GPS????

LINK

-LOST

-- Lost Boy (mycompass@doesntwork.com), August 24, 1999

Answers

It's called dysfunctional navigational computer control caused by recent GPS rollover. Can't wait to see what happens when military equipment is used in our next confrontation.

-- @ (@@@.@), August 24, 1999.

Check out the chunk of the bow that got chewed up:

pic

-- @ (@@@.@), August 24, 1999.

-- pic? (maybe@it'll.show), August 24, 1999.

bold off

-- html challenged (but le@rnin'. fast), August 24, 1999.

bold off

-- Amy Leone (leoneamy@aol.com), August 24, 1999.

..

-- try again (pic?@appear.?), August 24, 1999.

well, that was fun...

Ship kind of looks like Jaws : )

How in the heck could that happen? C'mon!!! Technology screwed up.

Did they stop and exchange insurance info?

Mike

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-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), August 24, 1999.

Don't hold your breath Amy, if it was indeed caused by GPS malfunction, it will never be admitted by the authorities.

How often do accidents like these happen? Would be nice to have a frame of reference, such as the one we have for the refinery/plant explosions.

-- Chris (%$^&^@pond.com), August 24, 1999.

Chris,

that's my reading too, if you go to the original story it states specifically when the Cruise ship went into service...

1992

If my memory is correct based upon all the recent info shared here then this is before updated GPS receivers were being implemented.

It will never become public.

Mike

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-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), August 24, 1999.

scheduling. when the GPS rolled over, schedules telling which ships to be at what segments of which ports on what day at what time maybe didn't get updated, and they didn't bother to check whether another ship was already in their parking spot, or, like the Valdez, it only takes 1 1/5 captains to wreck a ship.

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), August 24, 1999.

I'm surprised that neither ship's RADAR "saw" the other ship. Could be GPS related, but even with a GPS failure this is gross negligence.

-- Jim (x@x.x), August 24, 1999.

Duhhh...

Compasses, maps, celestial readings, radio beacons, GPS etc. are used for navigation.

Radar and eyesight are used for collision avoidance.

"GPS????" No!!!!

-- PNG (Peter Gauthier) (png@gol.com), August 24, 1999.

rofl Peter!

strange, isn't it? Two ships...both with lots of crew, one with lots of passengers... you would think that SOMEONE would start yelling TURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

do ships have autopilot?

something broke down...and with all the people that could have seen this comming I wonder if it was something deeper, as in a broken part. In the end, though, I'm clueless.

The weather didn't play a part, as stated. So that rules that out.

Mike

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-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), August 24, 1999.

Perhaps someone did see something, but thought to themself, "Hey, the ones in charge know what they are doing" I mean after all, why yell "Watch Out!!!" and end up looking foolish? : )

-- Traci (lostinoz32@hotmail.com), August 24, 1999.

PNG,

Duhhh is right. When a cruise ship of that size is moving along at 20 or 30 knots it takes miles to stop or turn, whether or not they can see the approaching collision. It was dark out and probably way too late before they spotted the other ship, especially when most of the crew were probably hanging out at the bar, letting the computers control the course. This is what happens a crew relies on computers that they have no doubt been assured would function properly, but something that was overlooked has obviously malfunctioned. So duuuhh to you!

-- @ (@@@.@), August 25, 1999.

The Andrea Doria and Stockholm collided (1956?) at night, I think it was clear. Both ships saw the other on their radar, well in advance. One or both apparently mis-guessed which way the other was going. No GPS, just bad seamanship.

No reason to blame GPS for this collision, far as I can see.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), August 25, 1999.

Yes, present technology can be equated to 1956...duh.

That kinda speaks volumes huh? How often has this happened in the last 43 years?

There are a lot of similarities between this accident and the Andrea Doria and Stockholm. And, just like that accident, these ships didn't "broadside" each other, they "t-boned" each other. The picture is very good evidence of that. Look at the bow of the liner in this accident.

Then go here...

http://librar y.advanced.org/17297/andrea_home.htm

Pretty interesting how similar this is -- except that the Andrea Doria was surrounded by a fog bank. The weather was clear as stated in the article regarding this incident.

Read the following article...containers fell over from the cargo ship onto the bow of the cruiseliner.

Neither of these ships were "turning".

As for 30 to 40 knots...if that were the case then I don't think either ship would have survived intact and still floating.

I think systems went afoul, radar or positioning went haywire and by the time the cruise ship saw the cargo ship (after going manual) there was little time to take measures to avoid the accident. They were, however slowing down...they just didn't slow down in time.

By the way, cruise ships have not had the best safety record lately. Especially with computer automated systems. There have been a rash of other accidents.

===========

Tuesday August 24 9:04 AM ET

Cruise Liner, Cargo Ship Collide

AP Photo

MARGATE, England (AP) - A Norwegian Cruise liner collided with a cargo ship on its way back from a 13-day tour of the Scandinavian capitals early today. At least 20 passengers suffered minor injuries.

The cruise ship bound for Dover pulled into the port on schedule, Norwegian Cruise Line President Geir Aune said. The 1,726 passengers, most Americans, had breakfast on board before disembarking to return home.

``When I heard the bang, I really pictured another Titanic and started running to the deck,'' said passenger Arielle Adelman, 16, from New York City. ``It was really scary. There was a loud bang. I was walking down the hall and fell over. The ship started shaking and things started falling.''

The crash smashed the bow of the cruise ship, called the Norwegian Dream, but the boat made the 40-mile trip to Dover on its own and arrived safely. The injured passengers remained on board until the ship docked.

``A few people went to the doctor's office to check for minor scratches, but it was nothing serious,'' Aune said.

Rescue efforts were focused on the Panama-registered cargo ship Ever Decent, which was adrift outside shipping lanes 12 miles off the coast of Margate in southeast England. Its 40 crew members battled a fire that broke out as a result of the crash.

Pollution experts were on alert. Some of the cargo containers held hazardous material, but the pollution risk was considered minimal, coast guard spokeswoman Joanne Groenenberg said.

The crash happened at 1:15 a.m. in a part of the English Channel known as Falls Bank, 20 miles from Margate, the coast guard said.

It was unclear why the two ships collided. Weather conditions at the time of the crash were not hazardous, the coast guard said.

The force of the collision threw three shipping containers from the deck of the Ever Decent onto the 41,000-ton cruiser. Other containers fell into the water, while several more caught fire, said coast guard spokesman Mark Clark.

The cargo ship started to take on water and began leaning to one side,[side impact?] but later recovered and regained an upright position. It then headed toward shallow water to run aground, apparently to make it easier for a rescue and to fight the blaze.

Cruise ship passenger Bob Gedan, 62, from Fort Lauderdale, Fla., who was traveling with his wife Winnie, 61, said there were some anxious moments among passengers but never any panic.

``Most people were asleep at the time. The TV fell off onto our bed and woke my wife up,'' he said.

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-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), August 25, 1999.

BW,

Michael is right that the technology has changed since 1956. If you have any doubt that computers control these types of ships, I'd recommend a movie called "Speed 2" which actually is not unrealistic. If the computer and radar were functioning properly there would have been alarms going off all over the place.

Michael,

I did not say 30 or 40 knots, I said 20 or 30, and it is not uncommon for cruise ships to move at this clip. Other than that, you're right.

-- @ (@@@.@), August 25, 1999.

sorry for the error @ : )

I guess what I was trying to say was that they were almost certainly slowing down as you had stated. They didn't have time for a turn, just to slow down quickly...almost as if they did suddenly see something come out of the fog. But there wasn't any fog.

When you write, "there would have been alarms going off all over the place"

I thought abou that too but I'm just speculating so I didn't have any real evidence. It makes sense though that proximity warnings would be going off like crazy. Maybe they did, but because the ship was giving incorrect position then the systems like radar didn't "notice" the cargo ship until it was too late. Do radar, etc. need to be calibrated?

I think your comments regarding the dependency of technology are right on. Gross negligence may indeed be the ultimate reason but clearly my clueless speculation leads me to believe that the modern systems that work in these ships were somehow out of order.

Mike

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-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), August 25, 1999.

Michael,

I am no expert either, and am also speculating, but a little knowledge and a lot of common sense can go a long way these days. I agree with what I consider to be a very accurate assessment on your part. I do know from my own actual hands-on experience with GPS that the rollover does in fact cause many problems. Unfortunately there are still a lot of people out there who would rather believe the PR spin than to use some common sense, and this is what is going to make the effects of Y2K more devastating than they need be. Have a good one.

-- @ (@@@.@), August 25, 1999.