OT?: Nightmarish bioweapons

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If we were ever to come under attack by bioterrorism, sheesh. I was just in the shower today, and the thought crossed my mind that bioengineered weapons would be far easier to manufacture and far DEADLIER than nuclear weapons...

Here are some of the obvious:

1) Smallpox. No one's immune to it anymore, but frozen stocks still exist and can be recultured if the devil got ahold of them for less-than-benevolent reasons.

2) Bubonic plague. This can be engineered to favor the pneumonic route of infection, making inoculation to death occur within 2 days. Fleas can be engineered to harbor the Yersinia more efficiently, as well as made more resistant to pesticide eradications efforts.

3) Anthrax. Drop the sprores over a city by airplane, and soon a quarter of the population will be dead with half wishing they were dead. Other obvious baddies are Ebola, Dengue, mosquito-borne encephalitis, mosquioto-borne alphavirus variants.

Now more less obvious plagues:

4) Flu virus. Yeah, they make you sick once a year and put you out of work for a day or two...But these bugs have been deadly before (1918-1919) can be deadlier once again. Engineered to overexpress super-ricins or snake venoms on cell entry, flu can easily be souped up to be potent killers. Only miniscule (nearly homeopathic) amounts of these toxins are needed to be lethal. Additionally, flu could be engineered to be more virulent by resurrecting old strains not in circulation or by coaxing swine-avian cross infectivity while selecting out the variants that are most pathogenic. Here you could get something that was 100% lethal, something that would be so bad that it would wipe out a whole city before it had the chance to spread elsewhere.

5) Bacteria found in natural human flora could be engineered to express the biosynthetic pathway of various psychotropic drugs found in nature, like varieties of lysergic acid or mescaline. This could make a hapless public a little on the edgy side, don't you think?

6) Cockroaches can be used as "bugs" in both senses of the word: they can hooked up with microelectodes wired to their nervous systems, and then moved around by remote control. They can be equipped with fiber-optic cameras, microphones, and tiny transmitters so as to concoct the perfect, teleoperated spying (or bioweapon inocuation) device.

7) Engineered retroviruses. Can be used to wipe out specific genetic populations of people. They can quietly infect everyone and go into latency in most people, but the toxic, pathogenic genes would only activate in people with a genetic makeup that a very evil person or government does not like. Problem here is that retroviruses are very labile and not easily transmitted. Solution? Combine the intractibility of an integrated pro-retrovirus infection with the high virulence of a flu, cold, or herpes virus's coat proteins! I don't know offhand how difficult this would be but the general idea is certainly plausible.

8) Plant pathogens. You want to starve everybody? Make a plant virus or bacterium that is used to specifically infect the crop varieties that produce seeds.

9) Mitochondria-tropic bacteria or viruses. Mitochondria are the "canary in the mineshaft" of our cells. Not only are they required to provide us with energy, but they are delicate sensors that a cell employs to decide whether or not to commit suicide. If conditions are not right, in each cell in the body there is a biochemical "suicide" program that gets turned on by signals that are triggered by the mitochondia. If a pathogen can be engineered to enter the cell to turn on the suicide trigger in mitochondria (as well as secrete other molecules (such as FasL or TNF) from the dying cell), you'd have the equivalent of a Chernobyl spreading through your body if you got infected...

The list goes on and on, but you get the point. The technology is far more accessible than needed to make a nuke. These bugs are far more easy to conceal than nukes. Thus, these will be the "poor man's" Bomb of the next century, and everyday terrorists--jelous or hateful of the US--could sneak them in at any opportunity. There's really nothing we can do about it short of turning ourselves into a totalitarian police state, where every single movement and word of every single person within the borders is viewed by camera and analyzed by super computers.

Scary, huh?

-- coprolith (coprolith@rocketship.com), September 11, 1999

Answers

I consider biological weapons development one of the greatest risks to our species.

Regards,

-- Mr. Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), September 11, 1999.


y2k will wipe out there technology.

-- More worried (about@y.2k), September 11, 1999.

One of the most chilling CNN articles of the year was about the ease with which some 'weed' species can incorporate qualities from nearby experimental crops. It referred to a crop that had been bio-engineered to have resistance to commnonly used herbicides. The upside is that farms could produce a food crop that has the ability to withstand the chemicals used to control competing plants.

Some of the surrounding weeds { which are usually agressive exotic species, plants from an outside environment that are very successful at exploiting a niche } apparently benefitted from this experiment.

{I'll hunt around a bit for a link, my bookmark file is pure disaster at this point!}

A separate experiment that I personally know of has been one done on strawberry plants, to give them less suseptibility to frost.

The potentials are awe inspiring and frightening at the same time.

-- flora (***@__._), September 11, 1999.


Y2K may wipe out the freezing/refrigeration units which store and lock down these monstrosities.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), September 11, 1999.

Ah, A & L,

You have to look through the eyes of the Frankenstein who views this as the brainchild, perhaps the key to the 'better' or 'right' way of life. Don't you think they consider contingency plans for a variety of scenarios?

-- flora (***@__._), September 11, 1999.



Sure, it's "good enough for Frankenstein's Lab" if it turns the UN Preserves Target Areas back into jungles ;~}

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), September 11, 1999.

I don't expect a lot of agreement on this but I subscribe to the "walk softely and carry a big stick" theory. The big stick is the dozens of Nuc. wepons at sea on any and every day.

Our government needs to make it clear to any nation (all individuals belong to a nation somewhere) that retalliation will be swift & massive. I suspect this would reduce to nill the chance of this happening. Fear of mutual destruction is the most powerfud deterant.

-- (simon5@mail.com), September 11, 1999.


Short of moving into a hermetically sealed cave with a nuclear/electric generator and sealed lighting for growing plants for food and oxygen, there isn't a blame thing you could do about biowarfare. For sure, living in the country is NOT protection from disease, neither are any sort of food storage preps.

You could pray. Or work towards forming a single world government. Which latter doesn't seem to be a very popular option.

It only takes one to start a war - even IF the US and all other major countries gave up all research that could be applied to biowar, what about North Korea? Or South Africa? Or nutcases who want to take a MASSIVE bodyguard to hell with them? Genetic experiments don't require a huge amount of expenditure or unusual equipment - modifying coliform bacteria to produce botulism toxins would not be out of reach of any fanatic with the proper training.

If you can't do anything about the problem, what is the point of worrying about it?

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), September 11, 1999.


A one world government would never solve this problem, because it would be made up of corruptible and fallible human beings who would be vulnerable and prone to divisions and factions and insurrections, plus the usual cheating, lying, stealing, and murdering. Let the thought of utopia die as long as you place human beings as the cornerstone of that fantasy building.

Excellent post coprolith. Are you in a related field, or have you just done your homework well? Listening to my cousin, infectious disease doc, after he attended a conference, was enough to curl anybody's toes. The government is currently attending these type of conferences and telling the medical establishment represented that it is not IF but WHEN.

It is not quite true that there is nothing we can do. We can do our homework on these diseases, and prepare with antibiotics personally, and the knowledge of how to use them. Basic medical knowledge may tip the balance in saving a life.

We can and must pray. Man is bent on destruction. We have met the enemy and 'he is us' has never been more applicable. We need Someone greater than we are to intervene in our mess.

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 11, 1999.


Mumsie -- you talking about me?

Seriously -- Jehova/Yahweh, "god" of the Jews, adopted by and sanitized by Christians, was a real a*hole. Not a good role model -- Jealous, vindictive, arbitrary, inconsistent, domineering, a troublemaker (pitting various groups and people against each other), etc. (Remember the nuking of Sodom and Gomorrah -- what about the children -- sob, sniff, honk, snuffle?)

Not someone I'd put any "faith" in.

BTW -- Jehova was just one of many "gods" -- the comilers and translators of the bible itself missed editing out many instances of the plural in their efforts to establish monotheism.

Those who know only the bible are to historical study, as moonshine drinkers are to those who know and appreciate fine bourbons, scotches, wines, etc.

-- A (A@AisA.com), September 11, 1999.



Maybe I'm a chronic worry wart. Sorry to rain on your all's parade. Perhaps such thoughts are unhealthy as per PDs comments. Nevertheless, I truly believe that we will all be faced with public health emergencies of the bioweapon sort, and that our response to them will dictate the future of the freedoms we enjoy in our republic. Regardless of y2k.

Me, I have no means to "bug out" to a more rural locale, but it seems one would have a better change of surviving a bioweapon attack if one could. That's what wealthy medieval people did (who were able to) during plagues--they bugged out to their country villas. These were more likely to survive.

To all anti-genetic engineering luddites out there: the cat's out of the bag. There's no turing back. This technology can either be used for great good or great harm, or more likely for neutral, information- gathering purposes. I strongly suggest you read about recombinant DNA technology's possibilities and get a basic understanding of the underlying biology. The best we can do is encourage its use in enlightened, non-hostile ways. It's going to revolutionize how we treat cancer, heart attack, diabetes, and stroke in the coming decades, allowing us to live healthier and longer, adding both quality and quantity to our years. It could also be used to make awful weapons. God help us if some maniac takes that opportunity.

World government? I favor the idea in principle but practically this is impossible now. It would have to evolve slowly and naturally for me to approve, and be implemented in a way that jives with basic human rights like freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom to bear arms for self-defence, freedom to a fair trial, freedom from cruel and unusual punishments and torture, the rule by the consent of the ruled, the right to own private property, etc. At this point in time, I don't think that a majority of people on earth share these same values. So world government is not (yet) for me, an unwelcome trade of security from bio-terrorists for basic freedoms.

-- coprolith (coprolith@rocketship.com), September 11, 1999.


Simon 5: The problem with retaliation is identifying which country or countries are at fault. Terrorists don't wear signs telling you where they are from even if you can catch them. Mr. Decker: Wouldn't you say the same problem exists for the chemical end as well?

-- Neil G.Lewis (pnglewis1@yahoo.com), September 11, 1999.

I believe the biggest bio problem today is in the water. Don't drink the water!!

-- Susan (number9@mindspring.com), September 11, 1999.

A.... sometimes you wear me out just like a fractious child does. You seem to know bits and pieces about God, but you leave glaring holes in your assessment of Him. Those who ignore the relevant accuracy of the Bible pertaining to history, archeology, science and prophecy are to spiritual understanding as muddy crawdad slurpers to prime lobster eaters, are as romance novel readers to those who appreciate classic literature, and are as grocery store tasteless cookie gobblers to those who relish each morsel of my homemade delectable baked goods.

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 11, 1999.

PS, if you ask me very nicely, I might send you some cookies.

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 11, 1999.


flora... what you are searching for is the Terminator Gene... developed as a joint project by Monsanto (technically, by Delta Pine and Land which was then absorbed by Monsanto) and our own dear Dept. of Agriculture. Or maybe you mean some of Monsanto's other creations.. Roundup Ready genes, or "traitor genes". Another fascinating subject to explore. Big Business and Big Gov't... Frankenstein and Bride of Frankenstein.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), September 11, 1999.

When I'm forced to hear about such unpleasant topics, I just go shopping until I feel better. Here's where I've been shopping lately:

http://gasmask.com/

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 11, 1999.


God, grant me the serinity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to KNOW the difference.......

-- Zeda (rickster@n-jcenter.com), September 11, 1999.

""When I'm forced to hear about such unpleasant topics, I just go shopping until I feel better. Here's where I've been shopping lately: http://gasmask.com/

Liberty"

REALLY LAUGHED OUT LOUD! (And needed it, thanks!)

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 11, 1999.


C'lith,

Damn...next time I'm having trouble with guests that have overstayed their welcome, I'll be sure to call you up and ask you to come clear the house for me...

But seriously, I know what you're saying, and welcome to the horrors of modern life, but what you're talking about is probably only the tip of the iceberg. Just try to only think about it early in the morning, when you have plenty of time to unwind, before trying to get some sleep...

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), September 11, 1999.


Given that the technology to produce biological weapons has been around for a while, it seems surprising no one would have taken advantage of that route of attack by now. What I consider scary is that with nukes you don't stand a chance. Either the blast or the radiation will get you good.

-- Gia (laureltree7@hotmail.com), September 11, 1999.

Gia, just found this earlier today on the Walton site...

http://www.netoriginals.com/uss/

This was also interesting...

http://www.webpal.org/survival/books/Doomsday/default.htm

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 11, 1999.


Coprolith,

Sad to say you may have hit that nail squarely on the head. Biowarefare is I believe the most likely WMD senario we may be facing in the future. Besides being fairly simple technology, cheap and being capable of deployment without leaving an incriminating trail back to the instigator (important since most nations consider bioweapons in the same league with nuclear devices) it is perhaps the most deadly. The lethal effects of five suitcase nukes pales in comparison with what could be done with 5 pounds of a "weaponized" hybrid anthrax/ smallpox agent. Considering that you could put 50,000 smallpox virus particles on the head of a pin and that it may only take one breathed into your lungs to infect you this stuff scares me a lot more than a small nuke.

Richard Preston's book "The Hot Zone" about the discovery of the Reston Ebola strain (and ebola in general) is tremendously chilling but worthy of a read. Lots of good technical information in it for those who contemplate trying to survive a bio-attack (and being a parent I plan to try as impossible as that might seem). Even more chilling as regards intentional use of bioagents are two of his papers published as "The Bioweaponeers" and "The Demon in the Freezer". The URL leading to "The Bioweaponeers" paper is below and there is a link on that page to the other paper.

http://cryptome.org/bioweap.htm Richard Preston's "Bioweaponeers Paper"

BTW....You mentioned that "frozen stocks still exist and can be recultured" refering to smallpox...The papers I referenced indicate that the Russians produced over 20 TONS of smallpox virus in their bio-reactors. And likely still have it. The Chinese are heavily into bioagents and they scare me more than the Russians. If they decide to invade Taiwan and we don't oppose them you'll know why...

DCK

P.S.- Looking for a good deal on MCU-2/P or M40 masks, NBC filters and a MOPP suit or three...

-- Don Kulha (dkulha@vom.com), September 12, 1999.


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