I was wondering whether anyone here was planning to blame me or other "doomers" for "making" them prepare. In other words, let's suppose for the moment that you have prepared for catastrophe and it doesn't occur. Who (if anyone) are you going to blame for your over-preparation?

Of course, another good question is: if you are under-prepared for what actually occurs, who (if anyone) are you going to blame for that?

I look forward to answers to both of these questions.

-- Steve Heller (stheller@koyote.com), August 04, 1999

Answers

I can pretty much stop this thread in it's tracks! Since when am I responsible for someone else's actions? Two days ago, the first lady tried to excuse her husband's sexual deviations on his mother and grandmother. The news media both right wing and left wing are having a field day with that wag the dog distraction. I wouldn't blame anyone for my preparations or nonpreparations. Every man answers to himself and can blame no one but himself, unless your a coward like that Barton guy who killed people and blamed others for his actions.

-- noddachanceinhell (noddachanceinhell@noddachanceinhell.com), August 05, 1999.

Don't blame me for your stupidity and don't congratulate me for your frugalness.

-- simplysaid (simplysaid@simplysaid.com), August 05, 1999.

Steve, I am preparing for a Great Depression to hit the United States. If I survive Y2K intact, then I shall continue to prepare even more!

If I die, then my family gets all my stuff since they alone know where I've hidden the preps, and, if the laws are still upheld, then my will can be executed, and they'll have ample provisions.

I hope you readers out there have legal wills. Don't delay obtaining one. You never know when you will go...

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), August 05, 1999.

Dear Mr. Heller

Sir, for myself. I am preparing for what I believe I see on the horizon. I started preparing long before I even knew that this forum exhisted. I did this, simply because I found out that the embeded systems I helped install and calibrate in a dozen or so coal- fired co- generation power plants and a couple of Nuclear power stations were not fixed as we had been told that they would be, when we installed them back in the 70's and 80's.

No one runs my getting prepared or not getting prepared; saving that it is an example of Darwin's selection at work here...Those that prepare might live if there is a problem. At the worst they can heve a large tax write off some time next summer,or else eat the food one. But if it does go down...As I KNOW it will! And a person is not prepared, then sir. They will NOT make it.

I do appreacate your contibutions (as well as the other posters who have information). For I am saved an endless amount of hours searching the web to see it the Tell Tail signs suggest that it is time for me to get the H... out of Dodge City before the road blocks go up.

But sir...I am master of my own fate, as it where.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), August 05, 1999.

bLAme YoU???? BLaME YoU????? of cOUrSE dIEtER blAMEs yOU!!!!!! INfiDEL!!!!!!! dIETeR HateS YoU!!!!! wHY, Oh wHy dID diETeR evEr LEt yOu taLK hIM Into trADIng hIS '67 gTo coNVERtabLE For A 72 AMc PACeR?????

i HaTE YoU!!!!!

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), August 05, 1999.

Steve, I hope like everything that it is just "a bump in the road" although I really don't think it will. I have been trying to get my family to prepare like my parents and my husband's family. I have just had casual conversation with them telling them of some of the reports that I have read and so forth and asking that they take me seriously on the matter because I have never tried to sway them on anything in the past. But today was the real kicker. I told my mother of some of the latest news and she informed me that (and I quote) "Shellie, you are scaring the hell out of me, it's people like you that are causing this entire problem!". I was horrified to say the least! And then she goes on to say that she was sure we had enough for everyone. I have news for her though, I DO NOT have enough for all of the family. I have been preparing as much as I possibly can afford to do and although it is coming along fine, it is not near enough and I could use some help! She tells me that she is not going to eat beans and rice and asked why would I even purchase such garbage! Says don't we have anything good to eat! Well, I soon decided I needed to leave because my mother and I have never argued over anything of importance before and I was getting very upset with her. As I was leaving she said she would pick up a thing or two just in case but if nothing happened then she knew who to blame! So in answer to your questions, Steve, I for one am being blamed not only for causing the problem but also for "making her prepare". Sorry the post is so long but I am so tired of being blamed, laughed at, humiliated, and looked at as a nutcase. I have had enough but I can't turn my family away. I sure could use so freakin' help though. Damn it all....Shellie

-- shellie (shellie01@hotmail.com), August 05, 1999.

Shellie,

I'm a regular here, and must say that you're post touched me. I cannot help you of course, but I'm feeling for you. Folks do care, even wacky doomer idiots.

Take care.

-- Feelin Bad (that@sucks.awful), August 05, 1999.

Steve...

If someone "overprepares" because of my influence, what have they lost? Nothing.

So I get blamed because they don't have to buy groceries for a month, and have the emergency supplies they should have had in the first place... at worst case, they lost a few % points if the stock market bubble continues to inflate, but that's one that's gonna pop y2k bump or not...

If someone "underprepares" beacuse I gave them a polly spin, well, if I believed that, I also would not have prepared, and if TSHTF, in all likelyhood, I won't be around to take blame, and they won't be arround to give blame...

It's not the risks, it's the odds...

-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), August 05, 1999.

Ha! The idea of anybody blaming anybody else for their own actions is laughable. Personal responsibility & accountability are good mottos to live by. It *would* be kinda fun to dress up as a ragged beggar and go razz Paul Milne for "not warning us enough" tho ;^) These types of threads conjure up all types of silly hilarious thoughts in our heads; tonight we'll giggle ourselves silly before sleep at this thread's flights of fancy. Thanks for the guffaws, Steve!

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 05, 1999.

Humm..

Sounds like Ashton Leska just harvested their first crop of weed... I can see them giggling at the keyboard, covered with potato chips :)

"The idea of anybody blaming anybody else for their own actions is laughable"

Ever read much history?

-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), August 05, 1999.

I can't think of any area of the country that isn't prey to some sort of natural disaster. Any prepping I do will help with the next hurricane.

BTW- It's getting to be that hurricany time of year again......

-- Forrest Covington (theforrest@mindspring.com), August 05, 1999.

Hang in there Shelly.

They'll come around eventually and be grateful.

-- nothere nothere (notherethere@hotmail.com), August 05, 1999.

Carl, no weed here, nuttin like that ever! Just too funny for folks to blame their actions on other ppl! Yep we've read lots of history but have some gaps. Shellie's experience with her mother made us gasp. How could any person "cause" the Y2K problem or make the slightest difference in outcome at this point? The first boxcars of the train are already sailing off the tracks on that long suspension bridge to the next century! When something is really ridiculous it sparks our imagination and then we just laugh describing our fantasies of play-acting to each other, to illustrate the dumbness.

Anyway, Shellie has far more generous patience than we do. If our family treated us like that, we'd quietly distance ourselves from them and stay far away. Blame is hurtful, dangerous, and incorrect, and who wants to volunteer to be a target?

Thanks goodness for this Forum where we can share fascination with the whole Y2K cloud and read other's reactions and takes on emerging news. After Y2K the suspense and impetus for a Forum like this will no longer exist [ or it will and the power will be out ], so this is our social interaction for this lifetime.

Some of these threads really are funny in their suppositions and scenarios. Gotta laugh!

3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 05, 1999.

And yet the first stanza of the GI battle hymn is "there will be blood on your hands" when speaking of optimists, followed closely by "you are causing people to not prepare!"

hmmm, I smell doomers firing up the CMA machine.

[off camera: "mabel, get that big-ass plate of crow ready to serve. This ache in my big toe tells me we are going to get a diner full of of GI's early next year. We better start preping now, or we will have started too late!"]

-- gary gets to be first in line when its time to dine (on delicious crow morsels@the.y2k diner), August 05, 1999.

I know, don't feed the trolls...

But Gary, I really hope for you and yours you know how to catch and cook a crow...

GI, sittin' back, preps done, including ammo for DWGI's knocking at my door too late...

-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), August 05, 1999.

Thanks guys, You know when all else fails I know I can come here and receive not only answers to just about anything but also advice, compassion, humor,debate,reports,quotes, and breaking news. I appreciate this forum and the people who post here. Group hug to all..ahhahha

-- shellie (shellie01@hotmail.com), August 05, 1999.

((((({{{shellie}}})))))

-- A & L (allaha@earthlink.net), August 05, 1999.

Shellie, you little tart, none of that group thingy around here... might make some of us old farts have a stroke... remembering when group hugs didn't involve space suits :(

-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), August 05, 1999.

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000p5p

Try this thread for some answers.

Regards,

-- Mr. Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), August 05, 1999.

Shellie--I have six brothers and sisters. All but two are preparing so far. My old mother is preparing. Thanks to packets, articles, etc. that I kept sending them -- unsolicited. I could tell originally they were blowing me off but then I would follow up with phone calls--usually then they took me seriously. I tried to keep my sense of humor when talking to them about it and not get all offended. I also shared audio and video tapes I had. They were especially helpful--especially an audio tape of General Wheeler--scared the heck out of them. I Just sent an update this week. Relationships are a dance, when you change the step, your partner has to change too or quit dancing. Change the step on your family--once you share with them get REAL CLEAR that there is no way you can prepare for them unless they cough up some money or have something to share in return. then ask them WHAT are they going to do when what you have said comes true and they have no lights, no water, no food? Where are they going to turn? It usually helps when you ask that?

My real concern is that I have been fairly successful in getting the message across so most are preparing for weeks. I think they really need to prepare for longer but just can't bring myself to tell what i see as the real big picture!!

-- appl (applpie@yahoo.com), August 05, 1999.

Steve: There have been many interesting answers to your question and valid arguments for both sides. Being a retired person who spent 25 years in the military, owned my own business and worked as an after market manager for a cooling tower corp. I have observed several things relevant to the discussion. Anytime you give advice to people on any subject you should expect to get flamed from someone. If you feel a responsibility to warn them about something you may be wrong and get flamed for it. Anyone who has raised children or dealt with the busness world knows there is no assurance that your wisdom will be appreciated or accepted. You must develope the attitude of be able to stand the heat or get out of the kitchen. Certainly my wife and I have prepared long ago for Y2K, possible cyber-terrorism, possible terrorist attacks and even Wall Street going up in flames. If we are wrong, we are happy and willing to laugh at ourselves for our lack of good judgement. If we are right we will thank God for giving us enough insight to protect our children and our grandchildren. My ego can stand the bruising. It cannot stand the suffering of my grandchildren. An old pre-WWII baby.

-- Neil G.Lewis (pnglewis1@yahoo.com), August 05, 1999.

Neil:

I'll second that. If I'm wrong, I may have to tighten my belt some, I've put some stuff on credit cards. On the other hand, I'll have a lot of useful things that can save me money in the long run.

-- Jon Williamson (jwilliamson003@sprintmail.com), August 05, 1999.

Arnie Rimmer's masterpiece on accepting personal responsibility:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000LLF

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), August 05, 1999.

Wow! I didn't know that I possessed such influential powers over people! Now, if I can just persuade people into thinking that I am God and have them hand over all their worldy possessions to me I will be the most wealthy person in the world and you will have nothing. Then, you can blame me, God!

-- Don't Blame Me (Don'tblameme@Don'tblameme.com), August 05, 1999.

My whole family is GI and they will not blame each other. However, Steve's concern is somewhat valid. In the event of a BITR, we will all know somebody who will place lame on us for getting them to prepare. it won't be right, but it will happen. As to who to blame if calamity hits can I blame somebody? You bet. Where do I start? There are enough culpible individuals inside the beltway to keep me busy typing for a week.

-- Dave (aaa@aaa.com), August 05, 1999.

I will blame my close firend. She is a kook. I hope we all survive to bicker. Anyway, some few things are almost guaranteed. That the food will be gone from the shelves later this year when people panic. (Almost guaranteed.) That the stock makret will plummet this year and next. That things will change and having food and money out of the market will be a good thing. I'm hoping for a BITR, preparing for worse.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), August 05, 1999.

-- Shellie and others, Math is a wonderful thing.

You have prepared for a certain time for a certain number of people but that is variable.

If you have enough for two people for a year you also have enough for 4 people for 6 months, or 6 people for 3 months and so on.

Sharing is not a bad thing it just allows you to support more people for less time.

As the situation develops we can gauge how it may turn out better then we can now.

-- Steve Fastman (stephanf@codenet.net), August 05, 1999.

If you have enough for two people for a year you also have enough for 4 people for 6 months, or 6 people for 3 months and so on.

And if the entire town comes clamoring for your food, then you have enough for, what, a day and a half? Not to mention the fact that some of them will more than likely just kill you and take your food.

-- (its@coming.soon), August 05, 1999.

You're describing the difference between being proactive and reactive.A reactive person is,for the most part,a victim.All control for a reactive person comes from outside sources,they are powerless.An example of reactive thinking is;"He said(fill in the blank) and it MADE me angry." Such a person has no control over their own lives.They are victims hoping that the world does not "make" them sad,or angry,or cold and hungry come y2k.It is much more desirable to be proactive.A proactive person CHOOSES his or her course.An example of proactive thinking is;"He said(fill in the blank)and I CHOOSE to respond angrily."Thus the proactive person is responsible for all his/her actions."This situation happened,and I choose to react to it in this manner..."Of course,many people love being victims,they'll be in a shelter somewhere wondering who did this to them.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 05, 1999.

Shellie:

For DGIs which you hold dear, persevere, persevere.

When I told my father about stockpiling food, he urgently stressed that I should stock no more than 30 days supply. He said I might have to throw it out. When I heard this, I was surprised and realized he had no keen sense of food shelf life.

I told him that if I had a 30 day supply and had to share it with someone, then we would have a 15 day supply. Then I mentioned sharing a 30 day supply with two others, which would make the rations last only 10 days. He said it was good to share.

He doesn't have a clue! He is a total GI, an optimist, and about to lose all of his investments WTSHTF. I give up for now.

But I'll be back... with new arguments and statistics.

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), August 05, 1999.

Oops. My father is a total DGI.

I am a totally sloppy proofreader.

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), August 05, 1999.