MANY LIVES WILL BE SPARED BECAUSE OF WHAT GARY NORTH HAS DONE FOR US! He truly is a hero in my book!

-- Y2K ready (Y2K@ready.com), August 12, 1999

Answers

I have a lot of respect for Gary North.

-- Carol (glear@usa.net), August 12, 1999.

Read some of theology, aka Christian Reconstructionism. North's "reconstruction" of America would reserve citizenship for the true believers and impose an Old Testament theocracy. Oh, and check his 20 years of failed predictions.

Regards,

-- Mr. Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), August 12, 1999.

I have prepared because of Gary North's predictions. I hope he is wrong again!

-- smitty (smitty@sandiego.com), August 12, 1999.

I'm happy that some of you have become GI's because of Gary North.

I have become a GI in SPITE of Gary North.

I believe that his wacky predictions, along with those of other extreme doomers and religious nutcases, have become so associated with y2k by many otherwise thoughtful people that he is actually preventing them from giving y2k's potentiality any real consideration.

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (al@ready.now), August 12, 1999.

I nominate Mr Gary North for the Salt and light award for his faithful commitment to God our father and His son Jesus in reporting the facts about a terrible management decision by Govt and corporate world leaders to blantly conceal the truth about the y2k that will cause humanity great harm. For his integretity in journalism for digging deep to get the truth. (a pearl of great price) in which he has suffered tremendous ridicule above and beyond the call of duty to help awaking a sleeping public that is being intentionally deceived by a mock democratic republic. Who's leaders have sold out their's and our's childrens birthright a consititutional government for a crust of corporate third way bread. The facism is exposed The federal reserve is and will always be a loser. Takes divine courage to call the banker power trip for what it is. World slavery. does anyone have access to usary free morgages, usary free higher education loans, usary free small business start up packages, usary free child support programs...........Get with public..... Gary North is trying to help us to preserve our freedom. our heritage as a nation founded under the consititution before they shreaded it and as God's children in which we owe him a mulitude of thanks.

-- y2k aware mike (y2k aware mike @ conservation . com), August 12, 1999.

Ditto

If things turn out terrible, Gary may have saved my life.

If things turn out less than terrible, he hepled me to have an excess of daily items that may be scarce and hence more expensive.

If things turn out OK, he will have wakened me to the need to be ready for the thing you do not see coming. I will ALWAYS have at least 6 months of everyday items, bought in bulk, on hand from now on. So at the minimum, Gary North impressed upon me the frugal buying lifestyle. Danke Gary.

But, Mr. North, if you try to turn America into a theocracy, I will fight you to the bitter end. In fact, into deadly combat should it be needed. This is my country too.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), August 12, 1999.

I think I'm a GI despite Scary Gary. I agreed with him when he talked about the lack of moral values in society and how this situation may be recompense for them... then I realized what I consider moral is vastly different then what Gary thinks is moral. Christian fundementalists don't scare me, they amuse me, but they don't scare me. Mostly because I know God doesn't hate us enough to put them into

-- Typhonblue (typhonblue@hotmail.com), August 12, 1999.

Thanks, Gary !

When I was turned on to Gary about a year ago now, his religious beliefs were not as much in evidence, but he scared you enough to research Y2K further. That, I think, is the important thing, or this GI would still be an ostrich or a sheeple.

-- sue (deco100@aol.com), August 12, 1999.

I have no doubt Gary has already saved lives - and will continue to do so even if y2k is a bitr (snowball's chance in hades...)

Most thinking people are with uncle D on Gary's reconstructionist views

however - Gary does NOT preach these views to his y2k audience

not once have I seen them on his y2k web site...

not once has he mentioned them on any of the radio shows I've heard him speak on (artbell.com)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 12, 1999.

"But, Mr. North, if you try to turn America into a theocracy, I will fight you to the bitter end."

Second that, Deedah.

But the amazing thing about North is his humor -- wonderful, dry wit -- and a nose for hypocrisy like no other I've read in a long time. (Could he apply it to his own theocracy? Let's not find out, OK? Have you seen "The Handmaid's Tale"? Robert Duvall takes us into that world.)

It's hard to imagine North being as rigid and stupid as I've always imagined religious fanatics being. His intelligence shines through too brightly.

What's going on is *I'm* having to back off my prejudices against people considered to be at the religious extremes, because of Gary. Someday, I may want to know how a guy that bright got to his beliefs.

It's hard to replace something with nothing. The religious fundos have set up "secular humanism" as their straw man to fight and struggle with in their conquest of Western Civ. Should we try to come up with a "real philosophy," to counter them?

Or not? I actually think that most U.S. Americans have chiefly believed in "live and let live" (at least for their fellow whites of equal caste) throughout the history of this settlement. It's just that there's not much in that to write a book about, like the religious ones do about theirs.

Very few religions that don't boil down to bullying of one sort or another, and it must be frustrating to always be in the minority with that kind of tendency.

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.uni), August 12, 1999.

Thank you Gary. Your religious convictions are your affair. There are christianoids and then there are Christians (few).

To be one you quietly follow the teachings of the Nazarene.

The reason for protecting freedom of religion and of speech is that too many scoundrels hide under the flag and the cross or the various denominations.

The real is what is. The Sun is the Sub. The truth is the image of the real on the mirror of the intellect, which is adequate provided the mirror is clean and undistorted of cracked.

To thine own self be true and it follows.....

-- Z (Z@ZZZ.net), August 12, 1999.

Ah yes, Scary Gary, the King of the Tinfoils, the modern day Jim Jones. Who's got the kool-aid?

"So, of course I want to see y2k bring down the system, all over the world. I have hoped for this all of my adult life." -- Gary North

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), August 12, 1999.

I think CPR has that kool aid for you, Y2K Pro....

in reality, large and small users MUST have their systems in place and ready no later than Early 1999 to insure they will work!! Charles P. Rueben

I have stated openly that the "nightmare of the Computer Professionals has come true, ..."the Users got free" ". It was a dramatic way of saying that all the work to clean up a major problem can be "screwed up" by the Fat Clients and the legacy Software and Data Charles P. Rueben

Some of the IT people here are planning trips and intend to be away for the weekend. They think about gold and silver with some preference for the latter. I tell them to have silver and gold coins. In reality, certain types of food would be better because you can barter with that. I, OTOH, want to be liquid but it will be long before 1/1/2000 Charles P. Rueben

-- Mother Nacho (cornballs@salsa.net), August 12, 1999.

gary north has been more responsible - than anyone else - for our y2k awareness. EVEN IF NOTHING HAPPENS .. it is his persistence and collating of huge numbers of facts that has gotten us aware. thank you also.

-- lou (lanny1@ix.netcom.com), August 12, 1999.

Y2k is a means to an end for North. He has made it clear that he wants Y2k to bring down the system.

But for those that think North's use of distorted "spin" and scare tactics is a good and noble thing, consider:

If North truly believed that Y2k, in and of itself, could bring down the system, the very last thing he would want is to raise awareness and have people address the problem.

He would, in fact, keep very quiet. And gather his "Remnant", to wait for the collapse.

Yet he does not. He continually posts his distorted "spin", along with any piece of quasi-information, verified or not, that can help increase Fear and Doubt. In the hopes of fanning "Panic".

Ask yourself, if he felt Y2k by itself could collapse the system, why he does that?

-- Hoffmeister (hoff_meister@my-deja.com), August 12, 1999.

Andy,

I dont mean this as a provocation, nor do I intend any insult to you, but I have to point out a glaring inconsistency here.

On many many posts, I have noted your sceptical stance on all things Gubernmental, with particular regard to your enthusiasm for all theories which suggest some global machination of a world government, a new world order, totalitarian mind control, creepy political types under the control of reptilian aliens, all kinds of denials of basic freedoms, and notably . . lies, and hidden agendas.

A mainstay of those who subscribe to these theories is always to challenge "official" communication with such responses as . .

"Ah, but of course they'd say that . . they wouldn't tell us the truth"

"Its what they DON'T say that matters"

"Its just PR spin for the sheeple to swallow"

"They may appear benign, but you should see what they do when nobody's looking"

etc etc etc.

Now, I have sympathy with many of these feelings. I'm hardly naieve about the ruthlessness and self-interest of those politico's mean- spirited enough to kick and maul their way to the top of the greasy pole. Generally, I take everything I read, see, or hear from such creatures with a 25 pound bag of salt. If thrust into contact with these people, my tactic is to smile benignly, wave my blank voting slip in front of their eyes (which works very much like hypnosis), and while they're dazzled, make a run for it.

So I'm no fan of the system. I'm just pragmatic, and I realise that while the system 'aint perfect, it's about the best one available at this point in time, unless you count the option of relocation to Thailand as a practical plan. (*sigh*)

So whats my point ? Well . . . it seems to me that we share some genetic code as regards our dogged unwillingness to shut out the deafening screams of the oppressed and simply "get with the smiley- happy program". (admittedly, we go about it differently, selah)

But when it comes to GN, it appears we are poles apart. Could this be some kind of blind-spot on your part ? Your assertion that it is *some kind of indication of his trustworthiness and sincerity* that he neglects to mention to his "fresh-meat" Y2K audience the simple (and admitted) facts that HE WANTS Y2K TO BE AS BAD AS POSSIBLE, AND PREFERABLY CATASTROPHIC, (so that he can swing into action with his plans for a theological dictatorship), seems a paradox.

If it was Clinton doing such things, you'd be the loudest voice yelling the kind of rhetoric I listed above . . about "hidden agendas" "dishonesty" and "conspiracy". But when the conspiracy is right there for all but the most cloud-minded to see, you kinda fail to react. Whats the deal with that ?

I'd respect Gary more if he DID fill his Y2K pages with information about his sinister plans for usurping the US Constitution and replacing it with his version, wherein anyone not "fitting the model of permissible human behaviour" (according to him) is to be stoned to death. (I laughed too, at first, until I realised he wasn't joking).

So on the one hand you are a vociferous critic of those in power, abusing their power in order to "control" our lives. Hear hear. Me too. But when Gary admits in one place that, given the chance, he'd be kinda like Hitler, only without the silly moustache, and with a far broader remit of persons "deemed unworthy of continued existence", and yet in other places he hides that information, (clearly concerned that he's far less likely to "recruit" new blood if he starts spouting the spooky and hairbrained end of his psyche too soon), you seem impressed.

Care to shed some light on this ?

Kind Regards

W

-- W0lv3r1n3 (W0lv3r1n3@yahoo.com), August 12, 1999.

while gary is not the one who opened my eyes to y2k (cory gets that honor/blame), i've found his resources very valuable.

also, while i've not delved into his theocracy plans, they don't worry me. repression from either side of the spectrum is just as bad.

imho, if this *is* the advent of the second coming, there are going to be a lot of 'fundamentalists' that are going to be surprised by the flock Jesus welcomes into His fold.

not to say there are no standards for entry into the kingdom, they just don't hinge on the kinds of things most denominations get into fistfights over. it only takes one thing to be saved.

-- Cowardly Lion (cl0001@hotmail.com), August 12, 1999.

"We know, however, that public flogging is lawful, up to forty lashes (Deut. 25:3), yet no crime in the Bible ever explicitly requires public physical punishment, except on an eye-for-eye basis, or the unique case of the woman who has her palm split in response to her specific prohibited physical violence against her husbands opponent in a fight (Deut. 25:11-12). The punishment for cursing a civil magistrate is therefore left to the discretion of the magistrates or a jury. It might be public flogging; it might be a fine imposed in lieu of public flogging."

Gary North On Cursing

-- Yikes (gary@very.scary), August 12, 1999.

I'm getting kind of curious about Gary North's religious views from reading all of your posts. Even though I have been reading his Y2K siter for well over 18 months now, I'm clueless as to what these views are, as I have never seen him discuss them on the Y2K site...

Could some of you who seem so well-informed on his religious beliefs please explain them, or post the links where I can read these for myself? I might learn something...

curious housemouse, who likes to read other's opinions, but then decide for herself.....

.....................................

-- housemouse (jgj@nevermind.net), August 12, 1999.

housemouse,

A telling example . . Gary North on the justification of Genocide

(Before you read . . think gas chambers, think knocks on the door in the middle of the night, think "the dictatorship of the chosen people" vs "secular freedom under the constitution". In short, think HITLER, think STALIN, think TERROR.)

It occurs to me: Was Moses arrogant and unbiblical when he instructed the Israelites to kill every Canaanite in the land (Deut. 7:2; 20:16- 17)? Was he an "elitist" or (horror of horrors) a racist? No; he was a God-fearing man who sought to obey God, who commanded them to kill them all. It sounds like a "superior attitude" to me. Of course, Christians have been given no comparable military command in New Testament times, but I am trying to deal with the attitude of superiority--a superiority based on our possession of the law of God. That attitude is something Christians must have when dealing with all pagans. God has given us the tools of dominion.

Gary North, The Sinai Strategy: Economics and the Ten Commandments (Tyler, TX: Institute for Christian Economics, 1986), p. 214n

So, Gary's God says it's ok to wipe out millions of people if they don't agree with you. Now we know.

That help ?

GW

-- GaryWatcher (some@other.time.com), August 12, 1999.

Uncle D,

"The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant--baptism and holy communion-- must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel."

Gary North, Political Polytheism: The Myth of Pluralism (Tyler, TX: Institute for Christian Economics, 1989), p. 87.

Save room in your foxhole.

[If you want to learn more about North's theology, just do an Internet search on Christian Reconstructionism. North is a prolific author. Make your own call.]

Regards,

-- Mr. Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), August 12, 1999.

housemouse

This site is as good as any for info on North and his views:

http://www.serve.com/t hibodep/cr/y2k.htm

-- Hoffmeister (hoff_meister@my-deja.com), August 12, 1999.

I love you Polly/Trolls losers:

"The subject of the thread is "THANKS GARY NORTH!! MOST GI'S BECAME GI'S BECAUSE OF YOUR Y2K WARNINGS! "

You folks had an opportunity to set up a web site two years ago and present your side of the argument with thousands of articles, commentary and MUCH personal effort. The only thing you WEASELS can do is to attack Gary North on his religious views. What a bunch of sorry losers.

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 12, 1999.

I appreciate Gary North for his work in keeping me aware of what's going on. I find his religious beliefs incompatible with mine, however, I don't have a problem with them UNLESS someone comes along and tries to impose them on me. Then, I start loading the weapons.

-- Tim the Y2K nut (tmiley@yakko.cs.wmich.edu), August 12, 1999.

"The only thing you WEASELS can do is to attack Gary North on his religious views.

Religious views? The man wants to see people die who disagree with his narrow view of the world. That's not religion. How can you tinfoils support that?

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), August 12, 1999.

If it wasn't for Gary North, I would be up sh*t's creek without a paddle. Over two years ago at about 1:00 a.m. in the morning I turned the radio on and heard someone talking about Y2K and the computer bug. I couldn't believe what I was hearing, but the man's name was Gary North....and I haven't looked back since. It was overwhelming, an emotional roller coaster, the fear, the numbness, the trail to survival. I really don't care what his religious views are, I'm not here to judge him on that, I only care that he gives true and accurate information. And if he's wrong and we are wrong, and all the other doomers and experts are wrong, so what, I have lost nothing but gained a world of knowledge on how to survive the next disaster. I will always be grateful for the good service and work Gary has done.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 12, 1999.

"The man wants to see people die who disagree with his narrow view of the world."

Sounds just like the Pollyanna, head in the sand, DWGI crowd to ME!

North's religious views are absent on his Y2K site. People who are 'directed' to them, would have never been aware otherwise. North has provided people with an opportunity to view the potential of Y2K without the rose colored glasses the spinmeisters keep shoving in the faces of the Sheeple. That makes him a hero and I personally don't give a monkey's rump what HIS version of God is, I like mine just fine. This is Y2K....not some Bible study, Sunday school class!

Anyone ever notice how the 'optomistic' crowd just loves to change the subject?

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 12, 1999.

Y2K Pro--If killing people is not religion I don't know what is. How many religious wars can we name where people are killing each other in the name of God? Let's not go down that road okay?

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 12, 1999.

QUICK....spelling error! Before the Word Police come to take me away!

"optimistic"

:)

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 12, 1999.

Will Continue

It's not changing the subject. Whether the subject is Y2K or not, it makes sense for one to look at the context and background from which a pundit speaks.

North wants a theocracy. No ifs, ands or buts.

Knowing that, I filter and weigh his views on Y2K accordingly (i.e. I realize that he always gives the most pessimistic spin possible on every story). The truly scary part about Gary is that there are people who read what he writes and are unaware of his background.

-- Johnny Canuck (j_canuck.com@hotmail.com), August 12, 1999.

Gary North is scheduled to appear on Art Bell's broadcast the night of 8/19-8/20. It is usually available afterwards on Real Audio.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), August 12, 1999.

We are aware of Clinton's background and he's still president! Now isn't that a scary thought? The guy has mental problems and he's in charge! I fear him more than I do Gary North!

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 12, 1999.

Say Johnny Cannuck:

SPIN ...SPIN ....SPIN, you folks NEVER quit. The folks thanking Gary North here are sincere, intelligent and insightful, they can read between your lines!!

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 12, 1999.

On August 19th Gary North will be on Art Bell's Program, I think it's a little disheartening to read the knocks against his Christian beliefs, this man in my opinion s/be congratulated for stepping up and stating his thoughts and ideas. Because the news media is silent, our elected representatives are silent, this man has the balls to say "Wake Up America" people won't prepare, but they will remember! I don't research his religious postings, because I have my own, but I believe he is right on the mark with Y2K, take what you like and leave the rest. Judy

-- Judy (JUDYMARYE@aol.com), August 12, 1999.

LOL! LOL! Man, nothing like a thread with "Gary North" in the title to get the pollies to drop their masks. Even you, HOFFMEISTER -- shame, shame. You come across so LOGICAL usually, but obviously you are just as much on a "mission" as the rest of the "meme school of thought" Bonkers crowd.

Gary North has always challenged ANYONE to simply create a web site that references the SAME DOCUMENTATION that he does at www.garynorth.com, but put THEIR OWN (polly) commentary on it. NOBODY EVER HAS. You read the idiotic polly/troll/Bonkers responses on this thread, it is very obvious why: All show, no go.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), August 12, 1999.

Judy, you just gave me a flashback . .

It went like this . .

On August 19th (Adolf Hitler) will be on (Gunther) Bell's radio Program, I think it's a little disheartening to read the knocks against his (Nazi) beliefs, this man in my opinion s/be congratulated for stepping up and stating his thoughts and ideas. Because the news media is silent (-ced), our elected representatives are (useless), this man has the balls to say "Wake Up (Germany)" people won't prepare, but they will remember! I don't research his (ideological) postings, because I have my own, but I believe he is right on the mark with the (economy), take what you like and leave the rest. Jud (e) - Berlin 1936

Just 7 changes.

Lest we forget.

-- GaryWatcher (some@other.time.com), August 12, 1999.

I'm always amazed by those who can't seem to distinguish between Gary North's religious beliefs (which are protected as a right under the Constitution) and the Y2k problem.

You can filter through his religious slant by simply NOT reading his commentary. It's much tougher, however, to dispute the volumes of articles and testimony, etc. that has accumulated on his website. The fact that it weighs in on the side of pessimism regarding the Y2k problem is tough for some to overcome.

So, what straw is left to grasp for? Attack the man for his views on faith and religion. If, in his other writings, he was a naturalist who was fighting the clear-cutting of timber and old growth forests I'm sure he'd be attacked as a "tree-hugger."

Try to distinguish the difference between religion and Y2k. They don't necessarily go hand in hand.

I don't share Gary North's views on religion and, honestly, I find a lot of strength in diversity so I would find it difficult to live in a place where everyone held a single belief. Does this mean I can't agree with him on Y2k? Where is the logic in that line of reason?

I stand with Uncle D.

I'll be in the trenches if the need arises and fight against a move toward any theocracy. However, and talk about true irony, I would also fight to defend the right of Gary North or anyone else (except hate groups) to hold their own religious views without fear of persecution or attack. And, the way I see it, there's a lot of beauty in that irony.

Mike

====================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), August 12, 1999.

Yes, thank you Dr. Gary North. I and my wife immediately began preparing after first reading your site a year ago or so. We have left the city of Atlanta and have stored provisions in the woods of Tennessee.

It is interesting to me the mix in religion in the comments about this thread. It is a religious belief of mine that there is coming a world wide revolution. This belief came to me before I heard of Dr. North or his brand of Presbyterianism. After first reading Dr. North's site I was struck with the fullfillment of the prophesy of Habakkuk.

This is from the New International Version of the Bible. I will only quote a small part but maybe those who are interested would like to look at the whole book.

chapter 2 verses 2-11 THE LORD'S ANSWER (to Habakkuk's second complaint) Then the Lord replied: "Write down the revelation and make it plain on tablets so that a herald may run with it. For the revelation awaits an appointed time; it speaks of the end and will not prove false. Though it linger, wait for it; it will certainly come and will not delay

See he is puffed up; his desires are not upright-but the righteous will live by his faith-indeed, wine betrays him; he is arrogant and never at rest. Because he is greedy as the grave and like death is never satisfied, he gathers to himself all the nations and takes captive all the peoples.

Will not all of them taunt him with ridicule and scorn, saying, Woe unto him who piles up stolen goods and makes himself wealthy by extortion! How long must this go on?" Will not your debtors suddenly arise? Will they not wake up and make you tremble? Then you will become their victim. Because you have plundered many nations, the people that are left will plunder you. For you have shed man's blood; you have destroyed lands and cities and everyone in them."

I think this is what the Lord is saying about the SYSTEM and it does go on from there. The point being that my religeous beliefs are not the same as Dr. Gary North but they do coincide with what he saying about Y2K.

Thanks again Dr. Gary North for saving our lives.

Sincerely,

Brother Gregory

-- brothergregory (brothergregory@hotmail.com), August 12, 1999.

Very good discussion! And it's about time we had it out. Maybe it's the closest we'll ever get to agreeing with Pro & the Bonkers. (And maybe let THEM sort out opposing Gary North from opposing y2k awareness and preparation?)

The question for me is:

Does being the guy (Gary North) who predicted the y2k (and/or banking) breakdown mean that YOU (& your co-believers) get to run things afterward?

Not necessarily, I think.

But:

What IS the pathway to power in a post-revolutionary situation?

Are Christian Reconstructionists the Bolsheviks who will seize power from the Mensheviks after the Czar is overthrown? (And give us a 70- year joyride in their own fantasyland?)

(I'll bet there are CRs and others who are studying that bit of history in order to model their own takeovers if opportunity presents. Little theocratic Lenins.)

Sure, Hitler predicted Weimar's downfall and wrote in Mein Kampf what he would do if given power. That does not logically mean that EVERY Mein Kampf-like author today will someday gain power.

Who stands with North, specifically, or what groupings of religious devotees have a likelihood of coalescing to seize power and coerce the rest of us into a life we don't want?

Are they now part of an infiltration plan, like the school curriculum board in Kansas who removed the teaching of evolution from that state's schools?

So far, North looks pretty isolated to me. But there may also be a power vacuum ahead, and some pretty opportunistic types who will put together the coalitions they need to climb on top.

Again, y2k is not necessarily their guaranteed ticket to power, but it exposes the vulnerability of the system as jerry-rigged today. Power may be more up for grabs by more hands than it has been. A populist current (within new elites cloak themselves) is always a possibility.

We need to watch out for the new theocrats, expose and oppose them as necessary. But it does not mean we need to sacrifice ourselves to prop up and protect the current regime from its own greed and stupidity.

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.uni), August 12, 1999.

TO Gary:

A lot of these people don't know their own republic and its dis- orders.

Most wouldn't believe that they were going to be shot with a gun barrel at their heads.

Thats why Gary has to keep getting peoples attention. Gary should worry you a lot, lot less than those that are in power and is taking you to the pit every day of your lives.

Those that without understanding of how the world and people works from history with a twist is blowing hot air.

GO Gary- I don't hear or see anybody else putting out the stats the way you do.

Because a king gives an order that you don't like shouldn't bother you if you have not displeased the king.

Lon

-- Lon (Lon1937@aol.com), August 12, 1999.

This is the same Gary North who recycles Y2K anecdotes. North provides a volume of information... but so does Y2Knewswire. Both North and Newswire use selective reporting (and large amounts of speculation disguised as objective information.) As much as the pessimists want to split North the Old Testament theocrat and North the Y2K herald... but they are the same person. North has been rabble-rousing for 20 years... predicting the end of the world. Now, is North just a naturally pessimistic fellow? Or does he have political ambitions, i.e. to institute an Old Testament theocracy in place of the current Republic? Given my reading of North... I'd favor the latter. North obviously feels his franchise on the Truth justifies his actions... including lying. Here's a bet for all takers, after Y2K Gary North will find another "end of the world" cause.

Regards,

-- Mr. Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), August 12, 1999.

Believe it or not, Mr. Decker is probably right about Gary North moving on to another End Of The World cause if Y2K turns out to be a non-event. That is his history; he is always looking for something that will end the world as we know it, so that his "remnant" can survive and thrive. Or something like that.

But when you are always looking for something that will be The End, because you want that, this does not preclude you from finding what you are looking for! The arguments continually presented seem to be of the form, "Since North wants the world to end, anything that he presents that affirms that, can simply be dismissed." The staggering amount of evidence that Y2K will be TEOTWAWKI -- much of it on North's web site -- just won't go away so easily. Sorry.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), August 12, 1999.

This is the deal.

Couple of years ago - or is seems like that far back, I heard GN on the art Bell show and what he said blew me away.

I immediately started devouring all things y2k, found this forum and csy2k and have been here ever since.

this is the question...

""THANKS GARY NORTH!! MOST GI'S BECAME GI'S BECAUSE OF YOUR Y2K WARNINGS!""

I think the answer is a vehement yes - he has done more in the USA than Cory, Ed, de Jeager, Yardeni etc. etc COMBINED.

Needless to say he has done infinitely more to warn folks than the reprehensible scumbags on this forum that preach a bitr - you know who you are (yeah a bitr, hence FEMA, executive orders release almost daily, cia reports, all police and fbi leave cancelled, airlines grounding planes, the banking pr campaign against taking your money out, military training for urban warfare, the IRS offices ordering thousands of guns, etc. etc. etc).

When ther is a fire in a theatre it matters not if the person shouting "fire!" is a secret mass murderer - the fact is whoever shouts "fire!" is saving lives for the common good. The secret mass muderer didn't have to shout "fire!", after all he could have added to his tally. But he did.

The trolls like decker and even hoff are pouncing on this one en masse because they know it pushes our collective buttons - hence they are pushing the religious angle.

I don't give a shit about gary's religious views - I doubt if he cares much about mine.

Once again this is the question [premise]...

""THANKS GARY NORTH!! MOST GI'S BECAME GI'S BECAUSE OF YOUR Y2K WARNINGS! ""

Not ONE Polly has answered it yet without bringing up RELIGION.

This shows how their blinkere minds work - they would make GREAT programmers - NOT!!!

For all the lame-assed pollies on this thread, if gary North was NOT responsible for most doomers(tm) "getting it" who the fuck was? Donald Duck? Pee Wee Herman?

Come on, we're ALL dying to know.

Who, if not Gary North???

Betcha no polly answers this one :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 12, 1999.

mother nacho: if you were honest you would date those quotes of Ruebens'. 96/97, since then adjusted acordingly.

ray: the only "line" you can read between is the crack in your ass, as you peek out of your pessimist bung-hole!

Andy: GN sure is "responsible" for scaring the hell out of clueless people who had NO BUSINESS even thinking about y2k. there lives would have gone on just fine without knowing about the "possibility" of y2k failures overblown into "absolute y2k failure" by a historian with NO TECHNICAL BACKROUND. If this would have stayed a technical /business issue, the new millenium could have been enjoyed by all without this irational fear of teotwawki.

-- anti-gary (willfeed@crow.tothe north boy), August 12, 1999.

Andy, Sorry, I'm not a polly. Although I suppose that someone who believes that y2k is TEOTWAWKI might consider me a polly, because I don't believe that. I believe that it COULD be TEOTWAWKI, but probably not.

You ask for someone to tell you "if gary North was NOT responsible for most doomers(tm) "getting it" who the fuck was? Donald Duck? Pee Wee Herman?"

I can assure you that Gary North was NOT responsible for my getting it. Au contraire. He made me think the whole y2k scene was a bunch of huey. The guy's views are too extreme. They are so incredibly far fetched, even WITHOUT his other agendas, that I, along with the majority of thinking people IMHO, are turned off by them.

So who WAS responsible for my getting it? The federal government!!!! When Uncle Willy announced the y2k toll free number and website, I checked out the website. Some of the things there made me reevaluate my dismisal of y2k's seriousness. Then I called the gov't 800 number-- it was a group of recordings that were even more bland than a bitr. I beeped on through to a supervisor at that toll free number site, and asked him why the net site sounded so scary, and the phone messages were so soothing? He said he didn't know they were different--this guy admitted that he had not even READ the info at the web site.

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (al@ready.now), August 12, 1999.

Hey folks, is this not THE MOST ARROGANT STATEMENT YOU'VE EVER HEARD???

"Andy: GN sure is "responsible" for scaring the hell out of clueless people who had NO BUSINESS even thinking about y2k. there lives would have gone on just fine without knowing about the "possibility" of y2k failures overblown into "absolute y2k failure" by a historian with NO TECHNICAL BACKROUND. If this would have stayed a technical /business issue, the new millenium could have been enjoyed by all without this irational fear of teotwawki."

YOU, Sir, are an arrogant numbskull, wher do you get off "protecting" us nit wits who are too stupid to work things out for ouselves???

Talk about the dumbing down of America... YOU Sir are the epitome of this policy,

WHAT a freakin MAROON!

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 12, 1999.

Al commented:

"So who WAS responsible for my getting it? The federal government!!!! When Uncle Willy announced the y2k toll free number and website, I checked out the website. "

Al, just picked myself up off the floor after reading this the third time!!

The Federal government was RESPONSIBLE for you getting it??

May I ask what you got??

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 12, 1999.

Sure, Ray,

Got a mind to tell you to get back down on the floor where you belong!

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (al@ready.now), August 12, 1999.

Al, I think I know what you learned from the Federal government !!

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 12, 1999.

Had it not been for a 'friend' sending me the tape of Gary North on Art Bell, I think it was his radio show, (i passed the tape onto others), I would still be clueless as to y2k. Although extreme at times, I daily read his postings before I come here. There are some here who are extreme also, but Gary is the man...... he pointed me to Mr. Yourdon., I read his book., I am preparing because of both. Thanks guys.

-- consumer (private@aol.com), August 12, 1999.

Gary is the ultimate IRONY: unassailably credible and yet his own worst enemy.

He has caused more people to "Get It" than any other, and has simultaneously caused more people to "Refuse to Get It" than any other.

-- mabel (mabel_louise@yahoo.com), August 12, 1999.

On one hand, Gary's provided a lot of good info and resources. For that he gets a 10.
Ont the other hand, Gary's been one of the main culprits to cause a lot of people to think Y2K is some wacko white ring...er, excuse me...that's right wing theory. With his political/religious agenda oozing out of his every orifice, he makes Y2K look like just the latest spin on Christian Fundamentalist assertions that the apocalypse is coming. For that he gets a -10.
Gary's pretty much of a wash, when it comes to providing info to the uninitiated. However, if you've been properly warned, his site serves as a pretty good jumping off point.

Then again, maybe I'm missing the point. Maybe it's really Gary's fondest wish and most determined intention that no one to the left of Jerry Falwell does anything to prepare. What a great way to assure white, um, right wing hegemony.
Hmmmmmm...one more conspiracy theory, to throw into the hopper...

-- Bokonon (bokonon@my-deja.com), August 12, 1999.

I second what Al K. Lloyd says. Until I saw the U.S. Chamber of Commerce's video on Y2K, I was leaning toward thinking that it was just all a lot of Fundy Neo-Fascist claptrap.
In retrospect, the video was a bit of a soft sell, but just acknowledging that there could be a serious problem, was enough to get me to look a little deeper.
The Feds certainly have every motivation to say, Hey, no problem!", but yet, there they were, at least stating the possibility of things getting ugly. Gary had no credibility, with me, prior to that, because the guy's just BEGGING for an apocalypse.

-- Bokonon (bokonon@my-deja.com), August 12, 1999.

this thread is hilarious

-- entertainment :-) (read@garys good.links), August 12, 1999.

Gary North for a Congreesional Medal of Honor (he possibly would refuse it because of the rogues that would present it to him)

Rarely, in the spin-control country that we live in, that someone with this amount of reason, logic, and and good ole' common sense been there to counter the day-to-day lying. For me, his devotion has kept me focused when I needed to be. For pollies and others, getting fed the truth is upsetting to a lie diet rich denial and warped phylosophy. It has always amazed me that more people haven't seen the obvious through the thousands of pieces of documentation on the site. It shows how truly stupid and naive many Americans are. They actually believe or want to believe a government with Bill Klinton at the helm. You don't deserve the security and safety that is promised.

They attack Gary's faith, but that's all they have to cling to sadly.

-- PJC (paulchri@msn.com), August 12, 1999.

It sure is hilarious!

Gary fuckin' North; "unassailably credible" bwwaaaahhhhhahaha!

yeah, sure.

-- hope the light comes on for you idiots some day (lights@on.nobody home), August 12, 1999.

It might just be prudent to wait a little longer before you give North any credit. Like after you know for certain whether Gary North saved your life or just made you look and act like an idiot. An awful lot of you sound a bit too much like patients fervently thanking the doctor who just gave them a lobotomy.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), August 12, 1999.

And you'd know all about lobotomies Flint. Did you thank the doc???

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 12, 1999.

A couple of comments on GN:

(1) I read his pages every day (as well as other Y2K sites). And I;ve learned a lot from him. But as many of you have mentioned, he (and his religious/philosophical views) scare the **#$@ out of me. As a friend of mine said "Which would scare you more coming down your driveway - a crazed team of BATF/FBI folks with torches... or Gary North and his band of Christian Reconstructionists?" I couldn't decide - it;s a tough call...

(2) One of the few times I've seen him discuss religion on his Y2K site (as opposed to his ICE site - yikes!) is when a good friend of mine posted a well-rounded series of sermons on Y2K, of which a part spoke of the Y2K fringe (and of course mentioned GN). North got a copy and went abso-bloody-lutely ballistic, ranting and raving like I've NEVER seen in his pages (you may remembe the rant - it was 8 Jul 1999 - see http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/detail_.cfm/5339). (see http://www.ib-ent.com/y2k.htm for the whole text of the sermons - they're quite good).

(3) When I found out more about GN (i.e., more than he puts forth in his Y2K site) I felt obliged to send the following EMail to colleagues to whom I'd been sending pointers to his site. It is:

A Full Disclosure

In the past, I have sent you various URLs from Gary North's Y2K Web site. Now, I think all of us would quickly agree that Gary is the king of gloom 'n' doom on the subject of Y2K (in fact, he's sometimes referred to as "Scary Gary"). And his comments often contain a bit of religious overtones. Now, I'm personally not religious, but a lot (perhaps even "most") of folks are, so this didn't bother me. In fact, some of his suggestions (e.g., get your local church involved w/ Y2K preparations) seemed to be a pretty good idea.

The latest issue of Time Magazine (Time, as Time-Warner, the Time Man of the Year, etc.) has "Y2K/Millenium Madness" on its cover. The stories inside mention that Gary North is a religious nutcase. When I read this, I was alarmed, but since I'd never seen any indication of it in his site, I figured I'd better not take their word for it before jumping to conclusions. So I did some Web research.

Well

If anything, TIME under-played the facts. And it seems likely that the name "Scary Gary" has nothing to do with his Y2K beliefs.

The following information is from anti-North sites, but also from his own non-Y2K site, and from quotes from his publications.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm http://nova.smu.edu/garynorth.htm http://www.serve.com/thibodep/cr/words.htm http://www.reformed-theology.org/ice/

North is a leader of a philosophy called Christian Reconstructionism, which believes that society, particularly in the United States, has seriously degenerated morally and religiously and must be totally rebuilt to Old Testament Biblical standards. The principles are:

7 All religions other than Christianity would be suppressed. 7 Nonconforming Evangelical, main line and liberal Christian institutions would no longer be allowed to function. 7 Society would revert to the laws and punishments of the Hebrew Scriptures. 7 The use of the death penalty would be greatly expanded, when the Hebrew Scriptures' laws are reapplied. People will be executed for adultery, blasphemy, heresy, homosexual behavior, idolatry, prostitution, evil sorcery, etc. Presumably that would be done by stoning people to death or burning them alive, as the Bible requires. 7 An individual who does not accept the Mosaic Law has another god before them, and is thus guilty of idolatry. That would be punishable by death. That would include all non-Christians. At the present time, they total two-thirds of the human race. 7 Any person who advocated or practiced other religious beliefs would be tried for idolatry and exterminated. 7 Civil laws must match the Bible's moral rules. That is, anything that is immoral (by their standards) is also to be criminalized. 7 They oppose "inter-religious, inter-racial, and inter-cultural marriages". 7 One of the tasks of Christians is to replace Judaism with Christianity. "The god of Judaism is the devil. The Jew will not be recognized by God as one of His chosen people until he abandons his demonic religion and returns to the faith which embraces Jesus Christ." 7 The status of women would be reduced to almost that of a slave as described in the Hebrew Scriptures. 7 The institution of slavery would be reintroduced, and regulated according to Biblical laws. Fathers could sell their daughters into slavery. 7 Polygamy and the keeping of concubines would be logically permitted as well. 7 Legal abortions would be banished; those found to be responsible for illegal abortions would be executed.

To our knowledge, this is the only religious movement in North America in which many of its members advocate genocide for followers of minority religions. Ralph Reed, the executive director of the conservative public policy group the Christian Coalition has criticized Reconstructionism as "an authoritarian ideology that threatens the most basic civil liberties of a free and democratic society."

And astoundingly enough, North WANTS Y2K to be as bad a possible. He says:

"So, of course I want to see y2k bring down the system, all over the world. I have hoped for this all of my adult life. The y2k crisis is systemic. It cannot possibly be fixed. I think it will wipe out every national government in the West. Not just modify them -- destroy them. I honestly think the Federal government will go under. I think the U.S.A. will break up the way the U.S.S.R. did. Call me a dreamer. Call me an optimist. That's what I think. This will decentralize the social order. That is what I have wanted all of my adult life. In my view, y2k is our deliverance."

So THIS is the reason he refuses to grant interviews (he says it's because he can't spare the time).

And THIS is why he never mentions his religious/philosophical views on his Y2K Web site. They are so virulent/nuts that he'd lose most (if not ALL) of his readership.

And all those 50+ books he says he's written - it seems they're crazed Reconstructionist rantings.

Oboy.

Now, the ad hominem fallacy warns us not to ignore someone's ideas, just because they happen to be nuts. And North may actually BE RIGHT about the level of impending doom that Y2K will cause. BUT, his writings must be taken in the context of the fact that HE WANTS Y2K TO BE AS POSSIBLE. AND CREATING PUBLIC PANIC WOULD BE NICE WAY TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.

So read his stuff. Use it as a thought exercise for imagining worst-case scenarios. He does have some good ideas about how to prepare for Y2K.

Just remember he has a hidden agenda. He's literally praying for Y2K to be the end of the world as we know it.

-- Hugh (hewiggins@mindspring.com), August 12, 1999.

Read North for years, and I think you are missing it if you don't understand that Gary spent many years at the FEE (Foundation for Economic Education) in NY. He is for decentralization, as any libertarian (small L). Now, if there are a group of people who agree to a visible theocracy, will they allowed to practice their politics if we lived in a libertarian world? Can you stop a group of people from freely assenting? No, and this goes for liberal, communistic idealists as well. If y2k bites bad, we will be living de facto in a libertarian world. You will be able to pick the type of government of your preference. Period. And all this arguing about "theocracy=Nazism" will be remembered as an idle waste of time.

-- Jim the Window Washer (Rational@man.com), August 12, 1999.

Hey you know what - I looked closely at my can of Hartz Polly-off spray - guess what the active ingredient is? Yep:

1-3-trans-1-tetrahyrogarynorthenol

-- a (a@a.a), August 12, 1999.

OT OT OT READ AT YOUR OWN PERIL!!!

One question I've had for a long time as an old raio buff:

What's the deal with Bell suddenly getting all the late night franchises? You used to be able to get a full pallet of radio hosts in the late night hours, now I get one 50,000 watter & Bell infinitum. Coincidence or conspiracy?

-- flora (***@__._), August 12, 1999.

ROTFL! This really is a funny thread! :-) Hi Consumer! Good to see you!

Gary North didn't help me get it. It was Peter Jennings! Yes, you read that right. ABC Nightly News did a segment on Y2K in April, and one in May of 1998. Ed Yourdon and Gary North were both on the segment in May. Although I had heard the term Y2K before, it was at that point that I "Got It."

Gary North spoke at a church in Houston in August of last year. I was really excited about going to hear him. Maybe he was just having a bad night, but he was a JERK! One example: A man in the audience asked what was going to happen if he was unable to get his prescription medicines. Gary North told him, "You're going to DIE!" Now, I understand being "frank," and I understand "shock value" but believe me, the way he responded to that man was CRUEL! Many got up and walked out. I do appreciate the effort of getting out information back when there was no one else doing it, but I am NOT fond of the man. AT ALL!

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), August 12, 1999.

Although I did not become a GI because of Gary North, when I discovered his web site I was initially turned off. However, the more I researched and thought about Y2K and its ramifications, the more I began to understand his extreme viewpoints and conclusions.

I now have my browser's start page set to launch Gary North's latest links, and I'm continually astonished at his witty writing style. This man churns out Y2K commentary on a constant stream of energy.

I've never met Gary North in person, but I'm amazed how one American Christian could so powerfully influence millions of people to think for themselves and rise about the noxious mediocrity of brainwashing propaganda from the government and media and corporations.

God bless Gary North!

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), August 12, 1999.

Hugh,

answer the friggin question, enough with the religion already will ya?

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 12, 1999.

I don't care what Gary North's religion is. The only thing that counts is that he woke up a lot of people to Y2K. I am usually asleep before my head hits the pillow. For some strange reason, one night last fall I couldn't sleep. I got up, turned on the radio and Art Bell was speaking to Gary North. That really woke me up. I truly believe that the Lord kept me awake that night so I could prepare and take care of my little ones. Without Gary, many of up may have never got it.

-- Homeschooling Grandma (mlaymon@glenn-co.k12.ca.us), August 13, 1999.

I just hope and pray that Gary North isn't too much of a "Polly" in his predictions!

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), August 13, 1999.

I'm sorry, but North dispenses flagrantly one-sided, distorted propaganda of the worst stripe. He makes the government look like the soul of objective truth.

What's amusing is that so many doomies who bitch about spin and 'official' dishonesty are falling all over themselves to endorse exactly these same techniques, stretched to their most vicious form. This is the essence of hypocritical -- that so long as mendacity is being employed in *your* favor, it's fine and wonderful and God Bless this liar!

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), August 13, 1999.

Flint,

The ONLY thing you WEASELS can do is attack the messenger. I have not seen one of you SHILLS discuss the forums and thousands of articles he has provided for folks wanting to learn about y2k.

You sir have provided ***NOTHING*** to assist anyone, with the exception of a continuous flow of DRIVEL *subtely* attempting to convince folks that y2k will be a BITR. This sir is PROPAGANDA in its finest form!!

Your Pal,Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 13, 1999.

Flint -- sorry, you're wrong again. North has a distinct, clear, explicit philosophy and point-of-view. No spin, nothing hidden. The sheer fact that everyone on this thread is relatively clear about North's agenda is to the point.You can love it, hate it, sift it out or do whatever you like. This is 180 degrees different than government and media.

This, by the way, is how most media used to be decades ago. Then, in the name of "objectivity" (the then politically correct phrase), a phony attempt began to hide or soften editorial stance. Now, media reintroduce their agendas in a serpentine way through their supposedly objective news coverage as much or more than through their masthead editorials. Time's coverage earlier this year of Y2K could be introduced as a trivial instance but one that regulars to this forum will recognize. This method is so pervasive that it is no longer even "noticed", which is one of the reasons it has poisoned our culture.

I can easily reject North's political agenda while benefiting from what he posts. This is what adults do. I have a much harder time analyzing and judging your agenda because it is cloaked in pseudo-objectivity (though I appreciate it greatly that you have been posting your convictions more clearly in the past month, for instance, that Y2K's impacts will be societally insignificant).

On this board, people like a, INVAR, Hoff and Maria make it possible to engage in meaningful dialogue, not because they don't change their minds from time to time but because they stand by their convictions and communicate them clearly without hiding, spinning or manipulation. Ditto North.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), August 13, 1999.

Spin? Hypocrisy? The distinction that Flint does not make for us is that the Government has the power of state violence to enforce its agenda after its propaganda alone has not worked sufficiently to its liking.

Gary North -- or you, or I -- have only the power to flap our gums, or keyboards, and you can take it or leave it as you see fit.

That is why government has a greater responsibility to be "honest", have "integrity", and other things our Constitution tried to enshrine for the centuries ahead.

On the religion angle, I still haven't heard anyone mention just how powerful the Reconstructionist contingent is, or is likely to become under any y2k scenario.

From the point of view of Christians among us, are there any religious factions we ought to be aware of?

I kind of stopped worrying about a Fundamentalist takeover when Jim Bakker got caught with his secretary (what WAS her name?) and Jimmy Swaggart got caught out behind the motel with the hooker (in his own car that EVERYBODY in town recognized!).

I figured these guys have enough problems that a month of Sundays' preachin' wouldn't fix. But I also figured that one day, one of them might be able to keep his pants on long enough to do some damage.

Maybe one value of GN is to get the rest of us interested in looking in, prophylactively of course, on what our tolerance-challenged brethren are cooking up?

Say, didn't Gary marry the daughter of the CR founder -- Rushdoony, I think the name is? Maybe Gary's got enough problems of his own at home... ?

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.uni), August 13, 1999.

Pretty much by definition, the good histories, are written by someone who is NOT technically competent in the subject being chronicled. A GOOD historian is, first and foremost, a RESEARCHER, one who can find and identify a fact. Or more than one. The good historian is ALSO a SYNTHESIST, one who can rub two or three facts together, and (no, not start a fire, thoiugh that HAS happened)develop a PICTURE, which (s) he then presents to the reader in an inteligible way.

ref Gary's "facts" as posted on his site. I tend to read the intro's he has, nore for entertainment and sinopsis value (more the former). If I'm looking for data, I don't bother with the intro, I just click through to the document, usually written by someone else, that tends (not always but typically) to be what should be considered data.

then I get to rub that "data" against the "data" I have collected so far, and see if combustion or synthesis occurs.

Chuck

BTW LOTS of people have forgotten something Allistair Begg pointed out in one of his sermons:[aproximate quote] Now I'm just a little stranger from across the pond, but I find it interesting to listen to Pat Buchanan and the rest of them talking about running on a platform of making Christ's Kingdom real here and now. Don't they rememeber that Christ said "My Kingdom is not of this world"?? Don't they rememeber that the injunction was NOT to try to build His Kingdom, for such an effort would be doomed to failure?? That it must be built in our HEARTS and not our COUNTRY?

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), August 13, 1999.

I thought we had religious freedom in this country. We all have our own religious philosophy, but when I tell you the truth about a matter do you discount my words because I differ from your religious beliefs?

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 13, 1999.

Jor-El, I can't claim to be expert on North though we both studied at Westminster Theological Seminary and acknowledge the same theological apologist as guru, Cornelius Van Til. North did marry Rushdooney's daughter but split with the latter when he made just about everything center on restoration of the "family". That's inside baseball, though.

Reconstructionism does not have broad appeal within even the reformed tradition that North comes from, though some of its eschatology ("post-millenialism") as contrasted with its reinterpretation of the Old Testament is a variant of stuff that goes through the centuries.

Christianity has never had a unitary position on political issues, though there have been times when greater or less consensus certainly obtained. Basically, Christians are as fragmented as the rest of our culture and, in some ways, more so.

Putting it another way, Christians are as prone as anyone else to the temptation to continue ceding their liberty to forms of control (government, business and media) that mean no good to ANY of us. By comparison to that largely unseen, misunderstood and, worse, often welcomed, juggernaut, Gary North and his few fellow-travelers are just a blip. Indeed, North is probably quite servicable to that same juggernaut as harmless entertainment.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), August 13, 1999.

It makes me very sad to see the word christian and gary north used in the same sentence. make that paragraph, no post! The two could not be further apart. north has no idea who God is. he has his interpretation but that is meaningless.

The bible talks about those like north, "they see godliness as a means to financial gain" and "having a form of godliness, but dening its power". enough on him, he is not worth the calories burned to move my fingers to type. God will deal with him.

CHUCK: I like your last comment there, very good point! too often overlooked by fringe groups that twist the Scriptures to their own destruction.

-- Bible Thumper (Jesus@is.God), August 13, 1999.

BD -- thanks, that was my outsider's take, too. A blip.

No one else sees any rising fascist currents within religious movements?

So I can just appreciate GN for his dry wit and scathing critiques, OK? A good read is worth much these days.

Chuck -- it's worth repeating...

"Don't they rememeber that Christ said "My Kingdom is not of this world"?? Don't they rememeber that the injunction was NOT to try to build His Kingdom, for such an effort would be doomed to failure?? That it must be built in our HEARTS and not our COUNTRY? "

So, why try?

Because humans are a perverse animal? The lust for power burns in many human souls? The scripture will be twisted into rhetoric to accommodate that lust?

I've always wondered how they got past "Thou shall not kill", whatever the translation of the important verb.

Back to y2k?

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.uni), August 13, 1999.

Hi to you also Gayla. Wow., this thread sure has enlightened me some!! And Gayla, what happened at that meeting was on the brutal side. I for one hope and pray that GN is wrong about alot of stuff, but my real point was that he scared me enough to look into this thing called y2k, and for that I give credit where it is due. I often visit other sites, as Cory's is most informative, but ya know, who do you believe? The media is silent, once in awhile we get a treat of truth buried in the business section of the Plain Squealer, opps Plain Dealer, but not plain truth. Anyway, too much going on here in Cleveland such as the upcoming KKK rally what a mess.....Chuck, your thoughts on that? My son is EMT for private ambulance company now being asked to cover for Cleve EMS, they are expecting major problems. I sure hope it gets cancelled.

-- consumer (private@aol.com), August 14, 1999.

North, if the truth be known, only contributes to a person getting it. Remember Yourdon's book online? Remember Westergaard articles with Rick Cowles and Jim Lord? Remember year2000.com with de Jager when he was shouting doom? Remember Yardeni shouting recession? Remember Hamasaki's weather reports? Remember Olmstead and Hyatt, the weathermen, and the forums like North's and this one? Remember Horn, and Bennett? No one got it from one man.....if you did you're dumb. It was the weight of the evidence. It was Gartner and CSIS on CSPAN.

The day I got off the couch and started preparing was when Cowles in Jan of 98 came out with the article that there was a 100% chance of power disruptions in 2000. He hasn't changed his mind folks. It's the powergrid stupid....I had to keep telling myself. Oh yeah, remember Roleigh Martin?

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), August 14, 1999.

Almost never read Garys site. And could care less about his religious viewpoints. (Same as I would ignore those of most posting here). Thats a persons private choice--and a mountain with many pathways.

As far as I can tell, GN didnt invent Y2K. We have it courtesy of IBM and standardization choices made (and pushed heavily) by none other that the DoD.

Ironic, huh?

Actually I thank Ed Yourdon and both the U.S. Federal Government and the United Nations for Y2K getting it.

Without the countless GAO reports, Congressman Horns House Committee testimony, Senators Bennett and Dodds Y2K Committee hearing testimony, the USIA reports, FEMAs web-site, the White House web-site and all the Executive Orders, the dot mil web-sites--including all the National Guard stuff and the Marines Urban Warrior & Warfare Lab info--and Naval War College, and all the Fed Agency buried Y2k web- site info and finally even the Fed IT news watchdogs--Federal Computer Week--Id be clueless. Like 1/2 the planet.

Lastly, Id like to thank John Koskinen. Because when his lips move, I look for what he (et. al.) didnt say domestically, but DID say to an international audience... or in agency meeting notes.

Actions... speak louder... etc. ... if you look behind the public face.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), August 14, 1999.

Consumer, why is there a KKK rally in Cleveland? About Gary North, I haven't heard of too many other people on this board who have actually met and listened to him in person. I think they would really be surprised. I have to agree with Bible Thumper that it makes me sad to hear Gary North and Christian in the same sentence. If he was charged (in court) with being a Christian, there wouldn't be enough evidence to convict him, in my opinion! Still, I appreciate the information he provides.

BB, I started preparing for economic disruption before I even knew about Y2K. So, whatever happens with Y2K won't change my preps. :-)

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), August 14, 1999.

Diane, thanks for a very coherent answer. Although I "got it" first from the fed y2k site and 800 number, I confirmed it through many of the sources you mentioned.

This forum was certainly the most comprehensive source of good (and bad, unfortunately) information of any.

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (al@ready.now), August 14, 1999.