OK, maybe I missed it, but Black Helicopters...

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I saw a thread a week or so ago about someone commenting on seeing some black helicopters, in I think Dallas, but I can't find the thread...

I assume from the way she was flamed, some urban rumor that had been debunked was what triggered some fairly nasty responses.. guess I missed it.

About choppers, and my interest in them, I spent a few years in the 101st Airborne, one of the first of the old paratrooper units to switch to air assault, ie., insertion, extraction via helicopter... lived in and around the damn things for years... also live in So. California, where they are used heavily by the police, media, traffic reports, etc... also live next to two naval bases with frequent flights of various military birds...

In other words, I have a pretty good first hand knowledge of the shape, color & sound of a wide variety of choppers.

Today, in Ventura California, I saw 1 coal black bird, looked a bit like a Huey, headed SW straight over town, then again, right before sunset, another coal black huey like bird again on a SW... origon, from flight path, one of the Channel Islands...

I seem to recall some idiot saying that all choppers are black till painted... bullshit... they usually are white from the factory, as are most aircraft, a primer protective coat, tho the vast majority of the time they are painted at the factory before delivery because it is usually cheaper.... choppers and planes rust real fast without at least a primer coat...

So what gives? I'm not thinking some martial law conspiracy here, they're not even hiding, no stealth mode, just frigging black birds that look vaguely like the old Hueys with a coat of black shoe polish.... So whose are they?

Simple question, no conspiracy theories, a lot of people are suddenly seeing them, I've seen two today. Instead of asking me if I have my tinfoil hat on, why don't one of you rabid debunkers supply an answer to a simple question instead of ridicule and slander?

-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), August 06, 1999

Answers

Don't they use aluminum? [aircraft grade] Do you mean rust or corrosion?

-- treading litely (rs@marketwatch.com), August 06, 1999.

Rust, corrosion, creeping crud, whatevery you care to call it... back about 15 years ago I helped broker a couple of L100-30's, and the customer wanted to paint them thesleves, and Lockheed about shit, but finally agreed to the primer white, as they had to fly from Georgia, to France, then Benin....

Lockheed insisted they had to primer, as even a few days could cause damge...

Maybe they were stroking my client for a few extra bucks for a primer job, who knows, but in the end we said screw it and took them WHITE"... not looking for nit picky polly shit, got an answer?

-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), August 06, 1999.


Hey Carl, former SOG ground pounder here. Deep recon for you guys in `nam.

Don't mean to pick a fight with you but I worked for Bell Helicopter division for a while. The base color painted over the aluminum is always a Zinc Chromate primer (looks greenish Yellow). On top of that goes an epoxy based sealer which can be white or grey.

I don't know much about the black choppers these folks are seeing but I know this - look up in the sky at a white chopper with the bright sun behind it. Darned if it don't look black! Hooyah

-- (a@aaaa.hole), August 06, 1999.


Hooyah...

Well, you know more about the mechanics, but again, white or grey, not black...

Like I said I spent a lot of years in and around birds, the angle and different lighting today.. no optical illusion.. those muthers were BLACK... PERIOD...

Man, every time I bird goes over, I look up... lots of memories... but never have I seen a black bird except for on TV till today...

You want to tell me it was an optical illusion... well, bullshit...

1st of the 502nd, 101st Airborne, "Airborne!!!!"

Kiss my ass, I don't build them, but I sure know how to spot 'em...

-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), August 06, 1999.


http://fly.hiwaay.net/~prm/copter.html

-- yumppinn yiminny!! (happy@flyn.high), August 06, 1999.


Hey Yumppin...

Just the type of idiot jerk off response I was refering to... been saving that link boy? Now, if you have a real honest to god explanation, let's hear it...

I think we've kinda clarified that most birds, chopper or otherwise come from the factory white or grey primered... they might look black if your at the right angle looking up into the sun, which I wasn't by the way....

So let's move on, again, somebody got something to say out side of lame ass flames?

-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), August 06, 1999.


Bro there isn't a good answer for what you saw. I have seen Cobra gunships painted so dark that you would swear they were black. These birds were coming into Chicago's Midway airport to refuel about 10 years ago. There had to be twenty of them. All flying in single file - hovering a foot off the deck - just like a bunch of ground pounders marching single file. Had USMC and ANG insignias on them. Part of a training mission I would have to guess.

By the way I wasn't tryin to be a smart ass in my first message. If I meant to flame you, you woulda felt the heat. Hooyah!

-- (a@aaaa.hole), August 07, 1999.


Maybe some of you old timers here can help me out with a link.. been trying to find the link about the lady who say six black choppers, followed by a green army bird in I believe Dallas... I recall she was flamed pretty bad...

Also, looking for any responses to anyone else who has seen these, or might have links to what exactly they are... forget the "spraying" stuff, I'll believe that when I see it. Looking for facts, not troll droppings, thank you :)

-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), August 07, 1999.


FWIW

Black Helicopters Active In Many Areas Of The US From Joseph Trainor - Editor UFO ROUNDUP Vol. 3, No. 30 7-27-98

Black helicopters were sighted last week in Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and North Carolina. On Saturday, July 18, 1998, "an all-black helicopter with no markings" was seen by motorists just north of Madison (population 191,262), the state capital of Wisconsin. Also on Saturday, July 18, at 12:30 a.m., "three helicopters flew west to east over XPI's headquarters. 'The helicopters flew so low they knocked the power off the VCRs,' said Scott Leeper, who was inside the building" in Rockwell, North Carolina (population 1,598), a small town on Highway 52 about 130 miles (208 kilometers) southwest of Raleigh. XPI is a ufological investigation group closely affiliated with American UFO Newsletter. AUFON editor Stefan Duncan was not in the building at the time of the overflight. On Sunday, July 19, 1998, the solo black helicopter was seen again, this time south of Madison, Wis. Eyewitnesses said the pilot "flew a grid pattern over the area." The helicopter "remained in sighr for approximately ten minutes." On Monday, July 20, 1998, at 5:39 p.m., a single black AH-1 Cobra attack helicopter was spotted flying west above Interstate Highway 76 about two miles south of King of Prussia, Pennsylvania (population 18406), a suburb of Philadelphia. Also on Monday, July 20, at about 2 p.m., a motorist on Interstate Highway 94, just west of Ann Arbor, Michigan, reported sighting "a black helicopter with no markings at all, just a few numbers on the tail (boom)." At least one Michigan helicopter was identified as belonging to the Michigan Air National Guard. While flying over the Thornapple River near Hastings, Michigan (population 6,549), the crew was searching for hidden marijuana fields when they spotted a man on the ground "shaking his fist" at them and "acting in a suspicious manner." When the man climbed into a truck and drove away, the ANG helicopter notified authorities and gave them a description of the vehicle. Police arrested the man, Mark Koernke, 41, also known as "Mark from Michigan," a militia spokesman and co- host of the radio talk show Intelligence Report. Koernke had been wanted by Michigan authorities for weeks on charges of assault and failure to appear in court. According to radio co-host John Stadtmiller, Koernke and another woman, Annie Dawson, were being held at the Washtenaw County Jail near Ann Arbor pending an upcoming court appearance. Hastings is on Michigan Highway 37 about 38 miles (61 kilometers) southwest of Lansing, the state capital. On Tuesday, July 21, 1998, a private pilot waiting to take off from Midway Airport, at the intersection of 55th Street and Cicero Road in Chicago, Illinois saw "three black helicopters parked out at the far end of the runway." On Thursday, July 23, 1998, AUFON editor Stefan Duncan reported seeing "a small black unmarked helicopter fly fast and low over the trees about 100 yards" from the XPI building in Rockwell, North Carolina. (See American UFO Newsletter #13 for 1998, the Grand Rapids, Michigan Free Press and the Battle Creek, Michigan Enquirer for July 22, 1998. Many thanks to all the readers who contributed reports to this story.) (Editor's Note: Mark Koernke's videotapes America In Peril 1 and 2 were among the items confiscated from the Heaven's Gate group's cache in Encino, California in late March 1997. See UFO Roundup, Volume 2, Number 13.)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 07, 1999.


a..

Sorry, defensive mode there I guess... yeh, I've seen Cobra's pretty dark green, but never black, plus these weren't Cobra's... I know that profile from any angle :)

They really looked and sounded like the old Hueys... flying away from me, with me back to the sun on a clear blue day... same flight path for both...

I'm really curious... I've seen some people mention around here seeing them, then getting attacked by the trolls... now that I've seen them, I'd like to get to the bottom of it. The only answeres I've heard so far are...

1. You're f*ckin nuts...

2. They come from the factory that way...

3. optical illusion if a white bird flys directly between you and the sun...

1. Yes, I am, but doesn't affect my vision...

2. Repeat... Bullshit...

3. Sun was to my back on a clear day, and when your like me and the sound of those props means a ride home, you get a keen eye... it's been a few years, but if you've been there, done that, you know it stays with you...

Would really like an answer...

-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), August 07, 1999.



Thanks Andy...

Tho I think the source of the article might put some people off... still the identification of one as an ANG bird was interesting.. is that all these reports are, is the Air National Guard has decided to paint their choppers black?

Any ANG folks out there can help us out here?

-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), August 07, 1999.


Carl,

if you're really interested - there is a paperback book I flipped through on the subject in barnes and noble - I believe that author has been on Art Bell or Sightings - you may find him in the archives (I know for definite he was on Sightings...)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 07, 1999.


BINGO!

His name is Jim Keith: Black Helicopters

On the June 4th 1998 show at

http://www.broadcast.com/shows/endoftheline/98archives.stm

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 07, 1999.


Carl,

If you root around the archives here a little bit, I think you will find some answers. There were quite a few threads about these, in connection with the "Urban Warrior" training missions, a few months back. My memory may be hazy about it, but I seem to recall that these special ops choppers were confirmed by the military and took part in some of the training exercises. I think it was one in Texas that had locals up in arms because they came in late at night in these black helicopters, flying low-level and scaring hell out of some folks. You might check the archives under "martial law" or "military" to see where these threads have been filed. Also, look for Diana Squire's thead about the "Night Riders"...I think that's the name for the elite special forces who pilot these things. She also had a link to their website, and had received some correspondence from them.

You are not nuts, and I don't think these are really any big secret. Good luck!

-- (check@archives.com), August 07, 1999.


Carl... If you take a drive out toward a desert town named Dagget ,in southern California. You can see a whole squadren of them. There IS a Marine inteligencs operation out there, and may, OR may not have something to do with them. You can see them from the freeway, or drive over to the airport and have a closer look. I saw them, as did my brother, and my wife just last week.

-- night eyes (Isawthemtoo@dark birds.com), August 07, 1999.


Okay. I did a quick check, and here are two threads. I know there are more, but I gotta run. The black helicopters are part of Delta Force, an elite Army anti-terrorism unit. They have been part of the Urban Warfare training.

click here

and here

-- (check@archives.com), August 07, 1999.


Hummm...

Thanks Andy, although that source kind of has a bit of a credibility gap with me. Especially linking cattle mutilations to black helicopters... a little too much, then of course the plug to buy the book... sound like that new "Bell Witch" low budget flick ....

Check...

I looked in the archives, but just scanned... need to go back slowly I guess... if there's a thread from Diane, I would definately like to see that...

So I guess these muthers are real common, and they ARE black, not dark green, I know the difference... would be nice to know exactly who they belong to. The ones I saw today were not even trying to be sneaky, most people probably wouldn't have even given them more than a quick glance, so why? But like I said, I have a history with birds that when I hear those blades chopping wind, gets my attention more than most...

-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), August 07, 1999.


Thanks for the links check...

It's starting to make sense. I used to trein a bit in Texas with the old 101st, although we had a problem with the sand sucking into the turbos, so spent more time walking than riding :) Maybe that's one of the reasons they spent so much time there, it's hell on birds, but in the last 20 some odd years, I'm sure they've learned to work around it.

Delta Force huh... well, Fort Bragg would be a logical place for command, 82nd Airborne HQ, last I heard one of the few still on jump status, Ranger forces, etc., could be...

But what I can't figure is why no insignia? Military do love it's patches... as an ex-"Screaming Eagle" aka "Puking Buzzard"...

Maybe they are anti-terrorist units being spread around, I could buy into that... butyou know, if I was a local John Q. Law, and had just had a "terrorist attack" happen in my jurisdiction, and a few minutes later, these un-marked black choppers start dumping heavily armed forces in my back yard, guess what I'ld do... you betcha.. fire there asses right up...

It would explain why the ones today I saw looked like Hueys, transports that could move a squad at a time, and some of the other reports of Cobra class choppers, as they were our backup....

Interesting... but again, why no markings?

-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), August 07, 1999.


Carl,

I gave you two of the links to click on in my previous post. They have articles from the Houston Chronicle, quotes from the military and law officials in the towns (Kingston, Texas for one) where the exercises took place using Delta Force.

-- (check@archives.com), August 07, 1999.


Thanks Check... I followed them.. good info too.

But my comment about local John Q. Law was while the boys in Texas had a heads up, if they were to drop in to say Fresno, CA, unannounced and no insignia, might be a problem.

Again, I find the no insignia or markings at complete odds with my military experience... first thing any militia gets, uniforms and a patch...

Only exception are black ops, but why would they be concerned about being identified as US forces on US soil?

-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), August 07, 1999.


U.N. forces training -- getting familiar with the territory?
DEA/FTB... high-tech snooping? (Looking through the ceilings for anomolous "hot spots" from grow-lights? Checking for radiation sources? Looking for concentrations of the strips in the new currency? Monitoring the computer screens in the neighborhood? Doing market research for TV advertisers by seeing what's REALLY on your TV screen? ...)

-- A (A@AisA.com), August 07, 1999.

Very simple explanation for these sightings, the 160th task force out of Ft Campbell, KY has quite an inventory of black helicopters that are used specops tasking. I am not offering this as the only explanation, albeit a fairly obvious one.

Nick

-- Nick (Hover@tampabay.rr.com), August 07, 1999.


Here in Georgia we use black choppers for checking on pot growers. there are no markings on the birds.

-- Smokey (Smokey1057@aol.com), August 07, 1999.

NightStalkers.com take a look at Operations .

-- (darkwings@choppers.anon), August 07, 1999.

Some of the black rotary wing aircraft belong to agencies like the DEA. They generally have no or extremely hard to read markings. These guys occassionally have a cobra or two mixed into the lot. The variations on type stem from the orginal souce of the bird. If purchased directly or through DOD, they are standard Huey, Hawk, LOH configurations. If confiscated, they maybe MD 500 NOTAR or the occassional French bird.

-- justme (birds@flylow.com), August 07, 1999.

Hey Carl--- I'm the one that saw the black birds rotate from the top of the Dallas Convention center--I know they were black as I was less than a hundred yards away. By the way--I am not a female and have quite a bit of experience in aviation (2000 hour commercial). These were unusual--no number identification at all, solid black and equipped with the mast mounted sighting system--essentially an OH-58D painted black. There were eight of them and they were accompanied by a UH-60 and it also had no markings. I would have thought nothing of seeing one or two of these--but eight together is a little unusual.

-- M. Jewell (jetav8rx@theglobe.com), August 07, 1999.

Sorry M... maybe I missed the M. and just recalled the jewell..which is why I thought you were female. I remembered your post, primarily because of all the troll droppings that followed your post.

After seeing a couple myself, I decided to rehash the issue, gotten soom good responses. I can understand an isolated bird or two with no markings, but I still find it strange that so many are reported without any visible markings.

I don't see any great conspiracy there, but if you were to see a line of black cars with no plates driving through your neighborhood, you'ld probably question it. As I question the black choppers flying over our neighborhoods with no markings...

Delta force? OK, maybe... special military Anti-Terrorist Rapid Response Units, OK, maybe... "the county ran out of money and couldn't afford to spray paint the ID markings on till next fiscal year", OK, could see that... just curious, and annoyed with the trolls jumping on anything refering to something odd or out of the ordinary that others observe and are curious enough to ask if anyone might have an explanation for those observations, other than "got tinfoil?"

-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), August 07, 1999.


Carl, see www.infowars.com. Try to get the video, "Police State 2000" from same site. It will fill your pants!

-- Betty Alice (Barn266@aol.com), August 08, 1999.

So, from my perspective, what is rather important is WHY THESE HELICOPTERS HAVE NO IDENTIFICATION NUMBERS OR CALL NUMBERS AS IS REQUIRED BY THE FAA??????????

They fly in the same airspace as other planes and copters (not over a restricted military site) so why the 'EFFF' don't they have ID numbers???????

HELLO, IS ANYONE PAYING ATTENTION??????????

-- OR (orwelliator@biosys.net), August 08, 1999.


OR..

I think if you read my posts, this is a subject that I continue to come back to, and have yet to see a satisfactory response.

We've established they do exist, we have several theories/explanations as to who they belong to, and what their purpose might be. We STILL have not recieved a plausible explanation and/or excuse as to the lack of markings, with a couple of minor isolated exceptions...

Once I hear something to satisfy that one, I'll go back to sleep on this one :)

-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), August 08, 1999.


um, they don't want to be identified?

-- simple is as simple does (simpleton@gump.stumped), August 08, 1999.

Simple,

Nail on the head. Questions is, why?

-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), August 08, 1999.


cuz they don't want to be stopped, they don't want nosy questions, they don't want to be tracked, they don't want anybody making a stink.

in other words, they are up to no good

-- simple is as simple does (simpleton@gump.stumped), August 08, 1999.


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