Question for Law Enforcement/Military Professionals

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

More than one earlier post has evolved into hostilities between "civilians" and "professionals" involved with law enforcement etc. For example, I was told by one cop to join the police force if I didn't like abuses of power. I pointed out that at 41, I am unlikely to begin a career in law enforcement. Instead of haranguing back and forth, why not advise us? What if a cop had a loved one who was maimed or killed by medical negligent malpractice, and all the other doctors and related medical staff lied to cover it up? If a doctor posting told him to "quit griping, go to medical school and do it yourself"... that would be unrealistic and not helpful. He would be construed (rightly so) as a doctor with an Attitude. So, since we are faced with possible increasing social chaos and increased crime, how about some constructive and realistic advice from those out there who are cops/soldiers etc. What do suggest we do if things are getting a little crazy because of Y2K, and some cop(s) are abusing their power and ignoring the law? Soldiers? Any advice as to the best way to relate to the military in the event of martial law? Thanks to all who take the time to respond to this.

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), August 24, 1999

Answers

Drop pants. Bend over. Say "thank you sir, may I have another?"

-- A (A@AisA.com), August 24, 1999.

Or consider scenarios in book "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross (See Amazon.com for description and reviews.)

-- A (A@AisA.com), August 24, 1999.

Im not a cop or a military person, but being one who has emerst himself into the complexitys of Y2k, I have thought about this very interaction. One would have to if they were truly trying to prepare for every possible contengency. We may have different clothing on at any given time, theres are of authority, mine are not. But that still does not change the fact of our collective humanity. If things get bad enuff so that the boys in blue + green start calling the shots, there decision making better be right-on. If it makes sence, no problem. If it does not make sence, Im not doing it, and last but not least if it is obviously wrong and to there bennifit only, like screw the civilians, take what you can, then they will have a big problem with little old me. not my food--not my money--not my wife--not my guns...---...

-- Les (yoyo@tolate.com), August 24, 1999.

A@AisA.com - saw this on the CBS news last night
When Police Are Arms Dealers
and check out this paragraph..........

That licensed weapons dealer in Idaho also promotes, as a "must read," a new novel in which the hero advocates the execution of police officers who enforce gun-control laws.

Guess what book (and garish dust cover) they showed a close up of??? You guessed it, Unintended Consequences......

I thought it was an unfair shot at the book, I enjoyed the book a great deal, but it doesn't mean that I advocate killing BATF agents....

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), August 24, 1999.


I suppose that, if martial law comes to pass, many of us should be aware of this issue. IMO the vast majority of Guardsmen, police and military in assistance to civil authorities will do their duty and help out in any way possible.

I suggest that an understanding of the orders and stress that these people will be under is essential. I expect most will think that: "If you are not part of the solution you must be part of the problem." To put it more elegeantly, there may two forces at work - Social Cohesion vs. Social Chaos. I for one will be working to promote and maintain Social Cohesion. One possibility is to work in groups - church groups, school groups, neighbor hood watch groups etc. Get involved in Community Preparedness, Response and Recovery work.

The American Red Cross will be active in the event of an emergency. One way to get started is to call your local Red Cross and inquire about safety, first aid, CPR, and other training that they offer.

Our church will soon vote on an agreement with the Red Cross to offer our facillity as an Emergency Disaster Shelter if the need arises. If martial law occurs, I suspect we will offer the guardsmen a respite of warmth, shelter and stability during what could be a prolonged and stressful period.

Now is a good time to join a supportive church group if you are not part of one already.

-- Bill P (porterwn@one.net), August 24, 1999.



Speaking on behalf of my better half, officers today receive very little respect. They put their lives on the line for people daily (I lost a dear friend of ours killed in the line of duty just last year) and in return, they are hated.

He'll be working out there, in that insanity, those first few weeks of the new year. We've already discussed that. He's GI 100%, but theres still a moral obligation inside of him to try and help others. However, if I feel threatened here in any way, even though I am armed, he'll be right back here for me.

-- kritter (kritter@adelphia.net), August 24, 1999.


Do not rely on a group. The ultimate responsibility for one's safety and security lies with each of us. To help each other, fine. To assist someone in need, fine. But prepare, plan, and act for your family. Do not rely on a group to care for your family.

-- enough is (enough@enough.com), August 24, 1999.

Enough is,

Please elaborate.

Why do you say "Do not rely on a group".

Even the earliest hunters and gatherers relied on a group - the tribe. Not everyone can be a specialist in everything.

-- Bill P (porterwn@one.net), August 24, 1999.


If it goes to Martial Law, keep your head down! Soldiers will do what they're told to do - literally. In a world gone mad, a soldier's orders may be the only thing he has to hold on to. "Sergeant, take your squad and secure the food distribution point at First and Main." "Yes, Sir!" replies the sergeant, relieved to finally have something tangible that he can do to bring some sanity to his corner of the world. What does "secure" mean? Set up defensive positions with automatic weapons, establish a civilian check point so only authorized personnel can get past his position to the food distribution point, perform a reconnaissance of surrounding buildings to make sure there are no "unfriendlies" around, establish communications with his higher headquarters, and settle in to protect the distribution of food on "his" street corner.

What does this mean for the rest of us? First, as long as we don't threaten him, he won't shoot at us. That's the bottom line. If he sees someone come near with a firearm of any kind, he's likely to try and disarm that person and, if that fails, to shoot him down before he can pose a threat to the squad. Soldiers aren't trained like police to hold their fire in stressful situations, they're trained to bring overwhelming combat power to bear on the fight and end it quickly.

So we're back to my first sentence. Keep your head down. Don't draw attention to your self, your house, your neighborhood if you can help it. If you get into a gunfight with bandits or looters and win, hide the evidence as soon as possible before the soldiers show up. If you're out during a martial law period, don't take weapons, or keep them well concealed. Better yet, try like HELL to avoid any situation where you can be caught and detained by soldiers; not because they're cruel and will torture you (American soldiers aren't trained that way, despite anything you've read or heard), but rather that they'll have very little sympathy during a period of high tension and will probably have very little lee-way in what they can do with you. You'll probably spend some time in a stockade before you can go about your business again. It's aggravation you don't need. Your best bet? Get the hell out of the city. Police and the Armed Forces will concentrate on the cities and there won't be enough of them to cover the country-side. You'll have far greater freedom of movement outside of the city limits.

Who am I? Just an old Joe who's been on "Peace Keeping" operations and has seen this stuff first hand. You think Haiti and Mogadishu couldn't happen here? Don't bet on it.

-- Moe (hunterX@rocket.com), August 24, 1999.


What I got out of those Pentagon Papers that Lord offered is the military is Keen on readiness not martialing the cities. They are not going to sacrifice the readiness of a base except in extreme life and death situations.

The police are outnumbered maybe 1 to 10,000? They are not going to be able to enforce martial law any better than I can. Don't worry about this.

-- not an anarchist (no @no.com), August 24, 1999.



Personally, I have high regard for LEO's who perform their duties according to the Constitution. I will cooperate with them at every turn. And that includes police, NG, Army, FBI, etc.

I will NOT allow theft of my property or false imprisonment under color of authority. That's an entirely different situation, and I'll resist as much as I'm able.

-- dENNIS (DJOLSON@PRESSENTER.COM), August 24, 1999.


I've been a cop and a soldier. I was going to give you a big long lecture but Moe beat me to it. Take the advice. Sit down and shutup. They will have more than enough to do. Just stay off their radar.

-- DOC (Hoping-for@the.best), August 24, 1999.

Response to: Bill P...re: offering support through church group.

While I deeply respect your humanitarian objectives and kind- hearted spirit of cooperation, I must say that, in my opinion, you are setting up to be slaughtered. Do you honestly believe that the Feds will blindly cooperate with you? Hell No! Those of you not shot and killed on the spot will be incarcerated...your supplies will be confiscated and your lives (as such) will be over.

Evasion and resistance will take you a lot farther than serving coffee and donuts to the fascist bastards.

I regret the development of such circumstances deeply, but it is looking more and more likely that future developments will prove out in exactly this manner.

I wish you the best of luck...you and your group are going to need it.

-- Irving (Irving@privacy.net), August 24, 1999.


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