From another forum...

"Yes, there was involvement at the highest level of the White House in ordering the raid ( s ) on the Mount Carmel community of the Branch Davidians ( Seventh Day Adventists ) at Waco.

The core questions at this point should include not only WHO, but WHY? So where do we begin the trail that may have lead to Waco, Texas?

Let's start with a simple puzzling anomaly...

Ask yourself why the Ruby Ridge shooter, Len Horiuchi, was also at Waco. WHY? First of all, what were federal agents looking for on that mountain where the Weavers' lived? Then, what were they also looking for in the Mount Carmel compound?

Whatever it was, it was important enough as a national security issue to have the local police shunted aside ( who, incidentally, had a long-standing cordial relationship with David Koresch ) and to have the Texas Rangers virtually bypassed. It was also serious enough to warrant bringing in the BATF, the FBI and Delta Force! ( Some have even alleged that members of foreign security forces such as MI6 were on site as observers. ) Why? What was so crucial that it had to be either recovered from or destroyed and obliterated inside that Mount Carmel compund?

Why use an elephant gun against a few mosquitoes?

There has to be an answer... and indeed there is one, but you have to search long and hard to find it...

Hint:

Do a "Dogpile" "Google" or "aj" ( "Ask Jeeves" ) multi-search engine search on the following descriptors and you'll start to come closer to the truth:

Promis software

Inslaw

The "Octopus"

Michael Reconosciuto - - a brilliant computer programmer who put a backdoor and a trapdoor into the Promis banking and management software to turn it into global "snoopware" for the DoJ, making it a powerful international spy tool

Danny Casolaro - - a journalist; murdered as he investigated Promis and its distribution worldwide, which led him along a twisted trail ( which he nicknamed "The Octopus" ) to many other secrets

Paul Wilcher - - a lawyer; murdered as he followed up Casolaro's investigation of Promis and related allegations from one of his own ex-CIA clients, Gunther Russbacher Barry Kumnick - - a programmer who used his AI programming skills to modify Promis on contract from the DoJ and then ( foolishly ) kept a copy for himself

Jeff Little ( a link which has only recently come to light ) - - computer programmer; one of the Waco victims whose name has surfaced in connection with the Davidians' omputer system )

Summary:

The FBI were on Ruby Ridge looking for a neighbor of Randy Weaver, Barry Kumnick's father. Weaver had refused to spy on Kumnick for them and was getting in the way of their search. Actually, the feds were on the trail of Barry, the computer programmer mentioned above, who had gone missing with a pirated copy of a twice-modified, highly sensitive software package originally called "Promis," which the DoJ had virtually stolen from a company called "Inslaw" ( read what former AG Elliott Richardson had to say about this blatant theft ) . Many, many people have died ( been murdered or were 'suicided' ) or are/were imprisoned in the fallout from this case.

Suspicion is beginning to coalesce around the speculation that the feds thought that this missing Promis software, which Kumnick had modified for the DoJ with artificial intelligence to enable it to do profiling and which he himself described in a letter to his sister as "extremely dangerous if it fell into the wrong hands," was believed ( rightly or wrongly ) to be on the Davidians' computer system in their Mt Carmel community at Waco.

See the connection? Why else would a private religious community become the focus of undue national attention and, in fact, a major national security issue?

Thus, we have the snipers, the military presence ( in violation of Posse Comitatus ) , the various intelligence agencies, the flashbangs which started the huge fires, the complete destruction of the site and almost all the evidence, plus the involvement of the President, Hillary, Webster Hubbell and Vince Foster ( as WH point man shuttling between 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and the DoJ ) ...

Thus, too, we see what has since become a depressingly familiar pattern during this presidency, the designation of the hapless Janet Reno, the brand new and clueless AG, in a dual role of sacrificial lamb and/or stonewaller. Her role was to be the future patsy who would be set up to take the fall if and when things ever went badly wrong ( as they did then and are suddenly doing so again! ) or to stand in front of the President, like a modern version of King Canute with her shakey hand vainly trying to hold back the tide, and prevent a full-scale investigation.

If the lid were ever really lifted on Waco and if the reason for the raid was indeed proven to be a search for that missing modified Promis software, a lot of secrets from the eighties might surface and these took place on the watch of Dubya's Dad."

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 04, 1999

Answers

Coincidentally the above fits in with a theory I had come across regarding the mass deaths of those guys in So. Cal last year - remember they all supposedly commited suicide at the remote house - well the theory goes that it was a CIA hit - the group were heavily involved in web design and the subject of the promise s/w also came up...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 04, 1999.

How often is truth stranger than fiction?

Keep us posted.

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 04, 1999.

Any hints about why GW is so silent on all of this? Link please to the discussion. Here's another site you might want to check out: http://www.a r.utexas.edu/Staff/White/ECV.W.VF.html... give some hints as to GW's silence among other things. Lots of shared skeletons.. if any of this is true of course.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), September 04, 1999.

Of course... :)

Thanks for the link...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 04, 1999.

Waco, Vince Foster, and the Secret War

by Mack White

In the year after the famous fire at Waco, I met the surviving Branch Davidians. It was through a friend of mine, Richard Mosley, who produced the documentary Day 51: The True Story of Waco.

I had done some research on Jonestown, the CIA mind control facility in Guyana which had come to a spectular end in 1977. Officially, Jonestown was a mass suicide, and when the Mt. Carmel complex in Waco caught on the fire, the FBI immediately labeled it "another Jonestown." In reality, however, Jonestown itself was not "another Jonestown." It has been established long ago that most of the Jonestown dead did not voluntarily drink the Evil Kool-Aid, but showed signs of having been either forcibly injected with cyanide or killed by machine gun.

So in the summer I was interviewed in the documentary stating something to that effect. Then the following April, one year after the fire, the documentary was finished and Richard invited me to attend a screening in Waco with the surviving Branch Davidians. This came at an opportune time, for I had just taken on assignment from The Nose magazine to do a three-page piece of comics journalism, "Waco: One Year Later" (later reprinted in Villa of the Mysteries #2). I was eager to meet the surviving Davidians and hear firsthand what had happened.

So I drove to Waco on a Wednesday night--the first anniversary date, April 19, was exactly one week away--and met them. There were about a dozen Davidians in attendance, including Clive Doyle, Sheila Martin, and Wally Kennett.

I found these people to be--well, just that--people, not the fiendish "cultists" described by the mainstream media. They were a quiet lot, not at all pushy with their religion, and seemed, more than anything else, sad and puzzled by the way they had been demonized by the government and the mainstream media.

They told me how, during the previous year, they had all been interviewed by a woman reporter from ABC's 20/20. They had told her many things, such as how the Davidians who had run out the back of the flaming building--the side not covered by television cameras--had been killed by FBI sniper fire. The reporter had been excited by these revelations, and told them it was going to be a powerful segment. "Be sure to watch," she told them. They did, and were dismayed to find their interviews liberally edited. The business about the snipers, among other things, had been left out. The reporter called them the next day to apologize. It was not her fault, she told them. It had been her producer in New York who had censored the story.

Fortunately, Day 51 was not subject to censorship. Among the things dealt with in that documentary was the FBI sniper fire. Yet, at that early date, there was no hard physical evidence for these shootings-- only the testimony of the surviving Davidians .Since then, however, another documentary has appeared--Waco: The Rules of Engagement--in which infrared video taken by a surveillance helicopter clearly shows sniper fire, as well as tanks firing incendiary devices into the building.

One thing not dealt with in Rules of Engagement, however, is the cause of the Waco massacre. Yes, we get an explanation, but it is the standard one: It was funding time in Congress, the ATF wanted to put on a big show, things got out of hand, mistakes were made, etc. etc. But is that really all there is to say about the matter?

Day 51 interviewed Davidian Wally Kennett, who stated the ATF was in actuality not looking for an illegal arsenal when they raided Mt. Carmel on February 28, 1993, but rather for information stored on a computer. This information, he alleged, had been compiled by two Davidians--Jeff Little and Wayne Martin--both of whom were killed in the final assault on April 19. Furthermore, Kennett states that it was this computer, not guns or anything else, that was kept in the room which the ATF attempted to enter the morning of the raid.

If this is so, then it explains why the ATF went ahead with the raid on February 28, when they knew the bulk of the arsenal had been taken to Austin for a gun show that morning.

Jeff Little was known by the Davidians to have been a "computer expert" who had previously worked for the Yamaha Corporation, and had been involved in a shady project to modify a law enforcement software to contain a "trap door." At the time Day 51 was produced, this tidbit of information meant nothing. However, in the years that have followed, new information has emerged which gives it a great deal of meaning.

The Octopus: Secret Government and the Death of Danny Casolaro, by Kenn Thomas and Jim Keith, is one of several books to emerge recently which detail how the Reagan Justice Department stole PROMIS, a law enforcement software, from the firm INSLAW, and modified it to contain a "trap door." PROMIS was then sold by the government to various entities, such as foreign intelligence agencies. From the moment this software was installed, the trap door allowed outside monitoring of all that agency's computer transactions.

It has also been alleged by internet writers such as J. Orlin Grabbe that Vince Foster, the late White House Special Counsel, was involved in this scheme. Supposedly Foster, a law partner of Hillary Clinton's, had for many years been an operative of the National Security Agency, and it had been under his supervision that PROMIS was modified for use by banks.

Foster died under mysterious circumstances shortly after the fire at Waco. Many have doubted the official version of his death--suicide-- and have pointed to a considerable body of evidence indicating murder. Yet it is not clear who killed Foster, or why.

According to one theory, he had fallen victim to a group of CIA renegades known as the Fifth Column which were dedicated to eradicting corruption in the government. Supposedly, Fifth Column operatives have been travelling around the country in a truck loaded with a Cray computer, which they use to empty the Swiss bank accounts of corrupt government officials. The software program used for this purpose is the modified version of PROMIS.

So it was dramatic justice indeed that Foster, who had supervised the PROMIS project, fell victim to his own project. The story goes, he checked the balance of his Swiss account one day and found it empty. That was when he knew he was in trouble.

This money had come to Foster due to his involvement in what is now known as the October Surprise. Allegedly, Foster, acting under the auspices of George Bush and Casper Weinberger, had arranged for the transfer of nuclear launch codes to Israel, in return for their role in mediating the delayed release of the hostages in Iran.

Numerous parties, then, may have had reason to kill Foster, in order to prevent the scandal that was about to break. Some say it was the Mossad, and claim surveillance video exists which shows Mossad agents leaving Foster's apartment on the day of his death.

Yet, officially, the explanation for Foster's death remains suicide. We are asked to believe that this lawyer was a sensitive soul who, with the Travel Office scandal and Whitewater threatening to engulf him, could no longer endure the cruel world of politics and so bade farewell not only to Washington, but to life itself.

Vince Foster's widow, however, has another explanation for his alleged suicide. In an Associated Press story, she stated his death had something to do with the Waco incident, which had occurred only a few months before. According to her, he felt responsible for what happened in Waco, and that is why he killed himself.

If it is true that Foster was involved in the modification of PROMIS, and if it is true, as the surviving Branch Davidians claim, that Jeff Little was involved in a government project which sounds suspiciously like the modification of PROMIS, then it would seem we have found another, deeper link between Foster and Waco.

Many have alleged that Mt. Carmel Center was an intelligence front of some kind. For instance, the minister of a rival Davidian church in Waco told me that, under Koresh, it had been a biowarfare factory. This view was shared by lawyer and "Patriot" Linda Thompson, who in a Penthouse interview, alleged it was a CIA facility, and that the ATF raid was orchestrated by the FBI, acting in alliance with Israel's Mossad, to shut the factory.

At first I was inclined to dismiss this idea. However, since Waco, we have seen evidence that a Japanese "cult" was involved in the manufacture and terrorist use of deadly sarin gas. So this cannot be ruled out as the sort of activity for which a church might be used as a front.

And yet, there is no evidence biological warfare agents were being manufactured at Waco. There is evidence, however, that an amphetamine factory existed at Waco. This comes from the Davidians themselves.

After David Koresh took over leadership of the group in the 1980s, the Davidians were renovating Mt. Carmel and found evidence of this factory. They alleged it had been the work of former leader George Roden. Indeed, it was well known throughout Texas in the early 1980s that the "best speed" came from Waco.

Roden left after a power struggle with Koresh. At last report, he was living in a mental institution in Big Spring, Texas. On at least two occasions he has escaped from this facility, and once managed to travel all the way to the Israeli embassy in New York. He claims some sort of connection with the Israeli government.

Israel figured prominently in Koresh's life, too. It was while on a trip to Israel in the 1980s that he received a "vision" which started him on his new career as spiritual leader. The book Why Waco? reports that Koresh continued to receive visions after returning to the U.S., and that the insights he used for his sermons always originated as pictures being beamed into his head.

One is reminded here of the Gnostic imagery which the late science fiction author Philip K. Dick claimed was beamed into his head by an external entity. Perhaps Dick's and Koresh's "visions" originated from God, perhaps from extraterrestrials, perhaps from their own minds, or perhaps they were delivered by microwave. More than one person has suggested Dick might have been a mind control victim, and the allegation has also been raised that Waco might have been a Jonestown-style mind control facility.

Whatever the explanation for Koresh's visions, his leadership represented a new era for the church. There is no evidence speed, or sarin, or anything of the kind,was manufactured during his tenure at Waco. What does seem to have gone on, though, is computer espionage-- if what the Davidians say about their deceased brethren Jeff Little and Wayne Martin can be believed.

The question then becomes, if Little and Martin were engaged in such activity, what could have been the nature of the information they were gathering?

In Day 51, Richard Mosley took a guess and suggested it might have had something to do with ATF-sponsored illegal arms distributions to urban street gangs. However, he has since eliminated that suggestion from the latest edition of the documentary, preferring to leave the question open.

The presence of a speed lab at Waco has led some to speculate on a connection to cocaine smuggling at Mena, Arkanas. According to books such as Compromised and articles in The Wall Street Journal and London Daily Telegraph this activity was sponsored by the Iran/Contra gang (Bush, Weinberger, Oliver North). Weapons were shipped to Nicaragua out of the Mena airport, in exchange for cocaine which was brought back to Mena, then distributed throughout the nation. As governor of Arkansas at that time, Bill Clinton is alleged to have received a hefty amount of cash for looking the other way.

Investigative journalist Sherman Skolnick has claimed that, prior to his death, Vince Foster had been tracking Clinton's money into offshore accounts--supposedly at the behest of First Lady Hillary Clinton who had her own reasons for wanting to know the whereabouts of her husband's money. If this is so, perhaps it was done with the modified PROMIS software; perhaps, too, Jeff Little and Wayne Martin were the operatives directly engaged in this activity. This, of course, is only a guess. Skolnick's claim is hardly evidence of anything. However, it has been reported that Foster's Waco files ended up in the possession of Mrs. Clinton.

In the documentary Waco: The Big Lie, video footage of the raid on Mt. Carmel appears to show three ATF agents being killed by "friendly" fire. We see the agents enter the window, leaving a fourth agent on the roof. He then sprays the wall with machine gun fire. Many believe this was when the three men died, and many think it deliberate.

If so, what makes it all the more perplexing is that these three dead agents had all been personal bodyguards of Bill Clinton's during the presidential campaign. Furthermore, shortly afer the fire, a story circulated in Waco that, during a campaign stop there the summer before, these three had accompanied Clinton to a barber shop where he received a haircut from a barber who was a Branch Davidian. The five are said to have had a long, private conversation.

Could the information on Jeff Little's computer have been the subject of that reputed conversation? If so, then that strange incident during the raid takes on the appearance of one faction of government attempting to retrieve the information, while another faction interferes with that retrieval.

The infrared video footage featured so prominently in Rules of Engagement is believed to have been leaked by William Colby, former director of the CIA. Shortly after this leak occurred, Colby died under mysterious circumstances. He had, during the last few years of his life, been involved with the Strategic Investments newsletter, which has been responsible for many of the anti-Clinton exposes, such as Vince Foster's death and drug smuggling at Mena, Arkansas.

These are the pieces of the puzzle. They suggest a big story-- possibly a secret war between two factions of government. Yet there are too many pieces of the puzzle missing. We cannot know the exact nature of this war until we know what was on that computer in Waco. This is not likely to happen any time soon, as the computer, if it existed at all, long ago went up in flames.

Note: In September 1999, Rumor Mill Newsletter reported that revelations with regard to Waco (evidence of the FBI's firing of incendiary devices, involvement of Delta Force, etc.) in the mainstream media were the result of factional fighting at the highest levels of power. According to this theory, the Bush family has been moving away from the New World Order faction. Allegations with regard to Gov. George W. Bush's cocaine usage are supposedly pressure tactics to bring the Bush family back into the New World Order fold. However, Bush's counter-move has been to reveal information on Waco, which would be damaging to the Clinton/New World Order faction. This is an interesting possiblity, which, if true, would seem to corroborate the theory in this article that Waco represented the surface eruption of a covert civil war. It will be interesting to see what develops in the weeks ahead. The Clinton term in office began with Waco, and it appears it may end with Waco.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 04, 1999.

Zzzzzzz zzzzzzzz zzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzz zzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzz ...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 04, 1999.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), September 04, 1999.

Touche old chap :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 04, 1999.

Andy, Liberty, King of Spain, Will Continue

Would you four consider starting your own forum? Call it Disturbed Right Wing Fanatics Conspiracy Theories. Isolate yourself from the sane and educated. Take your poisoned minds off into your own little corner. It is difficult to imagine you people having a normal life with a normal family.

-- Be (gone@you.morons), September 04, 1999.

Andy, before you start your own looney forum please tell me if it was Courtney Cox or Courtney Love who killed Kurt Cobain. And the other one killed Vince Foster, Right??

-- Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts (jim1bets@worldnet.att.net), September 04, 1999.

OK, so UFOs, amphetamine, and haircuts aside, here's the unanswered question:

Is PROMIS y2k-compliant?

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), September 04, 1999.

Very good! You are very close to the truth. Look deeper into the Promis s/w and a copy of it held by another. Good luck, check your six, this could be costly.

-- M (TTD@nexus.com), September 04, 1999.

what I want to know is this:

I have at least 300 ancestors/predecessors who have died. How many conspiracies were involved?

Surely Ol' Pal Andy will have the answer. Or can dream one up, at any rate.

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), September 04, 1999.

"Be": Why the hell are you dragging me into this? Or other people who have not yet posted, perhaps not even read this? For that matter, Andy posts lots of stuff for consideration, does not necessarily state that he buys into it. You moron.

Chicken Little: And you are a moron, too. Just on general principle.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), September 04, 1999.

King....On general principal.

-- Be (gone@you.morons), September 04, 1999.

(spell check on) principle

-- Be (gone@you.morons), September 04, 1999.

http://www. tdbooks.com/ebooks/lastcircle/chpt5.html http://www.federal.com/ins lawsc.html

"After several Congressional investigations concluded wrongdoing by the Justice Department and called for the appointment of a special prosecutor, Attorney General William Barr in 1992 appointed lawyer Nicholas Bua to investigate the Inslaw scandal. Bua impaneled a grand jury, but dismissed it midway through the investigation, allegedly because it was giving credence to the allegations and constituted a "runaway" grand jury.

In June 1993 the Bua report was released. It cleared Justice officials of any wrong doing in the case.

Inslaw Attorney Elliot Richardson issued a statement saying, "What I have seen of [the report] is remarkable both for its credulity in accepting at face value denials of complicity in wrongdoing against Inslaw and for its failure to pursue leads making those denials implausible."

On July 12, 1993 Inslaw submitted a 90-page rebuttal of the Bua report to Associate Attorney General Webster Hubbell. The rebuttal offered evidence that the Bua report was false. What Inslaw probably did not know at time, however, was that Webster Hubbell and White House Deputy Counsel Vince Foster apparently were linked to both Iran- Contra and Inslaw through two Arkansas companies called Park-on-Meter and Systematics.

On July 20, 1993 Vince Foster was found dead in Fort Marcy Park. Three days later, attorney Paul Wilcher, allegedly investigating "The Octopus" was found dead.

-- Ostrich (behaving@typically.edu), September 04, 1999.

http://www.dabney.com/WacoMuseum/

-- J (jart5@bellsouth.net), September 04, 1999.

Andy -- keep it coming. Non illigitimi carborundum..

Others: Applicability to Y2K: What kind of world do you want to live in, post Y2K? One with more of the same, and the noose tighter around your neck? Or one where you may have an opportunity to get rid of the noose and breathe free?

-- A (A@AisA.com), September 04, 1999.

Andy,

The basis of this linkage between the Inslaw/Promis thing and Waco would be Jeff Little, Waco victim. What's his connection to Promis? What's the source of the rumor that a copy Promis 4.O (or whatever) was on a Mt. Carmel computer?

As for you little boys who've dropped in here and taken a squat on this thread, you're only demonstrating your willful ignorance. To meaningfully rebut Andy, you have to show that 1. A Promis/Waco connection is nonexistent (I'd appreciate an honest effort at this), or 2. Such a connection is unimportant. If you can somehow show that the Inslaw/Promise affair itself is nonexistent or irrelevant, there's a job for you at the State Department.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 04, 1999.

To the known morons taking a dump on this thread - look up the term Devil's Advocate... as Liberty said prove me wrong - this information is already all over the net, now's your chance to make a name for yourselves...

Liberty,

this story is not going to go away, there is a power struggle going on amongst various factions and knowledge is power - stuff is being leaked, disinformation too, with damage control from all sides it seems...

the source of the claim I heard about the CIA hit in California is Sollog - you can check out his web site - he goes into the hit in detail on the Art Bell show archives - he was on a while back - just a piece of the puzzle...

-- andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 04, 1999.

Ron Schwartz mentioned:

"OK, so UFOs, amphetamine, and haircuts aside, here's the unanswered question: Is PROMIS y2k-compliant? "

I sure wouldn't want to be on the team that accesses or remediates PROMIS, based on the alleged history of others who've worked on it.

-- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (dtmiller@nevia.net), September 04, 1999.

Got it in one, Dean, nor would being a Clinton body-guard interest me much - hazardous duty pay doesn't come that high!

-- T the C (tricia_canuck@hotmail.com), September 05, 1999.

Wasn't it our favorite "Rogue Warrior" - Dick Marcinko that trumpeted the fact that there is no such thing as a coincidence in SPECWAR?

-- (snowleopard6@webtv.net), September 05, 1999.

Andy you say = Coincidentally the above fits in with a theory I had come across regarding the mass deaths of those guys in So. Cal last year - remember they all supposedly commited suicide at the remote house - well the theory goes that it was a CIA hit - the group were heavily involved in web design and the subject of the promise s/w also came up...

There's oddles of weird things about the Heaven's Gate *deaths*. One interesting tidbit I got directly (since I know someone who worked at one of the other multimillion dollar houses nearby) is that moving vans were there BEFORE the cops arrived. Wonder why?

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), September 05, 1999.

Andy you say = Coincidentally the above fits in with a theory I had come across regarding the mass deaths of those guys in So. Cal last year - remember they all supposedly commited suicide at the remote house - well the theory goes that it was a CIA hit - the group were heavily involved in web design and the subject of the promise s/w also came up...

There's oodles of weird things about the Heaven's Gate *deaths*. One interesting tidbit I got directly (since I know someone who worked at one of the other multimillion dollar houses nearby) is that moving vans were there BEFORE the cops arrived. Wonder why?

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), September 05, 1999.

Here's the link to the Sollog interview, you need RealAudio to listen:

http://www.broadcast.com/shows/endoftheline/9704/end0421.ram

Another oddity about Heaven's Gate is that they were NEVER pro- suicide. They only became publicly suicidal AFTER THEY DIED, as their website was altered the day after their *murders*.

-- OR (orwelliator@biosys.net), September 05, 1999.

Top.

All - listen to the Heaven's gate real audio that OR provided at the bottom of this thread - then consider Jonestown and Waco...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 05, 1999.

this links up waco and jonestown to cia mind control allegations...

http://www.sightings.com/politics4/wilcher.htm

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 06, 1999.