Waco...Is there NOTHING We Can Do?

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I need some help here. I truly need some advice. Like so much these days, I learned about the recent findings about the Waco incident on this forum. And what I have since discovered has changed my life. Totally.

In 1993, we had recently welcomed out second child into the world. I was sleep deprived, had a toddler as well and could easily be classified as a self-obsessed egomaniac. I recall watching footage from time to time on the evening news about the standoff at the Branch Davidian Complex. I even recall the day of the siege, but, admittedly. it meant little to me at the time. I remember thinking, "My God! What a terrible tragedy!". This feeling lasted for approximatley 30 seconds, until my children started screeching for something. Oh well, on to more pressing issues, such as the dinner dishes.

Over the years, life changed. The kids grew more independent, routines were established, and I got access to the internet. Life was basicaly good, until January of 1999. A friend of mine introuduced me to Y2K. Being the obsessive-compulsive persom that I am, I researched it "ad nauseum". I read Ed's book. Which brought me to this site. Which changed my life.

I am in a delemma right now, as I am sure others are as well. Between Y2K and Waco, I have totally lost faith in my government. And I'm OK with that. It's the overwhelming sense of frustration of not being able to do anything about it that I'm having a problem with.

I watched Mike McNulty's film over the weekend and I feel like a piece of me died. And I feel like the only way to get that peice back is to DO something. Anything. What can I do?

And when I hear people say that there is nothing I can do, I die a little more. I am literally crying as I type these words. WHAT can any of us do? If you have an answer, please tell me, because I feel if I don't do something, I might as well be sitting in those tanks, or manning those machine guns, or...

Sorry for the rant. I'm not used to dealing with these types of emotions.

R.

-- Roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), September 01, 1999

Answers

To the top, in hope of answers...

R.

-- Roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), September 01, 1999.


its ok, dont worry. just let us know who you are so we can keep an eye on you.

y2k is coming and we need to keep an eye on the people who are "coming undone".

dont blow anything up or threaten to kill anyone or act violently, just give us your name so we can watch out for you.

-- friend (friend@blackhelicopter.com), September 01, 1999.


Thanks, Janet. That was so helpful.

-- Roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), September 01, 1999.

Roland: Welcome to the club. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between a nighmare during sleep or while awake.

I don't think there is anything political that can be done. Too many sheeple, too many entrenched power interests, too little time.

The Waco thing, after all is said and done, will be buried just like the people at Waco. A few wrists MAY be slapped. Maybe some, maybe even Freeh or Rhinohaunches (Reno), MAY even lose their jobs. But will the government lose, or even be trimmed in, its ability and willingness to do the same, again? No.

(Pollys and political DGIs and DWGIs: Don't waste time telling us to write to congress, to get out the vote, etc. Doesn't work, hasn't worked. Definition of insanity: "Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.")

The only solutions I can see involve more direct action.
Thomas Jefferson had some ideas about the necessity of revolution every few generations. He would probably say that we're long overdue.
John Ross in the book "Unintended Consequences" (search on amazon.com) has some ideas for more direct action. His scenario covers pretty much just one area, but it could be extended to others.

Notice to pigs -- I'm already on your list from other sources.

-- A (A@AisA.com), September 01, 1999.


Earthlings, please dont make TEOTWAWKI a self-fullfiling prophecy with your deep seated hatred of your government. What exactly is "direct" involvement. Sounds like some of you are going to toss tea in the harbor again, if you get my meaning.

-- martian (martian@mars.com), September 01, 1999.


Roland

It always seems darkest before the dawn. It will, no doubt get darker, but just be patient.

"WHAT can any of us do?" My personal answer to that is to draw close to God with fear and humility before Him, and to pray for His mercy on my nation and my family. God draws close to those who draw close to Him. We will see bad things but good can come out of them. I believe it will come.

George Washington and the other founding fathers believed that God ruled in the affairs of men and nations. I believe it too. These are exciting times. History is in the making. Take heart. Don't despair.

Farmbeet

-- Farmbeet (seekinthelord@troubledtimes.com), September 01, 1999.


See also Martin L. Gross "Call to Revolution" and "End of Sanity". Both are excellent books on these very thoughts.

-- kritter (kritter@adelphia.net), September 01, 1999.

1. stop voting more repubocrats into office.

2. loose the god crap.

-- D E F (eattherich@mailcity.com), September 01, 1999.


I have a suggestion, Roland. Get a life. Quit hanging out with this bunch of doomers. Misery loves company. That's why they are all here. Next year at this time, the Time Bomb 2000 website will be a distant memory. Life will go on, no matter who our government fucks over. Take care of your family, they are all you have! Good luck.

-- (SickofThis@crap.com), September 01, 1999.

Consider finding ways to remove yourself from the system:

How To Live Freer Now

"America is at that awkward stage; it's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -Claire Wolfe

Sincerely,

-- Jim Morris (prism@bevcomm.net), September 01, 1999.



Roland

Go here. You will see that other folks are trying to change things too. We will reach critical mass sooner with your help.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), September 01, 1999.


I just read on Drudge that Reno is really mad and has sent people to sieze the evidence in Texas concerning Waco. What is this? Another major cover up? I must say this really makes me mad. How can they do that legally? This has got to stop. Where is the justice in this? Marcy

-- marcy sawyer (marcia@madnet.net), September 01, 1999.

Tragic? Yes. Wrong? Definitely. What would be worse? Adding your name to the list. . . Anyone who thinks criminal abuse of power at the top grants license for lawlessness to those at the bottom is making a very, very unfortunate mistake. Theory aside, make no mistake. You are not at the top of the current heap. If, because of y2k, whatever, you anticipate using deadly force to defend yourself, learn your state law NOW. There will be an accounting after chaos. Don't be caught on the wrong side of the law. It WILL still be there. The backlash will be bad and made worse for everyone who acts thoughtfully and correctly by those who are reacting rather than acting and planning for all contingencies - including the possibility of your gleuteous maximus being hauled

-- Magnolia (magnooliaa@yahoo.com), September 01, 1999.

Roland,

While I don't have the answer for you, I am glad you posted this thread...your words echo a lot of what I've been experiencing since learning more of what happened at Waco. There are alternating feelings of outrage, fear, and a profound soul-deep sorrow. Yes, I too feel like I have been changed by this and a piece of me has died...that is a good way to put it.

There is always such need to stay emotionally strong, to be prepared as best I can for whatever may be coming next year, while continuing to stay focused on the job that provides for me and mine. But, the Waco revelations are taking a toll. I keep thinking about those children ...the absolute horror and terror they endured in their final days, their final hours...and, yes, I find myself crying. This is unusual for me, too.

I've not watched the Waco film, yet...think I'm afraid of how much deeper the impact might be given real pictures to replace the ones I've been imagining. But, I will watch it...I feel somehow responsible to be a witness, to look the truth, whatever it is, in the eye.

-- RUOK (RUOK@yesiam.com), September 01, 1999.


Roland,

There MAY be something that can be done. What if everyone emails MSNBC or CNN and insists that they show "Waco-Rules of Engagment" on their network. That film does pack an emotion whallop, much more than a stained dress. People find it hard, as you have, to sit by and watch this type of thing go on.

Also, maybe there is an attorney somewhere with brass balls who would bring Janet Reno up on murder charges.

I believe we as a nation, are going to have to get very creative and tough and "IN THEIR FACE" in order to bring down this administration...... Let's not think that there is NOTHING we can do. Kids were murdered. innocent people were burned to death. And the cover-up is starting. THE BIG DIFFERENCE IS THAT FILM. No one can watch it and look at this administration the same again.

-- LindaO. (lindao@hotmail.com), September 02, 1999.



Roland,

I think Jim, and Unc had the best advise. You are not alone.

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), September 02, 1999.


What did we do when Clinton ordered the bombing in Kosovo? Nothing. Where was the protest? Where was the public outcry? Nada. Please don't misunderstand, I have not overlooked the fact that in Waco, human beings, innocent children included lost their lives. But so have others, even more recent. Why wasn't our sense of loss and outrage evident this past spring? I'm just wondering about human nature in general right now, it really does surprise me. I intend no offense to anyone, just trying to get things prioritized after reading these posts.

-- Barb (awaltrip@telepath.com), September 02, 1999.

Barb,

You wrote>>"What did we do when Clinton ordered the bombing in Kosovo? Nothing. Where was the protest? Where was the public outcry?"

I beg to differ. There was massive protest, the media just did not cover it like they covered the wire service stories. During the anti NATO rallies in Washington only CSpan had any coverage at all.

It's only just begun. A is correct, the major outlets of the media are controlled. It's all political now.

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), September 02, 1999.


Yes, R. Wright, that might be a possibility. The reason I mentioned my personal quandry about human nature was that I recalled a bank regulation proposal, actually, that made the news around the same time frame, in March, that got major media coverage because of the enormous amount of attention it had drawn by citizens and bankers as well. CNN carried the story and reported 14,000 irate emails and then I think the final figure for responses was about 225,000 during its public comment period. Just thinking, wasn't it Jefferson who made a remark about eternal vigilance being the price of liberty? Maybe now it's become selective vigilance rather than eternal.

-- Barb (awaltrip@telepath.com), September 02, 1999.

Barb wrote:

...I recalled a bank regulation proposal, actually, that made the news around the same time frame, in March, that got major media coverage because of the enormous amount of attention it had drawn by citizens and bankers as well.

You're probably thinking of "Know Your Customer"...

CNN carried the story and reported 14,000 irate emails and then I think the final figure for responses was about 225,000 during its public comment period. Just thinking, wasn't it Jefferson who made a remark about eternal vigilance being the price of liberty? Maybe now it's become selective vigilance rather than eternal.

Actually there was an online protest site for the Kosovo war. It was at antiwar.com.

I think both the "Know Your Customer" and the "Antiwar" protest sites were offered by the Libertarian Party.

-- Jim Morris (prism@bevcomm.net), September 02, 1999.


From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr near Monterey, California

In these "Wag the Dog" times, don't you have to wonder why these admissions are coming out just now?

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage.neener.autospammers--regrets.greenspun), September 02, 1999.


Roland:

Buy, and train yourself in the maintenance and operation of, a quality assault rifle, and several thousand rounds of ammunition.

What you are begining to perceive is the reason why the founding fathers included the Second Ammendment in the Bill of Rights. They understood that the ONLY reason they were able to defeat the Tyrant was because they were armed and willing to fight for Justice and Freedom. It is the guarantee that protects all of your other Constitutionally recognized rights.

If you cried watching "The Rules of Engagement", wait till you see the sequel. Coming soon.

Godspeed,

-- Pinkrock (aphotonboy@aol.com), September 02, 1999.


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