I recently found this forum and have spent many hours reading alot of the material (questions and replies) concerning Y2K and it's yet to be played out unknown scenario. I am a tad shy of being a "doomser" and no where close to being a "poly". My question is this, Why?... No one can properly prepare for any scenario above a "5" and anything less than a "5" requires no "extra" preparation at all. This is not a "personal" event! We are in it together, like it or not. The doomsers and the poly's will need each other no matter what happens! May God have mercy on us all.

-- Vern (bacon17@ibm.net), September 06, 1999

Answers

Vern: You've apparently been hanging around with Ernest too long. Of course we should prepare. A 10 may be too much to handle but a 5 to 8 or so can be adequately prepared for. If you want to continue living, you should prepare; it's as simple as that. Your response is too fatalistic.

-- cody (cody@y2ksurvive.com), September 06, 1999.

Vern, the computers are going to do their thing, coldly robotically going where no programming has gone before. The big variable is the humanimal reaction. If ppl behave with valor and altruism survival is possible. If they seize the opportunity to loot, pillage, rape, murder, burn, nuke, attack, and go ballistic on all levels, it's gonna go Infomagic. Humanimals DO have the power to transcend primitive reactions. They DO have a choice to connect to their Soul, their higher Self, and conduct themselves in line with the Angels. And God certainly has the power to infuse His creatures with the longing and drive to follow Him.

But God gave his creatures free will, and therein lies the uncertain terror accompanying Y2K. What will humanimals choose?

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), September 06, 1999.

Please don't mix God, free will, humans and animals. If you buy into God and the concept of free will you must also buy into the fact that God gave us a higher evolutionary slot than our "animal" brethren. You mock God's hierarchy when you so lightly coin a phrase such as "humanimal

-- nowhere (nowheresville@nowhere.com), September 06, 1999.

I disagree, Vern.

According to the WDCY2K impact scale (>http://www.wdcy2k.org/su rvey/survey99/) even a level three or four could have some significant disruptions, i.e. regional power outages for several days or more. Some preparation would still be prudent even in a "3".

On the other hand, it absolutely IS possible to prepare for a 5+, as many on this forum and the related prep forum will attest. For example, right now, you can still purchase a one-year supply of freeze dried food for under $3,000 (much less for some "systems") , and delivery times are down to one week at some companies. Numerous other prep items are also still available, although shortages are starting to occur.

Many, if not most people could afford to build a substantial stockpile of food and supplies by simply using a credit card. If nothing happened, they could then eat the food they purchased and pay off the credit card next year with the money that they would otherwise be spending on groceries.

The hard part is trying to determine what level of severity you will experience. This is a very personal decision, since significant compromises may have to be made if one chooses to prepare. Furthermore, everyone's situation is different- one region of the country may experience a 4, while another gets hit with a 7 for example. Another example would be that someone who has plenty of land and knows how to garden and farm would pursue a different strategy for providing for their food needs than say, a city slicker like myself who bugged out to the mountains (I bought a bunch of freeze-dried and canned food). I think it is primarily because of the mental effort involved that most people either can't or won't prepare. People tend to be very intellectually lazy.

I must also reply to your comment that "doomers and pollys will need each other no matter what happens". I think it would be more correct to say that the pollys (who didn't prepare) will need the doomers (who did prepare). Then it will be a matter of whether or not God convicts the doomers who prepared to have mercy on the pollys that didn't.

Welcome to the forum. IMO, most of the members who participate on this forum are easily in the top 1% of the population in terms of Y2K knowledge and awareness. Keep participating and looking for other sources of information on the internet and elsewhere, and above all, TAKE ACTION! Even if you're a latecomer to Y2K prep, there is still enough time remaining to make significant preparations.

-- Clyde (clydeblalock@hotmail.com), September 06, 1999.

Vern,

Even someone who was sure Y2K would be a BITR might not want to be grocery shopping in late December.

Even if 95% of needed remediation were done successfully, the other 5% might include your local water supply, or your bank, or your insulin supply, or your . . . .

There are many possible scenarios, and many ways of preparing.

Jerry

-- Jerry B (skeptic76@erols.com), September 06, 1999.

Ashton & Leska....Why did u give me an oratory on humanimals who will do as we already know and pose me with a question anyone can answer. You totally ignored my question. The Serbs and the Croats are a perfect example of what will happen in post y2k! Personal preparations other than intellectual and emotional are useless. A much larger support group other than your friends and family will be necessary.

-- Vern (bacon17@ibm.net), September 06, 1999.

Vern--Don't prepare at all, there's plenty of people on this board that will take you in. Just bring yourself and a hardy appetite. Just start whining and do the "I'm down on my luck, can't help myself," thing and you'll find a good home.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), September 06, 1999.

Clyde..........I have read almost every single source of information pertaining to y2k that is available on the net over the last 8 months and I still ask the same question...What is the use of preparing outside of normal (as the govt. and red cross call it) a winter storm type preparation? If the GRID crashes..........no preparation is enough. If the GRID stays up..............all things will be availabe to one extent or another, so unless you can prepare for several years or more for the simple reason of spending some money now to save some later, (I really would get tired of eating that freeze dried stuff day after day), why do it?

-- Vern (bacon17@ibm.net), September 06, 1999.

Vern,

No one can properly prepare for any scenario above a "5" and anything less than a "5" requires no "extra" preparation at all.

Your ass*umptions are invalid.

Look at your post title... What's the use? Why prepare? Then think about those you love. Then make some decisions and take action. Or not.

Something... is always better than nothing.

To paraphrase you... "May God/Goddess/The-All-That-Is have mercy on you and yours." Your choices may help. Or not.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), September 06, 1999.

Heh Vern! Why don't you use your own words that you gave to the disabled person 2 threads below:

"Not to be a smart aleck, but you have three choices; find someone to prepare for you, do it for yourself, or do nothing.--Vern (bacon17@ibm.net), September 06, 1999

You answered your own question here.

-- Rasty (Rasty@bulldoggg.com), September 06, 1999.

Rasty................that does not answer my question! Let me put my mindset into perspective...the disabled individual is a perfect example.....What Christian will sit at home with their "stockpile" while the disabled and afflicted are crying out for us. One more point, I haven't asked anyone to try and convince me to prepare, I already have to the extent I was motivated to, I am just wondering the same question...Why?...What's the use?

-- Vern (bacon17@ibm.net), September 06, 1999.

Why have you even prepared for anything if there's no use? When you say "we are in it together," what does that mean? Does it mean that everyone will be affected, why yes of course. The doomers will not need the polly's. Why do you think the doomers are trying to get the polly's to DO SOMETHING? I'm a doomer and I've tried to convince people to have something on hand to get through whatever scenario they think could possibly happen. They look at you like you been smoking something. And God won't have mercy on us, the best he can do is to let us die so our suffering will be swiftly put to an end. However, you can always mooch off friends and family and do nothing to prepare, it will save you a lot of time, effort and money.

-- Rasty (Rasty@bulldogg.com), September 06, 1999.

Rasty....when I say that we are all in it together...I am referring to a point that I believe was the doomers mistake, we made personal preparations and were unable to convince the community and/or failed to even try (outside of friends and family).....have you ever tried rowing upstream with a boat full of 40 people and only you are rowing? We were too damn selfish......we failed! What good is it gonna do us to have prepared when very few others have? Why prepare/What's the use?

-- Vern (bacon17@ibm.net), September 06, 1999.

Clyde..........I have read almost every single source of information pertaining to y2k that is available on the net over the last 8 months and I still ask the same question...What is the use of preparing outside of normal (as the govt. and red cross call it) a winter storm type preparation? If the GRID crashes..........no preparation is enough. If the GRID stays up..............all things will be availabe to one extent or another, so unless you can prepare for several years or more for the simple reason of spending some money now to save some later, (I really would get tired of eating that freeze dried stuff day after day), why do it?

Vern...You give up too easily...your choice though...

- I doubt the grid will crash but so what? I haven't been on the grid for years, and my ancestors didn't have one at all. What's the big deal? - If the grid stays up (and I think it will, most places, but will be very flakey) this doesn't mean everything will be fine. I expect liquid fuels to be one of the big problem areas which could bring about all sorts of shortages/problems. - I have food stored away (none freeze-dried) because if there are disruptions maybe I won't want to stand in the line at the grocery to get my ration of food for that week. Most of my food stores are normal stuff bought on sale at the grocery stored. I rotate the stock and eat the oldest stuff and save lots of money in the bargain. Canned veggies, beans and meats will last an awful long time. - It's a nice thought that we're all in this together but...I can't feed the 90% of my neighborhood (quite rural) that won't take responsibility for their own well being and make some preparations. I work as a disaster services volunteer and help folks all the time. However if Y2K turns out badly there's no way I'm feeding some slug who doesn't prepare or gives up too easily and take the food out of my 10 year old son's mouth.

This is definitly a personal event...We either decide to fend for ourselves and families or resign our well being to outside sources. I think the later is a stupid decision but heck it's a free country. We're free to survive or starve and I prefer the former. If it's bad I will be out helping the community (as I do during floods, landslides and fires) but since I don't have a crystal ball and don't know how long an emergency will last my food and other supplies will remain in our compound (and there will be people there on guard with guns to make sure it stays there).

DCK

-- Don Kulha (dkulha@vom.com), September 06, 1999.

Vern:

The more you prepare, the longer you survive.

You DO want to survive, don't you?

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), September 06, 1999.

Aaauuggghhh.... I'm agreeing with Vern... and hating it.

It's obvious to me that practically no one around me is preparing at all. It's obvious from what they've been discarding all summer, in garage sales & in their trash cans -- all sizes of wood, plastic bottles, candles, oil lamps, camp stoves, tools, warm clothing. I'm collecting/hoarding all of these things while my neighbors are quite obliviously getting RID of them!

You simply cannot be well-fed & warm for long if your neighbors are cold & hungry. I have elderly parents & so cannot leave the burbs & go live in the boonies. If it goes beyond a 7, all of my preparations will be useless.

As someone posted on one of these threads, & it still gives me chills -- "Species die-back is natural."

-- May God have mercy (on@us.all), September 06, 1999.

Vern, if I'm in a boat and I'm the only one rowing, there's going to be two things that will happen, (1) kick their butts off the boat, and (2) save myself. I think your a DGI that's trying to be a GI but you just can't seem to get past the "what if's." Why prepare? SO I CAN SAVE MYSELF AND FAMILY, THAT'S THE POINT! And if you can't seem to grasp that concept, then continue the way you are going and don't do anything at all. Worry about it when the time comes. The Lord helps those who help themselves.

-- Rasty (Rasty@bulldoggg.com), September 06, 1999.

Don.................I have to disagree with you whole heartedly....... divorce, death of a family member, loss of limb, cancer, those are personal events, Y2K is not!!!!!!!!! This was our mistake. We were too busy saving our own asses and felt embarassed when the poly's laughed at us when we talked about preparation with them, that we gave up talking about it for the most part. Not enough have prepared, and you DON'T have enough ammunition, guard man hours, or GUTS, to shoot 'em down when they come knockin'!

-- Vern (bacon17@ibm.net), September 06, 1999.

Rasty............you ain't gonna kick 40 people off no boat when they are hungry and thirsty and desperate, you ain't dealin' with Jews here, you are dealing with Americans. There will be no systematic death of poly's by the doomser's. At this point, you are now a DGI!

-- Vern (bacon17@ibm.net), September 06, 1999.

wHY???? wHY InDEEd!!!!! aS SOOn aS YoU WEre BOrN ThE TrIP tO tHe grAVe beGaN, iS THaT Not sO????? wHY BOthER brUSHiNG YoUR TeeTH????? tO IDentIFy yOUr coRPsE?????? vITAmiNS????? WHo nEEdS THeM????? TheY OnLY POstPOnE THe INevITAbLe, cANnOT YoU SEe thAT????? tO HeLL WIth EAtINg!!!!! wHY BOthER?????? iT OnLY COmeS OuT THe oTHeR EnD In a FEw hOUrS ANywAY!!!!! dIETeR Has NoT LeFT His BEd siNCE THeSE TruTHS BecAME SELf-evIDENt!!!!!!! wHY SHouLD He???????

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), September 06, 1999.

Vern: This thread is getting a little weird. People who have prepared for Y2K are not interested in shooting those who haven't. What do Jews have to do with this?

Those who have prepared may have to defend themselves and their families from rampaging pollys, it's true, and they may have to use firearms to do this, but it's not with some kind of hateful attitude.

-- cody varian (cody@y2ksurvive.com), September 06, 1999.

Sorry to butt in here as a newbie, though I've been lurking for a bit. I'm just curious....precisely what are you trying to accomplish here Vern? Possibly dishearten people? Discourage those who may be late in coming around but still hope to ensure their family's survival?

Just wondering, Tiara

-- Tiara (sorceress5@hotmail.com), September 06, 1999.

Don is right on the money! It is a personal event. I am personally taking care of business myself. My neighbors aren't helping, my immediate family is not helping (they think it's all a bunch of hype), and the government isn't helping me and don't want them to help me because they can screw up a mayonnaise sandwich. If you give a stray cat food, they keep coming back for more until you can't get rid of them. It's funny how they bring more cats with them too. Get the picture?

-- Rasty (Rasty@bulldoggg.com), September 06, 1999.

As Y2K threatens my children, I consider it a personal event. Those of us who know what's likely to happen have done all we can to warn others and have met with indifference, mockery and even anger. Personally, I'm out of patience with people who don't want to get it and I'll have even less patience next year.

-- cody (cody@y2ksurvive.com), September 06, 1999.

The point is Vern, it's every man for himself. That's the point.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), September 06, 1999.

An aspect of surviving in a cataclysmic time is the desire to survive. "army survival book"

IMHO extreme mental preparations are in order.

Only how do you mentally prepare for an unknown??

-- David Butts (dciinc@aol.com), September 06, 1999.

Vern: ".............all things will be availabe to one extent or another, so unless you can prepare for several years or more for the simple reason of spending some money now to save some later, (I really would get tired of eating that freeze dried stuff day after day), why do it?... What Christian will sit at home with their "stockpile" while the disabled and afflicted are crying out for us. Why?...What's the use?... divorce, death of a family member, loss of limb, cancer, those are personal events, Y2K is not!!!!!!!!

Your questions sound a little bit whiney. You seem to have two extreme options. 1) It won't be too bad and food/supplies will be available or 2) It will be horrible with uncontrolled looting, rioting, and pillaging etc. Supplies gone, people gone berserk....Woe is me!

Answering your questions depends on asking some. Do you live alone? Do you have any dependents, children, spouse, elderly parents etc. Assuming you have at least one dependent, the "why" is easily answered. So when they say, "I'm thirsty Vern", you can give them a drink, or "I'm hungry", you can give them food, or "I'm cold", you have a way to warm them up. What if only ONE looter ever came to bother you, but it was an armed person with the intention to kill and steal? Would you want to be able to protect that loved one depending on you? Or would you open your door and whine...'Go ahead, you might as well take it all, rape my wife and then kill us, I'm sure if not you there will be hundreds of other, blah blah'.... or would you pump that shotgun like a man? Assuming you are a man Vern.

Then you whine about eating freeze dried food. Poor picky you. Well, people raised on much finer cuisine have found themselves picking through moldy and buggy food to survive. I think your survival instinct would manage to choke down the freeze dried food just fine.

What Christian will sit home... are you assuming that those who prepare are all Christians? Better not check your brain at the door here. Read some old threads, and you will soon see that many people could give a rip as long as their stash is safe. They have suggested that the "disabled and afflicted" should have been left to die on an ice floe. If you are a Christian, then you should exercise diligent and earnest stewardship to prepare to help others, and trust in God rather than your preparations. Still, you will be accountable to him. Have you read how God had Joseph prepare for a seven year famine in Egypt?

You say Y2K is not a personal event, but believe me, it will BECOME quite personal when it is your own dear loved one who needs water, food, medicine, or protection.

It is people weak in character who give up, lose heart, and quit the race. I hope there aren't too many people depending on you.

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 06, 1999.

Dieter:

Would it be considered gratuitous to say, "LOL"? Vern

I applaud your compassion and understand your angst, but I think you're taking a rather narrow view.

You prepare for the really bad scenarios to buy yourself time. Suicide is an option you can reach out and touch anytime you choose, but living requires planning and preparation. Every day's prep you have is one day more that you can put off doing anything drastic. One more day to get your inventive/creative juices flowing. One more day to find out where their might be safe haven. And yes, if one is so disposed, on day more to be of help to someone else.

You prepare, to keep your options open. I hate to be overly dramatic, but to not prepare is to leave yourself only the option of a gun and a single bullet...

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), September 06, 1999.

Dieter, I am still laughing so much I can hardly type!

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 06, 1999.

Oooops...little formatting error, there. Everything after line 2 was addressed to Vern.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), September 06, 1999.

IMHO the only way to adequately mentally prepare for the unknown is to be mentally prepared for the worst. That being done, anything less is a "picnic", putting it in simplistic terms.

IF this were to come down to a 8-10 scenario, then nature takes over and the fittest survive...those with the most innate resiliency will do with what they had the foresight to gather and move on.

-- Tiara (sorceress5@hotmail.com), September 06, 1999.

Dieter............lol cody......"rampaging polly's"!!!!!!!!!!!! c'mon....they will be mother's with babies and children who had neither the know how or resources to prepare.....cont. Tiara.......I am not trying to dishearten anyone. Just trying to get the mindset of the doomer's to actually think about what they "think" they will do. It's one thing to have been actively preparing stockpiling food, water, etc......It's another thing to look at mothers with babies in their arms, children by their side, and tell them..."sorry, I cannot help you."....rat-a-tat-tat-tat

-- Vern (bacon17@ibm.net), September 06, 1999.

I see prepping for Y2K as personal. Part of being personally ready is preparing to help others. Some people (family members that I like and close friends) I want to be able to help to one degree. Everyone else that might come here in need to a much lesser degree. (Due to our location, that is very unlikely to be more than a handful even if it becomes a 10.)

Vern, you're full of it. Nothing less than a 10 will effect my life span, and the more I prepare now the less anything else will effect my quality of life. A big part of that "quality" is helping others.

I'm no Christian, or any other religion, but I was a full-time volunteer do-gooder for three years while living off my savings. I'd still be doing it if not for my concerns over next year. I'm busting butt this year so I can "do good" next year.

Since "we are in this together", I'd prefer you wouldn't just be another dead-weight. Save your whining for when you're in line for hand-outs next year. If there is a god, his/her/its mercy obviously isn't worth much.

-- Steve Hartzler (s.hartzler@usa.net), September 06, 1999.

As I recently told Bardou (who alludes to our polite conversation elsewhere), I will continue to assume that no one knows exactly what's going to happen. Whatever risks are posed by the Y2K problem, it is very important to make the distinction between risks and certainties (unless you really have a crystal ball or line to God). It may be a temptation to mistake a committment to serious preparation for the certainty that the end of the world is coming. So if you are like Bardou and your 18 months of preparations came at considerable expense, sacrifice, and emotional stress, I can imagine that you feel like the whole world is going to hell in a handbasket.

Or if you haven't been seriously busy in your preparations like oh so many GIs that I have met offline, then I can also imagine that you realize that you've made a terrible mistake and you might rather do nothing now than something. Why show up for the midterm if you skipped classes since the very beginning? Unfortunately, Y2K is not going away and you are going to deal with it (well or badly) as best you can (bump in the road or something worse). I understand. Sometimes, it just doesn't make sense to keep paying on the car insurance when you haven't had a wreck in years. But we keep our car insurance policy, anyway. Just in case. Why? Because the risks are significant to us.

I agree with you in many ways: many of us have failed to get the word out, many of us have thought a great deal about ourselves and not about others (or not enough about others), and this is the end game. But if you are prepared for the reasonable worst, you will be prepared to help those who need your help. Instead of standing in a food line, for example, you may be taxi-ing old and disabled folks to a local shelter. It's not too late for you to prepare in order that you may serve others. There will be things for you to do when Y2K hits, be ready. Be ready to rush to someone's rescue. Be ready to save a person's life. Be ready to put out a fire in your own neighborhood.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), September 06, 1999.

P.S. I wish I had neighbors like Ashton & Leska-- in good times or bad.

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), September 06, 1999.

Bardou,

You are one strange humanimal. Must be that your heart is two sizes too small. [grin]

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), September 06, 1999.

I wished I had neighbors like Leska & Ashton too, but unfortunately I'm stuck with DGIs, DGARA (don't give a rat's ass), and DBM (don't bug me). Be ready to put out your own fires and be ready to defend your own house and family, because no one else is going to do it for you. It's every man for himself and only the strong survive.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), September 06, 1999.

Stan--Since we are of the same species, that makes you just as strange as me. As for my heart, it's in the right place, taking care of business and watching my back, you never know when a bleeding heart liberal will stab you.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), September 06, 1999.

Vern *gettin' down* next year.

-- (hee@hee.hee), September 06, 1999.

Steve...there is a God, and He loves you! If enough doomser's would pray for His help with this situation and trust in Him, we could all quit preparing and go golfing, or whatever else it is that you like to do. Have you ever heard of miracles?

-- Vern (bacon17@ibm.net), September 06, 1999.

Hee Hee--I about busted a gut! ROTFLMAO!!!!! Thanks for the laugh, I needed that!

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), September 06, 1999.

Vern, don't give Christians a bad name by whining so much. Faith without works is dead!

-- Growupand (Be@nexample.com), September 06, 1999.

Vern- I am truly flabbergasted, but here's my take FWIW. I would like to think there is enough leeway in my preps to help someone who did not know any better. I could probably never say no to a child unless helping them comprimised my own. But I would not help someone who had the knowledge and resources to plan for this and chose to do nothing. Of course if you chose the road of untruth, you should now how many well honed BS detectors are out there. Buy some tuna for crissakes, dude.

-- Gia (laureltree7@hotmail.com), September 06, 1999.

Growupand.....where have I whined? I asked a simple question which you all have seemed to enjoy answering....What's the use? Why prepare? I got one good answer. Thank's Stan, I needed that!

-- Vern (bacon17@ibm.net), September 06, 1999.

Vern: I'm gonna be like Moses and take a preemptive attitude and kill all my neighbors and then say God told me to do it.

Heh Leska, alturism sounds like a really bad disease, it's about time we get rid of it and Y2K just may do it.

-- Mo (Mo@ses.com), September 06, 1999.

bardou, I have a DBM family next door.

Mr. DBM works on his cars every spare moment. Mrs. DBM is very silent. Miss DBM their daughter has a new DBM boyfriend from the University of Toledo.

No one in the neighborhood likes them, gets along with them or cares to know them as friends. When I first moved here, Mr. DBM told me his family keeps to themselves so they won't cause any trouble.

DBMs are no fun to be around. I bet Y2K will harden their DBM attitude. I don't know if they have guns.

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), September 06, 1999.

The recurent phrase in most of Vern's posts is "what's the use? Why bother?"

That is a cardinal sign of *depression*.

You've all tried to explain to him what he already knows. He's given up, simple.

Vern, you have to make a hard decision right now to either get yourself out of this state or curl up and die. You run the risk of curling up before Dec. 31 as even arrived.

My advice: 1)stop reading y2k forums 2)go see a pshychologist as soon as possible and get yourself on an enti-depressant.

With the state of mind you're in now, you will not wistand even a bump in the road. The #1 priority in your preps is being ready MENTALLY for the possibility of anything happening, from 1 to 10 on the scale. Then with your wits about, you will be able to make decisions for your and your close ones survival, no matter what the level of your preps are.

-- Chris (%$^&^@pond.com), September 06, 1999.

DiETeR: Please don't be such a stranger!! I've missed your posts, as I'm sure others have also. Hope you have time to keep in touch here and on Ed's forum.

-- jeanne (jeanne@hurry.now), September 06, 1999.

Chris, your a sensible man, I think your absolutely correct, Vern is suffering from Y2K depression. But there's one thing everyone has to do including Vern, is to either poop or get off the pot.

Randolph--There's DBMs everywhere. Our one and only GI neighbors are now DGARA, their computer wiz nephew told them it was all hype. All my talking and showing them evidence is down the tubes.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), September 06, 1999.

Sure Vern, God loves me alot. He's been real nice to all us rich folk. But he is worthless for the poor. I don't mean the so-called poor here in the states, I mean people with real economic difficulties. Perhaps next year there will be true poverty in America for you to experience. Feed your kids "god's love" 3 times a day and watch malnourishment in action.

-- Steve Hartzler (s.hartzler@usa.net), September 06, 1999.

Vern, Here is a link to a story that help us to deal with all this. http://www.babel2000.com/isaiah.html Hope it helps you too. Remember who is really in charge.

-- Bill (bill@tinfoil.com), September 06, 1999.

Vern = Andy Ray ?

Tiara: Do you like to mudwrestle?

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), September 06, 1999.

Vern,

God helps those who help themselves. Does God want us all to just lie down and die? I don't think so. By the way, many Americans are Jews. (Even Moslems and Hindus--Sikhs, too.) Why prep? Because we periodically get hungry.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), September 06, 1999.

Well Vern, quite a response you've illicited. I think you ask a basic philosophical question that could be asked at any point in one's life. But, having watched my father die from brain cancer, I know that if you are alive at all, you will want to live.

Everyone's situation is different, but if you have people you love or even just yourself, don't you want the best chance you can give yourself? I have friends that seem to feel the same way. The, "If I can't have my life-style as it is, I dont' want to live" crowd. We in America have it SO easy. Is that all your capable of, living in terms that are defined by this society? Which really gets to the point of changing your perception of 'what is a "life" anyway', which in essence is a deep soul searching task.

To do any of that, you'll need some food and water though. Who knows what may come of even tumultous events. I have moved from a life I love (the city) to a place where I have no friends. Just my Mom that I feel obligated to try and give the best chance.

It ain't gonna be no pic-nic.

Gregg

-- Gregg Abbott (g.abbott@worldnet.att.net), September 06, 1999.

New question....how does a lady prepare when her husband thinks she is a fool for doing ANYTHING to prepare...

-- sigh (all alone @the.end), September 06, 1999.

sigh, the husband is the fool.

*sigh*

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), September 06, 1999.

Thanks Randolph...but right now I feel like a Salmon....swimming upstream...there is only a minimal amount of stuff I can hide in the trunk of my car or under the bed. I can't believe that I am the only one with this problem. Perhaps we could start a "Poor Me" thread....

-- sigh (all alone@the end.com), September 06, 1999.

Thanks for all the great new acronyms. Here's mine for the DGI's in my neighborhood:

IGI YD DBM ESAD

I get it. You don't. Don't bother me. Eat shit and die!

-- me (me@here.com), September 06, 1999.

Of all the things I give thanks for, as Y2K approaches, the thing that I am happiest about, is that I don't live in Bardou's neighborhood.

Is it something in the water, where you live, Bardou? I didn't have the kinds of problems with neighbors, that you always refer to, when I used to live in a gritty inner-city area.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), September 06, 1999.

Dieter -- Marry me and I'll give you a reason to live ... and you can stay in bed too. :)

-- helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), September 06, 1999.

Bear with me folks,

This afternoon I went to our closest supermarket. My mom was a depression baby & I apparently inherited the squirrely genes {Thank God!}

We've got a feeble old doggy who can only stomach certain kinds of food and have life continue as we know it.

The Emporium Galorium had facsimilies of this food on sale, as well as other enticing items. Old ladies in the checkout line asked me how many kids I had.

The upshot is - I temporarily crashed one of their computers during my checkout. The manager said they were fine until "they made all the computers ok for Y2k", & since then they've been having trouble. Granted these could be garden variety flaws turned up by new installations.

While I was waiting, a neighbor that I seldom see was standing beside me at the next aisle. His wife is schizophrenic, and has recently spent a week in the hospital. We've known them for at least 16 years. He has to do the shopping now, his employer has given them no 'heads up' to prepare.

I've been through disasters in the past, that thankfully passed. I've never forgotten the people/establishments that helped, and those that could have but chose not to.

Vern, I don't know who you are, or what your motive is. In my experience, if you don't choose to prepare for whatever disaster - you are a fool. To those who are prepared and plan to refuse help to your neighbors, you are the bigger fools in the long run. Flame on.

-- flora (***@__._), September 06, 1999.

Bokonon: I'm glad you don't live in my neighborhood either. I am grateful and thankful to God for that.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), September 06, 1999.

*Greg*

You wrote: "I have moved from a life I love (the city) to a place where I have no friends. Just my Mom that I feel obligated to try and give the best chance."

Keep on keeping on!

*sigh*

You wrote: "Perhaps we could start a 'Poor Me' thread."

Perhaps, we can start a new section in the archives here or in the preparation forum for you and others. I've heard of this problem before. You're not alone. I'll also keep you in my prayers. [sigh]

*Tiara*

Welcome to the brood.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), September 07, 1999.

Bokonon--Where I live you wouldn't fit in, the militia would ream you a new ______ (you fill in the blank). My water is just fine, as a matter of fact, you will be wishing you lived where I live WTSHTF. I'll be toasting to you and Stan when your refugees down your last liter of water......bottoms up!

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), September 07, 1999.

Vern asks, "Why prepare?"

Vern implies, "Kick back, and expect miracles to take care of you."

Does Vern drive on the lefthand side of the road? run stop signs? Pass on blind corners? Smoke in bed? Rob banks? Why not? Vern expects miracles.

Does Vern insure his car? his house? his life, if he has dependents?

Does Vern have a health insurance plan?

Why prepare?

If life's not worth living, then preparation is foolish. Otherwise -- it makes sense.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), September 07, 1999.

VERN:

I don't know if this answer addresses your question, or whether it goes right by it, but here goes anyway.

I had a college English prof in the '40s after I came back from WWII, who had us read Joseph Conrad's "Heart of Darkness." I really didn't know what it was all about, or why the prof's eyes kept haunting us as he asked us questions about the book. (The prof was WAY out of place on that campus -- took his job too seriously, never went to the afternoon teas the President gave for his faculty, etc., etc.)

Didn't figure out what the book was about until after I ran smack into Y2K awareness in early Jan '97, upon reading Gary North's newsletter of that month. In the ensuing months, I went back & forth: doomer, polly, doomer, polly, ad nauseum. Finally, I became 'certain,' in Nov '99 that InfoMagic and I were the only ones who 'REALLY' knew how bad it is going to be. I'm now not as certain -- but still preparing for an 11 on a scale of 0 to 10.

So I think you'll agree I've got the bonafides to convince you I'm not a '2 wks and it'll all be back to normal' Doomster. That said here's my response:

1) You have looked into "the heart of darkness." The bulk of the posters here and on other y2k sites on the other hand have flinched, and blinked.

2) They use primarily two strategems to undercut a fullbore prep response to what may be coming. The first is to assume the mantle of Full On Doomster (replete with scathing flames directed at our resident Pollys.) While stalking around in that costume one can detect what they're really wearing underneath, by simply checking out some of their prep list details. Telltale is: storing water, instead of sourcing it; storing food instead of storing AND sourcing it; storing energy in the form of gasoline or diesel or propane, instead of storing AND preparing to generate it (via photovoltaic, wind, small-head hydro, or steam-engine driven alternators;) buying flashlights and kerosene lanterns and candles, instead of buying and/or building LED task lights; buying alkaline cells instead of nicads; staying in the cities or 'burbs' (because they "can't" leave for one reason or the other;) and, my pet peeve -- depending on a last minute 'bugout' strategy (while at the same time derisively slamming the corporate and gov't agencies planning on FOF [Fix On Failure] -- which is exactly what bugging out is!)

The other dynamic which allows them to avoid the core truths is: IGNORANCE OF THE TECHNICAL DETAILS INVOLVED IN SUCCESSFUL SURVIVAL if it comes to an 8, or 9, or 10, or? I've had it up to here with the mantra I've heard and read way too many times in the last 2 1/2 years: "Oh, we Americans really have that Ingenuity thing all locked up --- there's nothing we can't do when we put our mind to it!"

Like they know the difference between a zener diode, schottky diode, or a switching diode? Do they even know what a diode is?! Like they know what happens when they don't keep their lead-acid storage batteries charged up fully for long periods of time? Like they have even heard of the term that describes it, "sulfation?" Like they'll know how to take care of any infection that might come along by using herbal therapy? Like they know how to even grow, select, harvest, process, and prescribe herbals? Like they know how to collect rainwater, store it, prevent its contamination? Like they know how to purify water using solar distillation? Like they know how to preserve their crops using a technique that doesn't depend on going back to Wally-World to get more canning jar caps? Like they even know that you can do a much better job, preserving much more of the nutrients, in much less time and with much less fuss, by using solar dehydrators? Like they know how to BUILD one assuming they know they exist? Like they know how to weld at 2000 degrees Fahrenheit, using a 3 1/2-foot diameter Fresnel lens and sunlight? Like they even know what a Fresnel lens is?!! Like they know why their hand windup-generator Baygen SW receiver ain't gonna receive nothin' unless the commercial transmitting stations can use hand windup generators too? Like their 2meter handy-talky ham radios aren't gonna get them further than 10 or 15 miles if the repeater network goes down? Repeater network --- wha's dat?

Americans certainly know how to fix whatever gets broken. Yeah.

3) So, Vern, now we come to the meat of it. If I know all the above, how come I'm still preparing? Well, if the truth be known, I've been in the dumps where you are a couple of times in the past couple years. What pulled me out was the realization that:

WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE. FOR SURE. 100% But that was the rule of the game coming in; did we expect to somehow stumble on the Fountain of Youth, the Secret of Immortality and avoid The Man in Black? Really?

So finally I had to take a closeup look at the Big Illusion of Modern America: "Ican't die because I have too much going for me --- good food every day, a well-running automobile, surgery for the things that went wrong with my bod in the past few years, Maxide for my hypertension, air conditioning in the summer, a nice warm home in winter. Why I CAN'T die -- 'cause it must be discriminatory, or against some law or other, or just downright inhuman (and maybe anti-Christian?)!"

So Vern, when I lost the protection of this LAST illusion, how can I still go on, prepping every day, having fun doing it, even laughing and enjoying relaxing times with the rest of my family (who are mostly DGIs, yet so really charming?)

I found a good answer for myself. Maybe, if it's part of His plan, it might ring a bell for you. I stumbled on it by looking inwards long enough (How else do we find any significant truth?), but I never was able to articulate it as well as this little quote:

"Life is known only by those who have found a way to be comfortable with change and the unknown. Given the nature of life, there may be no security, but only adventure..." --- Rachel Naomi Remen.

God Bless you, Vern, and thanks for having the courage to reach into the Heart of Darkness.

Bill

-- William J. Schenker, MD (wjs@linkfast.net), September 07, 1999.

Great thoughts Bill. With a whole room full of cotton it's going to take me quite a while to figure out how to make a shirt!

-- Gregg Abbott (g.abbott@starting-point.com), September 07, 1999.

Bardou,

I wouldn't be so quick in what you pray for. I'd be the kind of "damned fool", to back up your lame ass, when your guns jam. You better hope there are a few like me around, when you finally "get it" that none of us will make it alone.

Your second post to me confused me alittle bit. Why are you always raving about not trusting your neighbors, if they're all G.I.?

Besides, your paranoia's showing thru, in the way you choose to read my previous post. I wasn't attacking you, I was wondering what's up with your neighbors that you are so wary of them.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), September 07, 1999.

Bokonon--Why don't you read my posts a second time and then you may just get it, I'll say it one more time NONE OF MY NEIGHBORS ARE GIs! They are all too busy golfing and having babies.

As for being a backup for covering our ass when the shooting begins, I'd say come on up, at least you'll be bringing something to the party. That's the only concern I have Bokonon, are the hungry, pissed-off intruders, holes are very difficult to dig where I'm located. Bardou

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), September 07, 1999.

The answer to "why do I prepare" is very simple - to keep my frail, elderly parents from going to a shelter. (By far the most intense preparation I am doing this year is moving my parent in with me. Bardou - I mentioned once I consider you and Old git as role models, thinking in particular of the considerable effort of taking in your mother.)

I am limited to the kind of help I can offer my community, because turning my home into a shelter could also be life-threatening to my parents. My DWGI neighbors are on the bottom of my list of folks I would want to risk my family's well-being for. I'll be there for them, but not necessarily in the ways they will most need.

Y2K is a unique event of unknown duration. If we don't know how long the disruptions will go on for, how do we know what we can reasonably spare?

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), September 07, 1999.

Bardou,

You said something to the effect of, "Where I live, you wouldn't fit in. The militias would (...do something or other to my ass)". That statement sounded to me like you were saying you live in a militia stronghold. I was confused because I had read quite a few other posts from you stating that your neighbors were all D.G.I..

So are you saying that you live in an area populated by D.G.I. militia people? Ooooooo, now THAT'S a scary thought.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), September 07, 1999.

bardou,

All these contentious GI postings foretell troublesome ordeals with DGIs WTSHTF.

Arguments, fighting, and gunshots, oh my!

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), September 07, 1999.

It is smart to prepare for the same reason you prepare to go to work or feed your family. Because the future is a big place and its nice to have a full belly and warm dry feet.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), September 07, 1999.