighbors become overly interested in my preps. Paul Milne my hat off to you for your outspokenness but that is not an option for me. I have been tuning into this forum for several weeks now and have been completely fascinated by the interchange. Today when I opened this post I found myself completely riveted couldnt get a darn thing done at work all day long. At first it scared the bejeebers out of me raised the hairs on the back of my neck and caused pucker factor #11 on a scale of 1-10. Lasted all of 20 seconds. The scary part was not WHAT was posted but that it had been posted and I was reading it. I fully expected the whole site to be shut down and the net police at my desk. 20 seconds. But I digress. I have some thoughts that I would like to pose here. I have formulated one lasting opinion based on this post and that is that ALL of YOU everyone of you has a healthy respect for the written word of DOD dept of defense. You may not like it, want to poke holes in it, and deny it. But somehow when the chips are down WE look to DOD as the barometer as if their thoughts and opinions on the subject were some kind of doomsday indicator. Okay here goes: ***We have a background in C2 (Command and Control). This means we are BIG PICTURE people. We're paid to play the "What If" Game. We're paid to extrapolate information and trend data. We're paid to provide an OVERALL assessment of operations, support, logistics, and socioeconomic and psychological factors for situations. We're paid to plan strategies for the long view. In short it means we have the information, tools, intelligence systems, talent, and know-how at this organization's disposal to reasonably forecast and predict outcomes.*** this is called contingency planning we all do it, most of us for free. Contingency planning is nothing more than a set of options for what might happen. All of us do this routinely. Traffic snarl on the main road take back road back road under construction take side road side road closed call in sick. The whole point is that there is generally a SET of plans more than one, less than a million. Government agencies, contractors and think tanks spend a lot of resources planning for what-if. This is standard no big deal happens everyday. You think up a what if scenario and hundreds of folks are completely happy to pop out a contingency plan for it. Then the real work starts review all the plans, sort them out into catagories, toss out bad ones and finally have a SET of contingency plans that can be put in *THE SAFE*. Take them out periodically, dust them off and start over. ***We have an 89.3% rate of our forecasts coming true and this is for events without a definitive date. This organization is studying Y2K. Yes, we are DOD. No, we don't like this scenario. We believe it is not only possible, it is probable. Our assessment as follows: *** Please understand and give our government enough benefit of the doubt that this is only ONE SCENARIO out of dozens or hundreds that they are building plans for. Ranking scenarios is another activity all its own how many other probable scenarios are there? ***1. Because we the government, and in particular him the CINC, has done nothing public other than preach "the winter storm" the country cannot and will not prepare in a timely fashion. We will go 10. The CINC is in deep denial, and still believes with the VCINC that Gates will pull a rabbit out of his hat. *** I agree. But this is a premise an assumption albeit a pretty reasonable one. It forms the background for the scenario. ***2. Initial power outages will be 1-2 weeks in the South and Midwest. The Northeast will experience 3-4 week outages, the West and Southwest 2-3 weeks. We're not talking brownouts. *** This is a scenario probably not even the worst case one but an assumed scenario nonetheless. So to humor this scenario here is the plan. ***3. Dee Cee will be an armed camp starting 15 Dec 99. *** why this date? Arbitrary? Maybe. Its the start of the federal holiday schedule. Could be that they will have to contend with the early new year celebrants - ***There are 120 major cities within the U.S.*** Okay. Anyone want to start making a list of these urban centers? ***There are approximately 2.25 million troops; this includes the NG and Reserves.*** Depends entirely on how you count them. ***The cities will be chaotic at best and the troops will not be sent in, they will be used to cordon off areas of unrest. Isolate the fire.*** this one has me buffaloed. Do you have any clue how long it takes to mobilize the troops and what is involved in the process? They would have had to start this process months ago. It would take massive amounts of coordination with city/state/federal activities to even make this feasible. Our expert lost a lot of credibility points with me on this one. ***4. The following industries will be nationalized: Power, Fuel, Transportation, Agriculture (not individual farms), Chemical, Mining, Pharmaceuticals, Hospitals, and Communications. There will be a bank holiday before the rollover -date determined by the people.*** reaching you can say it in a letter but actually make it happen see comment above. ***5. Governors will institute Martial Law for heavily populated areas.*** Within the scenario given most predictions of bank runs and general end of year panic reasonable. ***The CINC will usurp the Governors and declare national Martial Law to restrict interstate travel and to mobilize the work force. The CINC's action will be too much for many in both the military and private sector. *** Doubt it but this is another piece of the what if scenario ***The "Militia" groups will mobilize.*** This is a scenario in and of itself - if he is referring to the non- sanctioned militia which I think he is since most folks call the part time military reserve forces. ***6. The Congress will activate the inactive Militia "all able bodied males between the ages of 17 and 45" will report to designated staging and training areas, the hope is to quell dissent and re- establish a Constitutional methodology to the event*** What training areas? so many bases have been closed the military has a hard enough time finding space to train on now. this is also a very lengthy process which is probably why this codicil was added ***. The "Militia" actually a pseudo-militia, they have no Constitutional standing, they don't fall under the discipline prescribed by Congress (Art I, Sec 8, Clauses 15 & 16) will balk. Open insurrection ensues *** ***7. Famine and disease will breakout in the parts of the cities not under Martial Law. Fighting is widespread for strategic transportation hubs, fuel depots, armories, and granaries. More service members desert or join the militia. Class warfare ensues. *** just a scenario depends on the power outages. My credibility is stretched when you are only talking 4 weeks of no power for all this to happen. ***8. Several missile launch complexes are taken. Negotiation with Dee Cee begins. NORAD falls via an insider. Dee Cee capitulates. *** ROFLMAO. Something about to the victor go the spoils ***There is no definitive timeline other than the panic will ensue Sept-Oct timeframe. *** Now to put this in perspective this is a collection of what if scenarios and some what if contingencies. Did this plan make the cut? Where is the rest of the plan if it did? My opinion based on the premise that the poster was a naove intern (highly probable) is that this one was on the cutting room floor he was supposed to be sweeping up. Okay fingers numb will shut up now feel a lot better. -- jqp (jqp@anywhere.com), June 10, 1999.
-------------------------------------- Lewis, Several researchers are studying these posts quite seriously. With the help of the Moderators and the Sysop(s) we are moving S-L-O-W-L-Y. What we do know is the first poster the real c4i on this thread came in on a bonafide dot mil ISP. There are also four KEY threads to this issue... #1 -- Why Paul Milne is a Polly (Category: Government) http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000w5S #2 -- Weak Link (Category: Government) http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000wIA #3 -- WHY I THINK c4i IS A DOOMER TROLL (Category: Uncatagorized) http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000wKw #4 -- c4i, how might you wish us best respond to your disclosures? (Category: Uncatagorized) http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000wOI The fake c4i began posting on the Weak Link thread coming in on a completely diffferent proxy ISP and phred (y2kdudeman@yahoo.com) is somehow linked to the faker. We suspect, someone (in-sincere? et.al.) has a vested interest in attacking Arlin, for some unknown reason. We will take time to figure that out too. Count on it. On the forth thread the real c4i comes back in from the SAME dot mil ISP, one more time. Conclusion? Who knows? Its all just fascinatingly interesting at this point in time. And, Ive observed, that things are *almost* never what they appear to be. Especially with HOT Y2K topics. Diane... ...jus little ole Y2K researcher me trying to figure out why thi
-- Mangolia (magnolia@yahoo.com), September 13, 1999.
somebody at debonkers (the dead one) hinted that they planted the c4i hoax (I would guess they used an IP mask or something) They need to get a life.I say let it go, get your preps done before the masses wake up and stampede.
-- debonker bonker (smack@ll.the pollys), September 13, 1999.
Yes, the "fake" c4i was a hoax... the original came in on a dot mil, and some other things helped indicate the original was quite possibly "real."The four key threads are linked here...
Diane J. Squire - C4I - Jim Lord ???
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 001Gi5
-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), September 13, 1999.
I am not now nor I have I ever been anybody but me. Many who frequent this board know me personally from the WDCY2K meetings and other get togethers. I am real, I use my own name and I don't play games with Y2K.Jim Lord
-- Jim Lord (JimLordY2K@aol.com), September 14, 1999.
Many of us us know that about you Jim. Thanks for posting.Met you briefly up at the Seattle Y2K Expo last February. Great presentation and was highly impressed with your scencerity and "solidness." I would NEVER expect you to play games with Y2K, and wouldn't ever imply otherwise.
Thanks for posting the Y2K Pentagon Papers, Jim.
As for the c4i group (the real ones)... they are a different branch of service from the Navy... and it "shows" on their dot mil.
Diane
-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), September 14, 1999.
Diane:Have you or the other researchers ever uncovered anything on this issue that you can disclose?
I hate the phrase, but "Inquiring minds want to know".
-- Jon Williamson (jwilliamson003@sprintmail.com), September 14, 1999.
Jon,Just some plausible indicators that *some* of the c4i group, are still lurking... based on the kind of place they come from... different *almost* each time... but specifically similar in an overall dot mil ISP pattern... given who they said they are--that they once communicated--to myself, Leska and FM over the course of the c4i saga.
Some of what they originally said, we have already seen indicators of. The rest? I have NO idea. Time will tell.
Diane
See...
Anyone know where the c4i threads are? (The other one)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 001OyCCherri, you are an idiot.
We are not Cory, however we know him.
-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), September 14, 1999.
Earlier...
Diane J. Squire - C4I - Jim Lord ???
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 001Gi5We knew about the report. We didn't leak it. All hell is breaking loose here.
-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), August 19, 1999.
-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), September 14, 1999.