This is the "Waco: The Rules of Engagement" news page. They also have a great gallery of still photos. If you get bogged down in the politics and the prostituted press, just go to the photo gallery on this page and look at those kids sitting on their couch with their barbie dolls. When you hear the word "compound" think of that couch. When you here the word "cult" think of those kids, playing with their toys.

http://www.waco93.com/press.htm

And the lies go on... All this about the "two" CS canisters is more spin, more coverup. Watch the film (you can order it from this page) and you can see them pumping the stuff in there, detonating it with a "pyrotechnic device" of unknown type, and firing on their victims with machine guns to make sure they burn. But no, they're "throwing us a bone" by admitting they use of "two" military CS rounds, and we're supposed to roll over go back to sleep. Apparently this film, "Waco the Rules of Engagement" is unofficially blacklisted; no one in the govt./press power elites seems to want to talk about it; check out the squirming that's going on to dodge this evidence:

(begin drudge)

TAPE BLOCKBUSTER: DELTA FORCE SHOWN IN SHOOT-OUT AT WACO

Filmmaker Mike McNulty is claiming that his follow-up documentary to the Oscar-nominated "Waco: Rules of Engagement" will show on videotape Delta Force commandos in a gun battle at Waco!

These explosive charges were raised by syndicated columnist and host Robert Novak on Thursday's Crossfire when he posed the following scenario to guest Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-NY):

(JOINED IN PROGRESS...)

NOVAK: Let me give you a major issue involved, and that is that Mike McNulty, who has a documentary that is going to come out in a few weeks, says that he shows on the documentary members of the commando -- U.S. Army commando group Delta Force in a gunfight with the Koresh people. For this information to come out now, six years later, if his video shows that, that's a disgrace, isn't it?"

WEINER: You know, can I tell you, ever since this incident happened, there have been conspiracy theorists who have sought to keep it alive...

NOVAK: As a reporter, Mr. Weiner, I would be very interested in seeing this video and seeing whether indeed we have documentary evidence of this gunfight going on with Delta Force people without an authorization needed by law from the president. Wouldn't you as a congressman and a member of the Judiciary Committee like to see that tape before you make these conclusions saying that it's a conspiracy theory?

(WEINER AND NOVAK GO BACK AND FORTH, WEINER NOT DIRECTLY ANSWERING NOVAK'S LINE OF QUESTIONING...)

NOVAK: Just one minute -- why won't you answer my question?

WEINER: Bob, I answered your question.

NOVAK: No. Would you...

WEINER: I am interested. I am interested. I want to...

NOVAK: Would you like to see that video?

WEINER: I'm interested in seeing an independent investigation of this and we're going to get that, and Janet Reno is the person leading the call for that.

(END TAPE...)

McNulty's film, "Waco, A New Revelation", is being released directly to home video in mid-September.

(end drudge)

And furthermore: remember the only four agents to die at Waco? Who all JUST HAPPENED to be former body guards for President Clinton? Well, the M.D. who autopsied them JUST HAPPENED to be the same M.D. who did the autopsies on Clinton's former business partner and accuser, Web Hubble. This guy is named Neezam Peerwani (I wonder if you owns a rubber stamp that says "Natural Causes"?). Here are the two news items that verify this:

(begin articles)

Coroner Discounts Prozac Dose As Factor in McDougal's Death The Washington Post, May 01, 1998, FINAL Edition By: From news services Section: A SECTION, p. A22 Story Type: News National Line Count: 23 Word Count: 256

DALLAS, April 30 - Imprisoned Whitewater figure James B. McDougal died of natural causes, even though he had an abnormal amount of the antidepressant drug Prozac in his system, a medical examiner said today.

Tarrant County Medical Examiner Nizam Peerwani said that McDougal, 57, suffered a sudden heart attack while in solitary confinement at a federal prison in Fort Worth March 8 but that it was unrelated to the Prozac in his system.

"There is no evidence of foul play," Peerwani said. "It was a run-of-the-mill natural death."

McDougal, a former business partner of President Clinton and first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton, had been in failing health for years.

Peerwani discounted reports that McDougal had been given too much Prozac, saying he had been receiving about 60 milligrams per day, well within the normal range of 20 to 100 milligrams.

"It is a very safe drug with very little side effects," Peerwani said, although he said there are some cases on record in which high levels of Prozac might have contributed to a death.

Daniel R. Dunne, a spokesman for the U.S. Bureau of Prisons in Washington, said the level of Prozac in McDougal's system "was consistent with his medical needs" and that McDougal had been advised about the dosage. "The amount of medication that he was on did not contribute to his death," Dunne said.

The executor of McDougal's Arkansas estate said the autopsy results were a comfort because conspiracy theories about his death had been expected. "We should be grateful of what they are saying: that there was nothing extremely amiss," said Claudia Riley of Arkadelphia, Ark.

2 CULT DEAD WERE SHOT, OFFICIAL SAYS WACO INVESTIGATORS HAUL AWAY AMMUNITION Sun Sentinel (FL) - SUNDAY April 25, 1993 By: The Washington Post Edition: SPORTS FINAL Section: NATIONAL Page: 11A Word Count: 452 MEMO: Related articles: 1A: Believers took many roads to Waco; Officials halt removal of bodies

TEXT: FORT WORTH, Texas - Two of the Branch Davidians whose bodies were recovered this week from the ruins of Ranch Apocalypse died of single "gunshot wounds to the head," authorities said Saturday.

Nizam Peerwani, chief medical examiner of Tarrant County, said that a man and a woman whose charred corpses were found atop a bunker had been shot, but he would not elaborate on the location of the wounds or the type of firearm used. He said four others -- two men and two women -- died of smoke inhalation.

The report confirmed early speculation by federal officials that some of the cult members had been shot to death before their bodies were burned by the immense fire that consumed the compound last week.

(end articles)

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 03, 1999

Answers

of course "you" should be "he" in "...he owns a rubber stamp..."

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 03, 1999.

Here is an easy-to-use

Link

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), September 03, 1999.

Here is an easy-to-use corrected

Link

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), September 03, 1999.

Liberty.

OK, White flag waving, truce. I no longer care if you are selling this Waco video or not and your passionate mission to bring justice to the entire proceedings is admirable. That said, I must ask you a question in the hopes you will give a measured response. Do you hold David Koresh responsible for any of the tragic outcome? I will look forward to reading your input.

-- For (your@info.com), September 03, 1999.

If you get bogged down in the politics and the prostituted press, just go to the photo gallery on this page and look at those kids sitting on their couch with their barbie dolls. When you hear the word "compound" think of that couch. When you here the word "cult" think of those kids, playing with their toys.

Compound = The home the children were living in.

Cult = The group of people that had children under their care.

Are you suggesting that what ever the Gov. did was wrong because there were children involved?

What about the adults that were responsible for those children?

They could have left the compound or at least get the kids out. They CHOSE to stay.

-- (they@chose_to.stay), September 03, 1999.

David Koresh, an absolute nutzoid, being held "responsible". About as responsible as a looney toone can be, oh sure.

Let me ask you a question, "For": If Liberty is gracious enough to respond to your request for an answer, will you go crawl back under the rock from which you crawled out of? You really are getting to be an annoying little prick, you know.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), September 03, 1999.

King, just when I was making a real effort to be civil, you come along with your brainfried comments and ruin it all. You continue to prove what a narrow minded pin-head you are with your analysis of the 'nutzoid' David Koresh. Now, stay with me here for a minute King and see if we can bring some focus to your remarks. You appear to dismiss Koresh for his actions due to his mental state, correct. So when Koresh told the Davidians and the rest of the world that God had told Him to wait and not leave the compound, that these were the words of a mentally disturbed 'Loone', as you put it. Or were you just trying to be cute with those words? I don't know why I'm wasting comments on a retard like you. Have a great weekend.

-- For (your@info.com), September 03, 1999.

The Federal government committed mass murder. The victims are not responsible for their own execution. End of story.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), September 03, 1999.

"They,"

The Davidians didn't come out because they were attacked by overwhelming force, without cause, and they continued to be shot at. The men outside had just lost four of their comrades, and made their intention to kill the Davidians clear. This was apparent from the hostile and lewd behavior of the agents in the field. The BATF fired first, and fired later, during a time when they claimed no shots were fired. If you haven't seen the film, "Waco: The Rules of Engagement," you have to take the government's word for it - and we've seen lately how truthful they've been about Waco. Just see the film, it's very clear. They were presented with unlawful, overwhelming force, and utterly justified in defending themselves - a position that the Texas courts have upheld. They believed, and repeatedly stated, that they were pinned down; they believed (correctly) that the forces who assaulted them were in violation of the law, that they were dealing with a lawless, unconstitutional force, and that if they were to deliver their children into the hands of these men, who were dropping their pants and making obscene and threatening gestures to them, they would be derilict in their duty as parents (which, if you've seen the film, you know they took very seriously; their children were not only precious to them as children; they also had deep religious significance). Koresh, at one point, wounded, begs the negotiators not to burn the Davidians to death if Koresh should die of his wounds. He had reason to believe that the negotiations were not in good faith, that the agents meant to exact vengance - and that's what they did. And after they were done, they bulldozed the evidence of their crime.

When you gain the full and complete view of what happened there, from the clear desire of the BATF to avoid negotiations and stage a violent raid for publicity purposes, to the illegal use of military tanks, helicopters and Delta Force operatives, to the "serving of the warrant" with a volley of gunfire, to use of psyops (audio of dentists drills and rabbits being slaughtered to induce sleep-deprivation), to the final torching of the compound and firing on the trapped occupants, I don't think there's any way an honest person can look at all this and choose to begin the apportioning of blame with the refusal of the Davidians to submit to this completely avoidable, barbaric assault.

Remember: there is no evidence that the Davidians were engaged in any crime. One gun is said to have been converted from semi- to fully-automatic, but when the NRA wanted to x-ray the guns, using the same service as was used by the government in the World Trade Center bombing, the DOJ refused. Allegations of child abuse come from disgruntled former church members. The Davidians committed no crimes. They ordered some gun parts that could have been used to convert semi- to full-auto, but there was and remains no evidence that these parts were ever used. Furthermore, Koresh went to town weekly. He was on good terms with the Sheriff. The warrant for his arrest could have been easily served - but the BATF wanted a violent raid.

Watch the film (it's at most video store now, if you don't want to buy it, and someone said HBO will be showing it frequently). If you still think Koresh is the problem with this picture, post again and correct my misunderstanding.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 03, 1999.

Hey Liberty, do you remember how many weeks Koresh and his lunatic followers were allowed time to give up. Do you remember how many times Koresh lied he would give up.

Sure the government f_cked up and the whole thing went to hell, but a government can only wait so long before they have to do something.

Do you remember the standoff in Peru?. What if those nuts in Peru called themselves "christians" would you have been "at the ready now?".

Get a life.

-- truth (truth@thereadynow.com), September 03, 1999.

For,

Maybe God did tell him to stay, knowing what the government would do. Maybe God wanted us all to know what kind of government we're living under, how they think of us all, and what they are capable of. Maybe God wants to know how we'll react, as individuals, when we find out.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 03, 1999.

truth,

In defending the immolation of innocent children for budgetary purposes, you are, in my mind, as guilty as if you had set the fire, or pulled the trigger yourself. You recede before me into an abyss.

The members of the Shining Path were violent, had a long history of violence, and had taken a building full of hostages (innocent and not-so-innocent) by force. You aren't comparing apples and oranges; you are comparing apples and turds.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 03, 1999.

Liberty is a bleeding-heart republican. He thinks he understands a situation and cries and beats his chest but he doesnt see the logical side of things. The Branch Davidians that Koresch led were all brain washed, just like the idiots in guayana following Jim jones and the idiots in California who chopped off their dicks and waited for the space ship.

Korsech didnt have to do what he did, he was a ranting fool who intimidated his followers just like all religious zealots do.

-- binky (binky@boinky.com), September 03, 1999.

Liberty, you are stupid to think it was about money. Go ahead and defend Koresh. Nobody really knows what happened in the compound but those of us who watched it every day for more than a month and listened to the "Psycho of Waco" talk in circles know it was another weirdo who caused his own demise and took down his sheep with him.

-- truth (truth@thereadynow.com), September 03, 1999.

Binky hasn't seen the tape "Waco, The Rules of Engagement." I'm sure he would prefer the video action game version - playing the part of a Delta Force member, with a really big gun.

This is why we need to watch the video, dig for the facts, ignore the lies. This is why we have to know the truth and share it with people we love: because, if we fail in this, BINKY IS OUR FUTURE.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 03, 1999.

"truth,"

Money was one of the reasons the FBI itself gave as to why it couldn't wait for Koresh to finish writing his 7 Seals text. So you are calling THEM stupid. I don't think so; I think it was heartless.

You watched what you were SHOWN. Many people turn away from Waco and shield their eyes from it, repeating "nobody knows what happened there..." like a mantra to protect themselves from the responsibility of FINDING OUT. Why not see the film I recommend, "Waco: The Rules of Engagement," and get back to us, if you are so concerned with "truth"?

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 03, 1999.

Liberty, I think Koresh is most assuredly 'part' of the problem. Man, I have seen this movie at least 15 times and last night we showed it to a group of over 14 friends. There was a great deal of discussion after the movie, lots of heated comments, no tears. There were Catholics, Christians, Jews, and a few folks with limited religious convictions. I want to clarify this because the area of religion seemed to play a big role in most of the comments. My wife was raised in a Southern Baptist atmosphere and I have a Catholic background. To a person, the government was given very low marks. Most felt that the filmmakers were using the standard tools of spin with the editing and sound track. This however did not deter us from blaming every agency involved and we all agreed that major crimes were committed and prosecution should commence as soon as possible.

But in the end it was Mr. Vernon Howell (AKA: David Koresh) that received the brunt of our wrath. We live in an era where religion has become the escape clause for just too much, and many folks are just tired of it. Koresh told his people and the whole world that he would lead his followers out of the compound and resolve the situation in the courts. Many did leave as you see in the film. Hell yes they were arrested. Did you expect them to be bused down to Sea World for the weekend? Then, out of the blue, Koresh said that God had spoken to him. Told him to wait. This is where we had a major credibility problem with Koresh. What if God had spoken to the FBI agent-in- charge and told him to wipeout everyone in the compound? Would that make it OK? The more you see and hear Koresh in that film, the more you become convinced that he would force a violent conclusion on his followers.

I will not allow you to continue to let this man off the hook. He must take his rightful place in the history of this tragedy. Dead crazies too often become martyrs for the worst of reasons. I agree with you that everone should see this film, at least twice.

-- For (your@info.com), September 03, 1999.

No, Liberty. You believe what you were shown and sucked it in hook, line and sinker.

Six years have passed, a quarter billion people live happy lives without more of these "waco" incidents happening. Cant you come to grips with the fact is was something that just happened because of too many mistakes on both sides and Koresh was no saint.

Stop defending a nut, unless you are looking for a reason to overthrow the government.

-- truth (truth@thereadynow.com), September 03, 1999.

I would like to pose a general question, on the order of "What does the name 'FBI Hostage RESCUE Team' mean to you?" As a way to understand the question better, let me pose the following scenario:

A perfectly SANE bank robber takes a few people as hostage when his bank robbery attempt fails. The first police officers on the scene are killed in action. A "hostage rescue team" is sent in. They do the following: 1) burn the place; 2) As the fire is burning, machine gun both the bank robber as well as the innocent hostages.

And I am sure that ALL of use will agree that CHILDREN are INNOCENT, regardless of whatever adults (loosely defined, especially on THIS forum) do.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), September 03, 1999.

KOS is on the mark you guys, with one caveat: THOSE PEOPLE WEREN'T HOSTAGES. Everyone was free to step into the BATF's line of fire at any time.

The BATF/FBI/Delta Force set the fire. They shot at people -including children- trying to escape the fire they set. THIS IS MASS MURDER, a LAWLESS ACT OF VENGANCE. We're both looking at the same horror, but you ultimately blame - the victims!

I think you're concern about my "trying to overthrow the government" is the key to understanding where you're coming from. It tells me that for you, justice is not the issue. This crime is such a big blot on the reputation of the government, that truth and justice must take a backseat to shoring up the rotten edifice of the Fed. "Let's just get back to normal and pretend it didn't happen"? Well, sorry, some of us have read the Constitution. The Founders told us this would happen if we went asleep at the wheel. They also told us how to deal with it. Right now, we are. We are educating ourselves, communicating freely (despite your best efforts), and demanding that our Representatives drop whatever they're holding and get to work on our behalf. You see, my little statist comrade, we, the people, ARE the government. It is OF, BY and FOR us. We made it, we tear it down every four years and remake it again. If it EVER stops working the way WE made it, WE can take the rotten thing apart and REMAKE IT TRUE TO PLAN. That plan is the Constitution of the United States of America.

And you babble on about the imagined excesses of the Davidian religion.

And furthermore: Did you know that Clinton has denied signing a release for the use of Delta Force? In order for this operation to have been anything close to legitimate, the Pres would have to give his express consent. Therefore, whatever the hell this child-eating, church-burning, dick-waving monster was, it WAS NOT, IN POINT OF FACT, MY GOVERNMENT, AND IT WAS NOT YOUR GOVERNMENT. Without Presidential approval for the use of those troops, it was A CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY, USING STOLEN GOVERNMENT PROPERTY TO COMMIT MASS-MURDER. I have no problem "overthrowing" such. And despite my being a Jeffersonian Democrat "at the ready," I pray to God that what's left of a legitimate Republic manages to overthrow this beast in their midst, before the people have are forced, reluctanly, to do the job, AS IS NOT ONLY THEIR RIGHT, BUT THEIR DUTY, UNDER THE CONSTITUTION.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 03, 1999.

Sorry about the caps, everbody. Somehow I think if I shout, it will get through to them.

There's a film of a rally at Nuremberg, in Nazi Germany. In it, there's a woman, with a look in her eye... beyond reason.

Beyond reason.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 03, 1999.

"Six years have passed, a quarter billion people live happy lives without more of these "waco" incidents happening."

Maybe someone could point Mr/s Truth to the thread about the 64 year old Los Angeles grandfather, killed by 2 gunshot wounds in the back, when his sleeping family was assaulted by law enforcement in the middle of the night---

-- Pa-tooee (you@WouldNotKnowThe.Truth), September 03, 1999.

-- (cleaning crew@html.com), September 03, 1999.

BATF = Bureaucrats Are Terrified of Firearms. I feel the need to ask some of you, exactly what part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

If this had been a 'compound' of homosexuals and their children, the liberals would be screaming from the rooftops loud and clear, but christain nuts are a dime a dozen and a danger to society? It wouldn't matter if they worshipped navel lint.

Whatever. I'm not about to defend any*one* in particular, just their rights. Americans are being stripped of them daily and rather than acknowledging the fact, we resort to making excuses and fear taking a stand for them. If you don't know your rights, you don't have any and don't deserve them! Whatever laws the Davidians broke, seem extremely fuzzy to me. The laws broken by those who are sworn to uphold them are becoming clearer every day in this incident. VERY uncomfortable feeling, isn't it?

Wake up and floss the grass out of your teeth.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), September 03, 1999.

Will,

Wake up and floss the grass out of your teeth.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), September 03, 1999.

I Will as soon as you do.

-- (willing@to.floss), September 03, 1999.