I hadn't seen this topic discussed here, but apologize if it has. I was going to reply on a very good discussion started by Lee on Firearm Safey Revisited, but thought maybe this is a bit different.

We often discuss the use of firearms, but some folks might be reluctant to purchase one. I am familiar with guns, and likewise, I have taken various classes in unarmed self defense. They are not the same, but the mental preparation and ability to defend one's self is the same.

One of the biggest fears I have, is untrained folks acquiring guns and then finding themselves either in a situation where they hesitate using them, and are retaliated upon worse then with out the gun, or using them with tragic results in an accident.

The ability to use a gun properly, even with proper training, is only half the lesson. The other half is knowing when to use the gun, and when not too. This is mental training, and it cannot be taught on the firing range.

From my experience, mental training is taught along with the martial arts. However, I was never agile enough to take those sort of classes, but unarmed self defense classes fit my physical abilities and most importantly, they force you to think out various defense situations and actions you will take ahead of time.

You are also taught various ways to avoid confrontation and how to present yourself by manner and attitude to not appear to be an easy target. This has nothing to do with physical ability, size or sex. The last advanced class I took, there was an very heavy set college girl, she couldn't move very fast at all and she was a very gentle soul; but she was the best student in the class because she had the mental skills necessary to defend herself.

Now take a person with a 357, and proper training, but no mental skill as to when to use or not use the weapon; vs. this girl with a three foot cane; put either of them against a big nasty fellow with a knife, and I will go with the girl with the stick any day. Not all of us can acheive that type of skill level perhaps...but it will get us thinking.

Classes are often offered through local community colleges, YMCA's or businesses especially for self defense in some larger areas. Fall classes for colleges are here, and I am betting most of us could find a class within reasonable driving distance. For example, our local college offers 32 hours course, beginner and advanced, 2 times a week, and costs I think as non credit for $30 as continuing education.

Ladies, consider this strongly; and gentlemen, think about it for your wives, daughters and sons, as well as yourselves.

-- Lilly (homesteader145@yahoo.com), August 17, 1999

Answers

On television (okay, Oprah), I saw a woman who fought off a male attacker while holding her baby tucked under one arm--and won. The point is, we are simply not weak and helpless. Prayer helps, too.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), August 17, 1999.

Just don't try to defend yourself from the same man with a gun as opposed to a knife. Lead poisoning would soon ensue.

There are no easy answers to the question of self defense...

growlin' at the strange man at the door....

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), August 17, 1999.

You are certainly right Dog, but whether you own a gun or not, and whether that gun is available to you when that stranger comes through the door, there are ways to growl, as opposed to whimpering! :-)

So unarmed self defense compliments gun ownership, or can stand on its own. Either way can be a win/win situation.

Most beginner classes deal with answering the door...lots of tricks and mental preparation just in a simple act some of us do every day.

-- Lilly (homesteader145@yahoo.com), August 17, 1999.

Lilly,

I am all in favor of anything which will help good honest people avoid those who would take advantage of them, and failing that, overcome verbally or physically any assailant who couldn't be avoided. There is much to be learned from all manner of sources. An old Russian proverb says, "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." One should strive to have as well stocked a toolkit as possible.

I believe the attitude which propels a person to undertake learning any form of self defense is essentially the same, and that the mere refusal to submit to victim status is a major first step in the right direction. Some people seem to be born with what is sometimes referred to as the PMA- proper mental attitude. Others seem destined never to discover whatever spark it is that lights the flame of resistance to abuse from whatever the source might be.

I too am deeply concerned that preventable tragedies might befall new firearms owners who have not taken time to seek proper training. That is why I continue to urge that such training be obtained. Not only will good training help prevent accidents due to inadequate storage or unsafe handling, it will help insure that people know the legal ramifications of self defense and that they have exhausted all other options before employing force at any level. It will also make it much less likely that an assailant will have the opportunity to gain control of a weapon.

What I consider to be proper training only _begins_ with being taught safety and basic shooting skills. Proper training takes time and requires considerable investment by both trainers and students. It encompasses all manner of things which have nothing whatever to do with firing a gun, from the proper attitude of awareness to one's surroundings to reading body language of people in the area to being taught how fast someone within 20 feet of you can move to within contact distance (Hint: less than 1.5 seconds for many people). Proper training will scare you and embarass you. It will make you sweat and think. It will provoke the same physical reactions under controlled circumstances that real life potentially deadly encounters do- tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, loss of varying amounts of small muscle control, etc. It will teach a great deal. And these things CAN be learned on the range. They can be learned in the dojo also.

I would be the last to urge all and sundry to go out and get a gun. Not everyone wants or needs to own one. Some people will not resist anyone, over anything. That is their choice and they have the right to make it if they wish.

Others may choose to employ different tools. Some are content to use good situational awareness and 'street smarts' to avoid trouble, and depend on a good pair of running shoes to get them out of trouble they fail to avoid otherwise. Others utilize a confident attitude and depend on martial arts, pepper spray, a stick or a knife. I know there is no best choice, no one choice, which is best for all people in all circumstances.

But I also know this- IN CAPABLE HANDS there is simply nothing else that can redress a great disparity of force the way a firearm can. That is why policemen carry them. Learning to capably employ a firearm takes comparatively less investment of time and effort than learning any other skill which can produce even remotely similar results. Thirty-one states now recognize the fact that responsible law abiding citizens are their own best protection if armed in public. Studies by degreed academicians report the frequency with which firearms in private hands stop crime, most often without a shot being fired. Statistics demonstrate that armed citizens, when forced to fire their weapons, actually kill more criminals on an annual basis than the police do (with fewer rounds fired as well).

There are some excellent trainers at work today, I dare say the best who have ever lived. Anyone who chooses to own a firearm for self defense should take advantage of these people. Merely buying a gun is not enough if you lack the skill to use it safely and effectively and the knowledge to use it properly. These things can be learned- they MUST be learned, for they are not all instinctive. And any individual who chooses to do so can learn them.

-- Lee (lplapin@hotmail.com), August 17, 1999.

"Snatch the pebble from my hand..."

-- Grasshopper (having tea@tokyo.net), August 17, 1999.

And in fact, I believe that most non-martial arts type classes on unarmed self defense center around building "street smarts" -- being aware of what is around you, walking in a way that says you are nobody's fool, shouting "No!", kicking groins, shattering kneecaps, etc., etc. I'm sure that these are great for urban "civilized" environments -- i.e., where the police are only a 9-1-1 call away.

Y2K has the potential to be very, very different. The environment may not be civilized at all. Those who would attack will be armed. Mobs may be formed. The issue is not being able to sustain an unarmed aggressor for the few minutes that it might take for the police to arrive, but rather how to protect the preparations that you and your family depend on from being taken from you.

To prepare for Y2K is to recognize this. To prepare for Y2K effectively is to "get over" whatever problems you have with firearms, and arm yourself, and be comfortable with them. This includes qualified instruction.

I realize that this is perhaps a topic for the "other" Yourdon forum, but I honestly wanted to post this here, because I think that anyone who believes that one can prepare for Y2K without firearms is not being realistic.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), August 17, 1999.

Lilly is absolutly correct, the self knowlege and confidence training will give you will usualy back off an attacker, whether it be bullit or hands. Think fast draw, or a killer punch. Practice, practice, practice. Get used to the idea of reacting without thought.

-- CT (ct@no.yr), August 17, 1999.

The fact of the matter is,in a time of crises,you will revert to the most basic level of your training.Martial arts should be pursued in the spirit of self improvement,not so you can kick ass or even "walk the street",and certianly not to prepair for y2k.The qualities that one develops through martial arts training(not street training!!! without philosophy and a moral code,it's not a martial "art",it's merely a fighting style)takes quite a bit of time.in the 4 month or so you'd only really have time to tell if the flavor of the art you're studying is suitable to your body type and temperment.If you are concerned about security because of y2k,buy a gun,take a safety class read "in the gravest extreme"by massad ayoob,and get to the range.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 19, 1999.