Let's say it is 2/1/00. Food and water problems are quite severe. You have planned and stored adequate food etc. for your family. The police, national guard, FEMA, (you pick it) drive up to your house, knock, and ask to search your home for food and water purifying equip. for they are needed at the local shelter. If they take your food, your family must leave or starve.

This could likely happen. Door to door searches. Do you submit, fight, or ? A couple of my friends and I have discussed this at length and we don't like the potential outcomes. Is there a good, solid, logical solution? The time for planning & decision making is not in the middle of the night, 2/1/00, with the authorities at the door. Thank you for your input.

-- Ding Dong (whatif@theycome.com), August 10, 1999

Answers

If they disregarded the 'Looters will be shot' sign, then shootem!

-- Porky (Porky@in.cellblockD), August 10, 1999.

Board your house up and DON'T answer the door. The fed's don't have enough personnel around to go door-to-door searching for food and supplies. Another reason NOT to have a generator. Don't do or say anything to draw attention to yourself or family. Mums the word! Make sure you have some backup stash buried in your backyard, and don't get the D-Con mixed up with the oatmeal.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 10, 1999.

Read up on your Fouth Amendment rights and if they get violated then resort to your Second Amendment rights. It's the American way and never let anybody , in uniform or not, try to convince you otherwise.

FYI:

4th Amendment to the US Constitution:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or Affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

I think you know what the Second Amendment says.

Remember these are inalieble rights that can not be revoked, since they were never "given", we all retain these rights from when we are born until the day we die. They are inherit and support our way of life.

Peace out

-- (not@a threat. to society), August 10, 1999.

This is assuming Martial Law has been imposed and all search and seizure laws have been suspended? If you get wind of this kind of thing, look like nobody is home or bug out already. Hide your stuff, I guess. I tend to think its going to be kind of hard for government forces to be this organized in the dead of winter if the enlisted show up for duty at all...Personally Im not answering my door to anybody I don't recognize, uniformed or not. If they break in, they will be meeting Ms. Remington 870.

I'm not spending much time worrying about this, (too busy worrying about other aspects) but my answer is evasion/avoidance is the safest bet regarding any post Y2K related conflicts.

-- (y2kfallback@yahoo.com), August 10, 1999.

Ding,

Hmmm...lets see, 280 million Americans in 180 million homes being searched by at MOST 2 million army/police/nat.guard. I don't think it can be done if even a fraction of the people resist. 80 million homes have one or more gun in them. If half of those meet force with force you're talking about 20:1 odds (at the very least). If one or two FEMA (or whatever) agents get shot each day doing house to house searches they're going to run out of agents real fast.

I'm not advocating wanton shooting here. If they come and ask and I have enough to share, then I will. But if they (or anybody else for that matter) come and make demands under threat of force, they will be shot. There will be at least 8 adults in my house, each armed, each protecting the welfare of their children and their families. I can guarantee you that none of us wants to shoot anyone and none of us wants to get shot. But we have discussed this and have agreed that we will do what we must.

I sincerely hope it never comes to that.

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), August 10, 1999.

I won't be there.

-- CygnusXI (noburnt@toast.net), August 10, 1999.

IM with you TECH 32, theres no way after veiwing documents that show how people in different size groups gett along,after a small amount of time...Strangers...crying...swearing...crapping....snezzing.....snorri ng....farting.....sardines....and thats assuming the evac center has lights, heat, water, toilets, cots,food...etc,etc... You cannot house every one you remove from there house...good luck.sorry about the spelling.

-- Les (yoyo@tolate.com), August 10, 1999.

When I lived in Cleveland we all learned to keep $20 in the wallet for the mugger and the other $200 somewhere else.

If the authorities set out to confiscate property they will NOT knock on your door and ask nicely. They will shoot first and tell whatever stories they need to later. The favorite time for such assaults is about 4:30 in the morning.

Offsite storage is a must. Let them think they have cleaned you out, then let them worry about what's BEHIND them :)

BTW- One nice thing about having radios is that no such thing will happen around here without my neighbors telling me about it beforehand.

-- Forrest Covington (theforrest@mindspring.com), August 10, 1999.

From the tone of this thread, I wonder if computers are the only things going bye bye in January.

I sense a confidence, trust and respect for authority at an all time low. I certainly hope that it doesn't come to that because there are large numbers of very alienated people in this country.

People think the low voter turnout is from apathy...what happens if it is from ANTIPATHY???

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@It's ALL going away in January.com), August 10, 1999.

K.Stevens brings up an interesting side issue: how pissed off is John Q. Public going to be in general at the Powers That Be, should Y2K turn out to be the huge disaster that a lot of us think it will be, rather than the "bump in the road" that is being advertised? At this point, most people understand -- at least a rudimentary level -- that Y2K may cause computer problems that potentially could affect everything including power, clean water, etc. However, John Q. has also been assured that the effect of these problems will be just a passing storm of perhaps three days duration. When three days turns to three weeks to even three months, those "3-day storm" warnings that were issued are going to be remembered quite well. And quite angrily. As in, "How could they have deluded us?"

As far as the primary topic of this thread, the best way in addition to the advice given, to prevent this problem is to be located in a secluded enough area so that there won't really be any "local" shelters that need anything that you might have. And to try to come to where you live is simply too far. And too dangerous.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), August 10, 1999.

We are just about ripe for the theories and tactics of demagogues.

-- flora (***@__._), August 10, 1999.

Let's hope that door to door searches are not necessary. What makes a government agent any different from a looter when they want to take what you need to live on?

I don't want to cause trouble, but if anyone comes to steal what we need to live on (we will help neighbors out if we can), then they will be introduced to Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson.

-- peace lover (peace@lover.com), August 10, 1999.

Tresspassers will be shot,survivers will be shot again.

-- Daryll (twincrk@hotmail.com), August 11, 1999.

I just can't see widespread door-to-door search parties. There won't be enought people to do the searching. In our small town of 5,ooo, we have at most 8-10 policemen. The people on the city counsel know that when things get better, and they will someday, they will have to run for reelection. They don't dare piss off the voters that way. Almost everyone in town knows everyone else or one of their relatives. We have had to set up shelters at the fairgrounds in the past because of flooding. The entire community helps out. Some families donate toys, vidios, warm clothes and blankets. Local clubs help out with cooking. People take in in pets for families who have to move into the shelters.

The military/police will be too busy keeping the peace and responding to emergancies to go about searching people's homes. Remember, they are just ordinary folks, with families and friends to worry about. It's the looters we have to worry about.

-- Homeschooling Grandma (mlaymon@glenn-co.k12.ca.us), August 11, 1999.

TECH32 says - Hmmm...lets see, 280 million Americans in 180 million homes being searched by at MOST 2 million

True, but if only 1 in a thousand has actually prepared in any serious fashion, the odds become quickly worse IMHO. This could be the biggest crime against us ever. I'm planning on helping as much as I can, but only as I see prudent, and only without causing suffering for those I have worked soo hard to protect.

-- Michael (mikeymac@uswest.net), August 11, 1999.

Michael,

True, but if only 1 in a thousand has actually prepared in any serious fashion, the odds become quickly worse IMHO.

How so? Do you think that an unprepared, yet armed person is going to allow the police into their home so they can rip it apart looking for their last 3 cans of soup? I doubt it. Besides, I think it's more like 1 in 20, not 1 in 1000, that are seriously preparing (stocking up on 2+ weeks of food, etc.)

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), August 11, 1999.

TECH32 -

Yep, if they may offer some help in your unprepared, frightened state, possibly offering shelter locations and sharing in others hard earned supplies, they'll gladly go.

I can't say for sure, just what the actual figures are, but at our last Y2K community Conversation metting here in Portland, there were maybe 50 in attendance from the community. We have approx 1.2 million folks in the area, so I base my concept, however unscientific, on my observations. Wouldn't you expect more?

I wish 100% of us had had the chance to make *informed* decisions with regards to preps. We didn't, and my guess is the numbers would have been much greater if we had.

-- Michael (mikeymac@uswest.net), August 11, 1999.

Government officials looking to rip-off my supplies wouldn't worry me nearly as much as neighbors with guns, local vigilante groups, and militia nuts. Being up in the hills before the date change seems to offer the best chance for survival, and that's what I'm going to do. I'll still have to contend with roving bands of looters, but them's the breaks.

-- screwfly (screwfly@hotmail.com), August 11, 1999.

There wont'be random door-to-door searches. The will use the LISTS (Schindler's). Gun registration lists. Product warranty registration lists. Credit card purchase data lists. Banking "know your customer" "unusual" transaction lists...

-- A (A@AisA.com), August 11, 1999.

if they are going to use 'the lists,' then they better print out hard copies before the end of the year! ;-)

-- J (jart5@bellsouth.net), August 11, 1999.

A few million hunters will have to consider their options after this hunting season. Most apply for licenses. I don't own one, but most of my buddies that do, have multiples.

I wouldn't want the job of trying to take them away from them either!!

-- Michael (mikeymac@uswest.net), August 11, 1999.

You don't need to go door to door. If Y2K kills the lights and heat and keeps people from getting food, people will go voluntarily to those shelters. They certainly won't be taking their guns with them, and while they're in the shelters, the thugs can search their homes at their leisure. Those who stay because they don't need handouts will be shot.

Scary, huh?

-- Tim the Y2K nut (tmiley@yakko.cs.wmich.edu), August 12, 1999.