Why don't more folks use .hotmail?

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A while back the moderator of this forum reuested we users use either our real e-mail address, (so it didn't cause problems), or use some service like (free).hotmail, (if we wanted to keep it confidential). I'm thinking of using the .hotmail, but I wonder why more forum folks aren't using it. Is it because it really isn't confidential, or because it is hard to set up, or what?

-- Red Fox (foxy@earthnet.org), August 12, 1999

Answers

HIghest probability = "or what?"

My guess, INERTIA

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), August 12, 1999.


I have a hotmail account, Red Fox. It isn't private - they send cookies to you that will be returned to an entire domain. Note that you must accept all of these cookies in order to reach your account and to log off correctly. Still, I need an anonymous account or two for software registration, chat rooms, forums, etc. In my opinion, it's far too dangerous to use the email account that came with your dial-up access (or whatever) for these purposes. It's a piece of cake to set up; your account is ready immediately.

-- Mori-Nu (silkenet@yahoo.com), August 12, 1999.

Mori-Nu: If you have the time...could you explain this to me a bit more (I'm not grngrl for nothin'!) Specific questions: 1) I use the account that was assigned with my dial up service -- why is this a problem? 2) How do you get annonymous accounts? and why do you do it? I'll understand if you don't feel like responding -- but I really do want to know and don't have many other resources. Mahalo, Grngrl

-- grngrl (jhandt@gte.net), August 12, 1999.

I recommend using an anonymous account for software registration, posting in highly trafficked areas, and correspondence with people you don't know well because it's relatively safe. It might not be a problem for you to use your dial-up account address for these things, but consider the following:
~ If someone has your dial-up account he can easily (physically) find you.
~ If someone has your dial-up account he can set you up for spam (lots of email sent to your account). If he does a good job he'll prevent you from reading your email without a 6 hour download.
~ If an organization has your dial-up account, it can send you advertisements or encourage others to do the same. (I see enough of those on the web!)
In short, an anonymous account lets you watch safely from a distance.

There are many sites to register an anonymous account. Try yahoo.com, hotmail.com, fortunecity.com, whatever - just look around. Good luck!

-- Mori-Nu (silkenet@yahoo.com), August 12, 1999.


Mori-Nu,

I don't think you fully appreciate how cookies work. They are written by your browser to your hard disk at the request of someone's web page. The same web page may later request that same information back by having your browser read the cookie from your hard disk. There is *no way* for Hotmail to gain access to private information about you, other than what you type in during registration.

Registration details can, of course, be totally fictitious. Make sure you tick the box which says you don't want anything e-mailed to you or you will get buckets of Hotmail-approved spam.

Unless you are careful, however, Hotmail accounts can be quite easily hacked. This can be done by someone either answering your 'password clue' correctly (this has been tightened up by Hotmail now requesting a ZIP code as well) or by creating a fake log-on screen which looks just like Hotmail's but in fact e-mails your logon and password to a third party.

In summary, Hotmail is extremely anonymous - but choose a good password and password clue and be careful about any "trojan" e-mails which send you to a log-in screen.

-- Y2KGardener (kissmy@hotmail.com), August 12, 1999.



I use hotmail occassionally, and I also sometimes use my main account for posting, as I am doing now.

-- (dcox@ix.netcom.com), August 12, 1999.

First-- it isn't just hotmail that uses cookies. Yahoo, mailcity, and just about all of the 'free' web based e-mail services use them.

Second-- Y2KGardener wrote:

"I don't think you fully appreciate how cookies work. They are written by your browser to your hard disk at the request of someone's web page. The same web page may later request that same information back by having your browser read the cookie from your hard disk. There is *no way* for Hotmail to gain access to private information about you, other than what you type in during registration. "

I used to think that there was no way to track "private" information through cookies, too. I guess it would depend on what ones definition of "private" is. Cookies can keep track of the sites you browse. I know that yahoo specifically has a Notice that they collect personal on this site (e-mail log-in area).

I really wish I understood more about cookies and tracking and confidentiallity on the net. Even without cookies, I believe that any web site you go to has the ability to "know" your IP address. I'm sure that every post here has that linked with it-- accessible by the sysops and forum admins., I would guess.

Even though I have been to a couple sites about cookies, I still don't understand them completely. Some links that may help--

Phil Greenspun's on-line web-publishing book (as in greenspun.com and these forums) chapter 9 on User tracking:

http://photo.net/wtr/thebook/user-tracking.html

has a little section on cookies, but then gets really interesting in the section subtitled ""I want to know the age, sex, and zip code of every person who visited my site so that I can prepare a brochure for advertisers."

A quote from that section that appears as a caption to a diagram: "Magic cookies mean the end of privacy on the Internet."

The other site that may be of interest/help is:

http://www.cookiecentral.com/

A quote from their page called "government speaks out on cookies" says, "The Energy Department's Computer Incident Advisory Capability (CIAC) recently issued a report on cookie technology and its use on the web. They deemed the general use as being ok, but did stress concern over the use of persistent cookies to target users, "Cookies are being used for tracking people's browsing habits, and that makes a lot of people really uncomfortable."

-- don't care for cookies (idouseyahoobutnot@this.time), August 12, 1999.


I use hotmail

hint for losers: turn your cookies off. duh

-- Super Polly (Fu_Q_y2kfreaks@hotmail.com), August 12, 1999.


So how confidential is our "real" name when we use fictitious names and email addresses on THIS forum? In other words, is it possible that the moderators keep a list of the "real" email addresses which come in with the "fake" email addresses (like I'm using now)

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (al@ready.now), August 12, 1999.


all about cookies

http://www.cookiecentral.com/

-- dave (wootendave@hotmail.com), August 12, 1999.



hint for Super Polly -- try logging into your hotmail with cookies turned off

-- duh (duh@duh.duh), August 12, 1999.

mr/ms duh:

try turning your cookies on long enough to log in, then off when you leave

or delete them manually. but that would require computer literacy on your part

-- Super Polly (Fu_Q_y2kfreaks@hotmail.com), August 12, 1999.


My Hotmail address is bumblepuff@hotmail.com

Bumblepuff is the name of a fictitious character in a trilogy entitled "Nik In Plasticland".

Bumblepuff is one meter tall with long brown hair and a big nose.

He and Nik had lots of interesting adventures until they met the evil king of Plasticland.

Later Nik met the Chromions, beings of many colors, and he discovered their underground dwellings.

Bumblepuff did not enter Chromia, and his story line was finished.

I rarely use it except to communicate with a service technician.

I like dinosaurs.

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), August 12, 1999.


Good question. I suggest that everyone get a real e-mail address when using this forum, even if it's fake!

Hotmail is good, there are a bunch out there. Just don't use Yahoo, unless this issus gets resolved:

(8/04/99) tfletch's Daily Y2k Report

Do complain!!! Sorry to get "of topic," but I'm going to push Tracy's cause wherever I get the chance. And sorry that I do have a Yahoo address. I may not for long! <:(=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), August 13, 1999.


Y2K Gardener:
"There is *no way* for Hotmail to gain access to private information about you, other than what you type in during registration."
I disagree. The cookies sent to you from Hotmail can be accessed by an entire domain. I'm willing to bet that some people use the msn domain for things other than anonymous mail.

Superpolly:
Everyone that values their privacy rejects cookies that they don't need to accept or deletes them. The point was if you don't accept cookies from Hotmail, you don't get in. You don't have to be rude; I don't think you're sharing any breaking news with most people here.

-- Mori-Nu (silkenet@yahoo.com), August 13, 1999.



d.c.f.c. - you're right, surfers' IP addresses can be found without cookies.

-- Mori-Nu (silkenet@yahoo.com), August 13, 1999.

I refuse to allow anyone to set cookies on my system, simply because I don't trust them. Sure, companies can say that it's for only such and such purpose, but they've been known to lie, haven't they?

Get a privacy-protecting program like Guard Dog, and set your browser for no cookies, and you're RELATIVELY safe. I'm sure that there are more knowledgeable people who might enlighten us about what else can be done to enhance privacy.

I used to use Hotmail, but not anymore, because of the new cookies requirement. msgbox.com doesn't require them, but it's unreliable. I get lockups with my computer on that site about 33% of the time. Stinks. But, it's free, so I shouldn't complain too much. :0

-- Bill (billclo@msgbox.com), August 13, 1999.


I use an anonymous e-mail address, because I conduct business out of my regular e-mail, and, on the off chance I really piss someone off, I don't want it filled up with flames.

As to someone tracking me down via my anonymous mail, I guess I just lack the ego to believe that I'm that juicy of a target, for someone to go thru that sort of effort.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), August 13, 1999.


Super Polly:

now you see what i was getting at about your combination of "use hotmail" and "turn your cookies off", i guess.

but -- "delete them manually"? you mean with an eraser? yah, requires computer literacy to get that case open, all right.

-- duh (duh@duh.duh), August 13, 1999.


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