Mr. D wrote: "Even so, Spain will find fault in anything short of preparing for the Apocalypse... of course, I invite him to post his preparation recommendations on a separate thread. How much is enough?"

Well, I'll bite and start it off. How much is enough?

For my family, in the Canadian prairies, we stocked enough to be self sufficient through to spring. I could lock our door Jan 1, and not emerge until May. We have water, food, wood, defense, and each other. It was, and continues to be a lot of work, but none of it is throwaway regardless of what the situation turns out to be and our family is working together on a common goal that may end up saving our lives...the key word is *may*. I don't know what will happen, therefore I prepare for a plausible bad situation.

Why spring? Well, it's easier to get around, get water, hunt, etc. Not only that, but if Y2K disruptions are generally fixed by spring or before, then we come through OK. If disruptions last longer than spring , then predicting what to even prepare for after such a lengthy disruption doesn't even make sense as no one can predict what the landscape would look like ergo what to stockpile for (except Gary North who has ALL the answers AND has God on his side apparently).

What I keep thinking about is sitting in a dark cold house, taps dry, people banging on the door, and me kicking myself for not preparing anything beforehand when I suspected I should. What would I say to my hungry family - that I stupidly believed obviously slanted government reports and ignored all my technical experience? What sort of man would I be to ignore my basic survival instinct in the face of unpredictability and heightened risk? A foolish one...

And if I end up sitting in a warm, well lit home after a nice meal in January hearing reports of minor Y2K problems that never get any worse - I'd be glad to feel foolish then, burp, and open another can. My grocery bill will be nonexistant for a few months. Cheap insurance. No harm to me or to others.

So, what say the rest?

Crazy Canuck

-- Canuck (canuck@canada.com), August 12, 1999

Answers

Works for me.

Getting ready before the panic is a no-brainer, and very few apparently can see that. That a panic is coming is also a no-brainer; one comes with every storm, with xmas, you name it.

Buying food that you're gonna use up if nothing bad happens, having that insurance, has got to be the simplest thing to understand in this century. I am totally amazed that we are still having this kind of discussion in August of 1999.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), August 12, 1999.

It makes sense to prepare for the worst. It doesn't mean that you think that6 the worst is likely to happen. We're all wrong once in a while. But if you decide not to prepare and your wrong... Your dead. Add to that the fact that you will most likely use most of your supplies anyway and it comes out to cheap insurance indeed. I can't see a reason not to prepare. Imagine how resiliant our society would be if we all had just a three month stock in our pantry. Now add at least partial power from solar panels, gardening skills, water treatment capability, first aid skills... It would make for an excellent civil defence doctrine and wouldn't cost the taxpayers a dime. Works for national as well as local events. And we wouldn't have to pester the federal government with the responsibility of assuming extraordinary police powers to keep us safe. You can't loose.

Now I just have to do the same thing finacially.

Keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), August 12, 1999.

The question before everyone is:

How much preparation is enough?

I didn't pose the question as much for Mr. Decker, as for my own interest in what the rest are preparing for. So, speak!

-- Canuck (canuck@canada.com), August 12, 1999.

C'mon canuck, there IS no RIGHT answer. But I can tell you, it certainly doesn't hurt to buy enough food to last for a year; there is a lot of variety to choose from with expiration dates a year from now. It's easy to stockpile firewood for a year, too. Some of us already stockpile firewood for two or three years, just to give it lots of time to season. Water? Depends on where you live. If you've got a spring, creek, well with a handpump, etc, you'll NEVER run out of water. Stockpile a years worth of bleach to help purify it (and at, what is it, two drops per quart?, it won't take much bleach, either.)

If you don't have wood heat, sorry about that. Wood's so easy to stockpile compared to oil, propane, etc. I guess if you're in coal country, you could stockpile a lot of that without too much trouble.

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (al@ready.now), August 12, 1999.

Personally, I like to look ahead to the NEXT May. Remember, you may have a bad crop, or something, to prevent that immed. May from being what you need. So I guess what I'm saying is really about 18 months.

-- Mr. Mike (mikeabn@aol.com), August 12, 1999.

Canuck stated: "If disruptions last longer than spring , then predicting what to even prepare for after such a lengthy disruption doesn't even make sense..."

Looks as though you answered your own question.

If you're a newcomer to TB2000 then I excuse you for starting this thread with a header addressed to Mr. Decker specifically, & then promptly backing away from it.

If, on the other hand, you've been lurking here for a couple of months then yours is a troll posting. I'll leave it to you to inform us which of the two scenarios is accurate.

I'll be happy to expound on this post after reading your answer.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@pop.shentel.net), August 12, 1999.

If disruptions last longer than spring, then predicting what to even prepare for after such a lengthy disruption doesn't even make sense as no one can predict what the landscape would look like ergo what to stockpile for (except Gary North who has ALL the answers AND has God on his side apparently).

This sounds more like you don't want to think about the possibility that it will last longer than a few months. This is hardly preparation, more like a half-hearted effort at looking prepared so you can sleep at night and thumb your nose at the Pollys. Except that when you run out of food and supplies in the spring, you'll be in the same situation they were. What will you say to your hungry family then?

-- (its@coming.soon), August 12, 1999.

I'm checking my back pocket for my doomer card.

Yes. It's there.

Still, its@coming.soon must be a little too excited or something; I find his-her-its comment to be as problematic as a pollyanna position. I think I know what its@coming.soon is trying to say; and if he-she-it (lets call "them" Pat for sake of convenience) were to know by some uncanny intuition, apparition, vision, or revelation that things are going to be very bad, then Pat should prepare accordingly... and Pat would be more wise to do so than prudent. Anything less of Pat might be considered half-hearted.

For the rest of us who do not enjoy such affects, it seems that our prudence will be measured not by our ability or inability to overcome whatever challenge may come... not by how much preparations we have, but (perhaps) by our individual assessment of the risks based upon facts and inferences and also the actions that we took in light of our assessment and our situation. I think that both Big Dog and Flint might even agree with me on this point. Of course, I may be wrong.

Y2K is a serious matter. I do assume that the facts and inferences do not make foolish anyone's efforts to make a minimum of 14 days of preparations against exposure, cold, thirst, hunger, etcetera. Indeed. I do assume that such action is prudent. It is none of my business if someone is preparing for 10 years or one month. Nor is it the business of the state. Whether 10 years of preparations is foolish or not may quite possibly be known only to God. Who knows what God has in store for them! Nor do I know if their fate now only requires a day's keep.

Do you know?

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), August 12, 1999.

Hi there CC

To bad you didn't mention where you are. I am in Victoria BC but have family in Alberta and Manitoba plus I lived in the NWT (Yellowknife) for 5 years. In your position it sounds like a good deal anyway to be over rather than under prepare. The last place a person would want to be is Armpit Saskashrub and the world starts to get wierd. Alot of folk say they are going to run off to the bush (or the lack of it) but the reality is much differant. Of course you could live in a city.

Personally Jasper sounds good.

I would think that Water could be a big problem. In Calgary they have both water purification and sewage treatment. If either one fails then there is a huge problem. The Alberta Power supply is always failing because of to much growth and not enough infurstructure. We have loads of power over here in BC but there is not enough transmission to relieve Alberta.

None of the above will affect my area. Water always runs down hill, most places are septic or the sewage runs striaght into the ocean and the Hydro supply is at much less risk than other forms of power generation. We have our own problems not the least is living on a Island which is good and bad. Tourism is a big deal here and next year will not be a great traveling year for alot of folk no doubt. The worst would be health, we have LOTS of older folk here (including my parents) and the systems might be taxed. Differant areas are going to have differant problems. Alberta has lots of oil deposits and refining capability if the big boys have their act together. We have very little storage here and that could present a problem.

As far as addressing Mr. Decker you cut and pasted a little bit of a bigger conflict. There are entrenched views on this forum and that little quote is right in the middle of the "discussion". Besides there is a small chance that either will end up in the subarctic conditions that can exist on the prairies.

It can be a total lack of fun in the winter there.

Of course winter can last right into May eh? That sucks.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), August 12, 1999.

It was a rhetorical question. Actually, the original question came on the Ann Landers thread. Is is my understanding, Ms. Landers wrote a piece dimissing Y2K. After a chat with the Y2K Senators, she wrote an article espousing FEMA/Red Cross type preparations. After "Spain" took her to task over this, I asked the question.

I think Ms. Landers ought to be praised, if only for a willingness to reconsider her view... a rare quality, particularly on this forum. Given her wide following, she also may have spurred people to take modest precautions that would be useful for any disruption, not just Y2K. Of course, Spain came to bury Lander, not to praise her.

Regards,

-- Mr. Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), August 13, 1999.

Actually, Dear Abby dissed Y2K, while Ann Landers was the one who printed the "three-day snowstorm" baloney for the senators.

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), August 13, 1999.

OK One at a time:

Bingo 1 - I am a relatively newcomer to TB2000, true, but I did not back away from anything. The challenge posted by Mr. Decker is to answer the question of "how much is enough" - which I did and then asked others for their own opinions (of which I will await your answer). This was never a question FOR Mr. D but rather a response. Does that answer your question?

its@coming.soon I HAVE thought about the possibility of longer than a few months (5 months till spring up here in Canada, you know) and I'll be the first to admit it scares the hell out of me. However, I firmly believe that it's virtually impossible to visualize what the world will be like after 5 months of chaos everywhere - will there be a nuclear exchange and I need to build a bloody bomb shelteror will there be unattended nuclear plants melting down and I need gas masks and radiation suitsor will there be neo-nazi christian government and I need to practice my goose stepor. I feel it's just too difficult to predict how society will implode after an extended chaotic states and therefore I will equip myself with the tools and knowledge to hunt, skin, filter water, build a shelter, etc. - basic survival skills that should help me to continue to be self-sufficient barring immense environmental contamination. So, what I will say to my hungry family is "Daddy's going huntin'". So, 5 months preparation with a future-thinking plan constitutes 'hardly preparation.half-hearted effort". Mr Decker is actually right here in your case - in some eyes there is NEVER enough preparation. The question is still before you Coming Soon - how much is enough.

AK Lloyd - I wasn't looking for a right answer - just an answer which so many are so reluctant to give.

Brian - I live in Saskabush (-40 winters) - but the population is much smaller here - no big centres and lots of farms with cattle, etc, and a farmer mindset of stockpiling as a way of life. I think I'd rather be here prepared for the cold, than in a warmer climate with a higher population and not as much empty space to run to.

-- Canuck (canuck@canada.com), August 13, 1999.

CC

Good to see you on the board, could you give and impression on the awareness in your area? Canada is so damm big and there are very few views on what is happening elsewhere.

And if you have not seen it here is my Canadian Y2K site.

Y2K in Canada and Beyond

-- Brian (imager@home.com), August 13, 1999.

Brian,

I was just in Canada last week. It was very interesting. The people there seemed much more aware of y2k than here.

-- Moore Dinty moore (not@thistime.com), August 13, 1999.

Hey Brian.

Awareness is very low here - talked to friends and family and watched the papers and tv and there's very little. No community discussions. No one discussing it much.

Good thing is that SaskPower, SaskTel, SaskEnergy are all crown agencies and appear to have comprehensive projects for y2k and are pretty much monopolies here - this further reduces risk but everything's connected of course, so that's little comfort.

Oooooh Caaaanadaaaa.

-- canuck (canuck@canada.com), August 13, 1999.

"Good thing is that SaskPower, SaskTel, SaskEnergy are all crown agencies and appear to have comprehensive projects for y2k and are pretty much monopolies here -

Yes the same here in BC. Must be that socialist thingy in Canada EH?

Awareness here is mixed, there is one thing for sure, the adds on the TV and Radio are hyping the Y2K thing big time. Always hear it daily. Wonder if it helps awareness or hurts it.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), August 13, 1999.