One of the unanswerable questions that those preparing for Y2K uncertainty are faced with is How long will the disruptions last? We ask this primarily to try and make a good guess at how best to prepare. Some of us have just decided to prep to the max that we prudently can. We do not know if our max will be enough though. Suppose it isnt? The purpose of this thread is to discuss What then?

Assumptions for this discussion:

I think all bets are off if we get into a TEOTWAWKI scenario. The number of individuals who are able to attain the level of preparation and self-reliance needed to survive disruptions of this magnitude is now, and will remain, very small. Therefore, I think the most useful discussion for the majority of us should be focused on something greater than what we prepared for, but less than TEOTWAWKI. A second assumption involves concurrent non-Y2K related disrupting events (war, terrorism, etc). For at least the initial parts of the discussion, assume this is not a factor. This will serve to try and keep the focus on Y2K-related disruptions. In other words, one catastrophe at a time please, at least to start with.

Two Cents:

Can we think ahead about What then?, and in so doing help identify what options might exist to deal with this? To some extent I think this is possible. The longer that serious problems last, the greater numbers of people that will be faced with the challenge of trying to resolve how to deal with their preparations not being enough. If the majority of the 270 million Americans prepare for the three days to one week period (assuming there is enough existing supply for this level of demand), a disruption of even two weeks will put some percentage of those people at varying degrees of higher risk. A disruption period of a month could be orders of magnitude worse. For those of us that are preparing as best we can, based on our research, expectations, and resources, we have to at least be aware of the possibility that our best may also fall short.

There will probably be as many different answers to this as there are individuals, with our level of self-reliance being a key factor. Yet I think it is possible for some common ground to be established. There are similar variables to consider such as our location, flexibility and adaptability, relationship with neighbors and the community, and our knowledge and skills. A good contingency plan, which includes the potential to bug out to a secondary, provisioned location, is one example of something specific that can be thought about in advance. It is important to realize though that even if we have thought this through, there still are no guarantees that we will be able to follow up with implementation, since related issues beyond our control may come into play (martial law, for example). Generally speaking, the less our self-reliance, the more that a good relationship with others will become necessary to get through any rough spots.

Disruptions outlasting preps - have you thought about this too?

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), August 26, 1999

Answers

"If disruptions outlast our preparations, what then?"

That's easy. We die. I figured that out early last year.

-- chaos doesn't sound (like@much.fun), August 26, 1999.

Punt.

-- Mike Lang (webflier@erols.com), August 26, 1999.

You can bet a black market would spring up quickly and money would "talk".

Most certainly one would cut back on usage if shortages were ongoing. Perhaps you could survive longer if med usage was cut by 50%. Food and meds would be of greatest concern and barter would be prevelant.

This nagging concern for ....how much is enough?.....keeps me preparing and rationilizing my spending.

-- rb (ronbanks_2000@yahoo.com), August 26, 1999.

Err, isn't part of your preps the necessay items to supply your own food, water and shelter if we can't restart? Ya know, seeds, gardening tools, tools for a low tech trade and books on the subject, stuff for hunting? That kind of stuff?

keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), August 26, 1999.

We're dead.

-- cody (cody@y2ksurvive.com), August 26, 1999.

Find a recently-widowed doomerette and move in?

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), August 26, 1999.

After TOETWAWKI people at some point we'll have to start living off whatever they hunt, gather, or grow. Some might be able to make a living by trading special skills, scavenge from the ruins, or whatever stuff they can slap together.

-- SC Man (csm@smoke.com), August 26, 1999.

Perhaps I was not clear. I wrote as an assumption that the scenario was NOT TEOTWAWKI, but something less, that the level of your preps do not cover.

After thinking about it, you may have still come to the conclusion that its Game Over, and we die. For those who have considered this and come up with a different conclusion, what do you think about What Then?

Ron: The "How much is enough" question is another important one that relates to this subject. You aren't the only one asking and rationalizing. The central question of this post is really a follow- up to it in that it assumes not enough prep was done. By preparing to the max, we try and mitigate the chances of ever having to be in the unenviable position of having to ask the "What Then" question later.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), August 26, 1999.

You might die, but I won't. I'll head for my pristine lake on 100 acres in the north woods. Lots of fish and game. YUM!

-- anti-chainsaw (tree@hugger.com), August 26, 1999.

Hey Rob,

I'm ready. I could build a 20 foot wall around my property and never have to leave again. I will have food, water, shelter and solar electricity until I die if its needed. It only cost me about $30,000.00 to achieve self suffiencency plus the property of course.

-- nospam (nospam@spam.spam), August 26, 1999.

i live in farm country, there will be plenty of food here, lots of chickens, pigs, beef cattle, fields to grow food in. and people that know how to make it happen. did i mention the orchards and the vinyards.

-- big man (fatman@lotsafood.com), August 26, 1999.

Rob, it's a question I hope won't arise for anyone I know. But I know it will. We who have internet access are NOT representative of the general public. Those who live below the poverty line (a large percentage of the populace) do not have (by and large) the financial resourses to prepare for anything more than a three day storm (if they have that). If they started early enough, they could maybe stretch their preps to a month - two months by cutting out all but life saving necessities. I'm talking here about the working poor = those earning minimum wage or less. How do they prepare for a recession or depression, especially one in which gov't assistance is negligible or nonexistant? They depend on family and friends with more resources and generous hearts - I think I'd better go get some more rice.

-- T the C (tricia_canuck@hotmail.com), August 26, 1999.

If it is not TEOTWAWKI and if it's only a 3-week disruption, many will die within 1 week such as the elderly and small children due to a lack of food, water and medication. We have to assume that millions are not prepared. I would imagine most people have at least 3-4 days of food in their house but it's the panic that will kill most people. So, if I assume that my neighbors can last 4 days then start panicking for 3 more days with no food or water, they will be history after 10 days. There still may be food in the house but water will be the determining factor of their survivial. I figure after their departure from this earth, I will help myself to their stuff but take only what will keep my life going. As far as barter goes, I won't barter until 3 months into survival and that includes accepting money, gold, or exchange of anything. Life is fragile and the weakest will drop like flies. Many will kill themselves out of fear because they know the end will be death. Should I help my neighbors? I have tried to help them by informing them 1-1/2 years ago. None were receptive, they avoid me, so there's nothing more for me to say or do for them. Their irresponsibility does not become my responsibility. As far as running out of supplies, if you truly are into suriving this, too much is not enough. You also have to know the basics of gardening, botany, hunting, and self-defense, without these skills your chances of suriving are slim next to none.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 26, 1999.

Rob

I have six months food set aside for my 2 adult 3 children ( 10,7,3 ) family. I have a broken cistern, only holds about 500 gallons.I have seed and could begin harvesting some crops in March and build up through the summer. We have a large and prolific rabbit population around and I've already caught with a net and released, good practice for breeding.

That's it beyond that watch out!

-- Johnny (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), August 26, 1999.

bardou is on target. In fact, the realistic question that should be asked is: What are you going to do when Y2K disruptions outlasts their preparations?

This depends on a lot of things. Primarily location, plus the attributes stated by bardou.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), August 26, 1999.

If a new government arises or the Chinese conquer America, the survivors could be forced into slavery.

Being a slave, working hard all day, earning rations to feed oneself and one's family, being brainwashed with the new mandatory rules --- well, would it be worth the price to live?

Who would accept such servitude?

Who would rather go down fighting?

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), August 26, 1999.

With or without a 3 to 7 day storage plan it will only take a very few days for the average family in the US to be in trouble. If I am mostly selfish with my stash and can protect it, I can survive for a year. The behavior of the masses will become an instant education regarding what happens when the "preps" are gone. There will be begging, suicides and anarchy. If I were to start trying to help my fellow man (read grasshoppers) then that would be a personal death wish.

So the scenario is that I have prepared, but not enough, and the situation is bad (a 9 and I prepared for a 7). I guess it gets Darwinian and it becomes "dog eat dog"...survival of the fittest...natural selection. (All Kansas school children please skip the above).

If I have not prepared enough and we have a soylent green economy then I have certainly entered the end of the world as I know it. Some of us think about this very unplesant Y2k outcome but we don't talk or write much about it because the mind-set to cope gets gruesome.

So if the preps are gone and the stores are empty then gather round folks cause it is infomagictime. And that is another story for another time/thread.

-- tc (trashcan-man@webtv.net), August 26, 1999.

I am ready to maintain the creature comforts for three months. I am also ready to survive as long as need be. I must tell you, it was much easier, and cheaper, to do the preps on the as long as need be part. It's not hard to get ready to live like a caveman.

-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), August 26, 1999.

We went to work for an elderly couple today. Lady in a wheelchair, had strokes; husband frail and fragile too. Both 85, living in a big old house by themselves. Very nice people. Totally clueless about Y2K (and we didn't say a word). The man was a Dr, helped many people, had a good life; wife a nurse, same. They're barely able to get thru each day using their frig and microwave meals. Their son shops for them. They're content and making do, struggling with each day as it comes. One week without the infrastructure will kill these people for sure. Once they realize what has happened, they will simply lay in bed until the end comes.

Our work is primarily hospice. But we have a long history of living-in for the frail elderly. If you all only knew how many households are hanging by a thread, with one or two elders just getting by, you would be stunned.

A 3-7 day "storm" will totally outlast and devastate the "preparations" that millions of households are capable of making. Winter. Lord, when we think of all the elderly people alone ... it is truly inconceivable how TPTB can be so cold-blooded.

If it goes down for 2 weeks or longer, all history books hereon will devote chapters to Y2K. The die-off will be horrific. The mental/emotional/psychological effects will take generations to wear off.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 26, 1999.

If you think it is going to last longer than your preps are, the first thing you can do is cut what you are doing in 1/2. If you started out with 3 months, at the end of the 1st month, it is my guess that we will know a whole lot more about how things are going. At that point I would start cutting back on rations. Unless it is a 10, I am guessing that even rural communities would start getting some relief at least as far as staples go within a month as supplied by Uncle Sam. Go get them- even if you still have supplies. Don't ever turn down rationed food - ya never know.

Also a good idea to have seeds etc. even if you only have a back yard to dig up and plant - you can always replant the lawn. For apartment dwellers, never turn down rationed food and good luck. For some of you apartment people, seeds wouldn't be a bad idea either. If worse comes to worse, there are usually acres of parks and you have neighbors all of whom can share the work and the perimeter walks for protecting their share of what you grow.

-- Valkyrie (anon@please.net), August 26, 1999.

I have seen "Alive" twice. That soccer team from Chile survived for a long time munching on butt jerky donated by "former" passengers. Guess that's my plan B if nothing grows...

-- Chuck.L (haha@haha.com), August 26, 1999.

What would I do? Having read Tom Brown's Guide to Wilderness Survival, I plan on bugging out to the middle of the national forest and eating acorns, grubs, grass seeds, cattails, roots, shoots, bark, chicken of the forest, etc. No, that's the option of last resort.

Probably I'd first bug out to an area where there's more food. How would I know where the food was? Short wave radio of course. This bugout would be done on bicycle if gasoline was not available.

If bugout is not an option, I'd find a nice off-the-route plot of land and squat there to grow potatoes and beans.

These are all things I would attempt. But most likely I would simply die. My own preparations ought to last a few months. But with friends and neighbors banging at the door, this supply goes down to a couple weeks. Don't think that I'd be very adept at wilderness survival when it's still winter, but it's worth a try.

Having said that, I doubt it will ever come to that with all the grain and soybeans bursting from the silos, in vast excess of what any of us (except for livestock) need for several years.

-- coprolith (coprolith@rocketship.com), August 26, 1999.

You need to prepare for as long as you can, not as long as you "think it will last," unless you like gambling with your life. If you prepped for 3 months, but you can prep for more, do it. If you can prep for a year, do it. 2 years, do it. Whatever you can scrounge up should be used for preparation. Every extra day of preparations you have increases your chances of survival that much longer and helps to make this question (hopefully) irrelevant. At the very least, you won't ever say to yourself, "I wish I had prepped for a longer outage," because you'll know that you couldn't have even if you wanted to.

This is the simple truth that most people don't realize about preparation. When the disruption has taken about half of your preps, it's time to think about alternative sources - scavenging, hunting, farming, whatever it takes. Be prepared for when your preps run out. By the time they do, you should have a plan in place. If you don't, then it's the end.

-- (its@coming.soon), August 26, 1999.

Thanks to all of you that provided a serious response to what I consider to be a serious question. So many excellent points were made. I do not have the time to respond to each of you individually, as was my style on the forum for a long time, and as I would like and feel you deserve. A coulple points...

Bardou: You wrote  if you truly are into surviving this, too much is not enough. You also have to know the basics of gardening, botany, hunting, and self-defense, without these skills your chances of surviving are slim next to none. I agree. That is what I was alluding to with the specific reference to skills and knowledge. On a personal basis, over a year and a half ago I began filling in the gaps that I had and am now comfortable in these and some other areas. Coming from a family that hunts and fishes and gardens, the remaining gaps were not overwhelming to tackle. I had a good head start in other words.

Jack: You wrote that the realistic question was: What are you going to do when Y2K disruptions outlasts their preparations. When I was writing the original post this did occur to me, and I thought that someone would bring it up. Thanks. A whole discussion could ensue just on the ramifications of trying to answer this. My opinions on this are in the minority on this forum, and are contained on a thread in the MISC. section of the archives called Is Y2K activism dead? There have been many who have posted about this - you know, the they wont listen but they will remember posts. It remains an interesting and realistic question, which none of us hope to have to ask ourselves for real, but just as with the central question to this thread, it is just as vexing and unpleasant. And real.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), August 26, 1999.

Certainly have thought of it, and very early on in my Y2k awareness scheme. Even if this is only a time of economic disruption, then being able to supply most of our food (all if necessary) is a key to financial help...so SUSTAINABILITY has been a key part of my preps. Garden, goats and other critters, and the books and learning to do it have been even more important to me than the actual food and other preps, tho I plan to have enough to get thru 6 months at least partially in canned goods. Have done things like planted part of my lawn area in oats (didnt winter kill here last year to my surprise) so oats and wheat will get planted this fall- if nothing much happens, then fescue goes in in the spring. And even tho we dont want to mention the other potential disasters, being in the footprint of 3 nuke plants has made me consider a root celler to be my big fall project-for food storage,keeping cool supplies that the Carolina heat would damage, a place to sleep if its too hot "up top" with no A/C, a tornado shelter and the hopefully never to be considered other shelter....

-- LauraA (Laadedah@aol.com), August 26, 1999.

My wife and I are prepped for three months comfortable living, and year on what we call "the third world diet".

After three months, the warmer weather will be here. We plan on setting about to see what the new world looks like. If it's hostile, I guess we'll die. If there's anyone with a shred of sanity left, we'll work with them, to rebuild. We are social creatures, and nothing else makes sense to us.

Besides, We're not as young as we once were, and I've got some health problems (heart-related) that would keep me from being much of a wilderness type. It doesn't slow me down that much, from day to day, but I'm afraid I'm a dedicated "townie", from here on out. I have a wide variety of useful skills, and I'm good at figuring out work-arounds. My wife is a leader type, with good organizational skills. If those things are valued, we should do okay. If not, hey, it's fun up to this point and nobody lives forever.

This well could be the end, and I know I'm not going to spend the next 4 months obsessing about death, and biting my nails. What a waste. There's still a few things left, I'd like to do.

Of course, I guess I'm violating the spirit of what Rob was asking, since three straight months of no power, no food, no water does pretty much bring us to TEOTWAWKI, doesn't it? If it's what I call the "Wacamole" scenario (You know, like the Wacamole game), where things keep popping up and down - more a case of unreliability, as opposed to nonexistence - then we could probably stretch the stores to a year. We're pretty flexible individuals, if we have a year to suss it out, we'll figure out something.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), August 26, 1999.

I would like to interject one more comment. Do not think that the poor will be the first to die. Because they are poor, they know how to survive. They have survived poverty while we are enjoying prosperity. They know what it is like to scrap the bottom of the barrel while we who are prosperous could not imagine scraping the bottom of the barrel. We all must be willing to do it if we want to live, and I want to live because I want to see what happens in the end.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 26, 1999.

There's a great bunch of people here. I hope everyone manages to eke their way through--hell, even thrive. My little group--three adults and one cat--will probably have enough food for five or six months, but only water for a little more than two, so I think we'd be much better off if the faucets gave us something even dirty water that we could filter.

But I agree with many who posted here, death is a possibility. It happens. The species continues. Probably even we--whoever that "we" might be--continue.

Ashton and Leska mention the elderly. It's a terrible prospect. I have friends who are much older and while I mention Y2K to them, I sort of think they could never prepare enough to muddle through.

One of the most difficult parts of all this will be seeing the suffering. It's just going to be way too hard.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), August 26, 1999.

Strength is in numbers.

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), August 27, 1999.

Many moons ago Tom Benjamin, somewhere in British Columbia, considered this eventuality, and his reflections appear in T om's Take. Anyone not yet familiar with this essay should look it over.

Given the unknowns still in the mix, what can anyone say? You do as much as you think you'll need, or as much as you can. If that turns out not to be enough, go to Plan B. That will be different for everyone.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), August 27, 1999.

My one-eyed 90+ year old licensed-to-drive neighbor says "I have lived a good life, it doesn't matter if my life should end today or tomorrow, what ever will be will be."

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 27, 1999.

Tom

I will have to second that recommendation. Thanks for that links, didn't know that Nick scooped it up.

It is suprising that Tom B. has not been here, or at least with his name.

Rob

Great question. As with much of Y2K preps location has everything to do with an individuals needs and available resources. I would go back fishing. Fish and bannock will keep you alive :o)

-- Brian (imager@home.com), August 27, 1999.

Brian: How many people would even know what it takes to catch a fish or even have the necessary equipment to do so? If your trapped in a metropolitan area you won't be fishing for anything. I live in a rural area and have fished lakes and streams you can only get to with 4-wheel drive. These lakes and streams have been fished out for many years and if you are lucky to catch anything, it isn't worth keeping. Lake Davis near Quincy, CA, has been poisoned by the Dept. of Fish and Game because the Northern Pike has threatened the ecology of the lake. Hundreds of locals had to drink the water from the polluted Lake Davis, and the Dept of Fish and Game has failed to eradicate the deadly Pike from the lake. If you think your going to live on fish and game in the State of California, think again because it just isn't here and I believe this may be true of other states as well.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 27, 1999.

Diane and i talked last night (I think, the days run together when you work a screwy shift) and we came to an agreement that we would probably see a 20 - 50% die-off from this. I guess that makes us doomers. I'm STILL not sure how either of us gets to there from 5 or 6, but we seem to have. This was in the context of my comment that I ride through the city, and go by SNF's (PC for nursing homes) and KNOW that if it goes past a couple days there are going to be a LOT of people who do NOT survive. (You have to know what it is like inside.)

Anyway enough of the depression, and on to the question. We are in process to be prepared for 6 - 9 months of dislocation, with the hopes of being able to stretch this if the dislocations aren't total. We would LIKE to be able to go to the SECOND harvest but I just don't see getting that far by Dec. HOPEFULLY, (if I can find enough closet space and we can find enough shelving) we will be completed by the end of Sept. or Mid Oct. Inderstand, though, that the conestoga is ALREADY packed with many of the TOOLS we will need if things are somewhat more permanent. the only things missing are the consumables, and that is what we are working on.

If it goes longer than what we have in the pantry, and we don't have the ability to do ANY foraging, then things would be fairly grim. Particularly as neither Mrs Driver nor I can cut our rations very much, without running into the hypoglycemia- based emotional rollercoaster, which would have the possibility of killing either or both of us, either directly or contributorily.

Got more pantry shelves and canning jars?
Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), August 27, 1999.

bardou

I live in British Columbia by the ocean and Rob asked if I had thought about it. My choice has always been to live by water and I was a fisherman. You may not be aware of my other survival recommendations.

Having never spent much time in the States (and never want to) my opinion on the situation would just be a guess. But a good guess is growing food or fishing for food. Is there any other way?

-- Brian (imager@home.com), August 27, 1999.

If your preps don't include some seeds, preferably non-hybrid, you're a fool and I won't shed a tear for you. This is too obvious. Last Christmas, my wife went to the sporting goods store and asked the most knowledgeable salesman, "If you were going to go fishing for a year, in all types of conditions and couldn't get back to this store for anything, what would you want to take?" Best present I ever received...

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), August 27, 1999.

It's facinating how many are willing to die but so few are willing to kill,fine,they'll die.The fit will survive by being the strongest.In a survival situation that means all kind of unpleasant things that in todays touchy-feely-oprah-just-pretend-that-nothing-icky-ever-happens world.Like killing,looting,and stealing.Who will be most qualified to be this type of terrible,hard,human predator?why it's you,of course!while others are growing weak,you must train,while your food lasts,so that you might better unleash yourself upon the world of chaos.If the world and the world's rules change we must change with it.It matters not if you like this type of reasoning,your children's survival depends on it.Our children will not be weak and filled sentimentality like us,they will be hard,and they will understand a fundemental truth of survival;my life is more important than yours.If you will survive,then you must make the paradigm-shift to this type of survival-selfishness,alone or as a group.Of course this is ONLY if Y2K is a gary north scenario,millions have died,the messiah didn't bother to show up,your food ran out a week ago,and you're eating tree bark.We are the softest people with most leisure in history,the death toll will be terrible.Who will bury the heaps of rotting diseased corpses?death.death.death.All too soon we shall all know it's stench in our nostrils.Once we bury a few loved ones,our attitudes will change.Stay strong,prepair.

-- apokoliptik (apokoliptik@large.com), August 27, 1999.

For any of you who haven't prepared to live off the land and sustain yourselves independently, be alert to the sound of, "Clip-Clop-Bang, Clip-Clop-Bang". It will be an Amish drive-by shooting.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 27, 1999.

BWA-HA-HA-HA(SNORT)HA-HA-HA-HA!

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 27, 1999.

Brian: If you are lucky enough to live by the ocean, there's probably plenty of sea life to sustain you IF you know what to eat. Apokoliptik is right on with his ideas on survival. I'll worry about food and water after 2 years, it's the roving gangs and disease that will be the problem. Growing your own food is an option ONLY if you have access to water. If the water treatment plants are down and your not lucky enough to live near a water source, where are you going to get water to grow your food? It's back to the water thing again, it's the most important item on the list.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 27, 1999.

apokoliptik,

"It's facinating how many are willing to die but so few are willing to kill ..."

It's amazing how short-sighted a person would be if they didn't stop and think about the fact that earth life is, what, 50-100 years, flies by, but the CONSEQUENCES of earth actions last unto Eternity.

It's called karma -- cause 'n effect, sow 'n reap -- every thought, deed, ripple, effect recorded forever in the Akashic Record. Now look at those earth choices VERY closely.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 27, 1999.

samsara,and karmic continuation are best overcome through the mind and the will.The question is not will worldy life and the terrible deeds of worldly living throw the dust of ignorance into our eyes,blinding us to Truth and cause rebirth.Of course it will,we're not discussing spiritual life or renunciation of worldly life.We're discussing survival,and what survival may necessitate.Like it or not,man is the animal that kills.The question is,if your supplies run out in a gary north "10" scenario,where all order and law have fallen away leaving pain,confusion,suffering,disease,and disorder,will you kill for you and yours?If not,history and Darwin what will most likely become of you.If the world changes,and you wish to remain in it,then you must change with it.Leaving the world is always an option,although except for very advanced people,like Thich Nhat Hahn's diciples in Viet Nam,Suicide also leaves a karmic stain of violence.Decide well.

-- Apokoliptik (Apokoliptik@large.com), August 27, 1999.

bardou, whatever happened to your neighbor's missing eye?

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), August 27, 1999.

Randolph: He's 90+ years old, had surgery on his eye and now he's in worse shape than before. He ran a stop sign and hit another vehicle and both cars are history. I have offered to help but have been declined. I can understand people wanting their independence. So, I just steer clear of him and who ever he kills or injuries...OH WEEEELLL!

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 28, 1999.

Rob, last month I finally picked up the book "Lucifer's Hammer" that had been mentioned here several times, and read it. Although this is an an example of post-apocalyptic aftermath, it nevertheless made me re-assess my view of what life might be like after a 10. What's more, it helped me work backward in a sense and re-assess what life would be like at a 9, 8, 7, etc.

What I came out of with this book is the ultimate importance of good organization, planning, and community support. A loner anti-social attitude is NOT an asset in any post Y2K number on the scale. The book is really a good read. I recommend it to everyone, if only for the tips you might pick up that you didn't think of.

-- Chris (%$^&^@pond.com), August 28, 1999.

Hi Chris. I jusr read your post and my jaw dropped! You see, I have spent most of the night writing up a post that deals with relating two books, Ishmael and Spiritwalker, to putting Humpty Dumpty back together again. When I read what you wrote it kind of tied things up in a concise way that I had been finding elusive. Maybe it's because I am yawning and tired now. If you get a chance, take a look at that forum later since I plan on posting it there later this morning and maybe you will see what I mean about your post being a syncronicity. I very much enjoyed Lucifer's Hammer and also read it with my Y2K glasses on. Thanks again for your post, see you at the FRL!

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), August 28, 1999.

When you run out of supplies you go to big fat farm guys house because i live in farm country, there will be plenty of food here, lots of chickens, pigs, beef cattle, fields to grow food in. and people that know how to make it happen. did i mention the orchards and the vinyards.

If the big fat gut thinks he is safe, think again. Strength in numbers will be the key.

-- y2k dave (xsdaa111@hotmail.com), August 28, 1999.

I am assuming I will run out of preps before the supply lines are back up. I am expecting a huge toll in the population within the first 3 months (or weeks). Then I expect people to continue to die for months. As much from the shock and grief as any real threat to their physical safety. I only need my preps to get me through that ghastly phase. After that we will rebuild from what the land can sustain. I have learned what is edible in the local flora and am making sure I have the tools I will need to harvest and prepare those natural foods.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), August 28, 1999.

clip-clop-bang, clip-clop-bang.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 28, 1999.