OT - Big Bang Machine - Yikes!

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Has anyone but me seen this? Does anyone know what to make of it?

Doesn't it seem obvious that a machine designed to recreate the Big Bang could cause some problems?

Don't these guys watch Star Trek movies?

Please, someone, tell me this is a hoax.

The Sunday Times of London

http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/99/07/18/stinwenws02029.html?999

July 18 1999 BRITAIN

Big Bang machine could destroy Earth

by Jonathan Leake Science Editor

A NUCLEAR accelerator designed to replicate the Big Bang is under investigation by international physicists because of fears that it might cause "perturbations of the universe" that could destroy the Earth. One theory even suggests that it could create a black hole.

Brookhaven National Laboratories (BNL), one of the American government's foremost research bodies, has spent eight years building its Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC) on Long Island in New York state. A successful test-firing was held on Friday and the first nuclear collisions will take place in the autumn, building up to full power around the time of the millennium.

Last week, however, John Marburger, Brookhaven's director, set up a committee of physicists to investigate whether the project could go disastrously wrong. It followed warnings by other physicists that there was a tiny but real risk that the machine, the most powerful of its kind in the world, had the power to create "strangelets" - a new type of matter made up of sub-atomic particles called "strange quarks".

The committee is to examine the possibility that, once formed, strangelets might start an uncontrollable chain reaction that could convert anything they touched into more strange matter. The committee will also consider an alternative, although less likely, possibility that the colliding particles could achieve such a high density that they would form a mini black hole. In space, black holes are believed to generate intense gravitational fields that suck in all surrounding matter. The creation of one on Earth could be disastrous.

Professor Bob Jaffe, director of the Centre for Theoretical Physics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who is on the committee, said he believed the risk was tiny but could not be ruled out. "There have been fears that strange matter could alter the structure of anything nearby. The risk is exceedingly small but the probability of something unusual happening is not zero."

Construction of the #350m RHIC machine started eight years ago and is almost complete. On Friday scientists sent the first beam of particles around the machine - but without attempting any collisions.

Inside the collider, atoms of gold will be stripped of their outer electrons and pumped into one of two 2.4-mile circular tubes where powerful magnets will accelerate them to 99.9% of the speed of light.

The ions in the two tubes will travel in opposite directions to increase the power of the collisions. When they smash into each other, at one of several intersections between the tubes, they will generate minuscule fireballs of superdense matter with temperatures of about a trillion degrees - 10,000 times hotter than the sun. Such conditions are thought not to have existed - except possibly in the heart of some dense stars - since the Big Bang that formed the universe between 12 billion and 15 billion years ago.

Under such conditions atomic nuclei "evaporate" into a plasma of even smaller particles called quarks and gluons. Theoretical and experimental evidence predicts that such a plasma would then emit a shower of other, different particles as it cooled down.

Among the particles predicted to appear during this cooling are strange quarks. These have been detected in other accelerators but always attached to other particles. RHIC, the most powerful such machine yet built, has the ability to create solitary strange quarks for the first time since the universe began.

John Nelson, professor of nuclear physics at Birmingham University who is leading the British scientific team at RHIC, said the chances of an accident were infinitesimally small - but Brookhaven had a duty to assess them. "The big question is whether the planet will disappear in the twinkling of an eye. It is astonishingly unlikely that there is any risk - but I could not prove it," he said.

_ _ _ _ _

[ Note: At the end of this page there are two Appendices: (1) a note from a British colleague verifying that the Sunday Times is a respectable paper in England and (2) a further description of the ion accelerator project at RHIC. - Tom ]

_ _ _ _ _

So now for a bit of reflection.

I see two issues here. The short-term issue is: Should this experiment even be tried? To me the clear answer is NO. If you agree with me, please share your thinking with government officials and any representatives, media, colleagues, friends and family who might care about how all this proceeds. I don't know where the leverage is in this, but if we all do the best we can, perhaps in the next few months our views will reach someone who can have a real effect.

But there's a longer-term issue here, as well. If the world doesn't disappear into a black hole, this other issue will come up over and over, louder and louder, until we deal with it or destroy ourselves. That question is: What is the appropriate way to make scientific and technical decisions that effect the broader welfare of society and the planet?

It has been said that democracy is people having a voice in the decisions that affect their lives. The decision to proceed with this experiment could affect everyone. To the extent we live in a democracy, we should have a voice in that decision. And yet we find that science and technology seem to be operating in a different world, far beyond the reach of democracy, with no way for our voices and interests to be heard.

This isn't new. We've been climbing out on this limb for years. The Brookhaven Big Bang experiment just gives us another warning about how far out we have climbed. Science and technology have outstripped democracy in so many realms -- from global warming to genetic engineering, from telecommunications to nanotechnology, from Y2K to antibiotic resistance, from weapons technology to an endless array of other highly technical social problems.

Many of these problems are hidden in shades of grey, making them hard to think about. The Brookhaven Big Bang experiment presents us with a starker vision. If it produces the "wrong" results it could eradicate not only life on earth, but transform the planet itself into a super-dense black hole.

We are seriously out of our league here. We're not dealing with a leaky roof, a sick grandmother or a war with a neighboring tribe. Such things are native to the level of reality that we're all familiar with -- the realm in which we've evolved to operate -- the realm of things we can see and hear and touch, things that please us or get our adrenaline running... things that we can handle with chamomile tea, hatchets, a friendly hug or a primal scream.

When I say we're seriously out of our league, I mean we're dealing with things we can't see or hear or feel because they are too tiny or too large or too subtle for ordinary people to grasp. I mean scientists are cracking genes and atoms in the lab -- and industries are pouring 75,000 barely tested chemicals into our environment -- while we walk through our lives as if everything is normal. It seems to me that things are getting profoundly less "normal" every day. We are in a very different era now.

How is democracy supposed to work in this new environment? What does citizenship mean, when most of us don't even know that most of these problems exist, or how to think clearly about them, or have forums for meaningful dialogue about them? What does responsibility mean, given this new world we're living in?

The hour is late. It is time to face these questions. The potential consequences of ignoring them are growing daily.

As we try to deal with this issue, one pair of facts stands out:

(a) We human beings are able to create immensely powerful collective effects outside of the realm of our everyday awareness and activities. Scientific progress, computers, telecommunications, technical mastery, mass culture, overpopulation and oceans of money are cranking up our ability to generate phenomena never before seen on earth, either in the lab in or the real world.

(b) We aren't yet very good at collectively perceiving, reflecting on, and responding to the consequences of that immense power. The best we've got is an endless battle among interest groups and among experts, which generates precious little wisdom. If we don't improve our ability to track and wisely modify our collective power -- especially in the realm of science and technology -- I doubt we'll last much longer. What I don't doubt is the competence or ambition of those who are currently tapping into the physical and biological fundamentals of life.

Even if it doesn't all unravel in an experiment gone awry, our expanding technological power is becoming increasingly available to the dark side of humanity, empowering them to destroy the rest. It is also empowering all of us who impact the world without even knowing it, simply by living our lives... driving our cars.. sending chemicals into the air, water, and soil... supporting increasingly toxic wars....

It doesn't have to be like this. We do not have to continue this insane state of affairs.

A number of brilliant approaches to this problem are in use today and more are being developed. For example, in Denmark, quasi-official citizen panels review technical issues to advise their government on what technology policy should be. They have proven that ordinary citizens, given adequate information and facilitation, are fully capable of coming to wise judgments about how to handle complex technical issues. Experts play a role in this process, but (as Frances Moore Lappe says) they are on tap, not on top. Wouldn't it make sense for every technological society to adopt similar practices?

For more information about the Danish model, you can check out http://www.co-intelligence.org/S-ordinaryfolksLOKA.html. It describes the Loka Institute ( http://www.loka.org ), a group in Amherst, MA, who are trying to bring democracy and sanity to our scientific and technological decision-making. Their work is part of a broader vision, an exciting set of possibilities for making democracy strong, resilient and wise enough to carry us safely into our challenging future. For more on this vision, I invite you to read "Creating a Culture of Dialogue" http://www.co-intelligence.org/CIPol_CultrOfDialog.html and other articles listed on http://www.co-intelligence.org/CIPol_Index.html.

There's a story about frogs. It says that if you put them in a hot pan, they'll jump out, but if you set them in a pan of water and slowly raise the heat, they'll just sit there until they boil.

I suggest that it's time to jump out of the pot.

_ _ _ _ _

APPENDIX I

>From Paul Swann 22 Jul 1999

Hello Tom,

You wrote:

>Isn't the Sunday Times a respectable paper like the New York Times? >Or is it a tabloid rag?

Yes, it's considered respectable...though like The Times it's owned by Murdoch's News International Corporation.

To give both the Times & Sunday Times credit, they're the only British newspapers who've given consistent, and often thoughtful coverage to y2k. _ _ _ _ _ _

APPENDIX II

More on the RHIC, dug up out of the Web:

http://rsgi01.rhic.bnl.gov/html2/guardian599.html

The Guardian London, England April 29, 1999

Ions in the fire

Particle physicists are on collision course to recreate conditions at the birth of the universe, reports Frank Close.

Hearts of gold will have an intimate reunion next month, their first for 15 thousand million years. The event will take place in the underground tunnel of the new 'relativistic heavy ion collider' (or RHIC) at the Brookhaven National Laboratory on Long Island, New York.

Experiments will begin that may give us the first glimpse of what it is like inside a neutron star or a supernova and even what the matter that we are made of was like in the first ten-millionths of a second of the universe's existence. Physicists from around the world, including a team from Birmingham University, have been preparing for this moment for years. What is it all about? Strip an atom of its electrons and you have what is known as an ion. Do this to atoms of heavy elements such as gold or lead and you have a 'heavy ion'. Then hurtle beams of these ions together in head on collision and you have a heavy ion collider.

It is all high speed where relativity rules; hence 'RHIC'. At least the name makes sense; but what is a collider like and what is its purpose? RHIC is a circular ring of magnets over a mile long, which is small compared to the 17 mile long LEP (large electron positron collider) at Cern, the European nuclear research laboratory in Geneva. While LEP is designed to whirl beams of electrons and their antimatter counterparts, positrons, the novel feature of RHIC is that it can control heavy ions.

The magnets surround a narrow tube, a few centimetres in diameter, within which the beams are whirled around the ring, one beam clockwise and the other anticlockwise. At various points around the circle the two beams cross one another and here the collisions occur.

The beams are like diffuse swarms of gnats, whose individual members are so small that the chances are that the two swarms pass clean through one another. The trick is to concentrate so many gnats (ions) into the beams that occasionally two meet head on. The ions in the beams are moving at near to the speed of light and whirl around the ring over 10 thousand times each second.

With billions of ions in each beam, collisions actually occur many times a second. By surrounding the collision points with sophisticated electronics, it is possible to record the cataclysm as debris hurls across the electrical sensors. The resulting trails are like hieroglyphs that experts decode.

What is RHIC hoping to reveal about the nature of matter? Matter on Earth consists of atoms whose electrons whirl remotely around a massive central nucleus. They cluster together to make liquids, solids or gases. Inside the sun, things are different. The temperature is millions of degrees and the atoms cannot survive intact; the electrons escape from their atomic prisons and swarm independent of the protons. This is often called 'the fourth state of matter', or 'plasma'.

Although a temperature of a million degrees disrupts atoms, it is still cool on the nuclear scale. Protons and neutrons, the pieces of atomic nuclei, still retain their identities.

In the searing heat of the Big Bang the fundamental quarks and gluons, which in today's cold universe are trapped inside protons and neutrons, would have been too hot to stick together.

The sun consists of an electrical plasma: by analogy we suspect that in the aftermath of the Big Bang matter consisted of a 'quark gluon plasma' or QGP for short. Physicists believe that QGP might still exist today in the hearts of neutron stars which are so dense that a piece the size of a pinhead would weigh more than the Eiffel Tower. Even if QGP does survive, we cannot access it and so have to recreate it in the laboratory.

This is done by smashing heavy ions into one another at high energies, squeezing the protons and neutrons together in the hope of making them 'melt'. The quarks and gluons will then flow freely instead of being frozen into individual identifiable neutrons and protons.

Although the huge LEP accelerator at Cern is not yet able to control heavy ions, a smaller accelerator at Cern can. For several years physicists working have been smashing heavy ions in the hope of determining the conditions for QGP to form. But they have been aiming the beams at stationary targets. RHIC's head-on collisions will be far more violent.

Cern can heat the ions to temperatures of a million million degrees and has seen tantalising but inconclusive hints of QGP being formed. RHIC will increase this by a factor of 10 and should take us into the weird world of the quark gluon plasma.

The challenge for physicists is not simply to make QGP but to record the fact. There is an analogy between particles escaping from the heart of QGP and those escaping from a more conventional plasma, such as is found in the centre of the sun. Neutrinos are impervious to the solar plasma and fly out from the heart of the sun; both neutrinos and also electrons and their anti-matter counterparts, positrons, can escape from within a QGP. So by detecting electrons and positrons we are effectively looking into the heart of the QGP by analogy with the way that by detecting neutrinos we can look into the heart of the sun.

There are other tests that can be made. So-called 'strange' particles are expected to increase while production of the charmed 'psi' particles should become rarer. The measurements at Cern do show such behaviours but the energy of the collisions appears to be just on the threshold for making QGP. These discoveries are suggestive and raise excitement as to what the higher energy experiments at RHIC will reveal.

About six years from now the huge LEP accelerator at Cern will have been modified into a new form known as the large hadron collider, or LHC. In this new form it will be able to accelerate lead ions and to collide them head on at energies far higher even than those accessible to RHIC. At these extreme energies, akin to those that would have been the norm in the universe when it was less than a trillionth of a second old, it is expected that QGP will be common, enabling its properties to be studied in detail.

That is for the future. For the moment, in the race to produce QGP, it is RHIC that has the lead chance to strike gold.

Frank Close is head of theoretical physics at Rutherford Appleton Laboratory in Oxfordshire, currently on leave as head of communications at Cern. His next book, Lucifer's Legacy, will be published by Oxford University Press next year.

Tom Atlee * The Co-Intelligence Institute * Oakland, CA http://www.co-intelligence.org http://www.co-intelligence.org/Y2K.html http://www.co-intelligence.org/CIPol_Index.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------- "There are only two ways to live your life: as though nothing is a miracle, or as though everything is a miracle." --Albert Einstein

Sheri Nakken Coordinator - Western Nevada County Y2K Preparedness Network **VISIT OUR NEW BOOKSTORE ONLINE*** http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/wncy2k.htm PO Box 1563, Nevada City, California 95959 Phone 530-346-9325

Business Owner - Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours Broadcaster/DJ/Reporter - KVMR FM, Nevada City, CA, 89.5, 99.3 Sacramento, 103.7 FM, Auburn - Host: The Y2k Forum, 1st & 3rd Wednesdays 12 Noon - 1 P.M. Moderator of Y2K Prepare List on one.list.com

----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yb01.mx.aol.com (rly-yb01.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.1]) by air-yb05.mail.aol.com (v60.18) with ESMTP; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 03:57:45 -0400 Received: from onelist.com (pop.onelist.com [209.207.164.13]) by rly-yb01.mx.aol.com (v60.18) with ESMTP; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 03:57:30 -0400 Received: (qmail 9224 invoked by alias); 5 Aug 1999 07:56:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 14109 invoked from network); 5 Aug 1999 07:38:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.22) by pop.onelist.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 1999 07:38:40 -0000 Received: from earthlink.net (pool0081.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.81]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10458; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 00:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A93F54.5A0E5579@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 00:37:56 -0700 From: Shandi X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) To: Gazebo Girls Mailing-List: list gazebo_girls@onelist.com; contact gazebo_girls-owner@onelist.com Delivered-To: mailing list gazebo_girls@onelist.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Reply-to: gazebo_girls@onelist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3151E77FA0C07C81F570FB84" Subject: [Gazebo_Girls] Now you see it...now you don't...



-- R (riversoma@aol.com), August 05, 1999

Answers

Hey come on guys, I'm running out of Doomer T-Shirts... take it easy on me here.

No more nonsense until Mid-August when I restock, okay?

-- (Doomer@awards.committee), August 05, 1999.


River, it has been posted a couple other times here, but with no search engine ...

These scoffing Pollies are so determined to maintain Happy Scorn Faces that they'll do anything to mock any type of serious news, or news that may require thinking or planning on the readers' part.

These scoffing Pollies are such fraidy cats that they can't stand the thought of anything shifting the status quo. Since the world tends to swing from good to bad, the duality pendulum, they are setting themselves up for unnecessary anguish. If only they would read history and get a real sense of earth life ...

Apparently they have to go through many more lifetimes before they get an understanding of the overall picture.

3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 05, 1999.


Good call Ashton and Leska, I'm worried abotu Dr. Evil building a Big Bang machine that threatens the status quo. Huh uh, and of course I am also worried about Martians infiltrating the Government and threatening my right to vote. And without my tinfoil hat who knows what kind of mind altering radio waves would be penetrating my thought processes.

You know, now that you mention it, worrying about a "Big Bang" machine is very rational. Gee, thanks for showing me the light.

-- (wow@this place. is whacky), August 05, 1999.


Nobody is saying to worry about anything. The whole point of preparing is to stock up and drill for various common-sense eventualities, and then relax knowing you've done your best to weather many types of disruption without becoming a casualty or burden.

And, if you know about risks ahead of time, you can mentally become prepared so your reactions are not hampered by the surprise or panic factor.

Some things are worth knowing to increase scientific technological understanding, to gauge where it may or may not be safe to relocate, or when to eMail a Congressperson, or how to vote on certain issues.

It's called Being An Alert and Responsible Citizen.

3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 05, 1999.


Where are you going to relocate in order to escape the instantaneous transformation of all matter in this part of the universe into strangelets? And where are you going to hide from a black hole? Northwest Arkansas?

The only reason this otherwise interesting physics piece is posted here is because this is The Fear Forum.

-- Trollyanna (r@t.com), August 05, 1999.



Democracy means different things in different contexts, and its suitability varies enormously in different contexts. In a context of prospectively resolving speculations on the outcomes of experiments in particle physics, appeals to democracy would seem, at very best, to be a cover for mere technophobia.

Jerry

-- Jerry B (skeptic76@erols.com), August 05, 1999.


"A successful test-firing was held on Friday and the first nuclear collisions will take place in the autumn, building up to full power around the time of the millennium."

This is a Year 2000 Forum. 5 months away. The US Government has actually been the leader mixing Terrorism into the Y2K Watch. These are too-interesting times with many factors coming into play, converging around the same time. Add "the other Y2K, solar flares," etc.

Naturally a Y2K Forum will be interested in mentioning and discussing those topics which add to the toil toil trouble will boil Y2K pot 'o brew. Prophecy, Grand Crosses, Squares, eclipses, comets, etc. spice the Watch. None of it is taken as seriously as the cold hard factual computer date design flaw. Time Will Tell!

As for Long Island, we won't be moving there ;-). Add the Brookhaven experiment to Flight 800, Kennedy, etc. and the place looks a little too interesting. To each his own :-)

3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 05, 1999.


This has been floating around for months. the Physics on the side of those against this thing is marginal theory at BEST.

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), August 05, 1999.


Whatever happened to the Bermuda Triangle? That was big when I was a kid, but it's about the only thing I haven't seen mentioned on this forum. They must be compliant there.

-- Trollyanna (r@t.com), August 05, 1999.

And, a follow-up, from the ONION (no kidding).... :) http://www.theonion.com/

Planet Explodes EARTH--All Earth lifeforms are feared dead in Monday's explosion of the four-billion-year-old planet, sources report. "We are still searching through the rubble for any signs of life which may be present," said American Red Cross volunteer Patricia O'Donnell. "But we stress that the hope of retrieving survivors is quite slim." A research mishap at Long Island's Brookhaven National Laboratories is believed responsible for the catastrophic explosion.

-- Scott Johnson (scojo@yahoo.com), August 05, 1999.



A&L

With all due respect you are hyping up the problem far more than should be. In Physics there is a possibility of anything happening. But in reality you are at far more risk of having the moon fall on you :o)

-- Brian (imager@home.com), August 05, 1999.


Brian, we're not hyping the problem at all. In fact, we did not even post it! And we haven't even discussed it. We're very calm, just background adding it to the large mix of possible snafus that crescendo up to the Rollover. Since it is a technologically complex system, wonder if it's even Y2K compliant. You'll have to copy 'n quote exactly in what way we're hyping this? Not at all :-)

Very puzzling how ppl read things. Not very carefully, evidently.

3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 05, 1999.


I live on Long Island and I have heard of a lab at Brookhaven but not this experiment. It may be true, I don't know. I will be keeping my eyes open. Mybe I should contact my Congress man. It sounds scary.

Why can't Human beings just leave well enough alone and quit playing Dr. Frakenstein or worse.

-- Long Island momma (Rkcs@aol.com), August 05, 1999.


This thread was posted a couple of times last month. It isn't very hard to track down confirming details about it. Brookhaven Institute has a webpage. The project and the participants are fairly well documented. Also, it is THE DIRECTOR of Brookhaven who convened this panel to study the potential problems before any further testing is done. Don't have time to do it again, but last month I did run searches on the director's credentials, as well as some of the nuclear physicists who are on the panel...suggest anyone else do this same minor bit of research before either calling this story a hoax, or calling into question the credentials of those who are expressing concerns (last I checked, HARVARD was still pretty well thought of).

It is an interesting story, and any updates regarding the findings of the panel would be appreciated.

-- RUOK (RUOK@yesiam.com), August 05, 1999.


Ashton, and Leska:

you wrote:

"A successful test-firing was held on Friday and the first nuclear collisions will take place in the autumn, building up to full power around the time of the millennium." This is a Year 2000 Forum. 5 months away.

Actually, the new millenium won't begin for another year and five months, so we don't have to worry about any Big Bang nuclear reactors powering up until January 1, 2001... you know... the new Millenium? Don't tell me your so ignorant that you havn't been clued into thay little mathematical tidbit?

Anyway, if this is a Y2000 forum then NOTHING that has to do with the new millenium ought to be posted here, cause the Y2000 has got nothing to do with the new Millenium. Except maybe to reference it as the last year of THIS Millenium.

Am I talking over your head now? Gee, didn't want to confuse your little mind, sorry. Do whatever it takes to get a grip, okay? Rub a crystal, burn some incense, meditate, whatever... then get back to me.

-- (oops@you.look stupid now), August 05, 1999.



Oh dear, the poor polyanals are exhibiting their complete grasping at straws. How sad that they are still so confused and do not yet understand that the computers do not engage in philosophical arguments and are simply programmed short-sightedly? The computers do not care and are ticking away. But if it makes you feel better go give them your lectures and ridicule and put a stop to this silly Y2K nonsense that keeps ruffling your feathers ;^)

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 05, 1999.

YEAH! fine, computers... not Big Bang machines. I'd say your making a jump of logic but I think logic is something you haven't been introduced to yet.

Your really adept at sidestepping criticism, I'll give you that. Must be part of your karma training to ignore the real world and function entirely in your own sad reality.

WHATEVER!

-- (okay@whacky couple. from Cascadia...), August 05, 1999.


Those things have been smashing atoms for years. Particle accerators. They even have web pages about them. Just another straw to grasp at.

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoom.com), August 05, 1999.

Um...Cherri? It's a Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC). Maybe you could call the Nuclear Physics Ph.D's who are working on it (and the DoE who spent 40 mil funding it)and tell them it's all been done before...years ago!

-- RUOK (RUOK@yesiam.com), August 05, 1999.

The total number of events in ion colliders is small.

These machines work by aiming one ion beam at another. The density of atoms in these beams is many order of magnitude less than solid matter. This is not like a nuclear Reactor where you are pileing up Pounds to Tons of material. We have Deep space particles that hit the earth all the time with very high energies, over the eons of time, they integrate out to larger numbers than these beam to beam collisons.

The difference is the physics types know where to put their detectors in the colider experiments! It is like having a microscope and knowing where to look. The Deep Space stuff will only give you an event where you are looking if you are very very lucky. With the colliders, you make it happen at a give spot at a given time. It is really quite a nice thing. Good luck Brookhaven!

-- helium (heliumavid@yahoo.com), August 05, 1999.


A&L

Well I may have worded my comment wrong, but this is a fasinating project that will provide a microscope to the structure of the universe. My take is to look at it in awe and an intense curiosity of the results. This is a leap of the same magnitude as an earth bound telescope to the Hubble Space Telescope, even more so.

Oddly enough the more quantum physics advances the more the universe looks like a masterful and beautiful creation. Facinating stuff.

Truely off topic for this forum. :o) Not a Y2K issue at all.

More for the spirit. Ironic eh?

Hence my comment

-- Brian (imager@home.com), August 05, 1999.


"building up to full power around the time of the millennium."

I wonder how many "embedded systems" this baby has. How many computers involved? Gee, I wonder if it's "compliant" ??? How did they test it?

Yea, I'ld say it's on topic. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), August 05, 1999.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ