Here is my electric co's response to Pentagon Papers.greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
I sent the complete report to the CLAY ELECTRIC IN NORTH CENTRAL FLORIDA (the company is listed on the report as probable failure) I was very explicit that I was doing this out of courtesy and not criticism. That since their company was listed, I felt they should know about it. Here is the response! Locked my jaws up tight!! Taz
Subj: RE: Check out The Pentagon Papers of Y2K [Free Republic] Date: 8/20/99 7:01:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time From: email@example.com (Jan O'Steen) To: JHaral2197@aol.com ('JHaral2197@aol.com')
I have forwarded the information to our director who is responsible for our Y2K information. Just to note: Many of the Electric companies listed were fictitous. Thank you.
Jan O'Steen firstname.lastname@example.org
-- Taz (Tassie@aol.com), August 20, 1999
This is called a set-up folks. The Clinton Administration is famous for them.
They leak what appears to be legit info, only to have it proven later to be all bunk and bullshit that THEY themselves manufactured for discreditation purposes. It tarnishes the political opposition and and labels them as untrustworthy and extremist nutcases hellbent on an action.
The Administration did this with the "Clinton sired an illegitimate son story" which came out during the Lewinski scandal - which turned out to be bogus and painted the Conservatives in the light of a 'vengeance at all costs lobby' out to get the prez. This happened JUST before the Kathleen Willey story went mainstream. It is thought that the "Bastard Son Story' did so much damage to the Conservative campaign to out the scandals of this president, that even when CBS ran the Willey interview (amidst the patented demouguogery), most folks discarded her claims as 'Just another one'.
This Administration is also famous for leaking true revelations of trouble early to select sources that either sit-on and bury the news or give it little attention, so that when the expose's on the real meat of a situation come forth, the Administration calims "That's old news. Nothing new."
With Koskinen being the right-hand-man of Billy Jeff on Y2K, look for this sort of thing to continue at a breakneck pace regarding Y2K. Truth and bullshit leaked together to confuse and sidetrack the main event.
It is possible this document was a legitimate tool to do nothing more than provide the Navy a blueprint to design contingency plans. It is possible that this document is a legitimate report of the current situation as the navy saw it. But it is more possible, that this document was picked-up, and deliberately leaked with enough 'Offical' oomph to comprise it's validity, to do nothing more than paint us Tinfoils as desperate and misguided.
Do not be ignorant of the devil's devices. These guys are Masters of deceit and Demouguogery.
This Navy report story stinks....it smells of deliberacy and magicians' sleight-of-hand to focus attention away from the REAL MEATY ISSUES about to come forth in rapid-fire succession.
Sifting fact from fiction is a tool these Professionals use to keep America in it's stupor.
-- INVAR (email@example.com), August 20, 1999.
Now that is REALLY WEIRD. Either this email is a hoax, the guy/gal who said the companies did not exist is almost a complete moron, or I am dreaming. c'mon? they don't exist. Don't you think this would have been used right away by the Navy to downplay the report, unless of course they have managed to publish a report that has non-existent utilities on it?????
Hey poster, call them back and ask em which ones are not real.
-- walter (firstname.lastname@example.org), August 20, 1999.
I agree with INVAR, except for the inference that "disinformation" was invented by Bill Clinton (It's a far older technique than that). Disinformation is one of the best ways to discredit someone. Ever read the story of the boy who cried wolf? Ahhwoooooooo!
Now, everyone ask themselves, this question: Am I really invested in the DGI's becoming GI's, or do I get some sort of twisted thrill out of the idea of millions of dead, come 1/1/00?
If your answer is, "Why yes, as a matter of fact, the idea of the cities stacked high with corpses gives me a bit of a tingle". Then keep on with the LEAPING to every new bit of "evidence" that comes out.
You know, waiting a day, to check this thing out, would have gone a long way towards showing the newbies that we're not just a bunch of overly hormonal, terminally adolescent Peter Pans, who've watched too many episodes of the X-Files. Not just Zombies, who rise and howl at every sign. You know, you can't have it both ways. Thses can't be sinister conspirators who have cleverly manipulated us into sheepdom, and stll be stupid enough to let a sensitive document leak out so easily. Which is it - are we the victims of devilsh masterminds, or the victims of a bunch of bunglers? I put my money on the bunglers, every time.
It does not have to be an "evil conspiracy" for it to be TEOTWAKI - basic human ineptitude is more than enough to do the job.
-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), August 20, 1999.
As has been noted in many a previous thread -
Hanlon's Razor: "Never ascribe to villainy what is best explained by stupidity."
-- Mac (email@example.com), August 20, 1999.
OK, either many of the listed electric companies were fictitious or they were not. One or the other other.
NOW, if they were NOT, then we have a real report of real problems, and the doomies were right. Conversely, if they WERE fictions, then we have a duplicitous administration pulling a fast one, and the doomies are ALSO right.
Meanwhile Clay Electric either admits they're a probable failure, in which case the doomies are right, or else they deny it, which proves that you can't trust any good news and the doomies are ALSO right.
You'd think this line of reasoning would become tiresome after a while, but I guess if you really BELIEVE strongly enough, you'll swallow anything.
Keep us posted, though. It'll be nice to know whether Clay is in bad shape and admits it, or whether Clay is in bad shape and denies it. Just for the record.
-- Flint (firstname.lastname@example.org), August 20, 1999.
Don't know if any of the names in the report were fictional but the untilities listed for Gulfport, MS and Slidell, LA are accurate. It would be interesting to hear from others on the list if any of the utilities listed in their area were fictitious.
Best regards Doc
-- T.H. "Doc" Toups (email@example.com), August 20, 1999.
I thought something was odd when I saw Lewisville, Ark. listed on the report. I have lived in Ark all my life, and I had never heard of Lewisville. I had to look it up on the map. It is close to Magnolia but not big enough to have its name on the map I used. I couldn not figure out why Lewisville was even considered by the Navy. And I have never heard of Southwest Arkansas Electric It might be a co-op and there are many of those here in the state for the smaller towns, but to finger this one (if it is real) is really weird.
-- Carol (firstname.lastname@example.org), August 20, 1999.
Good points Flint.
Bokkonn or whatever the hell your name is: The difference between pollies and most doomers is that pollies pray they are right; doomers pray they are wrong.
-- a (email@example.com), August 20, 1999.
Look, Koskinen has stated that the report is genuine and official, so even if there were "fictitious" utilities, that is no reflection on Jim Lord. At best, that means that some of the Navy's data was less than reliable. Which is yet one ADDITIONAL problem that we have with Y2K compliance determination this late in the game.
-- King of Spain (firstname.lastname@example.org), August 20, 1999.
Southwest Arkansas Electric
-- _ (_@_._), August 20, 1999.
All of the companies listed for the Kansas City area (including any suburbs or small cities close by) are real.
-- Wilferd (WilferdW@aol.com), August 20, 1999.
anybody have a link to the list??? I've been out of touch for a while and sure would like to see it.
-- JudiAnn (JudiAnnG_@yahoo.com), August 20, 1999.
Here is a list of the electric utilities Jim Lord listed:
Baldwin EMC, Milton FL
Bessemer Utilities, Bessemer AL
Central Louisiana Electric, Slidell LA
City of Albany GA
City of Key West FL
City Public Service Board, San Antonio TX
Clay Electric Cooperative, Jacksonville FL
Coastal Electric Members, Jacksonville FL
Daviess Martin County Rural Elect, Crane IN
Dayton Power & Light, Dayton OH
El Paso Electric Co., El Paso TX
Escambia River Elec Co., Milton FL, Pensacola FL
Florida Power and Light, Canaveral FL, Ft Lauderdale FL
Florida Power Corp, Clearwater FL
Gulf States Utilities, Orange City FL
JEA, Atlantic Beach FL, Jacksonville FL
Knoxville Utilities Board, Knoxville TN
Middle Georgia Elec, Hawkinsville GA
Mississippi Power and Light, Gulfport MS
Northeast Utilities, New London CT
Orlando Utilities Commission, Orlando FL
Port of Seattle WA
Riviera Utilities, Milton FL
Sierra Electric Cooperative, Truth or Conseq. NM
South Central Power, Columbus OH
Southern Pine Elec Coop, Milton FL
Southwest Arkansas Electric, Lewisville AR
Southwest Louisiana Electric, Broussard LA
Southwestern Public Services, Amarillo TX
Twin County Electric, Hollandale MS
Northeast Utilites is real, does operate in Connecticut, probably including New London, but is headquartered in Hartford.
-- Jerry B (email@example.com), August 20, 1999.
They said, "Many of the Electric companies listed were fictitous"?
Ask them to name them. Or *some* of them. Or *ONE* of them!
-- Ron Schwarz (firstname.lastname@example.org), August 20, 1999.
"Just to note: Many of the Electric companies listed were fictitous. Thank you."
That seems like his opinion to me. Because he works for an electric company doesn't make him automaticaly all knowing of which company exist and which doesn't, and where they are located.
We know that the Navy was primarily concerned with areas where they had bases. Military bases are not usually located in the center of major cities or well knowned areas. Perhaps Jan O'Steen is just a 20 year old college student who's sitting at his/her computer answering emails for Clay for a few extra bucks a week, not overly concerned about the accuracy of his/her responses.
But in any case, we'd think the navy and Kosky would have picked up on this and point it out. If they didn't think of it then, they should soon. We'll see.
-- Chris (%$^&^@pond.com), August 20, 1999.
While Dan Blather was spinning this story tonight (Aug.20), he dragged out the mayor of Orlando to help refute the story. In the Pentagon Papers, Orlando was cited as a four star city for "partial failure is likely", and the Oulando Utilities Comission was cited for probable failure in both gas and electric.
The Orlando Utilities Comission today (august 20) issued at their web site a denial of the whole thing, stating that the they had advised the Navy on January 25 that they expected to be fully ready, and tnat nothing further was ever received from the Navy.
The Orlando Utilities Comission apparently supplies electricity and water to Orlando, and not gas as stated in the Pentagon Papers.
The Orlando Utilities Commission web site is
The rest of their year 2000 website statements are reasonably reassuring, and contain none of the usual reservations.
-- dave (email@example.com), August 20, 1999.
Putnam county,Florida (50 miles south of Jacksonville) is served by Clay electric on the north and FPL (Florida Power and Light) on the south end. Didn't know they extended all the way to Ft. Lauderdale but it's probable, the way Florida is cut up with so many electric companies.
-- sue (firstname.lastname@example.org), August 21, 1999.
I immediately emailed Clay Electric and asked them to tell me which electric companies were ficticious. She said, since she had sent the report onto the director she didn't have the list and couldn't remember. So I immediately sent her the list! I do want to say that Clay Electrical Coop is the largest in the US. Also that I am VERY satisfied with them and we enjoy top service at low prices. I have no complaints. They do not claim to be compliant. They do say they are as ready as they know how to be considering they produce no power themselves. They have also been buying large generators and installing them for businesses. That was our first clue that we needed to do the same. It will be Monday before I hear back from Clay Electric....if I hear. I will keep you posted. Oh..and in fairness I sent the "new" report on to them too. Clay Electric is still listed as a probable failure. HOWEVER, maybe that is because they produce no power themselves.
Taz...who is not ticked at the co op but the person representing the co op.
-- Taz (Tassie@aol.com), August 21, 1999.
As I posted on the original "Pentagon Papers of y2k" thread:
""Sierra Electric Cooperative, Truth or Conseq. NM" listed in Electrical Utilities expected to fail. A town of 6000 in southern NM on the Navy's list?
al-D, is there something you're (excuse me -- you,re) not=telling- us??
-- jor-el (email@example.com), August 19, 1999.
If there's a joke in here, it's sure a strange one. But I'm not surprised at our wariness. "Won't get fooled again..."
Al Driscoll, have you called *your* utility yet?
-- jor-el (firstname.lastname@example.org), August 21, 1999.
I don't know about Truth or Consequence, NM --- but Navy's in some STRANGE places.
I drove from Las Vegas, NV up to Oregon. Can't remember the highway. But, there's only one that goes the length of Nevada. Primarily high dessert. You see nothing for miles (except some trailer brothels).
According to my AAA map, I knew that eventually there would be a town I could stop in for lunch in northern Nevada. As I'm driving, remember all I'm seeing is dessert ... I start to see groupings of things that looked like bunkers. As I got closer to town, I saw more and more for miles. They were all over the place.
When I stopped for lunch I asked the waitress what were all of these things? Apparently these things I saw had something to do with weapons storage. Can't remember the specific term she used.
And then she told me there was a naval base there! I asked, "Why in the world is there a Naval base in the middle of the dessert?" She told me, when I drive out of town, to look to the right and I'll see a lake. They do their training there.
This might explain why there are some small-town names on that Naval report.
-- Cheryl (Transplant@Oregon.com), August 21, 1999.
You are probably thinking of Fallon Naval Air Station. It's also a naval weapons storage facility and bombing range. Good place for it as if the weapons go off very few will ever notice it (just kidding to all you nevadans.) Although having driven that highway from end to end my impression was that anyone who doesn't think we have a place to dump nuclear waste hasn't taken that drive!
-- kozak (email@example.com), August 22, 1999.
There is a Navy base, Navy Air Station, Naval Weapons Station, Naval Training Facility, or other navy facility at every city listed.
Now, I grant that some don't stick out very much, but they are there. I don't know all of the electric and gas ans water utilities on the list, but every one the list that I recognized is known to be among those NOT now ready. For example, Orlando is not yet compliant, nor is Cape Canaveral - look a the FL utilities, and you'll see that both cities are among those whose utilities (in May and June) "planned" to ready by late Sept and Oct. Same with San Antonio. Same with El Paso.
Thus, the list is legitimate = it lists cities who are placing their Naval bases "at risk" of failure.
Of course, this places their citizens at risk too, but Clinton's administration doesn't care about that.
Now - can anybody find a utility on this list that can PROVE it is fully compliant now, and was able to tell that to the Navy at the end of July?
Invert the argument: in every city where the utilities are compliant and have been open to the public about their status, is the local Navy base included?
-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (firstname.lastname@example.org), August 22, 1999.
South Central Power in Columbus is real. Serves Rickenbacker Airport (used to by ANGB; before that AFB). Navy has Sea Bees there. South Central's web page has a big banner headline, "Concerned about Y2K? So are we!" (or something like that). Points to Rural Electric Co-op page, which says contains absolutely nothing informative.
-- yerfdog (email@example.com), August 23, 1999.