Unplaybackable recordings

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Here we go again. Skito mailed me about my Neo Double Dragon recording, which doesn't playback correctly. I'm planning to re-record. But, a question....

Does anyone actually test out their recordings before uploading them? I say this because of the recent Breakers and Breakers Revenge recordings that have been uploaded. I haven't been able to find a way to get them to playback on any version, in any way. Case in point, let's look at SportsDude's Breakers recording. I DL'ed it and tried for myself with sound on, m36b2. Didn't get past the first guy. Sound off, m36b2... didn't get past the first guy.

Now, when I was told my recordidng for Breakers didn't work, I lowered my score to 0. I don't know why though, because NO ONE else has done this. I've gotten 10 million scores on both versions but the recordings never playback right. Since everyone else is doing it, it must be all right for me to do the same thing, right?

Should the game be banned from tourney play until a proper way to record has been found? Or is it ok for me to upload a recording for it as long as I attach a screenshot? What's everyone's thoughts?

-- BBH (lordbbh@aol.com), August 15, 1999


I'm glad i'm not the only one getting miffed about this :)

I agree and i'm going to zero out my flipshot score since it doesn't play back reliably. (SportsDude, whenever you get a better compter lets mamenet! i can't wait to vs. with someone else too. hey maybe if i get a job in the northwest we could play on the same computer. and btw, your first on the flipshot score by now unless you want to join the band wagon.)

There was a rule that would accept uploads if there was a screenshot, zwaxy has already expressed distress with this rule in his post about this being a mame "ACTION" replay site. I think it should at least be up to a vote that if recordings that don't playback, reguardless of screenshot, they do not deserve a score or even to be uploaded at all.

It's totally in the etiquette page that you should playback your score before uplaoding it but i think this courtesy request is being passed by the wayside to amass points as fast as possible.

-- Chad (churritz@cts.com), August 16, 1999.

I test to make sure the game will record/playback with the sound & frameskip settings I'm going to use, but I don't usually play back the recording afterward anymore.

I've noticed a tendency to leave scores up forever too, whether the recording works or not or if something important changed between MAME versions. Almighty point grab I guess...

Anyway, if the game won't playback in any version my advice is to follow the "rule" for the ones that won't - get a screenshot. And yep, the ones that just will not record probably should be DQed for tournaments.


-- Aquatarkus (aquatarkus@digicron.com), August 16, 1999.

I playback all my recordings before submission. I had aksed this question about a month ago when I trouble playing back Xenophobe. Zwaxy stated that if it didn't play back to not submit it. Or something to that effect.

I gave submitted one recording that I new did not play back, Depthcharge. I tried some of the other recordgins in the versions that where stated that where used to record them and they didn't play back either.

I think if a game does not record correctly that those scores not be tallied for points. Leave the recordings, if the game should be fixed later and the recordings start working, then include those recordings for points.

-- Dave Kaupp (info@kaupp.cx), August 16, 1999.

Also, games that are severly broken should not be included in the point count. Like APB or that ther game where everyone gets 1000 when the game stops working after the first level.

Just my opinions of course. :)

-- Dave Kaupp (info@kaupp.cx), August 16, 1999.

A few points:

First off, I would agree that these games be banned from tourney play. I've had my fill of frustration with Us vs. Them. As for etiquette rules, I've never been able to find a rules page since I started here at MARP, although I suspect one exists dealing with illegal techniques (just don't know where). Skito sent me an e-mail about Last Blade 2 today...so I have to check that game's score as well I guess.

That said, I don't know about Battle Flipshot, but the problem with Breakers and Breakers Revenge isn't likely to go away anytime soon. The computer randomly selects a character for you to fight against each time, so theoretically, it is possible to get the same fights in the same order (if the recorder listed the order, and if you had enough patience to keep playbacking until the right combo of opponents came up) leading to the same results. In all fairness, I'm willing to believe what other people claim for their Neo-Geo game scores (and NeoGeo only at this point!) because the file size will correspond somewhat to how long they lasted in the game (ie: larger).

Officially, I'm stumped as to how these games can be viewed as legal. Maybe Dave is right, and we should have a temporary banned or disabled list of games that do not play or playback properly. Or maybe we could do an AVI file, and then have a judge confirm it before it gets posted.

-- Q.T.Quazar (qan@home.com), August 16, 1999.

Okay...so I'm a target for playing games that don't play back...sue me...=) Seriously though... I usually run my games at frameskip 8...if that matters anything...some games have it where frameskip matters in the replay. This SHOULD be the case in most Neo Geo games, I believe...(Puzzled is an exception, my mega-recording was able to playback at frameskip 11 and no speed throttling) Also, I really have no idea about playbackability of some games, because I something think of replaying them pointless because if it plays back on my machine, it may not do so on someone else's. Skito likes to tell me about that stuff. Although, I thought I fixed the Flipshot recording...someone told me Flipshot was playbackable in beta 2. To sum it all up, I'm really just recording blindly in MAME. I don't know if it's going to playback...especially in MAME32. (Which is why I've done all my recordings in DOS beta 2 lately, I probably will save MAME32 for the bigger Neo Geo games) I always figure that they'll playback fine since there are no warnings about it at startup. As for what to do for those games that DON'T play back...um...just tell me all the recordings you have problems with and I'll re-record, and back it up with a .png file dump of the score...

-- Sports Dude (shyboy820@aol.com), August 16, 1999.

The otherwise saintly and beloved MAME Team doesn't seem to give a rat's ass about game recording. They don't test it, don't fix it, and sure the hell don't list any reported recording problems. May speed up new versions but it's inconvenient as hell for MARP :)


Sorry about the overreaction, but you really do have to test first.


-- Aquatarkus (aquatarkus@digicron.com), August 16, 1999.

Here's another game that should be scratched - Konami GT - I can't get nothing to playback right! The game always crashes. Odd that I, the leader of that game, says something about it - but yes... I think that game should be scratched until something is done about it...

-- Gameboy9 (goldengameboy@yahoo.com), August 16, 1999.

I've come up with some conclusions with Battle FlipShot - I think two player games will always playback perfectly, but if you play against the computer - I think there's some random movement with the computer which throws the recordings off. Shame too... So yes - I say that game should also be scratched from competition.

-- Gameboy9 (goldengameboy@yahoo.com), August 16, 1999.

Is there a group, a police, so to speak, that is to go through and verify recordings? Way too many recordings show up as green on MARP, meaning nobody has taken the time to view them... Another question, unless I hear any complaints, I am going to compile a rule list on sports games so everyone can compete on a equal footing, and that there will be no more questions as to what is legal, and what isn't. I will take my list from game considerations, manufacturers considerations, and operator's considerations.

-- Chris Parsley (cparsley1@hotmail.com), August 16, 1999.

I don't think anyone needs to police the inp submisssions. If someone notices that a recording does not playback, they should ask to see if anyone else has a problem recording.

For instance, I recorded 14,000 on Frontline last night. It doesn't playback, I didnt have the time to try different ways of playgin it back, but I also could not play anyone elses recordings of that game also. Does frontline record properly?

If it doesn't, I don't feel comfortable uploading the inp file, unless the game was disabled from gettings points for the leaderboard.

-- Dave Kaupp (info@kaupp.cx), August 16, 1999.

As far as I was concerned, the idea of scores being unconfirmed is there was a group, perhaps only Zwaxy is the only one left of that group, that is to review recordings, and if they playback, then they were set to confirmed. It just seems as time drags on, more and more are unconfirmed, and less are confirmed scores.... Shortly, I will post the first sports rules here, as I haven't heard any complaints yet. You would be suprised how cooperative game companies are if you ask the right questions in the right ways...

-- Chris Parsley (cparsley1@hotmail.com), August 16, 1999.

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