Ok kids, here we go again.

Doomers were warning people that the GPS rollover would have some impact on shipping, banks, power/utility stations and a ton of other things.

GPS roll over came and went and nothing happened. Some Japanese who have old cars didnt bother to upgrade their GPS stuff but so what, its not the end of the world. These people will have to use maps for a little while or just remember were they want to go. Gee, TEOTWAWKI !.

Now we have 9/9/99 coming and its going to be the same thing.

What about the fabled panic the minute the sleeping masses wake up. Havent the masses heard enough already, doesnt it appear daily in the news?. Maybe they are fully awake and think its going to be a bump in the road so why freak out and order 4,000 pounds of freeze dried foods. I mean the Pentagon Papers came out and the markets went up and nobody ran to Costco and cleaned out the shelves.

Not a single major problem happened with GPS, why do people think so much MUST go wrong with Y2k. Did Gary drum the "its systemic, it cant be fixed" so hard that you cant get it out of your minds. When will the doomers and tinfoils ratchet it down a notch.

Will report the score after 9/9/99 (maybe sooner if we have another Pentagon Papers fiasco).

-- bob (bobandmargaret@england.com), August 22, 1999

Answers

Wrong-- the score is really Pollies 9, Doomers 1

the only date(and we've had lots) that caused any noted problems was jan 1 1999. the other dates(like 4-9-99) went right by, with nothing.

BUT-- the flaw in your logic is the pointscale.

because if we're right about y2k, the score will be Pollies 9, Doomers 1,394,348 ........get it? doesn't matter if 840 pre y2k dates go by without problems, if y2k is a big problem, you instantly lose the game.

lets hope you win though....

-- Super (Slfsl@yahoo.com), August 22, 1999.

They are still waiting for 1/1/00 before they can safely go and find a new outlet for their disdain of the world. I feel that it's just an inferiority complex and this is the way that these ineffectuals will ever attain any measure of power or fame. They wish for the end of the world because their God has promised them that they, being the "meek", shall inherit it.

What they don't understand is that nobody is going to want a world that is war torn, savaged by revolution, mourning the deaths of millions, and on the brink of extinction. And who is going to want to live in a world that is being run by "the meek".

These people are dangerous and are a threat to society and freedom. While they sit in their Y2K bunkers anxiously anticipating TEOTWAWKI they hatch plans to bring down the "gubmint" and take over... where? Well, they haven't quite got that part figured out just yet, whcih makes them all tha much more incompetant and ineffectual.

The Doomers need to be closely examined by the FBI, starting now. These people pose a real threat to our freedom and should be considered terrorists for inciting people to rebel against the USA and threaten EVERYONE'S freedom.

-- (Doomers@suck.com), August 22, 1999.

But thats the fault in YOUR logic. You assume if doomers are right its going to be so horrible. Well, what if the Nostradamous crowd is right, or the "Hidden Comet" crowd or the crowd that thinks China/Russia will attack on 1/1/2000 or the crowd that thinks Jesus will return on 1/1/2000 or the "race riot" crowd or .....

See my point, just because you do a worst case "what if" doesnt mean we should be going wacko over this. "But what if it does happen?", well what if anything else happens like a massive earthquake in San Francisco or a dam collapse in some heavily populated area or....

Doomers want to scream "The End Is Nigh" just like their doomer forefathers because they are convinced they must be right and not the government or companies doing remediation.

Doomers say you must be 100% compliant, not just 99%. Doomers say you must do testing for a full year. Doomers say you must check with all of your suppliers and they must be 100% compliant. But even if you do all that the doomers STILL SAY it cant be fixed.

-- bob (bobandmargaret@england.com), August 22, 1999.

My previous post was directed at "Super". Sorry I didnt specify the target.

-- bob (bobandmargaret@england.com), August 22, 1999.

Seems the Tinfoils were all hoping for something bad to happen yesterday. When it did not, they reverted to their standard refrain "just wait and see, it'll still be bad, millions will die, the gubmint will declare martial law, it'a a big conspiracy, we're being lied to, black helicopters, white trucks, NWO, Pentagon papers, Klintons fault, yadda, yadda...

"... I believe we'll start seeing [disruptions] by this summer, and I believe they'll continue for at least a year. As many people are now aware, 46 states (along with Australia and New Zealand) will begin their 1999-2000 fiscal year on July 1, 1999; New York (and Canada) will already have gone through their Y2K fiscal rollover on April 1, and the remaining three states begin their new fiscal year on August 1, September 1, and October 1. We also have the GPS rollover problem to look forward to on August 22nd, as well as the Federal government's new fiscal year on October 1st.

There is, of course, some finite probability that all of these rollover events will occur without any problems; but there's also a finite probability that pigs will learn to fly."

Ed "Flying Pig" Yourdon

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), August 22, 1999.

off

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), August 22, 1999.

You pollies continue to confuse 1999 with 2000. I mean, they don't look alike, they don't sound alike, why the confusion???

And Doomsuck, you must be mainlining the java, dude, you are absolutely frothing with mad delusions. Go 24 hours without coffee, then re-read what you just wrote, then come back and tell us: who is having paranoid delusions? Pathetic, stupid, frigging morons.

(And hey Bob, I asked you politely last time, let me ask again: Does Margaret mudwrestle?)

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), August 22, 1999.

No my friend, this time my "delusions" are real...

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001HVc

-- (Doomers@suck.com), August 22, 1999.

Doomers,

You said,

"And who is going to want to live in a world that is being run by "the meek".

These people are dangerous and are a threat to society and freedom."

Do you prefer the self centered egotists? Wouldn't it be a better world if politicians had a little humility? They call us taxpayers and workers, they consider themselves better than us all the while surviving off our sweat. The are not much more than bloodsucking ticks.

Seems more likely that the rulers of today are the danger to society.

Meek and mild does not mean stupid and unarmed or unprepared for whatever happens.

We will be free!

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), August 22, 1999.

Ah, the dance of the sugar-plum pollies is in full swing today. It's the "don't confuse me with logic episode".

You are right, it's all a big joke. Don't go getting real on us now. The supply lines are still open, and some of us still need a few things before TSHTF. Go back to sleep sheeple, watch football, stay away from Sam's and Costco. Don't cause me to have to scramble because of shortages or run up the prices and make things scarce. Good pollies, stick your head back in the sand. Everything will fine...those nutcases spending billions of $$$$ fixing this Y2K bug are silly.

Keep dancing, if you get tired, Ko-skin-em will help you spin some more....

-- bill (tinfoil@sombrero.com), August 22, 1999.

Bill, not surprisingly your attacking the messenger and not the message. GPS was a no show, what do you have to say to that? Do you see no relation to this computer transition and the Year 2000 computer transition?

-- (whatcha@think. tin-sombrero?), August 22, 1999.

#1)-- i said, let's hope you win.

a plain indication that i wish for neither doom, nor destruction.

#2) the difference with all those scenarios you posted was that those are all speculations, and there is no date that everyone agrees, that problems will occur on.

so remember, the more you categorize me as someone who wants doom for my daughters, remember you're wrong.

i am a realist.

even in the most perfect times in society these days, many problems occur. so the "minor" problems that y2k poses, according to you, won't be so minor when coupled with the other things that exist.

like Sigorney Weaver said: "I hope you're right..... I really do..."

-- Super (slfsl@yahoo.com), August 22, 1999.

Hey I don't remember reading anything all week that predicted major problems regarding GPS, did you? Seems to me it came down just like they said. The system rolled over just like they intended it to when they sent them up. The individual units (like the ones in the Japanese cars are messing up) just like they said. Others no doubt will have some problems too. Too early to see if any banks got caught up in this, being the weekend. So what...GPS is not about Y2K. The navy report this week never said anything about GPS now did it. Also, this one is easy to cover up, unless a ship crashes into the statue of liberty or something. The score doesn't matter until Jan. or Feb. in my book. We still have to wait and see, prepare or not prepare, put your family at risk or not. Believe Ko-spin-em or not. "Better to have and not need, than to need and not have."

I know we shouldn't feed the pollies and the trolls, I couldn't resist.

-- bill (tinfoil@sombrero.com), August 22, 1999.

Y2K will happen one way or another regardless of the subjective viewpoint of worried doomers or insecure pollyannas.this attitude of keeping score is the most asinine thing I've seen since the "Roseanne" show.If you're not here to better prepair,why not get a life,quit trying to prove to the world that you're right and move on.Do you pollyannas see the irony of endlessly banging your head here?

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 22, 1999.

The Doomers need to be closely examined by the FBI, starting now. These people pose a real threat to our freedom and should be considered terrorists for inciting people to rebel against the USA and threaten EVERYONE'S freedom.

Wow...and my husband thinks I'm paranoid. Geeze fellow, I'm giving up my seat in the "Paranoid Club Of America" to you. I am not worthy.

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), August 22, 1999.

Here we go again!! The pollys and doomers at each other throat!

That is all this Forum has become!

I'm so tired of it!

The pollys forget that this is a doomer Forum and the polly's have no business to even show up here!

Why don't the pollys start their own Forum so the doomers can go there and bug them to death!

-- John (John@johnson.com), August 22, 1999.

"Why don't the pollys start their own Forum so the doomers can go there and bug them to death!

-- John (John@johnson.com)"

There are several. My favorite is De-bunking Y2K You should drop in and "bug" them. They like it.

-- No GPS (Problems@end.ofworld), August 22, 1999.

GPS Rollover has nothing to do with Y2K.

BTW: Did you *read* the Naval...Report?

BTW: Have you read RC's Posts on oil refineries?

BTW: Have you read the IEEE Report?

BTW: Have you read anything Sen. Bennett (Dodd, etc.) has said over the last year?

BTW: Have you heard about the World Bank?

Man, no one said the GPS system was going to bring the world to its knees. Why? It's NOT hooked up to the world, like the computer systems are...

We were told LAST YEAR that the GPS rollover would be no big deal. Viola! you are right...gasp!!!

Sorry for being a touch sarcastic...honest (grin)

-- mar (derigueur2@aol.com), August 22, 1999.

The way it looks to me is that someone as far back as July was trying to set up the GPS rollover as a strawman:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001A9s

"GPS rollover - August 21, 22"

-- Linkmeister (link@librarian.edu), August 22, 1999.

Linkmeister, 100% correct-a-mundo!

John, the polly trolls keep starting their own forums, like Gary South, Biffy, and Debonkers, but nobody wants to play with them. Their last desperate effort to make new friends was on LUSENET---called Y2K humor. They hoped if they brought their party a little closer to TB2000 maybe then we would play with them. (If you want to see some real, though unintended, Y2K humor, go see what a total failure THAT board was!) Too bad they don't like each other any better than we like them. They have no one else to talk to, so they make up silly names, wear funny disguises, and come here.

Oh, BTW, Chicken Little = CPR.

-- it's really true (it'sTrue@really.com), August 22, 1999.

I consider GPS to be just one class of "embedded system." How many other embedded system "classes" are out there with a date problem? How many PC, mainframe and mid-range systems? Give me a break, GPS is just a drop in the bucket, the warning was well known, and the "fix" cheap and easy.

It ain't Y2K yet.

Tick.. Tock... <:00=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), August 22, 1999.

ANSWERING DOOMERSUCK:

Check this one DUMMYSUCK-- you paranoid fascist. Join the Party and tell all how your brand of freedom enslaves the poor and fattens the rulers. We THE ORIGINAL FASCISTS WELCOME ONE MORE SCUM LIKE YOU.

Greensboro, NC is on the expected failures list for water and sewer. There have been summertime drought conditions here for two summers in a row. Greensboro is already on water restrictions. It would not take much of a glitch at all to deprive the city of its water supply. Regardless of Y2k, Greensboro may have to buy water from some other location, yet the most accessible local supplies are having the same problem, historically low lake levels. As the water supply dries up, the remaining water is concentrating sludge and pollution, straining local facilities for treatment.

Toss in y2k and you have a city of over 200,000 people that will not be able to supply clean, safe water. If the sewer fails as well, the city will have to be evacuated until it is fixed. It is ridiculous to think that the National Guard will be able to truck in bottled water for that many people while at the same time dealing with similar problems elsewhere. Nor will they be able to 'requisition' water from folks in the country like me. Our own well is down 65 feet, and if we take any more out of it than we normally do on a daily basis, we will get dirt sludge. And we have a deep, artesian well! The dairy farmer across the road is already having serious problems watering his cows, and has to buy water in trucks, despite having 4 wells on his land.

Based on what I see locally, the Navy report's estimate of conditions here in NC seems right on the mark as far as water goes. Only a really shallow observer could fail to see that we are on a precipice already, and that Y2K could be just the right push......

Not to mention Raliegh, Cary, and Charlotte. If the water fails, where will all these hundreds of thousands of people go? Where? To 'internment camps'? Fugghetaboudit. The truth is, no one knows where they would go, not even the US guvmint. There is no way that such a mass movement of people could be co- ordinated in any way that would preclude a serious disaster.

After the Navy report hit the news, there was a local happy- face article in the Raliegh News and Observer reassuring us that our coffe machines would work! They were trivialising it and ridiculing the seriousness of the threat. But guess what was buried in a final paragraph of the article? An outright admission by the Greensboro city water utility that it IS NOT COMPLIANT AND IS UNLIKELY TO BE COMPLIANT IN TIME! I guess they thought no one would read past the coffee machine stuff. I am very angry at the attitude they have taken, but people are such sheep that they just pass over it and forget about it.

Look, folks, there is just no time for polly or doomer arguments. Any one with any sense in Greensboro right now is thinking water storage and purification. Our own governments. local and higher, have apparently decided to let God sort it out as to who lives or dies. Darwinism by neglect! Since they can't fix it and it is impossible for every one to prepare, they will just leave it up to us to be smart enough to see through the spin, and those that aren't, well, species reduction is Nature's Way. I consider this to be a criminal negligence of their duty to protect the public. We'll see what they say when they are brought to account by an angry public.

-- Forrest Covington (theforrest@mindspring.com), August 22, 1999

Answers

-- Benito Mussolini (Mussolini@Fascism.Dumb), August 22, 1999.

Threat to everyone's freedom? So those who advocate personal preparedness should be investigated as a threat to freedom? I guess there is no room for free speech in your little utopian delusional world. So what are the freedoms we might be a threat to? Freedom to travel? Can I travel unhindered via modern mode of conveyance? Not without a permit. Do I have the freedom to keep and bear arms? Not without a permit and then only if it isnt on the "bad gun" list. (I have little doubt that you sir, advocate confiscation of privately owned firearms.) The freedom to keep the fruits of my own labor? Not until the IRS confiscates theirs first. Do I have the freedom to take a fishing pole down to the river and catch a meal? Not without a permit. Oh and I have to have a permit to use my rowboat too. Do I have the freedom to marry the mate of my choosing? Not without a permit. Freedom to work at the occupation of my choosing? Not without a federal number (permit). Freedom to live on my own land? Only if I pay the yearly permission fees (property tax). Do I have the freedom go to the airport and pay for my ticket with cash? Only if I want the rest taken by the police. And after the police take the fruits of my labor not already confiscated by the IRS, am I then free to get on the plane? Not without allowing a search of my person. Can I observe and practice my religious beliefs? Not in a school. So what freedom is it that I am a threat to, your freedom to get your welfare in the form of HUD loans, student loans (which you won't repay), AFDC, food stamps, welfare payments, unemployment, etc.? Is that what you mean by freedom? The freedom to take the fruits of my labor and give it away to others? Or is it the freedom to spend my money on wars I oppose and secret projects to overthrow foreign governments? So do you mean by freedom the freedom of the government to do whatever it wants by finding inventive ways to circumnavigate the protections of the Constitution and take the fruits of my labor? To spend money they don't yet have and plunge our children and us into unrecoverable debt? Is that the freedom I am a threat to?

"While they sit in their Y2K bunkers anticipating TEOTWAWKI they hatch plans to bring down the "gubmint" and take over...where?"

I don't know whom the elusive "they" are here. The only people I am aware of that are planning to be in bunkers during the rollover are state and federal governments. Is that the "they" you are referring to? Even if it is true that some want to see the "gubmint" go down as a result of Y2K, as you have put it, I just don't understand how failing to support an ever growing totalitarian government is a threat to freedom? By your logic, more government is more freedom and if government were to be "taken down" you would have less freedom. That simply flies in the face of all the known history of mankind and particularly the history of this country.

I submit that you have no hint of what freedom means. That freedom is the right that you are given at birth, not at the whim of a license. Freedom, as your GOD given birthright, means that you have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. An ever growing and increasingly intrusive government, monitoring and regulating our lives from birth to grave, does not grant freedom.

You think that anyone you classify as a doomer is a terrorist and I gather that anyone advocating preparedness is a doomer. Good, go arrest the terrorists, John Koskinen, all members of the Senate Y2K committee, The American Red Cross, FEMA, > of state and local government leaders, etc.

No one is guaranteeing anything, if thats good enough for you thats fine, it is not good enough for me. That government and private industry has every incentive to lie may be fine for you, it is a cause of concern for me. At barely more than 3 months before the rollover major corporations with vast resources are not finished with their remediation. Budgets continue to rise and deadlines are slipping while new systems are taken offline because they have failed. Simultaneously, their spokesperson is telling us how great everything is. They are creating Y2K bunkers and command posts, denying vacations and budgeting overtime, and while they tell us not to worry, they a stockpiling raw materials. I guess you and those of your ilk think that unless proven before hand that it will be TEOTWAWAKI no one should do any kind of preparation and those that advocate doing so are terrorists. It is people who like you who mindlessly advocate the use of government powers to suppress others, who have no idea what freedom really means, that I find to be the greatest threat to mine.

You pollys are gamblers, you are betting that nothing major will happen, you may be betting your lives. If you are in an apartment in Manhattan without power for 3 days, due to a local outage, it will be a major outage for you. So what will you do, knock on my door? I dont recommend that. Will you wait for the gumint to rescue you? Hope youre not hungry. Or will you become a snake eater that roams at night trying to steal enough to stop the hunger pangs or keep the kids from crying all the time? Regardless of the yet unknown outcome, me and mine will be fine. Because I have taken precautions, I know that not once will I hear Daddy, Im hungry. or Daddy Im cold. or Daddy Im thirsty. Will I be troubled if nothing happens? No, surprised maybe, but not troubled. I will still eat my food and read my books and such, I will just be doing it with electric light instead of candlelight. You advocate gambling and I do not. If you right, and little or nothing happens, your bet pays nothing to you, but I save a fortune on groceries. I win. If things go down locally you lose big and, well, I guess I still win dont I?

-- camel (doomersuck@isafool.com), August 22, 1999.

So Doomers Suck:

You think 'doomers' are threats, eh? What next, Jews? Then what after that? Go back to your Nazi brethren you facist bastard.

-- Nazi Hater (DoomersSuck@IsAnazi.com), August 22, 1999.

Doomers Suck:

Great Post! I have copied it for distribution to my Aryan Nations friends. I have a few KKK buddies that I'm going to tell about it too. You rock dude! I think we have a lot in common. By the way Doomers Suck: Which concentration camp was your favorite? Mine was Auschwitz. Please let me know what yours is.

-- I Love Doomers Suck (DoomersSuck@IsaGenius.com), August 22, 1999.

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001HVc

I'm not the NAZI bastard who said "I hope it's a 9 or a 10".

Nuff said, no go back to hatching your plans of taking out the Federal Gubmint.

Or as Gary North has spouted, "so of course I hope Y2k takes down the system, I have hoped for this my entire adult life".

-- (Doomers@suck.com), August 22, 1999.

Bob (bobandmargaret) is Wolverine. Hello, Wolfy.

-- Ican (spot@em.immediately), August 22, 1999.

Camel,

I imagine you are wasting your time trying to explain risk management to doomersuck and the rest of his ilk. It's my guess that none of them have children to worry about. Those of us who do generally try to prepare for possible problems. We take the responsibility of having to provide for children seriously. Just as we provide life insurance to sustain our families in the event of our untimely deaths, we build a pantry for hard times. I think when I get past the hostility, I feel sorry for doomersuck and company. When adversity comes, they are usually the type that can not cope, because it is not supposed to happen to them.

-- Dian (bdp@accessunited.com), August 22, 1999.

But ... DOES MARGARET M-U-D-W-R-E-S-T-L-E ??????????

Gawd, is Bob/Wolverine blind as well as dumb?

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), August 22, 1999.

Doomer Suck:

You didn't say you wanted a 9 or 10? Oh. Neither do any of us 'doomers'. It probably was your friend Y2K Pro imitating A, using A's name to spread that garbage about societal breakdown. And if it was A who wants a 9 or 10, then he/she speaks only for himself. You and your nazi buddies are trying to demonize and discredit people who don't agree with you, aren't you?

What is your last name Doomer Suck? Himmler? Goebbels? Go back to your SS wannabees. Don't you have a cross burning to attend?

-- Nazi Hater (doomersucks@IsaNazi.com), August 22, 1999.

Doomer Suck:

Don't let these ignoramuses get you down. Here's are quotes that have inspired me in the past. With your disdain for the weaknesses showed by the neurotic doomers, I know that you can spot true character when you see it. Like you, I believe that the doomers will be victims of their own fears. Thankfully, we have intelligent people like yourself to show doomers the errors of their ways. I admire you, Doomers Suck.

"Either the world will be ruled according to the ideas of our modern democracy, or the world will be dominated according to the natural law of force; in the latter case the people of brute force will be victorious." Adolf Hitler "Mein Kampf"

A violently active, intrepid, brutal youth - that is what I am after... I will have no intellectual training. Knowledge is ruin for my young men." Adolf Hitler quoted by John Gunther "The Nation"

Forget the Gary Norths of the world, Doomers Suck. The future is ours, Doomers Suck.

-- I Love Doomer Suck (DoomerSuck@IsaGenius.com), August 22, 1999.