Relate the following quotes to what is about to go down (pun intended) in 3 short months time...y2k...

"The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes."

Benjamin Disraeli, first Prime Minister of England, in a novel he published in 1844 called "Coningsby, the New Generation"

"The governments of the present day have to deal not merely with other governments, with emperors, kings and ministers, but also with the secret societies which have everywhere their unscrupulous agents, and can at the last moment upset all the governments' plans. "

British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli, 1876

"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the Field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."

Woodrow Wilson The New Freedom. (1913)

"In March, 1915, the J.P. Morgan interests, the steel, shipbuilding, and powder interest, and their subsidiary organizations, got together 12 men high up in the newspaper world and employed them to select the most influential newspapers in the United States and sufficient number of them to control generally the policy of the daily press....They found it was only necessary to purchase the control of 25 of the greatest papers.

An agreement was reached; the policy of the papers was bought, to be paid for by the month; an editor was furnished for each paper to properly supervise and edit information regarding the questions of preparedness, militarism, financial policies, and other things of national and international nature considered vital to the interests of the purchasers.

U.S. Congressman Oscar Callaway, 1917

"What is important is to dwell upon the increasing evidence of the existence of a secret conspiracy, throughout the world, for the destruction of organized government and the letting loose of evil."

Christian Science Monitor editorial, June 19th, l920

"The real menace of our republic is this invisible government which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy length over city, state and nation. Like the octopus of real life, it operates under cover of a self created screen....At the head of this octopus are the Rockefeller Standard Oil interests and a small group of powerful banking houses generally referred to as international bankers. The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both political parties."

New York City Mayor John F. Hylan, 1922

"From the days of Sparticus, Wieskhopf, Karl Marx, Trotsky, Rosa Luxemberg, and Emma Goldman, this world conspiracy has been steadily growing. This conspiracy played a definite recognizable role in the tragedy of the French revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century. And now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their head and have become the undisputed masters of that enormous empire."

Winston Churchill, stated to the London Press, in l922.

"We are at present working discreetly with all our might to wrest this mysterious force called sovereignty out of the clutches of the local nation states of the world.

Professor Arnold Toynbee, in a June l931 speech before the Institute for the Study of International Affairs in Copenhagen.

"The government of the Western nations, whether monarchical or republican, had passed into the invisible hands of a plutocracy, international in power and grasp. It was, I venture to suggest, this semioccult power which....pushed the mass of the American people into the Cauldron of World War 1."

British military historian MajorGeneral J.F.C. Fuller, l941

"For a long time I felt that FDR had developed many thoughts and ideas that were his own to benefit this country, the United States. But, he didn't. Most of his thoughts, his political ammunition, as it were, were carefully manufactured for him in advanced by the Council on Foreign Relations One World Money group.. Brilliantly, with great gusto, like a fine piece of artillery, he exploded that prepared "ammunition" in the middle of an unsuspecting target, the American people, and thus paid off and returned his internationalist political support."

"The UN is but a long range, international banking apparatus nearly set up for financial and economic profit by a small group of powerful One World Revolutionaries, hungry for profit and power."

"The depression was the calculated 'shearing' of the public by the World Money powers, triggered by the planned sudden shortage of supply of call money in the New York money market......The OneWorld Government leaders and their ever close bankers have now acquired full control of the money and credit machinery of the U.S. via the creation of the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank."

Curtis Dall, FDR's son in law as quoted in his book, My Exploited Father in Law

"The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson."

A letter written by FDR to Colonel House, November 21st, l933

"The real rulers in Washington are invisible, and exercise power from behind the scenes.

Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter, 1952

"Fifty men have run America, and that's a high figure."

Joseph Kennedy, father of JFK, in the July 26th, l936 issue of The New York Times.

"We shall have world government whether or not you like it by conquest or consent."

Statement by Council on Foreign Relations member James Warburg to The Senate Foreign Relations Committee on February 17th, l950

"Today the path of total dictatorship in the United States can be laid by strictly legal means, unseen and unheard by the Congress, the President, or the people. Outwardly we have a Constitutional government. We have operating within our government and political system, another body representing another form of government a bureaucratic elite.

Senator William Jenner, 1954

"The case for government by elites is irrefutable"

Senator William Fulbright, Former chairman of the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee, stated at a 1963 symposium entitled: The Elite and the Electorate Is Government by the People Possible?

"The Trilateral Commission is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States. The Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power political, monetary, intellectual and ecclesiastical. What the Trilateral Commission intends is to create a worldwide economic power superior to the political governments of the nationstates involved. As managers and creators of the system they will rule the future."

U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater in his l964 book: "With No Apologies."

The powers of financial capitalism had another farreaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements, arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was the Bank for International Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the worlds' central banks which were themselves private corporations. The growth of financial capitalism made possible a centralization of world economic control and use of this power for the direct benefit of financiers and the indirect injury of all other economic groups."

Tragedy and Hope: A History of The World in Our Time (Macmillan Company, 1966,) Professor Carroll Quigley, Georgetown University.

"The Council on Foreign Relations is "the establishment." Not only does it have influence and power in key decisionmaking positions at the highest levels of government to apply pressure from above, but it also announces and uses individuals and groups to bring pressure from below, to justify the high level decisions for converting the U.S. from a sovereign Constitutional Republic into a servile member state of a one world dictatorship."

Former Congressman John Rarick 1971

"The directors of the CFR make up a sort of Presidium for that part of the Establishment that guides our destiny as a nation."

The Christian Science Monitor September 1, l961

"The New World Order will have to be built from the bottom up rather than from the top down...but in the end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece will accomplish much more than the old fashioned frontal assault."

CFR member Richard Gardner, writing in the April l974 issue of the CFR's journal, Foreign Affairs

"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control...Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent."

Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976

"The planning of UN can be traced to the 'secret steering committee' established by Secretary [of State Cordell] Hull in January 1943. All of the members of this secret committee, with the exception of Hull a Tennessee politician were members of the Council on Foreign Relations. They saw Hull regularly to plan, select, and guide the labors of the [States] Department's Advisory Committee. It was, in effect, the coordinating agency for all the State Department postwar planning."

Professors Laurence H. Shoup and William Minter, writing in their study of the CFR, "Imperial Brain Trust: The CFR and United States Foreign Policy." (Monthly Review Press, 1977).

"We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had not subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries.

David Rockefeller, founder of the Trilateral Commission, in an address to a meeting of The Trilateral Commission, in June, 1991.

"The most powerful clique in these (CFR) groups have one objective in common they want to bring about the surrender of the sovereignty and the national independence of the U.S. They want to end national boundaries and racial and ethnic loyalties supposedly to increase business and ensure world peace. What they strive for would inevitably lead to dictatorship and loss of freedoms. by the people. The CFR was founded for "the purpose of promoting disarmament and submergence of U.S. sovereignty and national independence into an all powerful one world government.""

Harpers magazine, July l958

"In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all."

Strobe Talbot, Clinton's Deputy Secretary of State, as quoted in Time, July 20th, l992.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 12, 1999

Answers

Andy,

Although all these quotes SEEM to point to something similar, I think they are each pointing to very different things. Putting them all in a single basket makes them all appear to be eggs, but some are squash, some are golf balls, and some are old piano keys. Surely there are conspiracies of money and power, ever-changing coalitions, but I think you are implying that these groups have a single goal-- world government. I don't see any foundation to your assumption or the conclusion you are trying to point to except for a bunch of quotes taken out of context.

As for the idea of a single world government, I think it's something I would like to discuss. First of all because it brings into question the very function of government. We like to think it's the job of government to offer a like-minded people a certain amount of (armed) security and services, but what appears to be the case is that the people are here to serve the state, something that none of us thinks is to the good.

If government were to evolve into a skeletal function to provide assurances against the physical harm and the seizing of our personal freedom and property by lunatics of some perverse type, why couldn't that role by taken on a broader basis and those provisions be made to all global inhabitants? I know most of you think this would be a terrible thing, but why? Why must we separate and distinguish ourselves from others? Why can't we come together commonly in an agreed upon and sensible fashion that allows for differences among equal members?

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), September 12, 1999.

OK Mara I've plucked them all out of thin air to further MY agenda :)

If I had to pick ONE - it would be this one, read it again...

""We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had not subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries."

David Rockefeller, founder of the Trilateral Commission, in an address to a meeting of The Trilateral Commission, in June, 1991.

Now you've asked a bunch of questions - if you want to sincerely know what the hell has been and is going on out there with regard to the NWO aka the Tri Lateral Commission/ The Committee of 300/ The Bilderberg Group/ The Council on Foreign Relations/ The IMF/ NATO/ The United Nations etc. etc.

Read any of the last three or four (preferably all) of the David Icke books.

Without the background Mara the subject matter is too overwhelming and detailes to go into. Money very well spent, after all, you only have 3 more months to spend any greenbacks :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 12, 1999.

If I had know that I had to clean up the bathrooms at Denny's, I would of never left my job at Burger King. I always thought of myself as being the best darn fry boy around. Now all I hear is "Jethro do this and Jethro do that, Jethro go clean the bathrooms".

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), September 13, 1999.

Y2K Pro--I hate cleaning the bathroom too, especially when men can't seem to hit the target.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), September 13, 1999.

Andy, David Icke is a psycho.

Pro, Cleanin potties ain't that bad...would you rather be a congressman?

Mara, Those who shun the idea of world government do so because they have read the Bible and they know how the story ends!

Now, I just got done watching 60 minuites with the ruskie defector. Big whoopdy doo. You think we haven't done the same to them? Hell, the CIA does worse to our own people!

-- Don Wegner (donfmwyo@earthlink.net), September 13, 1999.

Bardou,

I'm sure you will be fascinated by this little tid-bit :)

To combat the problem of directionally-challenged men at urinals, some bright spark "hit" on the idea of pinting a fake fly near the waste hole on each urinal at a convention centre...

Et voila!

Splatter damage went down by orders of magnitude - the idea is now "head"ing off around the world...

It would work immeasurably better for me if I saw painted on the urinals ddecker, y2k pro, chicken little etc...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 13, 1999.

Don,

David Icke is not a psycho. I challenge you to read his material.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 13, 1999.

I have sir...all that vibrating bothers me!

-- Don Wegner (donfmwyo@earthlink.net), September 13, 1999.

Hey Don,

you must be from the dark side then :)

BTW the different vibrational levels/frequencies he talks about have been proven in quantum and hyperdimensional physics.

string theory, which is all the rage now in physics, talks of 12-13 dimensions, strange how it is all coming together now :)

"a" will back me up on that one...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 13, 1999.

Andy,

I know all that dude. Look at the frequency spectrum of light alone. We (humans, specifically our brains) work on a pretty narrow freq range. I believe that some folks out there are able to do things the rest of us common folks can't...paranormal type stuff. But changing into lizzards is a bit beyond the realm of reality. BTW, the whole reason for the flood, according to Enoch, was the destruction of the Watcher's hybrid offspring. If Icke's story is correct, then the book of Enoch is a hoax. I'll go along with Enoch myself.

Dark Side Don...hehehehe ;)

-- Don Wegner (donfmwyo@earthlink.net), September 13, 1999.

Good quotes Andy, the existence of this plot can't be denied, hell they openly admit what they are up to. But I got to go with Don on the lizard thing. Ickes only lives about 40 miles from me, been meaning to drop by and see if he's wacko or if Bush really is a gecko....

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), September 13, 1999.

since we've put a sticker of Jane Fonda in our Vet. center urinal NOBODY has missed the mark! Andy, keep plugging away,who has voted for any of the bg'crats in the united nations anyway? my vote didn't come cheap and we WON"T let them get away with this perversion of the ultimate sacriface of millions of those who shead their blood to preserve our great experiment. take all your money out and make the bastards dance and wail.

-- fats Kissinger (draconionsolutoins@uselesseaters.com), September 13, 1999.

Hey Don, Nikoli,

The shape-shifting reptilian thing is a stretch, even for me :) No, what I was getting at is he has a very firm grasp of the NWO - the pyramid structure of it all etc.

Nikoli - did I misunderstand you? I thought Icke lived in England... the gecko one was good!

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 13, 1999.

My first introduction to the concept of an elite group moving behind the scenes of power was reading the novel "Captains and Kings" by Taylor Caldwell when I was still a teenager. She had a very good grasp on the situation, and used many of her books to try to enlighten and warn people. Twenty years ago I listened to a man from the Pentagon talk about the Illuminati and the Trilateral Commission. It all seems too fantastic, but anyone willing to research will easily find a sickening amount of evidence available.

This does, of course, fit the ancient Bible prophecies of man's attempt to establish one world government.

Mara, you ask why not? Sit quietly and think about every civilization you have known of. Think of their history, their rise and fall. Think of our history. Think of current events, and then tell me what is so different now with human beings than has ever been in all the past? Dictatorship is BAD. Rule by a small and elite group of 'dictators' is also BAD. Do you really know of any group of people that you trust to dictate where and when you work, how much you get paid, where you live, whether or not you qualify for medical care, whether or not and when or how many children you may have, permission to marry, permission to move etc. Do you think a dictatorship would tolerate freedom of thought and speech? There will never be such a thing as a minimal group of altruistic humble and wonderful people who will be content to just make sure you are fed and protected. As human beings, we are selfish and self-serving as a whole. There have been attempts to achieve utopia, which have always failed, and are destined to always fail. Utopia is impossible. Some people have the deluded belief that if they could only get rid of the 'bad' people, that utopia is possible. The truth is, you would have to get rid of every person, because no one has ever been that 'good'. And even if you found a really nice bunch of people, what if some 'bad' people removed them and took over the nice little one world power set up? What if they get sick or die, and their replacement is just a teeny bit egomaniacal or twisted?

I don't see people as evolving. New Age is not new. It is simply old things revived. If anything, we (mankind) are as bad or worse as we have ever been.

I think it is important not to overlook or underestimate the religious occultic factor that binds the people who are dedicated to establishing one world government. You must understand Luciferian beliefs to get the Big Picture. These people are dedicated to establishing this one world government, not for the good of mankind, but as part of their commitment to the darkness they serve. They do not care if you are healthy, well, fed or protected in the process. You mean absolutely nothing to them, other than in the context of someone who can be used to assist in their goals, or someone to be removed or neutralized because they are an obstacle, or just a nobody that lives or dies, que sera sera. Yes, sounds fantastic, but check it out.

They will not stop.

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 13, 1999.

Hey Mara,

Here's another quote which very much dovetails with the one I picked out earlier...

In 1953 John Swinton, chief of staff @ N.Y. Times gave this speech to the NY press club.-----------------------

There is no such thing, at this date of the worlds history as an independant press, you know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out in the streets looking for another job.

If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before 24 hours my occupation would be gone. The business of journalists is to destroy the truth; to lie outright; to pervert; to vilify; to fawn at the feet of Mammon and to sell the country for his daily bread. You know it and I know it and what folly is this toasting an independant press. We are the tools and vassels of the rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men.

We are intellectual prostitutes. ------end

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 13, 1999.

I may be incorrect on this Andy, but I was listening to Rense and Ickes a while back and believe that he stated he is currently living in Lufkin Tx. At least I think it was Ickes, that's the problem with memory, it often fails when you need it. Maybe a tripple 9 problem just cropping up...

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), September 13, 1999.

And Mumsie,

Nail, head, you've just hit it, with a tremendous thwack!!!

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 13, 1999.

Andy, I usually appreciate what you post,...however....I want to put in my two cents that this seems like grasping at straws....I think it will take far longer than you are predicting,...IF AT ALL...for the kind of oligarchy you are predicting. There have been these types of predictions for year...AND...while I don't preclude the possible just cos the men have been flexing political muscle FOREVER....I think you are worrying about the wrong crisis...

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), September 13, 1999.

Andy

one little correction

If the UN started fixing their code this year it is not likely they will be compliant.

For the record I don't worry about "world order"

 Y2K Preparedness of the United Nations

-- Brian (imager@home.com), September 13, 1999.

Okay, don't 'worry' about one world government, but for the love of Freedom, start to commit to researching the people who are working for it. There may be ways to slow it down or impede it now, that will not be possible later. It is like a train that gains momentum...after a certain point you can only be decimated if you stand in the way of it.

Study it enough to satisfy yourself as to whether or not it is real and a threat. Then decide where you stand. Otherwise it is like those who don't examine the Y2K threat, and say they won't worry about it simply because they don't want to believe it. Please do your own research before setting this on a shelf.

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 13, 1999.

Andy, you madman, who are you? :0)

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 13, 1999.

The only reason relative freedom has ever ocurred is because of cracks in the system or escape hatches. Your rulers never grant freedom. It may only be gained -- seized by force, or gained by agility or escape.

The NWO hirelings are busily patching the cracks. And there aren't any more escape hatches (no "New World"). And we don't have any "boats" by which to get to Mars or the Moon.

The Orient has been a cesspool of despotism for centuries. Hasn't improved much, except to some extent in a few places due to (waning) U.S. influence when it was somewhat more free.

The middle east -- you got all those Muslim wogs and their crazy religion. Christianity and Judaism ain't much better. Look at the governments and the sheep in those areas. They got TVs now, but otherwise it's the same as it was 1500, 2500 years ago.

Europe: If it wasn't for the Americas as the escape valve, the British Queen Mother would still be filling up the Tower of London, there would be either a Napoleon V or Louis XX as ruler of France, Bismarck IV as ruler of Greater Prussia (Germany, Poland...) and so on.

The NWO will solidify their rule in just a few years, if Y2K doesn't cause a stupendous crash. Any of you think you're still in Kansas, wake up and get your news somewhere else than Dan Blather and the newspapers (the critical ones mentioned above) and the NEWS WIRE services owned by the same people that own the important newspapers.

That's why I'm hoping for a Y2K 9 or 10. A lot of us probably won't make it, including me. But it's the only way we (or survivors) will have any breathing room at all.

In that regard -- could bank runs help it along? As many people as possible withdrawing as much cash as possible would certainly throw a monkey wrench in the NWO machinery.

-- A (A@AisA.com), September 13, 1999.

Mumsie,

Zoobie thinks I'm an MI6 agent provocateur... close...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 13, 1999.

Donna - I wouldn't be too sure, 2000 is sink or swim time for them.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 13, 1999.

What if.....seizing on the possibilities and opportunites of y2k to advance the cause of one world government - those who have been designing a "new future" for us - have already put the new systems at the ready. Allowing the old systems to collapse on themselves and then waiting for the inevitable outcry from the ignorant sheeple to DO SOMETHING - ANYTHING -JUST FIX IT! Wha - la! The new system - all shiny and global.

-- April (Alwzapril@home.com), September 13, 1999.

I agree with Andy.

For a non-Icke view of this stuff, try "The Occult Conspiracy" by Michael Howard, MJF Books, 1989. It goes back in various forms to the the ancient mysteries, the Knights Templars, etc. And, Occult as in "secret, esoteric" (Oxford), not neccessarily having to do with devils and demons and reptiles from outer space.

One thing that seems to be overlooked often in discussion of "One World Government" is the fact that we tend to to view "government" from a statist point of view. I'd like to throw out the notion that, even though the UN may be weak, and nation-states may not be on the same page, we already live in a "One World State." It is the "Corporate State." That is fairly consistent across borders, and it is the control of the money supply that these "One Worlders" are interested in. Nation-states have come to mainly be the means by which the "Corporate State" interact with the people of the nation-state. How many nation- states are there in the world that don't kiss the ass of the "Corporate State"? A Dozen?

Much of what the nation-state does, I believe, is simply meant to fool the citizens into thinking that they have sovereignty (think Demo- publicans), to propagandize people in their own cultural terms, and to cause stresses in the system that become money-making opportunities.

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), September 13, 1999.

More personal to Andy:

If there is a conspiracy, so what in the long run? It will fail, as all such things do, because the protagonists all are human beings. No one can outrun their humanity. Many have tried to rule the world, and have conspired endlessly. Some, like Hitler, came too close but were defeated by their own blunders as well as the Allies. Alexander seemed to succeed, but his drunkeness or a rival killed him at 33. The ancient Chinese and the Romans had longer lasting empires. But where are they now? They are all gone, of course.

The sweep of history is too grand and overarching to be corraled by mere flyspeck humans. There is no way any conspiracy can whip entropy, error, time and change. Assuming you can surmount Fate is the arrogance of children. Control is an illusion.

Being philosophical doesn't mean complacent. There have always been evil people who conspire, and always fights against them. This will probably go on forever.

The Tao the Ching says, "If you could rule the world, could you improve it?" We all think so, but time and nature disprove even our most cherished notions. It's part of being human.

Of course there are those who think the Conspiricy was started by Aliens...............

So keep your eyes open but your blood pressure down....

-- Forrest Covington (theforrest@mindspring.com), September 13, 1999.

Denialist gems:

It's totally untrue

They really didn't say that, did they?

Can't happen

The best laid plans...

If they were going to overthrow the U.S., they would'v done it by now.

Don't believe anything you read and only half of what you see.

They were misquoted, all of them.

Oh, please. Give me a break.

Why ruin a perfectly good consumer driven country?

I don't think thats what they really meant.

It's just conspiracy crap, quote or no quote.

Oh, my, I'll have to think about that ....tomorrow.

Yeah, right. Sure, man.

New World what?

Do you know who'd they'd have to have in their pockets to pull this off?

-- OR (orwelliator@biosys.net), September 13, 1999.

Andy, I'm not accusing you of inventing these quotes. I'm just saying they don't ALL relate to the SAME conspiracy. Every generation has its own group of wealthy, powerful conspirators. Yes, I've read about the Tri-Lateral Commission and I don't believe it or all that NWO stuff.

Mumsie, A central world government doesn't have to be a dictatoship. It could be democratic. I'm not advocating it. Frankly, I don't care. While I think that our own government works fairkly well and better than most, I hardly think it's ideal, for many of the reasons we often mention here.

P.S., I read the whole thing about the reptiles... I'm sorry to say I've been infected by a meme that tells me humans are all human and evolutionary outgrowths of this planet. Bit, you know, maybe I"m wrong. It's just a mental prejudice. I have no real knowledge of the matter.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), September 13, 1999.

Mara,

If you look into the question of precisely who these people behind the scenes (and sometimes on center stage) are, you will find not so much individuals but families, clans, dynasties. They are able to achieve what they have because, as others here have noted, they think multigenerationally.

Then there are the multigenerational plans of various secret societies, which are ultimately a tool for the elites. These are key, but it should be stressed that most members of such societies have only the best intentions and know nothing of such plans, and those that do are often well intentioned; few but the elites themselves are given every "piece of the puzzle." The very structure of the secret society invites espionage, political and economic conspiracy.

As for certain ranking individuals appearing to be reptiles on various occasions, this is most likely a post-hypnotic suggestion, serving as a "screen memory" for other activity. Like similar UFO memories, this is absurd, and discourages further inquiry.

Gary Seven

-- Gary Seven (G7@indiana.sun), September 13, 1999.

"National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all"

Well, after reading "The Soveriegn Individual" by James Dale Davidson & Lord Reese Mogg, I have concluded that it was an improvement over the feudal system, but unsustainable for the future. Loss of sovereignty doesn't necessarily equate with a global dictatorship -- it will likely produce a global opportunity for libertarians as well.

Andy: Are you familiar with Laissez Faire City www.lfcity.com ? You might also be interested in their weekly newspaper at www.zolatimes.com I've visited their interim community (twice) and would be interested in your thoughts.

-- DaveW (dwood@southwind.net), September 13, 1999.

Mara: A "democracy" IS a dictatorship -- dictatorship by the majority (or a coalition of special interest groups). The democrats (not all in the Democratic Party) have got you conned. The founders of the U.S. tried, unsuccessfully, to establish a republic -- not a democracy. Despite all the blathering about democracy -- even now, none of the "icons" of the U.S. mention democracy. The "Pledge of Allegiance" (for what it's worth) mentions "...the REPUBLIC for which it stands", etc.

pshannon -- good point re corporate states. Many in the constitutional "sovereignty" movement believe that the corporate world has succeeded in trapping us all into the "nexus" of mercantile law rather than constitutional law.

-- A (A@AisA.com), September 13, 1999.

Mara,

Outside the advantages that would accrue to a tiny, undeserving, elite power structure, I can't think of a single advantage to a world government, and I can offer at least a few arguments against one:

1) A world government would be a monopoly, and an unnatural, artificially imposed monopoly at that. It would herald the end of evolution and competition in improved forms of self-governance for at least some time to come.

2) A world government would serve as a unified political control structure that implements the means for a global Totalitarian state. It may not start out as such, but the temptation to make it such would be too great. There are those who see power used justly and discreetly as power wasted. These entities will take steps to assume that "wasted" power. A single control point just makes their goals easier to attain, sustain, and expand.

3) Just like our forced monopoly global fiat monetary system, a forced world government will ultimately prove less than durable and will eventually lead to an extended period of disruption on a global scale. Any monoculture eventually dies from within due to inbreeding and lack of competitive stimulus. The larger the area the monoculture inhabits, the greater the disruption. The longer the monoculture thrives, the longer the adjustment period following its collapse.

4) Even if less than Totalitarian, a world government would not be responsive to its constituents. The more distant the power base, the less useful to those governed. The more distant power, the more likely that power base will set about maintaining its hold on power at all costs and the less likely it will respond to the needs and rights of those governed.

5) Although a potential "step up" for parts of the developing world, a world government would be a step down for most of the developed nations. Any proposed human rights document would likely be a watered-down version of the Western constitutions and especially of America's constitution. I would propose, instead of back-sliding to a mean, all the other countries of the world be encouraged to rise to America's superior, though imperfect constitutional standard (which is not in any way to imply that our current globalist-leaning government actually obeys the constitution to which they have supposedly taken an oath to uphold and obey in both its letter and spirit).

-- Nathan (nospam@all.com), September 13, 1999.