A lot of people see the film "Waco: The Rules of Engagement," and the scales fall from their eyes. They are moved, personally. They never again view the political process, or the news media, with the same trust and acceptance they may have had before. Even very cynical people of my aquaintance have had jaw-dropping experiences, with tears involved in many cases, as the truth sinks in. A poster below asked, "what can I do?" The urge to do something, anything, seems to be common. Watching this film and doing nothing would be like watching a rape take place in an alleyway and doing nothing. I am on this forum, urging you to watch the film. You, in turn (after you've seen it) can introduce the film to your friends, family and cooworkers. What is need to change things is a perception on the part of government and the media that we're just not buying it. We know better, and we want the truth. We want real justice and accountability. So knowing the truth is the first step. Then holding it, taking charge of it, taking responsibility for remembering it. Then sharing it with others. If we all respond in this way, we will awaken as a people to what happened at Waco; there will be justice; and it won't happen again. But we have to make an effort as individuals, or it won't happen; the liars will win, and Wacos will occur again and again, until we do make that effort. Here's the page where you can order a copy. Watch it with friends, loan it out (you might want to buy a second copy for this purpose). If I were a person of means, I would send them to community leaders, church leaders, people of the local press. But I'm not, so all I can do is write this, and urge my own friends to watch this.

I am not connected to anyone selling this tape, as I've been accused of. My motivation is the same as that of Roland, in the "is there NOTHING we can do?" post, below. The truth has a grip on me. I've decided to serve it, just as the people who control the press and the political process - and those who submit to them, out of greed or fear or lassitude - are serving lies.

Don't let them win.

http://www.waco93.com/order.htm

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 03, 1999

Answers

To the top of New Answers, sezame!

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), September 03, 1999.

You can also rent it from Blockbuster Video (don't know if this is national outlet or not) and you can buy it at Borders Books (Wash. DC area)

-- KoFE (your@town.USA), September 03, 1999.

Liberty

Am there, doing that. Have been since the documentry came out. No one continues with the "They were Wacko's" line afterwards. I think that Koresh was guilty of statutory rape (over which the BATF has no jurisdiction) but that changes nothing about actions of our government at Waco.

Watch six and keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), September 03, 1999.

I second the motion.

-- I am (potent308@hotmail.com), September 03, 1999.

Liberty. OK, White flag waving, truce. I no longer care if you are selling this Waco video or not and your passionate mission to bring justice to the entire proceedings is admirable. That said, I must ask you a question in the hopes you will give a measured response. Do you hold David Koresh responsible for any of the tragic outcome? I will look forward to reading your input.

-- For (your@info.com), September 03, 1999.

What can be done against a governmnet bent on tyranny? Follow the money. When the republic of Russia withheld its rubles from the Soviet Union, the U.S.S.R. collapsed. Income taxes support the bloated Washington bureaucracy...

-- Sandmann (Sandmann@alasbab.com), September 03, 1999.

WOW-----Liberty, calm down. I thought Timmy Mcfay evened the score. That made the FEDS. wake up more then you would even believe. Besides you should be squareing-up your preps wright know, instead of watching movies, remember after the roll-over John Q Public will have 10,000 to one odds over those FED types. Needless to say they dont need this WACO thing to be brought up again and so close to roll-over.

-- Les (yoyo@tolate.com), September 03, 1999.

Les,

I would bet nickles to navy beans that you haven't yet seen "Waco: The Rules of Engagement." And it's not because I need the beans...

I don't see what Oklahoma has to do with Waco, regardless of what McVeigh may have been thinking. That's just inflammatory. But glibness is understandable, given that you haven't seen the film.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 03, 1999.

There is no "settling the score" when innocent children are involved!

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), September 03, 1999.

For,

You are suggesting Koresh was responsible. In what way? I think I've covered the sorry claim that he was obligated to come out when it was clear that doing so would have put the children (and everyone else) in obvious danger (this is a no-brainer if you've seen the film, "Waco: The Rules of Engagement"). Tell me how Koresh might have conceivably been responsible, and I'll tell you if I agree, and why. RE the fire, note that "Waco: The Rules of Engagement" shows very clearly and unambiguously that not only was the assault force responsible for the blaze, IT WAS DELIBERATELY SET. Even clearer is the evidence showing the attackers firing on the occupants of the burning building; the latter would constitute "proof" in a legal sense, whereas the setting of the blaze is merely apparent. And I have no problem reasoning backward from the PROOF that they were firing on inhabitants of a burning building (and therefore wanted them to die by fire) to the supposition that that fire was to all appearances, and in all probability, DELIBERATELY SET.

This gives some insight into the psychology of the forces involved here, information to remember as we "Right-Wing Y2k-Preparing Religious Nuts" get ready to watch the mobilization of the military, or militarized police, in the aftermath of Y2k: FOUR OF THEM ARE WORTH MORE THAN 80 OF US.

BTW: Thank you, For, for not being a total bastard, and asking a civil question. Have you seen the film yet?

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 03, 1999.

Liberty,

I Left this question on one of your earlier threads that you haven't made it back to, so this is a duplicate post---

OT, but this seems as good a place as any to put it...saw your mention elsewhere of your home state. East or West side? Curious to know if we might be neighbors.

-- RUOK (RUOK@yesiam.com), September 03, 1999.

I have not seen the film "The Rules of Engagement" but I saw on live TV on a local station the entire confrontation and saw the fire break out at both ends of the wooden compound almost simultaneously just as the bull dozers began to doze the building. I am of the opinion that the people in the compound started the fire just as they threated to do.

-- Nadine Zint (nadine@hillsboro.net), September 03, 1999.

Nadine,

Well, if you know what happened already, don't foul up a solid conclusion with mere facts.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 03, 1999.

Liberty,

I, for one, appreciate VERY much the attention you continue to give this sickening incident. The similarities between potential Y2k disruptions and what really happened at Waco ie.,: truthfulness (or lack thereof) from TPTB and the trust most citizens place in their government, 'official information' given to the citizenry, the rationale behind the decisions made, the potential for abuse of power -- all of these things need -- no, MUST -- be examined and re- examined by ALL of us who are proud to call ourselves AMERICANS. I don't think it's as much of a privilege to question and examine what went on/is going on and WHY, as much as it is an OBLIGATION.

I'd like you to know that public awareness of the Waco tragedy *is* perking up; I called around to 5 Blockbuster Video stores today, trying to locate a copy of of the Waco movie to rent. All of the stores I called had every copy of this tape rented! I'll continue to look and call around this weekend.

I have the same feeling of anticipation of watching this film that I did when I planned a trip to Washington, D.C. last fall; I knew I wanted and 'needed' to visit the Holocaust Survivors Memorial, yet I really dreaded it. I ended up visiting it two separate times, and in doing so, had one of the most profound experiences I've ever had in my entire lifetime.

NEVER AGAIN.

-- Wilferd (WilferdW@aol.com), September 03, 1999.

Liberty, I think Koresh is most assuredly 'part' of the problem. Man, I have seen this movie at least 15 times and last night we showed it to a group of over 14 friends. There was a great deal of discussion after the movie, lots of heated comments, no tears. There were Catholics, Christians, Jews, and a few folks with limited religious convictions. I want to clarify this because the area of religion seemed to play a big role in most of the comments. My wife was raised in a Southern Baptist atmosphere and I have a Catholic background. To a person, the government was given very low marks. Most felt that the filmmakers were using the standard tools of spin with the editing and sound track. This however did not deter us from blaming every agency involved and we all agreed that major crimes were committed and prosecution should commence as soon as possible. But in the end it was Mr. Vernon Howell (AKA: David Koresh) that received the brunt of our wrath. We live in an era where religion has become the escape clause for just too much, and many folks are just tired of it. Koresh told his people and the whole world that he would lead his followers out of the compound and resolve the situation in the courts. Many did leave as you see in the film. Hell yes they were arrested. Did you expect them to be bused down to Sea World for the weekend? Then, out of the blue, Koresh said that God had spoken to him. Told him to wait. This is where we had a major credibility problem with Koresh. What if God had spoken to the FBI agent-in- charge and told him to wipeout everyone in the compound? Would that make it OK? The more you see and hear Koresh in that film, the more you become convinced that he would force a violent conclusion on his followers.

I will not allow you to continue to let this man off the hook. He must take his rightful place in the history of this tragedy. Dead crazies too often become martyrs for the worst of reasons. I agree with you that everone should see this film, at least twice.

-- For (your@info.com), September 03, 1999.

-- Incase (u@missed.it), September 04, 1999.

Since Liberty has told me that the police state vs. freedom for the individual is more important than Y2K, I feel compelled to respond to as many old Waco threads as possible. I'd skipped reading all of them up to the point of responding to "Waco: Enough Already!". In that same post I've been told I should have gotten the point that it is on topic by reading the threads about it and that I should just bypass the threads. I can't keep up with that logic.

When do we get through with Waco, draw worthwhile conclusions and return to Y2K? Shouldn't there be a Waco FAQ or something to send folks too that want to see the same rants over and over?

-- TM (digiratoX@mindspring.com), September 04, 1999.

FYI, when I tried to rent Waco: Rules of Engagement on Friday from a Northern Virginia Blockbuster, they did not own one to rent. I had them call three other Blockbusters in reasonable driving distance, and none had a copy either. I put it (and the sequel to come out in Sept.) on their list of films patrons wished them to obtain. Don't know if it will do any good, but worth a try. Plus, all my cash must go into preps for me and for my daughter's triplets (what with Uncle Sam having given our shipbuilding to other nations, and my son-in-law being laid off from a second shipyard!) so I cannot buy it. However, the website at WacoMuseum made me physically nauseated, and I wish everyone would read that horrible account. If even a small portion of it were true, and I suspect that much more than that is, we should ALL be outraged enough to speak out and tell others, and try to force our leaders to look at what this president and his cohorts did at Waco. And as far as its relevance to Y2K, it is entirely relevant, because if THIS is the government's manner of dealing with its citizens, what will happen to all preparers who they can label as being the "right wing cause" of the event?!?!

Once again, I thank you, Liberty, for your input to this forum. You help awaken us all. Keep on keeping on. God bless you!

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), September 06, 1999.