Looks like things are under control now, but things got a little dicey here. Bet you didn't see that on the news due to the "tear gas
controversy". Wake up people, your life is hanging in this delicate
balance. This should have made national news. The latest headline I saw on Reuters (sorry forgot to copy it) said the plant was now in hot stanby and that a team of NRC specialists had been sent in to figure out exactly what happened. Let me translate that for you, THEY DON'T FREAKING KNOW!!! But you just keep following that there WACO
gubmint conspiracy bullshit and ignore this? Of course they used tear gas, they killed those people by accident. That sometimes happens when you put yourself in harms way. Guess what you are all in harms way right NOW.
Daily Events Report U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Operations Center
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Power Reactor Event Number: 36104 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FACILITY: INDIAN POINT REGION: 1 NOTIFICATION DATE: 08/31/1999 UNIT: [2] [] [] STATE: NY NOTIFICATION TIME: 16:01[EDT] RXTYPE: [2] W-4-LP,[3] W-4-LP EVENT DATE: 08/31/1999 -----------------------------------------EVENT TIME: 14:30[EDT] NRC NOTIFIED BY: DENNIS CORNAX LAST UPDATE DATE: 08/31/1999 HQ OPS OFFICER: BOB STRANSKY ----------------------------- ------------------------------------------PERSON ORGANIZATION EMERGENCY CLASS: N/A JOHN ROGGE R1 10 CFR SECTION: ED GOODWIN NRR ARPS 50.72(b)(2)(ii) RPS ACTUATION FRANK CONGEL IRO AESF 50.72(b)(2)(ii) ESF ACTUATION ---------------------------------------------------------------------- UNIT SCRAM CODERX CRITINIT PWR INIT RX MODE CURR PWR CURR RX MODE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 2 A/R Y 100 Power Operation 0 Hot Standby ---------------------------------------------------------------------- EVENT TEXT ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AUTOMATIC REACTOR TRIP WITH COMPLICATIONS
An automatic reactor trip/turbine trip occurred due to an overtemperature differential temperature (OTdT) trip signal. The licensee was replacing Channel 3 pressurizer low pressure trip bistables when a spurious OTdT trip signal occurred on Channel 4, completing the 2/4 logic. Following the trip, control rod K-2 of Control Bank D had an indicated position of 14.4 steps out from fully inserted. All other control rods are fully inserted.
Following the trip, 480 VAC bus 6A received an undervoltage trip signal, causing buses 2A, 3A, 5A, and 6A to transfer to their associated emergency diesel generators (EDGs) (22, 21, and 23, respectively). Buses 2A, 3A, and 5A are currently being supplied by the EDGs; however, the output breaker for EDG 23 tripped upon loading to bus 6A, which remains deenergized. Operators manually started the turbine driven auxiliary feedwater pump due to the loss of control power to one of the motor driven AFW pumps caused by the loss of bus 6A.
The unit is currently stable in hot standby. The licensee is currently troubleshooting bus 6A in anticipation of restoring power. The NRC resident inspector has been informed of this event by the licensee.
HOO Note: See Event #36107.
* * *
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Power Reactor Event Number: 36107 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FACILITY: INDIAN POINT EGION: 1 NOTIFICATION DATE: 08/31/1999 UNIT: [2] [] [] TATE: NY NOTIFICATION TIME: 22:39[EDT] RXTYPE: [2] W-4-LP,[3] W-4-LP EVENT DATE: 08/31/1999 -----------------------------------------EVENT TIME: 21:55[EDT] NRC NOTIFIED BY: MARK STUBBLE LAST UPDATE DATE: 09/01/1999 HQ OPS OFFICER: BOB STRANSKY ----------------------------- ------------------------------------------PERSON ORGANIZATION EMERGENCY CLASS: UNU JOHN WHITE R1 10 CFR SECTION: DAVID MATTHEWS NRR AAEC 50.72 (a) (1) (I) EMERGENCY DECLARED CHARLES MILLER IRO JOHN ROGGE R1 GENE CANUPP FEMA
---------------------------------------------------------------------- UNIT SCRAM CODERX CRITINIT PWR INIT RX MODE CURR PWR CURR RX MODE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 2 N N 0 Hot Standby 0 Hot Standby ---------------------------------------------------------------------- EVENT TEXT ---------------------------------------------------------------------- UNUSUAL EVENT DUE TO LOSS OF MOST CONTROL ROOM ANNUNCIATORS
An Unusual Event was declared at 2155 EDT due to an unplanned loss of greater than 75% of the control room safety system annunciators for longer than 15 minutes. The licensee reported that the annunciators are currently inoperable, and that additional panel walkdowns are being performed. The unit is currently stable in Hot Standby following a reactor trip earlier today (see EN 36104). The NRC resident inspector has been informed, and is in the control room.
* * UPDATE AT 0157 EDT ON 9/1/99 BY MARK STUBBLE TO FANGIE JONES * *
The plant conditions are improving and the plant is stable in Hot Shutdown. The annunciators have been restored. The previous problem with 480 VAC busses on Event #36104 has been found to be related to the loss of the annunciators. Further evaluation is ongoing and the licensee expects to exit the Unusual Event soon.
The licensee notified the NRC Resident Inspector. The HOO notified the R1DO (John White), NRR EO (David Matthews), and IRO Manager (Charles Miller).
* * UPDATE AT 0343 EDT ON 9/1/99 BY MARK STUBBLE TO FANGIE JONES * *
The plant has exited the Unusual Event, the plant is in normal Hot Shutdown. The licensee has notified the NRC Resident. The HOO notified the R1DO (John White), NRR EO (David Matthews), IRO Manager (Charles Miller), and FEMA (Gene Canupp)
........maybe we would follow these things if they appeared in any
news media we read. Don't come in with a batch of inside the loop
communications and blame us because we haven't seen them. that
attitude is pathetic.
drop the news, and then provide a link for verification, dude
Gordon, both events are relevant to the near future. As for Waco; rent the documentary; then talk about it. I think you may have a different veiw. As for the power plants; we may have 108 chernobyles. Got any prep advice? I'd like to hear some. Which reminds me, I once asked a friend if Calvert Cliffs(where he works) "went chernobyle", would Wash DC, 65mi away, be far enough away, and he told me Montana wouldn't be far enough.
Nothing insider about it. I'm sorry for comming off rightous,
my bad. I am of the opinion that this Waco information is being
actively released to maximum airplay and distract from Y2K. Sorry
if I offended. As far as preps, I plan to be in a location that is
350 miles from any nuclear plant. I will have to leave my home to do
that and I don't care.
Thanks for the info. You are a smart guy, and you're obviously
willing to look at things other people would rather remain in the
dark about. When and if you rent the video, "Waco: The Rules of
Engagement," you are therefore likely to change your mind about the
bullshit level of this gubbmint conspiracy. It's not just about Waco;
the same mechanisms are in place to lie about and minimize the dangers
of nuclear power and nuclear waste as there are to lie about and
minimize government mass-murder. To the person that literally gets
burned, it doesn't really matter, does it? Please see the film.
Gordon this sounds very serious, Do you know what precentage the core
was breached before they went into hot standby, and can you find out
if there was an environmental radiation steam overpressure release.
Info above indicates failure of cooling pumps which means the rods
became uncovered and started meltdown and heat up process. looks like
they stabilized it, but must have been serious to notify fema. Keep
us informed, I have family that lives back there.
as for waco - politics, yes, the t rangers release evidence now for a
reason, point is, it could be a double/treble bluff, these folks are
playing hardball, y2k is imminent, ANYTHING to distract attention
from y2k and the markets, ANYTHING
Hey, I'm the first to admit, I think the whole thing sucked. They
should've just bagged old Dave Jesus whilst he was jogging, instead
the situation went FUBAR and innocent people were killed.
I can't help those people. Ever. They're dead. I'm more concerned
about the people who're alive here and now. We're in harms way right
now damnit and no one gives a shit......Waco will look like a rotary
club meeting compared to some of the stuff that can occur here with
this problem.... it's already happening...
Gordon, this seems very serious, but I have to take everyone's words
so far for it. I can
understand your reaction though. Priorities dictate that we worry
about immediate danger.
I would like for someone who understand how nuclear plants work to
dissect/explain for us in layman's terms what the original post means,
and just how close we came to a 'chernobyl' if indeed plants in the US
can go Chernobyl.
Only 350n miles away from a nuke... that would be not enugh. We where
more then that away in western Europe when chernobil went and we had
the crap all over our pasture and thousends of gallons of milk went
to the Gov. to be dried and stored in salt caverns . My grandfather
went nearly bankrupt because of it. 350miles eh? It will not be far
enugh.
I knew the whole release of Waco evidence was timed to distract from
something. Yes Waco was horrible - is horrible. Yes it could and
probably will happen again. What is worse is that those poor people
are being dragged from their incendiary graves to fulfill the
political agenda of the people who perpetrated the massacre. It
worked too.
The whole thing sickens me.
Focus people. Focus.
Thanks for the heads up Gordo. My prayers go out to everyone there.
BTW, for those following the "plant explosions explosion" phenomenon,
this would make it the first nuke plant near "explosion"...if you
catch my drift.
I just remembered, Waco: The rules of engagemet, is carrie by Blockbuster Video now. And it will be on HBO several times this month. Not to make light of the nukes,for sure. I just don't have a clue of what can be done about it.Let's not forget; THEY are gonna leave them up for the rollover.
Okay, you guys, I really want to know. In college chem class, my instructor at UNM told us that when the plutonium bomb was being tested, the Los Alamos folks were worried the entire planet would be poisoned should the thing not implode as designed. Is this what you're referring to above? If D.C. melts, my family is not going to be safe in West Virginia? I thought that theory about the vast consequences of plutonium pollution had been disproved. I mean what good are all those PI pills we're buying?
CD: This was an emergency, not really an accident. The worst
accidents in history were Chernobyl and TMI; neither was a
"meltdown". In a meltdown, the core cannot be cooled or the reactor
moderated (stopped) and the whole shebang becomes a huge mass of
fissionable steel, cement and uranium that melts through the floor of
the containment vessel (6 feet of concrete) and into the Earth. Since
it's never happened, where it stops no one knows (hence the name China
syndrome). However, the contamination of ground water caused by such
an incident would represent the worst man made disaster in history.
Now consider that there are hundreds and hundreds of nuke facilities
and you start to understand why nuclear activists have a hard time
sleeping at night. Especially come 01-01-0h-oh.
I agree with y2k aware mike. It sounds as if there is
core damage in the vacinity of Control Rod K-2 of Control Bank D,
preventing it's complete reinsertion. Notice that the staff was
changing valves, etc when the problem occurred.
Out here in the
desert, we have what is today the biggest nuke in the world. If you
look up the stats, Chernobyl and St.Petersburg are 2% and 1% larger,
respectfully. Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station is currently
producing at almost 10% above the original license capacity...with
the blessing of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission!
So is there any evidence that this is related to a Y2k failure?
And what's the scoop on the American nuclear plant Y2k readiness
generally? It's' hard for me to believe that they would just roll the
dice on a possible meltdown. Their backup/shutdown systems must be
adequate, for them to keep running. But then again, that's what we
all said about Y2k: "they couldn't possibly have been that stupid and
shortsighted..."
(you'll notice I'm not talking about Waco - that means I'm taking you
very seriously)
You're talking about an emergency fail-safe shutdown, triggering (or
more probably simply revealing) some other equipment failures.
Despite these, everything failed safe like it was supposed to. That
things didn't go according to plan is bad; that there was no
radiation release is good, proving that the original engineering
allowed adequate safety margins for the extra things that went wrong.
In short, it's a serious wake-up call to the plant management.
I don't think one should speculate on the single control rod that
wouldn't fully insert. Doubtless it will be investigated in detail
and reported in due course. The cause might be as simple as a foreign
object dropped into its channel, or damage to the one rod in question
unrelated to core operation. What you should know is that there are a
lot more control rods than are necessary to perform a full shutdown,
so failure of a single one isn't in itself a serious problem.
I'm quite confident that the Y2K problem with nukes won't be meltdown
or other disaster. The problem will be that they will fail safe as
designed, causing an electricity shortage.
The backup failed, the automatic feedwater
(AFW) pumps failed to start when control
line voltage power was transfered to emergency
diesel generator (EDG) circuits, operators had
to detect this condition and manually start the
AFW pumps. The failed circuit, bus 6A, remained
out of service.
Events noted in the reports, as they occurred.
"An automatic reactor trip/turbine trip occurred due
to an overtemperature differential temperature
(OTdT) trip signal."
"Following the trip, 480 VAC bus 6A received an
undervoltage trip signal, causing buses 2A, 3A, 5A,
and 6A to transfer to their associated emergency
diesel generators (EDGs) (22, 21, and 23, respectively)."
"...however, the output breaker for EDG 23 tripped
upon loading to bus 6A, which remains deenergized."
" Operators manually started the turbine driven
auxiliary feedwater pump due to the loss of control
power to one of the motor driven AFW pumps
caused by the loss of bus 6A."
"The licensee is currently troubleshooting bus 6A in
anticipation of restoring power."
"An Unusual Event was declared at 2155 EDT due to
an unplanned loss of greater than 75% of the control
room safety system annunciators for longer than
15 minutes."
" The licensee reported that the annunciators are
currently inoperable, and that additional panel
walkdowns are being performed."
". The annunciators have been restored."
"The previous problem with 480 VAC busses on
Event #36104 has been found to be related to the
loss of the annunciators."
". Further evaluation is ongoing and the licensee
expects to exit the Unusual Event soon."
This event was a control system failure from
start to finish, and they are working to learn what
caused the problem.
How can reports for prior days be found? (A search of the entire site
on the string Power Reactor Event Number: 36104 produced a
batch of results but not that particular report.)
Comments came up as to being x-distance away from nuclear reactors.
What would be considered a safe distance to be from one?
Also, a more specific question-- While I believe I am a fairly good
distance east of any commercial reactor to have what I think would be
a safe distance, and while there is one about 100 miles east of me
that shouldn't be a problem as long as the prevailing westerlies
prevail, what about the educational/campus reactors that dotted
throughout the country? There seem to be a several people on this
thread who are very nuclear savvy-- what potential problems do you
foresee from these type of reactors? (There's one about 20 miles N/
NE...)
As to the person who commented about potassium iodide-- KI is take to
protect the thyroid from absorbing radioactive iodine/iodide. It does
nothing else to protect one from other effects of radiation. The
website at http://www.beeline.ca/find/survival/books/doomsday/ gives
some tips and points out some myths about radioactivity. The scenario
is primarily nuclear war, there, so there may be some differences when
it comes down to reactor meltdowns. I don't know. Just passing that
info along. ...
My husband and I live on a farm approximately 50 miles from Three Mile
Island. After doing extensive research on how nuclear plants operate
and what is needed for a safe shutdown I called TMI months ago and
spoke with its PR man. What he told me confirmed my worst fears.
The plant would not be shutting down in July in order to safely cool
used uranium. It would stick to its planned September power down to
do maintainence and then power up again.
Used uranium rods must be cooled by water pumped over them powered by
electricity that is not generated by the plant. I.E. cooling is
dependent on the grid. If electricity fails for the area where the
plant is located, a generator must be used to pump the water. NERC
has directed plants to check their generators and, of those that have
done it, many have found generators that will not start or run.
If a nuclear plant has a problem that requires shutdown the rods must
be cooled immediately and reliably for 5 months according to the
Uranium Institute.
NERC's board is made up of people employed by the nuclear power
industry. If you want a take on the NRC read the following very long
article. It tells you exactly what went on behind the scenes at TMI
on March 28, 1979.
The last thing the PR man at TMI said to me was: "Our families live
around here. Do you think we would let anything happen to them?"