Was wondering how long it would take before Y2K preparations ran afoul of our bloated bureauracracy.

This one sounds like it may go Ruby Ridge.

Pulled it from csy2k:

Island Officials May Try to Block Militia on Saturday

Emergency Strategy Meeting by Township Held

Echoes from Ruby Ridge and Waco heard

Bois Blanc Island, MI (August 12) - An emergency meeting of the Bois Blanc Township board was called today to plan a strategy to deal with the Northern Michigan Regional Militia. Graham Whipple, Sheriff of Bois Blanc Island attended.

What started as a show of support to a beleagured family may be taking on a more ominous and frightening spectre. The militia is determined to stand with Michael and Christine Stitt and their six children in opposition to a Township Board and the County that is waging a war of persecution against them. On Saturday, August 14, the militia will attempt to assemble on the Stitt's property. Last week, the commander, Norman Olson and chief of staff, Ray Southwell went to the island to measure the severity of the problem and the potential for confrontation. Olson said in a press release Thursday, "I can tell you that this situation is becoming frightenly like Waco and Ruby Ridge. We have a family being driven into the ground by a vindictive and hateful government body. The family is determined to stand their ground. They have no choice, no where to go, no one to help. The court and deceitful lawyers have forced this family into a corner. If they comply and dispose of all their animals and garden, they place their children at great risk. If they refuse to comply they will be arrested and jailed for contempt and possibly lose their children. They've asked me for help. I can't say no. The battlelines are forming and escalation may result in another armed standoff...this time with well trained militia defending a helpless family. I'm deeply troubled that this little matter might turn into another Waco or Ruby ridge. It starts like that, you know, and before we can stop it, it takes on its own energy. In the aftermath, we analyze where the mistakes were made and we vow to prevent it from happening again. Well, it is happening and I'm trying to stop it."

The problem has a simple solution, but the township board refuses to negotiate with Olson who offered to withdraw the militia if a 1-year variance or waver is granted to the Stitts to keep their animals and buildings and garden on their 37-acre property on Bois Blanc Island near Mackinaw. "Is it too much to ask that a frightened family be given one year to ride out Y2K? Is it too much to ask that the children be told they can stay and that mom and dad are not criminals? Is a township board so insensitive that it cannot understand that people are frightened about Y2K and the animals and garden are the means of preparation to survive?"

On Saturday, the militia will go to Bois Blanc Island. No one knows what to expect between now and October 7, the deadline imposed by the District Court of Mackinaw County. Olson said late Thursday night, "I pray that Waco and Ruby Ridge are far behind us, but I fear that cold unfeeling and corrupted government bureaucrats are everywhere. First it was Idaho, then Texas. Let the record show that I have tried to offer a fair and rational solution. Failing that, the next American nightmare may come to Michigan.

***************

Militia to Invade Bois Blanc Island?

Residents may get more than they bargained for by

ordering family off island.

Alanson, MI (August 12) - Four years ago, Mike and Chris Stitt moved to Bois Blanc Island. They were warmly welcomed by the township government then. But Mike and Chris are self-sufficient folks with a strong religious background. They wanted to get away from downstate. They needed to prepare for Y2K. Now the township wants them to leave. The reason? They dared to plant a garden, erect a barn and raise chickens, and emus, and goats to survive what they believe is God's coming judgment on America. They have 6 children, all living with them. The majority of neighbors support the Stitt family and find no fault with their garden or animals. In fact, they buy the eggs and homemade bread Chris provides. But the board members have labeled the Stitts as "too religious and odd." To rid themselves of Mike, Chris, and the children, they've refused to grant a variance. It seems zoning doesn't allow animals or a large garden on the Stitt's 37 acre piece of wilderness.

Money is also involved. The one-room school house had only the Stitt children as students. When Mike and Chris chose to educate them at home, the island lost $45,000 in school revenue.

The Stitt family has resolved to stay, even though the township refuses to give them the variance necessary to keep the garden and the animals. But the clock is ticking and the court has ordered them to dispose of animals, buildings, pens, and even the manure. If not, they face contempt charges, jail time, and a fine of $500 per day. Their property will be liened by the township.

Enter the militia. Last week, Norman Olson, Commander of the Northern Michigan Regional Militia, dressed in camouflage and driving a camouflaged truck visited the Stitts. Ray Southwell, his Chief of Staff went with. After discussing the hopelessness of a resolution, Mike offered to turn the property over to the militia as a training facility.

The Township attempted to have the Stitts physically removed by June of next year. Circuit Court Judge Nicholas Lambro said he could not force someone to leave but agreed in court that the Stitts apply all reasonable efforts to sell out. Mike and Chris don't want to leave and still have a great love for the island and majority of the people who live there. "It's just a handful of powerful people

who are being swayed by money and prejudice," Chris said. "We sacrificed all we had to get away from that. Zoning wasn't an issue

four years ago even when they knew what we had in mind. They still received us with open arms. We were celebrities with our team of oxen. Hundreds of people came to see us and our animals.

But that's all changed and the people who used to buy our eggs

now file suits against us. We've spent all we have to defend ourselves in court, but to no avail. There are powerful and corrupt interests on this island and now we face being bulldozed off our land. My children are frightened and uneasy. Winter is coming. We have no where else to go."

Olson plans to deploy the militia to the island on Saturday, August 14, to do site survey work and to show support for the beleagured family. He has also scheduled time to address the Township concerning the Stitt family. "A training facility on the island is possible if the township forces the Stitts off. We hope the township will make peace with Mike and Chris and provide them with a variance they need to keep their animals. It's live and let live as far as I can see. If the Stitts are forced to leave, they may dispose of the property in any way they may choose. After a few months of the militia, perhaps the people would welcome the Stitts back to their island home. As they say, the ball is in the Township's court. I hope there is compromise and reconciliation between the parties involved."

During his visit to the island, Olson tried to talk with Clover Schlund, Township Clerk, but she refused to talk with him. Later he called Bill Westcott, the Supervisor, but Westcott refused to discuss the matter and hung up the phone.

******************

Family's Y2K Preparations Judged Illegal -

Y2K Preparations Turn Into Nightmare-

Family with Children may lose everything

because of they've prepared too well.

Bois Blanc Island, MI (August 12) - Two years ago Mike and Chris Stitt got very serious about Y2K. They built a barn and bought animals. They planted a large garden for their 6 children. They have chickens, and emus, and goats and sell eggs. Now they are totally self-reliant and prepared to face a Y2K emergency on their remote island property in northern Lake Huron. But in preparing for the worst, they have brought the worst upon themselves. The township wants them to dispose of their animals, tear down the barn, burn or bury everything. They have less than 60 days. Zoning doesn't allow animals or gardening on the Stitt's 37 acre piece of wilderness property.

Bois Blanc Island sits halfway between the upper and lower peninsulas of Michigan, about 5 miles from Cheboygan. The 7 by 13 mile island is inhabited by less than 60 year around residents. In spite of the fact that the Stitts are gifted craftsmen, experienced with raising animals, vegetables, and children, the zoning prohibits agriculture. Oddly, neither the state nor the county has considered what to do when residents' precautions about Y2K violate zoning and other ordinances, but some citizens have already raised the question. Benjamin Thompson, Mackinaw County FEMA coordinator says that residents must comply with zoning and ordinances, Y2K preparation notwithstanding. Many people would disagree.

Norman Olson, Commander of the Northern Michigan Regional Militia, alerted Governor John Engler of this potential conflict more than a year ago. In a letter to the Governor, Olson warned of possible conflicts between existing laws and the critical nature of Y2K in Michigan. Issues brought to the Governor's attention included people who want to keep animals for food and keeping large quantities of fuels on residential property. But nothing has been done to provide relief for citizens.

Olson is now involved in negotiating a settlement between Mackinaw County, Bois Blanc Township, and the Stitt family. "This is sheer madness," Olson said in a press release from militia headquarters, "here the government is urging people to prepare for Y2K, but if they do, they will be fined and persecuted by petty bureaucrats and judges because of insane zoning restrictions. Whoever enforces zoning in the face of the coming crisis ought to be tarred and feathered and run out of town. Peoples' lives are in danger and the persecution of the Stitt family is a prime example of governmental abuse at its worst. If I must, I will stand in front of the county bulldozers with a weapon rather than have that family forced into the snow. And there are a few hundred who will probably stand with me! It's crazy to enforce zoning that prevents families from preparing for possible power and food shortages." The township's attorney Lyle Peck said in a letter to Olson, "There is nothing that prevents the people on the island from fishing should Y2K occur." Peck should know that ice piles more than 15-feet high around the island. Relying on fishing would mean starvation to a family of eight. "Apparently Peck thinks this is a joke..a game. This is no joke, I can assure him!" Olson says.

The Stitt family has resolved to stay and will not comply with the court's order to have their complete farm disposed of by October 7th, the court's imposed deadline. The clock is ticking and Mackinaw County has threatened to remove the barn and animals and family by court order, if necessary. Failing to meet the deadline will put the property in jeopardy. Fines and liens will be imposed. Mom and Dad will go to jail for contempt of court.

The judge and the Township have recommended that the Stitts sell the property and get out. Mike and Chris don't want to leave and still have a great love for the island and majority of the people who live there. "It's just a handful of powerful people who are being swayed by money and prejudice," Chris said. "We sacrificed all we had to get away from that. Zoning wasn't an issue when we came to the island. The people received us with open arms. But that's all changed and the people who used to buy our eggs and chickens now file suits against us. There are powerful and corrupt interests on this island. What can we do?"

Olson says that the militia will stand by the Stitts. "We are at a critical stage in preparing for what may be a great crisis in our land. To force a family off it's farm now is a criminal act. Zoning must give way when there is an emergency like Y2K involved. Give the Stitt family a zoning waver or variance for 1 year. By next summer, we'll know about Y2K. Enforce the zoning now and you'll have angry people from around the nation to contend with. The Stitt family has decided to stand and with God's help, we'll stand with them.

******************

Of course to continue with this theme of the opressive hand of King Georg....errrrr.....King William and Lady Reno:

RAID UNCOVERS INNOCENT Y2K STOCKPILE

ATF Stakes Out Home Where Storage Drums Delivered

Aug. 6, 1999

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The neighbors could see something was up.

There had been unmarked cars on both sides of the street

"clearly doing surveillance," one man said.

Indeed, an investigation had been in the works for weeks

since a tip came in that big containers were being delivered

to a house on a quiet street in the nation's capital. There

were worries about the makings of a bomb.

This morning at 7:30 the raid was on. The street was crowded

with agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms

(ATF), with local police and explosives experts, with State

Department officials.

And....

"We did not find sufficient material to warrant a further

investigation," said Brian Burns, a special agent with the

ATF.

They did find 30 empty 55-gallon plastic drums.

Residents said they intended to use the drums to store water

-- out of concern about shortages that might be caused by Year

2000 computer problems on Jan. 1

*****************

Don't know about the rest of ya, but screw the ordinances and zoning crap....especially if it interferes with my ability to survive.

So, who does this government look on as an enemy? Does the fevered-pitch of demanding tighter gun laws and eventual confiscations by political grandstanders making more insidious sense to you yet?

This nation went to war for independence over a 1/2 of ONE percent tax on tea.

Now, no one even bats an eyelash in the mainstream press over a family being tossed-out on their ass for all-of-a-sudden violations of zoning ordinances that will endanger their well-being.

My, how far we've fallen.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), August 13, 1999

Answers

A real steep Fall is coming.

-- h (h@h.h), August 13, 1999.

right you are INVAR start taking names and addresses of those in present power. They will have thier just due.

Bob P

sickened by it all

-- Bob P (rpilc99206@aol.com), August 13, 1999.

(1) I am glad that my home, bunker, and acre of steep land happens to be zoned agricultural...and NOBODY is going to object to my few chickens...

(2) I am saddened that the DWGIs are harassing those who simply want to prepare in peace... I am particularly offended that the Board found the family "too religious and too odd."

(3) I suspect that if the township board has made the above statement on public record, the family may have recourse in Federal court for discrimination. At the least, they could get a stay of any order until the Federal suit was settled (around 2002-2005, or even later, depending on whether the Federal courts expedite, and how badly they are jammed by Y2K suits...). In addition to a private Federal lawsuit against the board (jointly) and board members individually, they could also ask the Justice Department (aka Janet Reno) to look into the matter. At least, this could slow things down. All they need is 3-4 months...

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), August 14, 1999.

Just another reason to keep your plans to yourself. Hell, you don't need an acre of land to have chickens. There's some people here in town that take the cupboard doors off and use the cupboards for a chicken coop! Whatever works!

-- porchwaver (porchwaver@prochwaver.com), August 14, 1999.

Hmmm...stuck on an island with hostile people? Human nature being what it is, even if this family ends up saving their hides, these people are likely to remain hostile. Not a good situation no matter how you cut it.

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), August 14, 1999.

I would like to think that all of us here can show our support for this family by writing them, the board, the court, the governor, etc. Of course, we need to get addresses. Perhaps, someone in Michigan can do the research. I'd like to see us take action on this as soon as possible. If this goes to a shoot out, we will all have something to worry about.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), August 14, 1999.

Bois blanc Island = this generations Boston Tea Party.

The line in the sand is drawn.

Sovereign families across America are watching this one closely you can bet. Sovereign American families ,brothers and sisters If you are outraged at this action and want to voice your support send the michigan militia a post card or money to help that Stitt families legal defense fund, saying love means having to stand up for what is right. We support you. Demonstrate strenght through a massive peaceful sit in no guns this time. If they come with guns come with cameras documented it. In 24 hrs it will be around the nation and you will have 500, 000 + war vets from around the country convervege on that tiny island to remind washington that if they make war on a little american family that cant defend themselves against state sponsored tyranny there will be undesirable consequences. Its not a game any more. If they want to shred the consititution it will come with a price. Never underestimate the power of the free media on the internet. The whole world will be watching our Michigan fellow americans. Commit your plans to the Lord and you will succeed.

-- y2k aware mike (y2k aware mike @ conservation . com), August 14, 1999.

How does that saying go--"I love my country but I fear my government?" Lock and load and be ready to defend.

-- ~~~ (~~~~@~~~.com), August 14, 1999.

Amen Stan and Mike.

One exception though Mike, If you come with cameras to document another Ruby-Ridge seige....who's going to see it besides us nuts on the Internet?

Do you think for one second that the mainstream press will report this incident without sanitizing it for the propaganda machine to spin?

Most American dolts get their info from the big 5 news networks on TV..that's fine with them. Once the press gets ahold of this, you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be spun that this family and these Right Wing Wackos are foamenting insurrection against a local government because they don't want to adhere to the law. You will see the press whip up this nation into hating these helpless folks and these militia neighbors just as sure as they did the folks at Waco.

The reality is Mike, (and I am going to help them in the best way I can...through prayer...and alerting militia members I know that live in MI), there are too few of us, even on the net, that will be able to make a successful stand against the spin machine propagandists in the media.

You can bet though, that if it comes to a shootout...let it come. Those that are willing to stand and fight against a tyranny that has risen like a wolf among us...and die violently in the process, will join the ranks of those whom shed precious blood for the freedom we have. They will be true heroes.

If I must make that stand in my own encounters...then so be it.

Who are we to be any different than others who have died to make men free?

Give us Liberty...or give us death.

But we will fight for Liberty...not lie down for it as the rest of the nation has.

Yes...too few of us to fight whether with words or weapons. But glorious in the battle we have chosen.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), August 14, 1999.

Gotta agree Mike... "Boston Tea Party 99"

The Stitts' problems are the same concerns of MOST GI's.

These Greedy Power hungry beauracrats are totally blind, trying to get rid of the people and resources they're gonna desparately need in 5 months.

This has got to stop!

IMHO, this is THE rallying point for Y2k preparedness.

It's time to tap into the latent political power of the GI's.

Time is very short...it's time to polarize this group and other preparedness groups around the country into "One" entity.

If enough patriots do the right thing and rally behing the Stitts, this dispute can have a very positive outcome.

It's time to put an end to the "illussion" of a BITR...

The edge of the Cliff is just ahead.

-- Nailbender (Not_In_America@ohboy.net), August 14, 1999.

Thanks Invar for bringing this appalling state of affairs to our attention,

I was truly sickened when I watched the WACO documentary, i am truly sickened at the antics of thios current administration,

how can things get much worse?

don't answer, I think I know... won't be long now...

If we can get some addresses and e-mail id's of the town board let's all bombard them with whatever we cam muster!

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 14, 1999.

Broadcasting their E-mail here is a good place to start Andy, I game to help in what ever way I can. Lets give that family some hope.

-- y2k aware mike (y2k aware mike @ conservation . com), August 14, 1999.

i'd like to know if this story is true, also

i tried looking into it.....the Michiagan Militia page hasn't been updated in a long time.....so no news of this there

the Detroit Free Press had no mention of this story

the Detroit News DID have a story at ..... http://detnews.com/1999/metro/9903/ 11/03110103.htm ....about the school on Bois Blanc being in danger of being closed (and cited the fact that homeschooling of the few children.....two who were mentioned were from the Stitt family....was the reason the school was having problems keeping open......so there are a couple of kernals of truth in the story)

what i can't figure out is......why would a community of 48 people have it out for a family who wants to garden and raise animals on their 37 acre piece of property???

if this story is true......sure hope the Stitts have a better attitude about their neighbors than said neighbors do when Y2K rears it's ugly head

-- andrea (mebsmebs@hotmail.com), August 14, 1999.

Andrea,

Outstanding point. We do need to verify if the news story is true and if things have happened as described in the news story. Anybody working on this? Anyone live near enough to the Island to check the court records and interview the family?

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), August 14, 1999.

This story is circulating all around the internet. Cirdulation began by Norman Olson, Commander of the Northern Michigan Regional Militia e-mailing folks. Andrea was the only one to question the truth of it all.

Sometimes I wouldn't mind having a few laying hens (just to get fresh eggs), but I realize that my zoning doesn't allow this. These letters (called press releases in some places) have some inconsistencies. First off, these folks moved to Bois Blanc Island 4 years ago and stated that folks welcomed them with open arms. Presumably they had some chickens 4 years ago, because folks bought eggs from them. They may even have had a garden. 2 years ago they decided to turn their land into a farm (against zoning regulations.) There's talk of a LARGE garden now (how large...36 acres?), a barn, emus, goats, and oxen. They first state that the people bought their eggs, yet go on to state that now these people are filing suits against them. They didn't say just the board, they said the neighbors who used to buy their eggs. If one of your neighbors decided that they would weather Y2k by building a gas- station or some other non-residential enterprise on their land, would you be happy? Do my Y2k fears give me the right to have a cow in my backyard?

Too religious and odd? Now there's cause for a discrimination suit there IF IT'S TRUE, but is it? How does the teacher NOT stand to lose her salary if these folks move? What did she do for a living 4 years ago...before that one-room school-house acquired these 6 kids? Two of the kids go to school (per the press). I'd be interested in learning the ages of all 6. If there's a 5-month old and a 2-year old in the family, would you begin to question the full truth of this story?

This isn't about a judge ruling that a family is illegally preparing for Y2k. It's about a family that decided to disobey the law, and a local law at that. It's about a family that decided to turn their land over to the Northern Michigan Regional Militia for a training ground. Did the Militia pay for the land? Are the folks going to be able to live there once the Militia uses it for training? If any of these details are missing in the version INVAR posted, I can provide the original E-mails circulated by Olson, including phone numbers of the township members so you can call and complain.

I've heard of some families being allowed to have some chickens on their land simply for Y2k purposes, and I understand that some have even written books about raising rabbits for food in Y2k in apartments. 37 acres seems like a lot of land to me, but if the neighbors are complaining about the animals, it obviously isn't remote enough. They have to remove manure? Is that because the neighbors are down-wind? Is it because the drinking water for the area is becoming affected?

These folks have a good piece of land that isn't zoned for what they want and never was. They could sell it and find land that IS zoned for their farm, but they're simply choosing NOT TO. The township had the rules in place before they moved in, and if they give THESE folks a break, they could end up with anyone and everyone turning the land into farmland, which may be incompatible with the ecology of the area. They could end up with race-tracks, gas stations, convenience stores, strip-malls, and many other things because the law can't be bent for one without being bent for all.

-- Anita (spoonera@msn.com), August 14, 1999.

A group of farmers, merchants, and ordinary people like us defeated one the largest armies in the world so they could be free. Freedom isn't easy, it takes work,dedication to the cause, and something we don't have anymore...... the ability to think for ourselves.The "land of the free" should be just that .A land where everyone is free to choose their own destiny. A land where everyone, regardless of color,religoius convictions,sexual orientation,shoe size....etc. has the same opportunities, and personal freedoms as everyone else.If we could achieve that then we could call ourselves the land of the free.If we could get over our petty differences with each other and come together as one we would be a powerful group of people.But we continue to worry about Bobs skin color, and Carols girlfriend, and Mikes accent when we should be worrying about them taking away our rights and personal freedoms.One person willing to fight for a cause is noble, a group of people united is a force to be reckoned with.

-- (BigDog001@aol.com), August 14, 1999.

Anita is 100% right in what she's saying.Regarding this particular incident we don't know all the facts.My previous post was written more as a general statement than as a statement of support for this family. If what Invar implies is correct then we should be ashamed to allow this to quietly happen but until we know all the facts I think we should do a little investigating before flooding the town with letters,calls ans e-mails.

-- (BigDog001@aol.com), August 14, 1999.

Printed on several occasions in, a free, local, weekly distributed publication from Wellington, KS :

ATTORNEY GENERAL JANET RENO is reported to have defined who can be considered a RELIGIOUS CULTIST: "A cultist is one who has a strong belief in the Bible and the Second coming of Christ; who frequently attends Bible studies; who has a high level of financial giving to Christain cause; who HOME SCHOOLS their chilren; who has accumulated SURVIVAL FOOD and has a strong belief in THE SECOND AMENDMENT; and who distrusts GOVERNMENT. Any of these may qualify (a person as a cultist) but certainly more than one (of these) would cause us to look at this person as a threat, and his family as being in a risk situation THAT QUALIFIED FOR GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION." - Janet Reno in a 60 Minutes interview, 1994 - The McAlvany intelligence Advisor, 1/1/99

(the caps are mine)

For those of you who think distrust and hidden agendas have been created by Y2K, think again. For me, 'distrust' began in 1992. The motives behind the way Y2K has been ignored, downplayed and generally spun become clearer every single day. Wake up America. I was greatly inspired by the latest article in WorldnetDaily written by Alan Keyes. We're in really big trouble here and short of forming a united front, I don't see any way of avoiding it.....Y2K or NOT! It's beginning and we still have 5 months to go.

I also, would greatly appreciate some e-mail addresses, or a baby- sitter so that I could make a trip to MI!!!! lol, kinda.

Say Janet......wanna mud-wrestle????? Let me spit out my chaw of Skoal first, willya?

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 14, 1999.

My initial reaction when I first read the article was "why did they move to an area that wasn't zoned for farming etc?" They obviously planned on living in this manner when they moved. It seems odd they didn't check out zoning issues before they plopped down their money. There may be more to this story than we know, as suggested.

-- Moore Dinty moore (not@thistime.com), August 14, 1999.

A thread on the Egg Forum with phone #s:

Family persecuted for Y2K preperations

-- 37 acres (large@enough.for.zoo), August 14, 1999.

Another small newspaper article is at www.petoskeynews.com. Scroll down to Militia Warns of Incident like Waco.

-- LG (mimesis@webtv.net), August 14, 1999.

ATTORNEY GENERAL JANET RENO is reported to have defined who can be considered a RELIGIOUS CULTIST:

This is a well-known hoax. I wouldn't have too much trouble believing that Reno actually believes that, but as far as I know she has never said it in public.

-- Steve Heller (stheller@koyote.com), August 14, 1999.

I don't get what Invar & others are railing against. The zoning laws were in place prior to the purchase of the property, according to the articles posted on this thread. A variance was sought & denied. Time for those folks to either get in compliance or move.

This "whoa is me" crap doesn't wash, people. Were the laws ammended to specifically target this family? If so, shame on the local authorities. If not, shame on the family for crying the blues cause they aren't getting their way.

I do look forward to reading more on this issue.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@pop.shentel.net), August 14, 1999.

Militia warns of incident like Waco

By: Paul Wheatley

BOIS BLANC ISLAND  A zoning scuffle between township officials and a family preparing for Y2K mishaps is apparently turning into a dispute between the board and the Northern Michigan Regional Militia.

Using coin words such as Waco and Ruby Ridge  where violence erupted between government agents and gun-wielding citizens  regional militia leader Norm Olson is preparing to head over to the island tomorrow, fully equipped, to defend the Stitt family, and attend a chicken barbecue. They plan to leave, via ferry, from Cheboygan at 10:30 a.m. to head to the large island that neighbors Mackinac Island.

Mike and Chris Stitt moved there in 1996 to raise their six children in a Y2K safe environment. Their children, now ranging in age from four months to 15 years-old, were the only ones attending a one-room school house on the island. They started a farm, under what Chris said was the approval of township officials, to create their own self- sufficient environment.

For a while Chris Stitt said things were fine, people were buying her eggs, meat and produce  until they built a barn without a permit.

The Stitts claim a Michigan farm act allows them to construct buildings, such as a barn, without a permit.

However, legal action has been brought against the Stitts by the township, requiring them to tear down and remove all buildings on their property that do not meet township ordinances, except for their home, by Oct. 7.

In fact, a letter from the townships attorney claims the Stitts must pay the township a $500 fine, also by Oct. 7, for the violation or face a tax lien being placed on their property.

As far as their Y2K preparation goes, the statement reads: There is nothing that prevents the people on the island from fishing should Y2K occur.

The Stitts claim they are out of resources to fight the township, having gone through three years of legal proceedings.

My children are scared and were scared, said Chris.

She said her last resource was the militia.

Olson said the militia will arrive in full battle dress with everything we need with us at that time.

He said the only way to alter their action is for the board to meet and provide a one-year extension to their judgment or grant the Stitts a variance to farm.

We dont know what to expect tomorrow, but we do know yesterday there was an emergency meeting over in St. Ignace with the sheriff in attendance, Olson said.

Olson said he doesnt want a bloody resolution but that someone must face off against corrupt local governments.

Olson claims many board members are corrupt in some way.

The township clerk and the Mackinac County Police declined to comment. Other members of the board could not be reached.

-- Jim Morris (prism@bevcomm.net), August 14, 1999.

I agree that there IS alot more to this story. Shall we next discuss the Wilderness Act of 1964, or the Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976, or how about the more recent Endangered Species Act and the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts that have infringed on the private property rights of Americans, but have never really applied to the Federal Government or big businesses?

The Fifth Amendment states, "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury... nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb, nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life liberty or PROPERTY, without due process of law, nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation."

Funny how thousands of farmers and ranchers have been allowed to have *their* property so severely restricted that they're unable to make a living from it.....their own land.....all in the guise of public interest, forced upon them by the Federal Government and the special interest groups that line their pockets! To hell with the Constitution, huh?

How many RABBITS will it take to feed a family of 8? Do rabbits poop also? What the heck is the 37 acres supposed to be used for? A large lawn? When will enough be enough? I suppose that depends upon whether or not one is a Patriot or a Sheep.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 14, 1999.

Contacts:

Norm Olson

Bill Westcott, Township Supervisor 231-634-7372

Clover Schlund, Clerk (the leader of the pack, also the next door neighbor to the Stitts. Can't stand the Stitts and their animals as neighbors. Uses position as Clerk to foment persecution of them) 231- 634-7500

Gary Wagner, Trustee 231-634-7240

David Rittinger, Zoning Inspector 231-634-7260

Cheryl Stevenson, Treasurer 231-634-7200

Lani White, Trustee (who is also the teacher who stands to lose her salary because the children were withdrawn from the school) 231-634- 7440

-- Jim Morris (prism@bevcomm.net), August 14, 1999.

Sorry about that. Here is Norm Olson's email addy:

Norm Olson: mailto:normolson@northlink.net

-- Jim Morris (prism@bevcomm.net), August 14, 1999.

Calls are great but should not be threatening or it is likely to make the matter worse. Remember, these people want to stay there and have to live with their neighbors for years to come even if they "win". Any written addresses or fax numbers?

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), August 14, 1999.

Now, for all of you that want to know the mentality of the small Island population, just read an issue of the local "Association" newsletter - "The Tatler". The name of the publication gives you a hint.

Below is just one of their issues. It shows a "club" mentality with an obvious focus on their school and the desire to focus on building it - with the addition of other children. Perhaps, the ones that are homeschooled would do? Nothing like being FORCED to comply with a group of small minded, small town bureaucrat wanna'be's.

[ Up ] [ Home ] BOB-LO TATLER Newsletter of the Bois Blanc Island Association founded 1891 no. 4 September 1998 "All the news and gossip, supplied by readers, fit to print" Presidents Corner by Curt Van Voorhees On August 1, at its annual meeting, the members of the Bois Blanc Island Association unanimously passed a new set of by-laws that comes closer to making the Association an all-Island organization. The new Board consists of eleven members, three from and elected by the west end, east end, and the Pines, and two who are official residents of the Island, thus reasonably assuring a truly representative organization. The mission of the newly-defined BBIA is "to continually work to make Bois Blanc Island a better, safer place to live and vacation." The Board and members of BBIA in attendance at the meeting proposed and prioritized goals and tasks for the next two years. Highest priorities were assigned to emergency fire and medical help, a safe and efficient boat ramp, recycling, cooperation with the Fly-In, and activities for the Islandincluding the annual meeting day. If you have additional suggestions for Board consideration, please send them to me or the appropriate Goal Chairperson. My hopes for a truly representative, action-oriented Association Board were exceeded beyond even my high expectations. The West End team was productive, and the East End team was not far behind. Doris Sprentall and Judy Munro (along with their committee members and, really, the whole West End crew) achieved near-miracles in emergency medical and fire servicesthe actual miracles come next year. They taught CPR, obtained state-of-the-art equipment, and helped the East End team better define their needs and actions. The West End gets the `98 Presidents Cup for Outstanding Association Achievement. The East End team made strides in emergency fire and medical services, and initiated a road clean-up program. All three areas are working to locate precisely cottage sites, and to identify gas, electrical, and other dangerous item locations at each site so that fire and medical help can get to the location sooner and be more efficient when they arrive. Were all proud of you teams; keep up the great work! The Association has been asked to involve itself to a greater extent in the 4th of July Fly-In. We feel honored to be included, and will make every effort to be of help in this exciting event. Members, and all Island visitors and residents, should become involved in this great annual get-together. Our thanks go to Gary and Gail Wagner, the originators of this super Island event, who continue to express their hope that the Fly-In will help to bring Island people together. Send your suggestions for BBIA participation and/or your offers to help to Warren VanDerbeck, BBIA Fly-In Coordination chair, Pointe aux Pins, MI 49775-0802 (phone 634-7438). The new by-laws recognize that the number of people who are on Bois Blanc for both long and short stays has been increasing rapidly and will increase at an even greater rate in the future. These increases put a heavy strain on both formal (Township) and informal (this Association) services, and create a need for better communication in decisions relating to the inevitable changes which must ultimately be made. The more help the informal system can provide, the better the outcome of formal decisions. Join BBIA now, have your voice heard, and help effect change in a positive way. Send your new or renewal dues to Marje Williams (see the end of this issue). You will immediately (Bob-Lo time) receive issues of this Bob-Lo Tatler. Also feel free to send information for future issues to the Tatlers editor (address below). Have a wonderful year, keep in touch, and (re-)join the Association now. And dont forget to write Charles Wooley (see next article) and tell him how much our Island needs a safe boat-launching ramp. Boat Launch Ramp Richard Ziehmer reported to the annual meeting that an application to the Michigan Waterways Commission for an application to get permission to build a boat launching facility, was unsuccessful. Curt Van Voorhees, on behalf of the Association, wrote a letter August 5 to Charles Wooley asking for reconsideration. This was in addition to a similar letter written Wooley August 1 by the BBI Harbor Commission (Graham Whipple, chair; Edgar Arnett, co-chair; Richard Ziehmer, secretary; Joseph Schlund and Deborah Raymond, commissioners). Letters from Tatler readers would really help! The number of letters is important. Possible content: "Please reconsider your objections to the Bois Blanc Island launch-ramp and parking lot project. As a [permanent] [frequent] [summer] resident, I [we] assure that there is a great need for this facility." Address: Charles Wooley, Field Supervisor, Fish and Wildlife Service, 2651 Coolidge Rd., East Lansing, MI 48823. Association News Duly elected officers, new and continuing, are now Curt Van Voorhees, president; Doris Sprentall, vice-president; Kathy Lamb, secretary; Marje Williams, treasurer. New and continuing members of the Board of Trustees are Marje Williams, Suzanne Bryce, and Warren VanDerbeck (representing the east end), Doris Sprentall, Dan Struble, and Glenn Munro (west end), and Kathy Lamb, Bruce McAfee, and Mark Landschultz (Pines). At the Board meeting August 6, the following goals (with those responsible for coordinating and reporting to the Board) were set: Emergency medical and fire (Glenn Munro; Don and Doris Sprentall for the west end, VanDerbeck, east end, and McAfee, Pines) Boat ramps (Landschulz) Recycling (Williams) Signs and calendar (Bryce) Bob-Lo Tatler (Lamb) Toll-free e-mail server (Struble) Nature walks (McAfee) Association dock (Van Voorhees) Stump dump (VanDerbeck) Art show (Sprentall) Speaker series (to be coordinated with the BBI Historical Society; Van Voorhees) Square dance (Bryce) Fly-In (cooperation with the Fire Department; VanDerbeck, with McAfee) Next years program (Van Voorhees, with Peccon) Fireworks This year the fireworks were launched from Jim Nagy's property, where they were seen from both county and Association docks. In the late afternoon hotdogs and beverages, donated by the Township Fire Department, were served in front of the Historical Society museum, and in the evening ice cream and pop, donated by Hawk's Landing, were available at the county dock. Members of the Wybranowski family, of the west end, provided music. The Board decided that there will be no fireworks next year, due to the expense, paperwork, and great amount of volunteer time needed to make arrangements. The general gathering will continue, however, with ice cream and other goodies, open to all, on the first Saturday of August (next year, the 7th), and arrangements are being made for special music and/or dance. Contact Curt Van Voorhees (on the Island until October 1) with your creative ideas. School Recap from remarks to the annual meeting by Mike White Financial. This past year the school lost $3288, a lot less than predicted last year. The reason was the addition of two more students. I calculated the break-even point this past year was 5.2 pupils. We were allowed a count of 4.6. The end-of-year fund balance was $45,700. To operate the school properly, 6 pupils are needed. The budget for the upcoming year is based on a count of 5; we will lose about $2000. The year after next, the district will be obliged to pay for the teaching of 3 students in high school, in Cheboygan, which will increase expenses by about $18,000. Future. There are only two ways to increase general fund revenue: to increase pupil-count, or increase contributions to the general fund of the school. With pupil count and contributions staying as they are, my guess is that the school will make it through 1999-2000. It may be possible to get a loan against local tax revenue to make it through the following year, 2000-01. That vote comes up next year; if it is voted down there will be no school in September 1999. Correction from past reports. When the original pupil allowance was calculated, the district had to submit financial data to the state. Even though the district asked for help at the time, it did not report some revenues received and fund balance spent. This created an allowance close to $2000 less per pupil than it was supposed to be. This error added up to a loss in revenue of about $24,000 so far. The state has a law that will not allow the allowance to be corrected. For about two years, since the error was discovered, I have been trying to get the legislature to put language in the School Aid Act to correct this oversight. Correcting the pupil allowance would place the school on an equal footing with the rest of the schools in the state. So far, I have persuaded the Department of Education to verify that mistakes were made. Senator North's office has taken some interest in the matter. One voice in Lansing, however, is not very loud, and without a loud voice I predict that even if wording is included in the upcoming version of the School Aid Bill, our re-elected Governor will veto it, as he has vetoed the creation of a minimum pupil count. Please comment; I can be reached at 634-7440 or . Annual Meeting based on notes kindly taken by Beth Van Voorhees The proposed revision of the bylaws was approved. Some changes: representatives on the Board of 3 each from the west end, east end, and Pines, plus 2 chosen from permanent Island residents. Township. Curt Van Voorhees reported for Bill Westcott (who couldnt attend) on 3 ballot issues on the August 4 ballot: fire, 4 mills to 2 mills (subsequently passed); law, to begin one year later, 3 mills to 2 mills (failed); dock, 2 mills (passed). Law. Graham Whipple, deputy sheriff, said the 25 m.p.h. limit is enforced on all Island roads. ATVs must have only one person each, with a helmet. He and the Fire Department work together to provide emergency service. There are three basic phone numbers: general, 911 (stay on the line to describe the problem); fire, 634-7222; deputy sheriff, 634-7354. West end. Doris Sprentall and Glenn Munro described medical response and fire response committees, needed to provide temporary response until people and equipment can arrive from the Pines. The medical committee has been provided training by Doris in first-aid and CPR, and has a big-time first-aid kit, including a defibrillator. The fire committee now has a wagon/trailer with a pump and 400 feet of hose, enough to reach the lake from beach cottages. This committee is in the process of organizing a phone chain for emergency response, and a site survey (names of cottage owners, locations of flammables such as propane tanks and entrance/exits, stairways, &c.). East end. Warren VanDerbeck reported; Janet Weber is head of the health committee (also see following article). Rick Fischer, head of the fire & safety committee, has become familiar with the setup on the west end. In contrast, east-end cottages are in subdivisions, and not typically at the waterfront, so a 400-foot hose would not be as helpful. His committee is open for ideas. Pines. Kathy Lamb reported on the square dances (see separate article, below). East End Report by Janet Weber An initial meeting of east end residents to discuss health and safety concerns, Friday evening, July 24, was attended by no fewer than 23 people. Ruth Rowell and I presented some ideas of equipment that might be purchased in the interest of self-help until better-prepared people arrive: a portable water pump to fight a fire within 250 feet of the lake, a dry hydrant, and a new "user-friendly" automated external defibrillator. Bill Rutledge reviewed some of the legal liability aspects of these approaches. Other ideas expressed: 1) keep yourself and your family well and safe, 2) investigate the possibility of installing emergency phones at particular locations along the road, 3) query fire department officials about their recommendations for self-help equipment to be used before the professionals arrive, 4) set up sheds at five or six locations to house basic firefighting and first-aid equipment. Historical Society sent by Janet Weber and Mary Lee Turner Bill Rutledge was newly elected president of the Bois Blanc Island Historical Society (succeeding Vi Card) at its meeting August 5, and Carol Church secretary. Continuing are Jinny Purdy as vice-president and Mary Lee Turner, treasurer. Bill promises to arrange one or two visiting speakers, to talk about the region, in conjunction with the Association. Plans for signs marking historical Island sites, along with a historical map. The Township Library, established last year, enjoyed its first full year of operation, and perhaps next year will feature a story hour for children. The first meeting of next year is planned for Wednesday, June 30, to which any interested persons are invited. Volunteers are needed for various short-term projects; contact Bill on the Island, or at home: 20097 E. Ballantyne Court, Grosse Pointe Woods, MI 48236; phone 313/881-6499. "Memory Night" was held at the Coast Guard Chapel on Saturday, August 8, with about 40 attending. The featured speaker was Mike White, who reported on his discoveries on the Island, and in state and national archives. Marie (Babcock) Mangiapane and Jim Vosper shared some of their educational experiences, and others contributed memories of Ye Olde Island as well. The BBIHS still welcomes new and renewal memberships: single $8, family $15, friend $25, patron $50, benefactor $100. Treasurer: Mary Lee Turner, HCR 01, Box 285, Bois Blanc Island, MI 49775-9809. Square Dances by Sue Ellen (Landschulz) Kern On behalf of all who enjoyed this years square dance season, and the Association, Id like to thank Audrey Gahn, our caller, the Church of the Transfiguration and Hoover Community Building for use of the facility, the Coast Guard Chapel for financial support, and Jeff and Sheila Godbold of Hawks Landing for donating sodas. And the musicians who volunteered to play: Al White, Rich Goodin, Earl Westcott, Jerry Brinker, Ann (Landschulz) Simpson, Mike Gahn, Danny Johnston, Joe White, Clover Schlund, Pat Sharpe, and Tom Babcock (who called a few sets during the last dance, August 12). I also thank Meghan Sims, Bob Maynard, Katy Feeley, and Taylor Urbany for helping with soda sales, and Peggy Feeley for being there every week to help clean up and unofficially watch children (most of who are related to me!). Audreys plan to call a few all-adult sets during the last dance this year was a big success tooso those of you who thought the dances were just for kids, be forewarned! We look forward to another great season in `99. Thanks again to all. Fly-In by Gail & Gary Wagner, via Dave Rittinger In the last issue it was stated that the Fire Department paid for a chainsaw from the proceeds from the Fun Day. We also purchased communication equipment-pagers and flood lights that can be used at night and a fire-scene. At this years Fly-In: Hoffmans Air Service gave 182 rides For the first time we had live entertainment, which was great, and we plan to have more in the future There were 38 walkers/bikers/runners The flea market grows every year, with lots of great bargains We served more dinners than last year We sold all T-shirts We are planning more and new games next year We need more crafters to set up Every year we have a T-shirt design logo contest; the deadline is May 1, and the maximum size is 12 inches square. Mail your design to Debbie Raymond, 124 S. Franklin, Chagrin Falls, OH 44022, or to the Township Hall, HCR-01, Box 636, Pointe aux Pins, MI 49775-9809, or fax to 616/634-7021. This years Fun Day was the best yet. We provided free hotdogs (over 200) and drinks on Fireworks Day, August 1. We wish to thank the many volunteers who helped make everything work so well. Book Discussions The Island book discussion group begun by Chris McAfee had a wonderful third year. Mary Lee Turner led a discussion of Charles Fraziers Cold Mountain, hosted by Suzie Bryce; Chris led it for Frank McCourts Angelas Ashes, and Bill Rutledge for Stephen Ambroses Undaunted Courage. Next years books: Snow in August, by Pete Hamill (set in post-war Brooklyn, it is the story of the unlikely friendship of a young Catholic boy and an old orthodox Jew). Iola Fullers local classic The Loon Feather (about an Indian girl on Mackinac Island during its heyday as the fur-trading center of the Great Lakes). Healing the Heart, by Deepak Chopra (true case studies of people who have overcome emotional problems). All are welcome to read these over the winter, and participate next summer. Bits & Bytes On 4 August 1968, Phil Nancarrow, then a deacon and student in seminary, performed his first baptism, of Henry Lewis ("Hank") Caulkins III, the son of Mick (II) and Wendy, at the Church of the Transfiguration. Thirty years later, almost to the day, 3 August 1998, Phil baptized Courtney K. Caulkins, the daughter of Hank and Kimberly Crest Caulkins. Courtney was born 22 August 1997. Another new Islander is Maxwell Cole Blome, born this past June 8 in Evanston, the son of Erik and Charlotte Jones Blome. Beaming grandparents are Don and Phyllis Blome, in the "Wickieup" (Pines). Erik, by the way, and his statue of Martin Luther King, Jr. installed in downtown Milwaukee are highlighted in an article in the August Rotarian. New storm windows and shashes on the south side of the school are contributions (including installation) by Ray Dalby and Floyd Beauchamps. The state Department of Natural Resources (DNR) introduced 26 turkeys to the Island in March; a dozen chicks have been seen in several locations, including the airport. The new DNR officer in charge of the Island: Andrea Erratt, of Gaylord. "Spike," the deer, identified by orange ear-tags, introduced by the DNR for genetic diversity, is doing well. (We hope nobody will mistakenly shoot it during deer season.) There is an ample (more than ample, according to some) supply of Canadian geese, seen in various locations. One walleye pike has been known to be caught at Lake Mary, and a 3-pound smallmouth bass at Twin. Have you seen the new flagpole in front of the Post Office? Made by Al White and Josh Feeley, the pole came from a tree on the Island. Bill Rutledge and Janet Weber toured Italy and Sicily for two weeks this past May and June, and showed slides at the Coast Guard Chapel August 4. Great fun was had by the 32 who attended. Bob Moore (east end) is now available summers on the Island for plumbing and heating work; his phone is 634-7015. (During the winter he is in Cheboygan, 627-8724). Bob is among those building the new Township Hall now going up (with building-parts from Morton Buildings, near Toledo). Many have commented that the roads are in the best condition they've been in recent memory. Joe Schlund is responsible, and is especially quick to scrape after a rain. Perhaps this is not generally known, but the Association pays insurance for its dock in the Pines each year. It is used as a gathering center for kids, especially for swimming, and a place for temporarily tying up boats. Tom Babcock has just moved back to his place on Lake Thompson as a full-time resident. (Lucky guy.) The township occasionally gets a car cruncher, for disposal of derelict cars (derelict people are spared). For further information, contact Bill Westcott. (Better than the old method: dragging a car into the woods to rust away . . . slowly.) The Fly-In on July 4 generated the goodly sum of about $8000 for the Fire Department! A good cause. All of us appreciate the time spent by fire volunteers in training and responding to calls. Some were concerned about the dry conditions in early August; finally rains reappeared on the 6th. The Kristen D had a cocktail cruise July 4, for viewing the fireworks of Cheboygan and the Mackinac Bridge area. Presumably there will be another cruise next year as well. Ed Sandell pointed out, at the memorial service, that Morgan Poole was the major force behind the saving of the virgin forest area south of Lighthouse Point. Those tall trees are a rarity in the region, and even the country. A suggestion has been heard that it would be useful if more cottages had a sign with the family name, even in addition to a cottage name. There is a map with family names prepared in the 50s for the Pines area, but it is out of date. Nature walks, organized by the fearless trailbreaker Bruce McAfee, are planned next summer on Sunday July 4, Saturday August 7, and Wednesday August 11. Details as to where he wants to lose us in the woods in a future issue. Query: how many stop signs are on the Island? Dave Rittinger reports that Pappas Restaurant in Cheboygan caught fire August 18, and three fire vehicles and nine firefighters from the Island went over on the Kristen D, and helped put it out that evening. Nonetheless, the restaurant was destroyed, and adjacent buildings, including Reuschs Jewelry Store, damaged. Sad news: due to high winds and waves, Phyllis Horn, from Kane, Pennsylvania, drowned at Snow Beach on Sunday, August 16, while swimming with her daughter. She was the wife of Keith Horn, the sister-in-law of Carl and Ann Horn (west end) and Bill and Jane Horn (east end). The service was at the Coast Guard Chapel the following Wednesday, and burial was at the Island cemetery. Send Stuff for Next Issue Ye Faithful Editor apparently passed the test of the first years issuesbut any success is really due to those who sent items "fit to print." Future issues are planned for February (deadline: January 15) and May (deadline: April 15). Send to Bunker Clark, 1618 Cypress Point Dr., Lawrence, KS 66047-1721; phone 785/842-6787; e-mail . Photos or drawings of Island scenes are also welcome; copies will be returned. (There would have been one in this issue, but overwhelming amount of news intervened.) The Association now has some 100 members; last year Joyce Peccon has printed as many as double that, in order to make available in some of the Island gathering places. Joyce continues to print and mail out the Tatlerat her own expense! Pay Up! Do you want to continue receiving the Bob-Lo Tatler? Make sure your Association dues are paid. They are due each July 1 for the following year. If you see a "6/99" on your mailing label, your dues are paid through next June; if not, send money now! Rates: $10 individual, $50 family, $100 patron. Make checks payable to Bois Blanc Island Association, and send to Marje Williams, 6981 Riverside Dr., Mt. Pleasant, MI 48858. Who Are We? Those paid up, through August 20 (F = family, P = patron): Marilyn Anderson, Sally (Johnson) Baker, John & Janet Barnfather, Robert Branch, Phyllis Brown, James & Suzanne Bryce, Linda Campbell, Don & Donna Sue Card (F), Viola Card (F), Mick & Wendy Caulkins (F), Janet Change, Morey & Carol Church, Bunker Clark, John & Katheryn Daily, Raymond Dalby, Joan Davis, Ann Donaldson (F), Martie & Tony Ehinger, David & Suzanne Engemann, Dennis Farrington, Rick Fischer, Marjorie Gask, Jeff & Sheila Godbold (P), Winifred Hamilton, Jewel Hargeaves, Ann & Michael Harrington, Ann & Carl Horn, Mel Johnson, Steve & Mary Roma Johnson (F), Sue Ellen (Landschulz) Kern, Kent & Barb Krantz, Rex and Katherine Lamb (P), Mark & Kathy Landschulz (F), Paul & Mary Ellen Landschulz (F), Bonnie Larson, Art & Bette Lennox, Bruce Leonard, David Leonard, Michael Leppen (P), Bruce & Christine McAfee, Ellen McGuire, Orville & Mary McLaury, Ron & Chip Mars, Sharon Mitchell, Marilyn & Joel Monson (F), Glenn & Judith Munro, Joyce & Michael Peccon (F), Hazel Pickles, Ralph & Jinny Purdy (F), Dale & Patti Quattrin, Dave & Mary Rittinger (F), Ruth Rowell, Edward Sandell, Horatio (Al) & Barbara (Bobbie) Shannon, Sandy & Kathryn Shannon, Ray & Jayni Sims (F), Alice Smith, Gordon Sperry (P), Sally Sperry, Donald & Doris Sprentall (F), Carolyn Spickenagel, Dan Struble, Rhea Louise Sullivan, Sandra Tillotson-Wybranowski (F), Phyllis Turner, Richard & Mary Lee Turner, DeLane & Warren VanDerbeck, Curt & Beth Van Voorhees, Gail & Gary Wagner, Richard Warner, Janet Weber & Bill Rutledge, George Whinnery, Graham & Jeanette Whipple, Lani & Mike White, Tom & Marje Williams, Richard & Gretchen Ziehmer.

-- Mr. Kennedy (MrK@home.today), August 14, 1999.

I am a Real Estate broker - Land Developer in Northern Michigan. In l997 a big change in real estate zoning laws was passed. I think if the Stitts got a good real estate attorney they might have a leg to stand on. I do know since these laws passed in l997 I do have to have on every contract the following statement: This property may be located within the vicinity of farmland or a farm operation. Generally accepted agricultural & management practices which may generate noise, dust, odors and other associated conditions may be used & are protected by the MICHIGAN RIGHT TO FARM ACT.

-- LG (mimesis@webtv.net), August 14, 1999.

Whooops, sorry 'bout that. BLOCKQUOTE didn't hold the format.

In another issue of the "Tatler", they mentioned farming......

Annual Meeting Last Year

The above, on the school situation, was certainly the most complicated; hence the request by Ye Editor to Mike to write it up. Other presentations, in less detail:

Bill Westcott reported on the township (for which he is supervisor). The airport runway on the west side was recleared through a 50/50 grant, and the townships share was paid by cutting 50-60 trees for lumber. The annual Fly-In cleared $8766; the fire department got a pumper, a 4-wheel-drive vehicle, and pump for brush fires. The hydrant at the main dock now works year-round. Property taxes continue to climbwaterfront property now sells at $500/foot, and inland goes for $1000/acre. Farming is legal on the Island, but building without a permit is not. Bill also discussed attempts to recall him.

Graham Whipple reported that there had been four accidents. Traffic problems in the Pines are due to the concentration of people, houses, and (especially) children. The speed limit is 25 mph for the whole Island. Four-wheel vehicles are legal on the roads, but the driver must wear a helmet, be 16 or older, and cannot carry passengers.

Other issues of the "Tatler" can be found on:http://falcon .cc.ukans.edu/~bclark/boisblanc.html

-- Mr. K (Mr.K@home.today), August 14, 1999.

say, how about if i purchase the property next to you and build a "few" buildings (w/o a permit), maybe bring in some animals, perhaps start a small hog farm to make ends meet and maybe bury some secondhand barrels I purchased real cheap and fill them with fuel (for this y2k thing) don't worry, I won't get them to close to your water supply. Jeez, you people are as much of the problem as the gov't.

-- a little perspective on (this@home.com), August 14, 1999.

Will continue, I would not pay 15 CENTS to see that butt-ugly Janet Reno mudwrestle, nor do anything else that a cultured lady would do. I am not sure that Reno is even a woman at all! Gawd, if it looks like an butt-ugly man, if it walks like a butt-ugly man, if it is about the size and shape of butt-ugly man, then it probably is a butt-ugly man!!!!

This actually is 10 TIMES WORSE than Ruby Ridge or Waco, because of what is at stake for these people, who even have agreed to comply if given a measley extenstion to October of next year! Mark my words, these people are being used as an example, a litmus test of what innocent citizens will take and what the Govt can get away with.

Andrea: Do you like to mudwrestle?

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), August 14, 1999.

Having been on an emu "round-up" or two, they could probably pay for their attorneys by selling tickets to watch TPTB round up their emu - just for the comedy of it all!

In all seriousness, 37 acres would seem to me to be more than enough land for what these people are doing. Kinda makes you wonder what the island township people want to use the land that the Stitts own for.

-- Valkyrie (anon@please.net), August 14, 1999.

>>>"I don't get what Invar & others are railing against. The zoning laws were in place prior to the purchase of the property, according to the articles posted on this thread. A variance was sought & denied. Time for those folks to either get in compliance or move.

This "whoa is me" crap doesn't wash, people. Were the laws ammended to specifically target this family? If so, shame on the local authorities. If not, shame on the family for crying the blues cause they aren't getting their way. "<<<

Hey Bingo,

According to the story (and I wasn't there so I can't confirm it), the Stitts had been raising their garden and animals for the last few years without problem. They were even selling eggs to their town neighbors!

Things went South after apparently the Stitts pulled their kids out of the only school on the island, and began to homeschool them....causing a financial loss to the island township.

Sounds like retribution to me pal.

And I don't give a rat's ass if they violate a petty zoning law ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY! I suppose they should starve to death on the island if Y2K goes 5+ (Which would probably become a 9 on an isolated island) just to uphold a bullshit zoning restriction for whatever ridiculous reason.

All of the recent property and land laws the government both local and federal have passed, violate EVERY principle found in our Constitution.

They are illegal. They are unConstitutional.

This is the Stitts' private land, I just want to know WHY they were denied a variance when they asked for one. The town board aint sayin' are they?

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), August 14, 1999.

Oh, I wouldn't charge anything King, it would be free of charge! (bet I could make up for a butt-ugly opponent, ha)

I'm in complete agreement on your assessment that this problem is about to set a precedent for how the population will react to people attempting to take responsibility for themselves and their families in the face of a potential crisis, as well as what message government will send about this. "Prepare but not too much"? "Prepare ONLY if you meet government criteria for appropriate political views"?

Who said they had toxic chemicals buried, 'perspective'? How do you know they didn't obtain permits to build? Even if they didn't, would that be grounds for eviction? Forceable sale? Having your children removed from your care? Making things up as we go? If you owned land alongside of someone's 37 acres, would you honestly expect them to behave within the context of a suburb? Apparently 'farming' is legal. Perhaps you should reconsider living in a rural area. Pot-bellied pigs are considered 'pets' within many city limits. If you have something against animals, consider living somewhere without neighbors. If these folks aren't properly caring for their animals, that's another thing, if they are and farming isn't against the law, they have rights as well as you do, to use their *37* acres (that's a fair sized piece of real-estaste) as they see fit!

If our government is willing to allow a President to commit perjury and accept campaign contributions from other governments, create the theft of our military secrets by said contributor, etc.....I think these people can be allowed to use their property at their own discretion in a rural setting under the circumstances. What's next, perspective? Are you going to begin turning in gun collectors? How do you know what YOUR neighbors have stored in their garages and basements? Should the government begin conducting searches? The hospital my husband works for is not allowed to store fuel for their generator. Under the circumstances this could be considered a very stupid act if the City looses power! If nothing else, the CITY should be storing fuel for those not allowed to. Too bad the City "does not forsee any problems". Apparently, this family has never attempted to hide their actions. Did they 'sneak' a barn and some out-buildings up overnight, while everyone slept? Something smells VERY, rotten here...

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 14, 1999.

The King of Hate said:"Will continue, I would not pay 15 CENTS to see that butt-ugly Janet Reno mudwrestle, nor do anything else that a cultured lady would do. I am not sure that Reno is even a woman at all! Gawd, if it looks like an butt-ugly man,if it walks like a butt-ugly man, if it is about the size and shape of butt-ugly man, then it probably is a butt-ugly man!!!!"

Is this now the extent of the white-wing Tinfoil polemic? Few Pollies will be surprised...

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), August 14, 1999.

If anyone has any news on this, please post it. I would like to keep informed about this event and I *know* it won't be on the national news.

Can the forum moderators keep bumping this to the top of the page for a couple of days??

If this does escalate, we need to support these people no matter what.

-- Brent James Bushardt (brentj@webt.com), August 14, 1999.

On Friday, June 18, 1999 at the Mackinac County Courthouse, Honorable Hicolas J. Lambros found Michael and Christine Stitt in violation of the Bois Blanc Township Zoning Ordinance and the Michican Construction Code regarding certain structures upon their property. The Township of Bois Blanc had brought legal action against the Stitts and a trial was held on June 18, 1999 which ordered them to do the following by October 7, 1999:

[1] pay a $500.00 fine to the Township, [2] obtain permits and tear down each and every single structure on their property (except their home), [3] remove, burn, or bury the debris including foods, feeds, manure, and veternary supplies, slaughtering tools, etc. and obtain appropriate permits for such, [4] obtain permits and remove or dispose of all animals (except 3 dogs and 3 cats), etcetera. All this at the sole expense of Michael and Christine Stitt. The court's cause for the removal, disposal, destruction, burning, and/or burial of property is cited as being in the interest of the public safety of the Bois Blanc Township.

The above is my summary of the Stipulation and Order for Settlement, File No. 96-5175, State of Michigan, in the Circuit Court for the County of Mackinac. Mrs. Christine Stitt faxed me a copy of the order this morning on August 14, 1999.

In my telephone interview with Mrs. Christine Stitt, she explained that they had made their intentions to farm known to the township and the township had initially welcomed the Stitt family to Bois Blanc. According to Christine, problems began when the Stitt family erected a barn without a permit. Michael and Christine Stitt believed that Michigan law did not require them to have a permit, however, Michael Stitt was arrested for failure to build without a permit and charges of child abuse were filed against Christine Stitt. She says they paid over $25,000 in legal expenses to have their day in court, but the Honorable Nicholas J. Lambros would not hear or accept testimony and counter arguments from Michael and Christine Stitt. A one year variance or any other arrangement was simply out of the question.

Again, according to Christine Stitt, they had listed their Bois Blanc property for sale with Pinkston Properties, but have had no offers to buy. They have also sought out other properties, but are unable to buy another property until they can sell their Bois Blanc property. With approximately two years of Y2K preparations for their family and also for some of their Bois Blanc neighbors. They are also not the only ones practicing faming at Bois Blanc. One antagonistic neighbor produces maple syrup and has chickens (bought from the Stitt family).

The Stitt family includes Michael and Christine Stitt and their six children: Kristin (18), Chad (14), Miranda (6), Skeeter (5), Skipper (3), and Ruthan (9 months). Neither Michael nor Christine were members of the Michigan Militia. A concerned friend had contacted the Michigan militia and Norman Olson, Commander of the Northern Michigan Regional Militia, came to visit with the Stitts and learn more about their situation. Today, the Stitts had invited the Michigan militia to practice on their property and have a barbeque; they are not being deployed on the property as is suggested by the news story. The Stitts have no where to go and they are afraid of what will happen to them.

If you would like to contact them, the mailing address is as follows:

Mike and Chris Stits

HCR-01

Box 130

Bois Blanc Island, Michigan 49775

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), August 14, 1999.

P.S. My post is not a cut and paste from some article but information received by fax and from my telephone conversation with Christine Stitt.

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), August 14, 1999.

What's wrong PRO? Haven't you ever seen Janet Reno? What does the fact that the woman is butt-ugly and hit every branch as she fell from the tree, got to do with 'hate'? What is 'white-wing' supposed to imply? Last time I checked, Reno was white. Are you low on saline again????

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 14, 1999.

Thanks a million Stan.

If this isn't extortion by a government entity...I don't know what is. Read this again and let it sink in:

They are required by the judge to: [1] pay a $500.00 fine to the Township, [2] OBTAIN PERMITS and tear down each and every single structure on their property (except their home), [3] remove, burn, or bury the debris including foods, feeds, manure, and veternary supplies, slaughtering tools, etc. and OBTAIN APPROPRIATE PERMITS FOR SUCH, [4] OBTAIN PERMITS and remove or dispose of all animals (except 3 dogs and 3 cats), etcetera. All this at the sole expense of Michael and Christine Stitt. The court's cause for the removal, disposal, destruction, burning, and/or burial of property is cited as being in the interest of the public safety of the Bois Blanc Township." Disregarding of course the other folks that have chickens and gardens on the island.

So now, on top of all these legal fees, the Stitts have to "Obtain-or PAY" for proper permits to destroy their property and belongings by court order???

THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS EXTORTION!!!!!!!

I hope the militia stands tall for these folks.

Thanks again for calling them Stan. I say we all help as we can, first with prayer and then as we are able in our own ways. This could be any ONE of us.

Also keep in mind, that by assisting the Stitts...we all become targets for whatever action we take, and whatever action may ensue as a result of this incident. We put ourselves at risk here by getting involved...I mention this only because I want us all to count the cost...and determine if it is worth it. It's something we each must do.

For me, I suppose the time for sacrifice has come.

Are we ready to stand with the Stitts?

Stan, do you plan on staying in contact with them? If so, continue as our liason from TB2000, and keep us updated. Also advise us on action we might take to help them whether it be financial or otherwise.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), August 14, 1999.

The solution to this sort of crap can be found in the book "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross. (do a search on Amazon Books or Loompanics -- http://www.amazon.com or http://loompanics.com)

-- A (A@AisA.com), August 14, 1999.

Thanks Stan, I'd appreciate it if you remained our 'middle man'. Can't think of anyone who could do a finer job! INVAR and A, you are both correct. I believe the time has come to 'put up or shut up'!

I've made my support known and will let you know of any response I recieve! My email is smokin'! Keeping this open and public will create problems for any who may intend 'retaliation'. I intend to begin contacting various media outlets and preparing churches as well! There are many in our area! Please let's not sweep this under the rug and hope it will go away. This could become one of US next! I can guarantee, I'd be there for one of YOU as well! There is power in numbers. Take a poll Janet!

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 14, 1999.

Thank you, Invar, for bringing this to our attention.

Thank you, Stan, for making the phone call and talking with Mrs. Stitt.

We must support these people. It could be any one of us tomorrow.

Last December I was fortunate enough to visit the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C. It had a profound effect on me. One of the things I brought back with me was a card that says the following:

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they cae for me, and there was no one left to speak for me." ~ Pastor Martin Niemoller

What they are doing and why they are doing it to these people is WRONG.

-- Wilferd (WilferdW@aol.com), August 14, 1999.

Not if you listen to some idiots posting on this board Wilfred.

They are just fine with this.

As a matter-of-fact, they think the problem is people like you and Will and I, and folks in the militias.

People like this will deserve everything that's coming down the pike.

They don't want us to speak up. They want us to sit down and shut up.

Care to join me in SHOUTING FROM THE ROOFTOPS ANYONE???

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), August 14, 1999.

The facts appear to be in and Invar is right.I wonder how passive everyone would be if it was happening to you or your family.There must come a point when we as a people stand up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!! I have a hard time trying to understand how anyone could accept this . Our individual freedoms are disinigrating right before our eyes. Wake up people

-- (BigDog001@aol.com), August 14, 1999.

INVAR,

Thanks for shouting about this. If you remember our debate from last wk you may be under the impression that I lack in patriotism. Na, that would be wrong. Anyway you all can count me in. The email is real.

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), August 14, 1999.

Well INVAR I'll hand it to you. You've done a fine job of whipping everyone up into a frothingf rage of righteous indignation. I guess you don't think their militia friends can save them from the evil town council.. Looks to me like a bunch of wannabe Rambo's getting involved in something that's none of their business. Have fun.

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." Hunter S. Thompson

-- gilda (jess@ listbot.com), August 14, 1999.

If it turns into fed abuse, it's everybody's business.

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), August 14, 1999.

gilda, it amazes me how lacking you are in your political views. Why do you continue to waste a perfectly good citizenship? Cuba has a lovely climate, I've been told. Check it out and free up the space for someone else who appreciates what this country has to offer.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 14, 1999.

c'mon, Will Continue? "love it or leave it is way out of date, out of favor, and narrow-minded. Not to mention not too bright. If everyone who refuses to accept the status quo goes to Cuba, what will you have left?

Ask the Stitt's. They are fighting the status quo.

Ok, I forgot. You live in Kansas.

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (al@ready.now), August 14, 1999.

Translation:

If you don't think like I do, you are not an American.

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), August 14, 1999.

And where do YOU live AL? Are you an American citizen? Are you willing to take responsibility for the mess this administration has created? How about for the criminal way the Senate looks the other way? Do you farm? Do you own land? Do you disapprove of a parents right to home school? What are your views?

BTW, I'm actually from Wyoming. Got any smart-assed comment about that, big boy?

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 14, 1999.

Yes, meet Big Al, Y2K Pro's wide-eyed understudy. Your comments are bad enough on the ususal Y2K stuff, are definitely not appreciated on this thread. Morons.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), August 14, 1999.

Looks like this issue has woken up the Clintonista SS Shock troops (aka: Pollyanna Liberal Socialists) who will now go about their propaganda tasks of demouguoging everyone that supports the Stitts in this and Stan's thread.

Do the rest of you folks wonder what life is going to be like when these idiots have the power to act on their demouguogery?

What kind of stars will we be forced to wear?

Oh, never mind...Pro says they will be tinfoil hats.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), August 14, 1999.

Al K. Lloyd: Just what, exactly, is wrong with Kansas?

Kansans have a rich history of not 'following the crowd'. We certainly do not have a tradition of being bullied, or coerced into making decisions that we, as citizens of this fine state, do not want to make. As a state, we've not followed in lock-step with the rest of the nation. Maybe we have been raised to 'think for ourselves', a novel concept to you, I'm sure. We have a rich legacy of not really putting too much stock into what *other* people think. I really like that.

Pity you don't understand how to think for yourself and make decisions without regard to whether or not you'll 'fit in'. It must get pretty tiresome trying to be *popular*.

-- Wilferd (WilferdW@aol.com), August 14, 1999.

It's simple Wilferd,

If you don't reside on the Urban East Coast, A big Midwestern City, or Southern California, you are in what the beltway crowd calls "Flyover country".

We're the little peons that don't count for anything according to this Administration.

We're not important. Just a nuisance...until Election time comes a callin'. Then everyone acts like Americana Pie is just the whole reason government is so good.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), August 14, 1999.

That is precisely why I want Skoal stuffed into Klinton's cakehole before they string him up! :)

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 14, 1999.

The other problem the 'beltway crowd' will have, is that they will be looking to the Skoal-sucking, redneck hicks to feed them. Pitiful.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 14, 1999.

Regarding "Right To Farm" ordinances and statutes - Typically these state that if someone has been lawfully engaged in an agricultural activity for a period of years, then some neighbor can't suddenly complain that the smells, sounds, dust, etc. produced as a by-product of that activity are nuisances that impair the peace and enjoyment of their property.

This often happens when flatlanders buy a few acres in the country, build their mini mansion and discover during the summer that the dairy next door spreads manure effluent on its fields as a best management practice.

The Michigan Right to Farm Act was recently challenged and upheld.

See: http://www.fb.com/issues/analysis/righttofarm.html http://www.fb.com/news/fbn/99/05_10/html/are.html

-- marsh (armstrng@sisqtel.net), August 15, 1999.

Thanks Marsh, for the info and the 'chuckle'.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 15, 1999.

Q: "Just what, exactly, is wrong with Kansas?"

A: "Bob Dole"

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), August 15, 1999.

INVAR, Am I worried about "demouguogery?"

I'm a lot more worried about nuts taking up every cause of people they know very little about, just so they can play savior and hero. It's possible these people are being wrongly charged, but it's also possible there's more to this issue than what you are aware of. As your old buddy Reagan said, "Trust, but verify." Stan got much of his information from the Stitt's--not exactly an unbiased source.

"What is wrong with Kansas?"

A.. Bob Dole. I agree. (King of Viagra, hee hee)

B. The land of wall to wall feed lots. STINK!!! PHEWEEE!!!

C. Skip Science! We are Creationists! What does it matter to Kansans that the US lags behind almost every other country in science text scores.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), August 15, 1999.

Gilda, I'm sure glad it's obvious you aren't a Kansas resident.

*Please*, stay where you are.

Oh, and by the way:

You must be a vegetarian, by the snide remark about feed lots. Sure hope you also have your own farming operation that enables you to grow your own grain. I'm sure you wouldn't want to support an effort of such a backwards state by purchasing products they produce, would you?

Oh, and Bob Dole? I imagine the maker of Viagra is sorry he didn't win the last election. Can you imagine WJC touting the benefits of this drug? PLEASE. It would have been the biggest marketing coup in history. Landoffice business!

Yes, it *is* good to live in a state where the residents feel like they can have a say in what goes on. But it does require a bit of independent thinking, and an unwillingness to blindly follow the crowd. Novel concept for some, I know.

-- Wilferd (WilferdW@aol.com), August 15, 1999.

My Dad always described feed lots as the smell of money (years ago, when a rancher could actually make a living). Some prefer the smell of piss in an alley or bus fumes. I can only hope they stay in those locations as well!

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 15, 1999.

For any newbies reading this....are you not impressed with the intelligent arguement being presented by those like gilda, Al and PRO? Larry, Moe and Curley? Have at it you three, I have goats to milk, and eggs to collect. Ahhhhh....love that smell of independence. The smell of freedom.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 15, 1999.

Gilda, Gilda, Gilda.

>>>"I'm a lot more worried about nuts taking up every cause of people they know very little about, just so they can play savior and hero."<<<

Yes Gilda, that's right. Us "nuts" just love putting ourselves in jeopardy with possible retaliation for getting involved with helping provide a solution to an ugly matter facing total strangers. We nuts jump at every instance there appears to be a case of injustice. Funny how you have no squabbles with the ACLU or another Leftist group taking up the banners against injustices THEY see, especially when they support a lawbreaker. You call them "heroes", "Pioneers", "Original thinkers". But because it's a white-Christian family we nuts wish to help...well, we're not getting the whole story, we're just a bunch of Gung-Ho Rambo's wrapping ourselves in the flag in order to force our view of justice on a hapless government body.

>>>"It's possible these people are being wrongly charged, but it's also possible there's more to this issue than what you are aware of."<<<<

The townBoard 'aint talkin' sweetheart. And they refuse to meet and discuss this situation for a solution that benefits both parties via a third party. The only "other side" of this story that we've gotten so far is the Judge's ruling, and a trustee who says they're "Religious oddballs".

>>>" As your old buddy Reagan said, "Trust, but verify." Stan got much of his information from the Stitt's--not exactly an unbiased source."<<<

He got it DIRECTLY from the source, and yes so what if it's biased. Stan reported that this was THEIR side of the story. The mainstream Press prints and spouts White House Press releases as gospel without verification or investigation. I'm sure that shortly the press will get a town spokesman and/or a press release and print up the situation exactly as the township releases it. The Stitts I'm sure will receive the same wonderful media spin that the Weaver's and Branch Davidians received from the press.

I'm glad we got to hear the Stitt's side of the story. If we got this from the papers or the tube, we'd all be rooting for the National Guard to wipe these dangerous extremists out.

Getting the towns view is going to be very interesting now that the Stitts have successfully been able to get their version out.

But yes Gilda, We're just gun-toting extremist nutcases BEGGING to find a confrontation we can jump into.

We love you Gilda. You make us laugh.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), August 15, 1999.

INVAR, you'd make me laugh if you weren't such a pathetic extremist. You remind me of the Moses on Gary South's site carrying the stone tablet Ten Commandments in one arm, an assault rifle and a case of Spam in the other. "A "Christian Warrior," I think Diane called you. Now that makes me laugh.

INVAR, I think you have slipped over line into utter turdhood.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), August 15, 1999.

And you are just an angel of light sweetie.

Love and kisses.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), August 15, 1999.

Is a left-wing extremist pathetic as well?

Just curious.:)

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 15, 1999.

Al K. Lloyd: Just what, exactly, is wrong with Kansas?

Kansans have a rich history of not 'following the crowd'. We certainly do not have a tradition of being bullied, or coerced into making decisions that we, as citizens of this fine state, do not want to make. As a state, we've not followed in lock-step with the rest of the nation. Maybe we have been raised to 'think for ourselves', a novel concept to you, I'm sure. We have a rich legacy of not really putting too much stock into what *other* people think. I really like that.

Pity you don't understand how to think for yourself and make decisions without regard to whether or not you'll 'fit in'. It must get pretty tiresome trying to be * popular*.

Wilferd, I am very sorry that I offended you. I sometimes forget how prideful people can be in their choice of state residence.

I have nothing against Kansas, per se. I was reacting to Will Continue's offer that, "

gilda, it amazes me how lacking you are in your political views. Why do you continue to waste a perfectly good citizenship? Cuba has a lovely climate, I've been told. Check it out and free up the space for someone else." I would paraphrase this "love it or leave it".

You, Wilferd, as a Kansan, who, in your words, " ... have a rich history of not 'following the crowd" Should appreciate the ability of people to disagree with each other without utilizing that type of cop- out for an argument.

The reason I mentioned Kansas at all is the fact that the Kansas legislature, I believe it was, decided it was ok to allow schools to banish the teaching of evolution in public schools, something I assume you, as a free thinker, must find pretty embarassing.

By the way, Wilferd, I TOTALLY agree with the sentiments expressed in your quotation: "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they cae for me, and there was no one left to speak for me." ~ Pastor Martin Niemoller

However, I also agree with the view of several others on this forum that it's best to ascertain the truth, as far as is possible from our remote locations, before lining up to battle. How would you feel, IVARS, if you were to go help the Michigan Militia blow away all the mean old city councilmen, just to learn AFTER THE FACT, that you had acted prematurely, based on a minimal amount of information?

I would like to quote from a book I am currently reading (The Transparent Society, by David Brin):

Men's natural abilities are too dull to see through everything at once; but by consulting, listening, and debating, they grow more acute, and while they are trying all means, they at last discover those which they want, which all approve, but no one would have thought of in the first place.---Baruch Spinoza.

Sorry if the quote is by an apparent "foreigner", INVARS, but I just happened to come across it a few minutes ago. Another way to say this is "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread"

I believe that this exemplifies why democracy works so well, as opposed to anarchy, which is what I see trying to form here.

Will Continue asks:

And where do YOU live AL? Are you an American citizen?

(Yes, WC, by a twist of fate, through no fault of my own, my ancestors arrived in the US over two hundred years ago from England. I'm a WASP, or white anglo-saxon pagan.)

Are you willing to take responsibility for the mess this administration has created? How about for the criminal way the Senate looks the other way?

(No, WC, I am certainly not willing to take responsibility for either; they are big girls and boys, and can, nay SHOULD take responsibility for their own actions.)

Do you farm? Do you own land? Do you disapprove of a parents right to home school? What are your views?

(I'll answer those in a different order: I own four houses, and six parcels of land which total 48 acres. I farm trees, mostly, what with almost forty acres being forest, including fifteen acres of virging growth trees, if you don't count the trees I mill every year which have died of natural causes. I've built three of the four houses out of these dead trees, which are harvested soon after they give up the ghost, and therefore make sound lumber. Yes, I'm an environmentalist and proud of it. Also a building contractor. Sick of both Demo AND Republicrats. Basically conservative, but not to the extent that I jump on ANY conservative bandwagon. Father of three successful adults, grandfather of two wonderful grandsons.

The only farming I do besides trees is vegetables for home use. I hate the smell of feed lots, and yes, I am a veggie, for the last twenty- three years. I am an avid hunter, but only shoot tofu-de-beest.

While I was very well educated in public schools in Texas, I certainly support anyone to eduacate their own kids at home or anywhere else. I feel sorry for any kids who don't get an opportunity to learn all facets of all issues, whether it be at public schools, private schools, or at home. After one year of building houses in Dallas, Texas, I discovered the west coast, and moved here in 1968. I have lived in Oregon for the last 24 years, twenty two of them in the same location.

BTW, I'm actually from Wyoming. Got any smart-assed comment about that, big boy?

Having read "The Transparent Society", I am a little paranoid about the ability of people to spy on each other. How did you know I am a "big boy" (6'6, 230 pounds)? Have you been peeking?

BTW, WC, I've attended college in Colorado, and went spelunking in southern Wyoming. Why did you decide to leave such a gorgeous state? Dont' get mad, all you Kansans, I just happen to prefer mountains, crystal clear streams and forests to dry,flat grassland, which is the impression I have of Kansas, both from having passed through the SE part of the state, and having seen the movie Wizard of Oz.

Why don't we ALL reserve judgement on this Stitt business until a bit of time has passed and we have a more comprehensive understanding of the situation? It's not going to go away any time soon, I suspect.

On the surface, I agree that it seems that the Stitt's are getting screwed by their government. But I have worked with zoning laws here in Oregon quite a bit in the last few years ('cause I'm a builder) and I know that these laws are often quite complicated. And not ALL bad, although sometimes it feels like it. Surely each of us can think of some land use we would not like to have move in next door to us.

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (al@ready.now), August 15, 1999.

Wilferd, I am a vegetarian which suits me fine. I drove across Kansas on my way to Arizona and it was miles and miles of reeking feed lots. If that smells like money, then money is filth. That night in Fort Dodge, in the motel, I read little paper about how the hundreds of feed lots were lowering the Ogallah (sp) aquifer. And yes I'm an environmentalist and pround of it. I'd like to think that I will leave the Earth in as good or better shape than I found it. I have a grandchild that I would like to know has clean air and water above all else.

Also, I am married to a former rancher who raised cattle and alfalfa, now retired. And my part of my ancestors came over from Wales over 200 years ago. The other side came from Holland slightly later. We own property and raise a large garden and fruit trees. I have a horror of someone buying close to us and raising hogs which stink something awful unless they are allowed to have a nice big place to roam and a mucky watering hole in which to wallow. I don't mind chickens and plan on buying some guineas as ticks are one of their favorite foods.

If independent thinking means you go backward, by cutting out an important part learning, which is science, which includes evolution, then I must have missed something.

I am not saying these people don't have a legitimate complaint, I'm just saying before you jump in with both feet, be sure you have all the facts. Things are not always what they seem. We've had some terrible battles in our area over people building against regulations.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), August 15, 1999.

Did you here that, Decker? Al's been spelunking in Wyoming....LOL. Sorry Al, little 'inside' joke I have going with Mr. 'Rocky Mountain' Decker!

My husband grew up in Kansas. We had become quite unhappy with the school system in Cheyenne and tired of hard Winters, no growing season, rise in population do to influx of City dwelling, dime-store cowboy, Colorado and California transplants. Wyoming will always be home for me, but having moved around alot, home is where the heart is. We have something here we could never have had in Wyoming (especially after all the high dollar types ran up property values and taxes!) The schools here are wonderful. Our little farm looks like something right out of a Norman Rockwell print! The people are hard-working, friendly, down to earth, honest folk with high morals, good values and primarily conservative. Kansas and Wyoming must be on Clinton's nightmare list! Nothing more frightening to a Liberal than hard working, independent, conservative Christains, eh? (give us a gun, and they really go nutso....lol)

I believe some of you misunderstood our intentions about the Stitts. I don't 'draw down' every time I'm pissed off, and neither do the rest. If that were true, I'd be burying bodies full-time :)! What we were trying to suggest, is that this problem shouldn't be looked away from. Some of us feel more passionately than others, and to infer we are armed and dangerous is insulting and ignorant. Thanks for your apology and further explaination.....and I personally am not the least bit 'embarassed' by the school board's decision in Kansas. Religion has been slowly stripped from public view and I admire their courage to stand up for our right to replace it. Apparently, you are not 'embarassed' to announce you are a Pagan. To each their own.... drawing one's last breathe is always the 'ultimate test' in that particular discussion, isn't it?

BTW, What exactly are "INVARS", anyway? Certainly you wouldn't be implying those of us in agreement with him are unable to function on our own would you? I happen to share the majority of his views regarding our Constitution and government. I personally formed these opinions for myself many years ago, initially dealing with the court systems but primarily being raised around strong military and political careers, large operation ranchers, veterans and Patriots. It appeared to me that there were a large number of 'assumptions' being made other than in relation to the original story. That was certainly unfortunate. Good luck to you in your Tofu safari......

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 15, 1999.

Gilda, the only way the invironment could possibly be saved, would be if Billions of human beings kicked the bucket, period. Your view of Kansas is as impressive as your political view. Nuf said.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 15, 1999.

Al, I'm not in the least bit chagrined regarding the recent decision by the Kansas Board of Education to take evolution out of the curriculum.

I see this incident as an example of people exercising their sovereign rights. This was debated vigorously for many months. The decision was made to exclude evolution. I don't know if there was a similar debate when the Board of Education decided to include evolution or not. Perhaps there was no debate, it was just *decided* by the powers that be.

Now, my personal view is that to be *fair*, both evolution and creationism should be presented. Because there is no "proof", I believe one can safely say they are both *theories*. While I do not buy the traditional theory of evolution, not everyone sides with my belief in creationism, either. I'm sure the people who are up in arms about this ruling are as unhappy as I was as a child when I had the theory of evolution crammed down my throat in school.

This is one of the reasons I am a proponent of private schools or home schooling.

Al, I love the mountains and beautiful lakes, too! But, did you go through SE Kansas? That part of the state is quite pretty; lots of green, rolling hills, not quite the Ozarks, but pretty. The western part of the state is what most folks think of when they think of Kansas: treeless, you can look down the horizon for miles and miles, in all directions and see nothing but waving fields of grain. But to me, even that is interesting; Kansans do more than their fair share of feeding the world, so for me, that *is* the beauty of it.

-- Wilferd (WilferdW@aol.com), August 15, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr near Monterey, California

Will continue says: Keeping this open and public will create problems for any who may intend 'retaliation'.

Please, let's be sure to remember that it is the Stitt Family's decision as to what is best for them at this point. They may be very brave and very self-sacrificing. However, with little over four months to go until the turn of the century, it may not be the appropriate time for them to be drawing a lot of media attention to their preparedness.

-- (addy.available@my.webpage.neener.autospammers--regrets.greenspun), August 16, 1999.

If that were the case dancr, the last thing *I* would have done, would have been to invite the Militia into their problem. It has been obvious in most articles addressing their delema that they haven't hid their intentions to be prepared for Y2K.

I am continually amazed by the bandwagon who promotes alerting and saving the masses from Y2K only to turn around and suggest secrecy in preparations. What's it gonna be? We chose secrecy with full intention of providing for neighbors around us once TSHTF. The Stitts have obviously chosen publicity as a last resort to being STRIPPED of their home and property.

Count me 'in'. :)

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 16, 1999.

Not to pick at you or anything dancr, but, you are suggesting that secrecy would be wise and yet you question the inability to contact several of us (on a different thread) due to annonymous e-mails. Hell- ooooooooo?

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 16, 1999.

In regards to assisting their neighbors on Bois Blanc if Y2K should be more than a bump in the road, Christine Stitt is ready to take in, feed, and help as many neighbors as they can (including says she, the neighbors that want her off the island).

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), August 16, 1999.

Wilferd, I've been through the ozarks; they are beautiful (still can't stand all the midwest humidity). Regardless, I should not have made disparaging comments about MY perception of Kansas. People always crack me up when they assume my former state of Texas is DRY! Parts of it are,--very much so, but the eastern part, the "piney woods" are wet. WET, AND HUMID. It's why I left. All my tools rusted INSIDE THE DANG HOUSE. Everything was moldy, including my body. Everyone has to fight athelete's foot. Yech.

As far as evolution being a theory, My dictionary defines "evolution" as "BIOLOGY. a. The theory that groups of organisms, as species, may change with passage of time so that descendants differ morphologically and physiologically from their ancestors. It doesn't address where we all ORIGINALLY came from (my personal opinion is that god, or someone we might as well call "god" created the universe, then left us to our own devices. If he/she were still in charge, I don't think things would be quite as screwed up as they are in a lot of countries)

But after god created life, I can't see how you can deny that species change. If you can see that tigers are related to lions, dogs to coyotes and wolves, corkscrew willows to weeping willows, etc. this seems to indicate that all these things have common ancestors which were different than the present species. What's so anti religious about that?

Hope you guys' drought is over by now.

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (al@ready.now), August 16, 1999.

Lots of heat on this thread, but not much light. In any event...God help the children of this family. They will certainly need it no matter which outcome obtains.

-- Jeff (jeff@home.now), August 16, 1999.

I contacted the folks in BB about the press releases. Here is the response I received:

Send reply to: "Bunker Clark"

From: "Bunker Clark"



Subject: Bois Blanc Island
Date sent: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:34:21 -0500


Brenda Looney


The material you sent represents one side of the controversy concerning the Stitts on Bois Blanc Island. If you wish a more balanced account, call the president of the Bois Blanc Island Association, Curt Van Voorhees, 231/634-7238.

Bunker Clark

Pretty much of a non-statement to me. So the word down from "powers that be is"........."pass the buck -- we won't discuss it until we have to"......

-- Mr. Kennedy (MrK@home.today), August 17, 1999.

Whatever happened to this?? It seems like it would have been C-SPANable. I kind of trust those folks. Gack I get both my friends on the left and the right mad at me. Does this mean I am doing something right?

Anyway though nothing really bad happen in Y2K, Y2K+1 was not as fun as the movie.;) Right now I am going to vote for Kerry becauss I think AShcroft is as bad as Reno and he is messing with the Constitution which is worse.

However I have my dislike of demos over the DCMA and support for the Induce Act. I mean if we want to make our own CDs of out so called UFO nut meetings and add Nina Hagen's "Flying Suacers" then I don't want either Fritz Holling or Barbara Boser trying to stop me from having a piece of equipment that can do it. Probably because mostly I will probablly burn weird art stuff few others would like.

These local and state politics stuff I have done. Like keeping the California Computer Crime law from turning into a making everything illegal unless blessed by some big biz or gov power. Oddly it was Dornin who finally gave us the support we needed and I look like long haired hippy guy version 11.0

Have Fun, Sends Steve

-- Steve Kudlak (chromazine@sbcglobal.net), September 24, 2004.