On westergarrd's site 08/02/1999. An UNNAMED person says an UNNAMED state official says, " Within 24 hours of rollover all the major american cities will be on fire." Worth a thought, worth a read.

-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), August 03, 1999

Answers

Flame Away,

I know that I should know this, but what is the url please. Thank you.

-- flb (fben4077@yahoo.com), August 03, 1999.

www.y2ktimebomb.com

R.

-- Roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), August 03, 1999.

Could you please post the SPECIFIC URL for that article. I am having trouble finding it on the main page. Thanks.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), August 03, 1999.

I don't suppose you could provide a LINK to the actual article there? A CURSORY exam doesn't turn up the quote. I'm willing to hold an open mind on whether this is something to be filed in "things that make you go Hmmm" or in the actual item file.

Chuck

who lacks the Di Research skills

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), August 03, 1999.

Its right there in the first article.

-- Taz (Tassie@aol.com), August 03, 1999.

Heresay is heresay. I can e-mail doom and gloom too and make it sound official.

-- heresaynay (heresaynay@heresaynay.com), August 03, 1999.

Folks:

Unfortunately, this hearsay is quite logical based on the premise of electric power going down for large areas. My daughter (14) thought of this problem on her own within the first couple of days of learning about the Y2K situation.

No electric = no water pumping = no water pressure.

No electric = cold & dark = people doing dumb stuff.

Until the middle part of the last century, cities in this country were known to burn down every 25-30 years. It depended on what they were built of. And they were used to and equipped for using fire as both heat and light.

So, this one isn't rocket science. Depends on the luck of the draw weather wise and on the availability of electric power. It could take more than 24 hours, but, if the power is off for a week in northern cities, they will indeed burn.

-- Jon Williamson (jwilliamson003@sprintmail.com), August 03, 1999.

Remember how the CIA warned that the first week of 2000, besides the rioting and power outages, the three biggest known disasters would be:

Uncontrollable Fires
Sewage BackUps
HazMat Accidents

This up at Gary North's:

Cities Will Burn

http://www.y2ktimebomb.com/Tip/Lord/conn9931.htm

Comment: This one has been on my mind ever since the Montreal ice storm crisis of January, 1998. Well, actually, ever since it ended.

The city's mayor decided not to alert the public that the water treatment facility was about to shut down for lack of power. Untreated water would have flowed into any unfrozen pipes. Why the silence?

Because Montreal's fire marshall convinced the mayor that there was a greater threat than untreated water: fire. He told the mayor that if the people were alerted, they would fill their bathtubs with water, thereby lowering water pressure. If a fire broke out at that point, it might spread untrollably.

It will be cold in January. Someone in every city will do something stupid to keep warm if power goes off for 72 hours. Fires will begin.

How will they end?

We have relied on water pressure to protect our cities from fire.

Without electrical power, pressure will drop. Then what?

Susan Conniry, the survivalist, discusses this on Westergaard's site (August 2).
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Last week I received the following e-mail:

"I just had lunch with a State official. He had just returned from a meeting of Emergency Managers in Washington, D.C. During that session, the managers were advised that within 24 hours after the roll-over into the Year 2000, it was anticipated that every major city in the United States would be on fire, and their contingency plans should include provisions accordingly."

Whether or not you believe the message to be valid (the sender asked to remain anonymous), after you consider the possibilities that might lead to this kind of scenario, you should be more than convinced.

Last January during our Preparedness workshop, my husband advised the audience (as we always do) as to the precautionary measures that should be observed when there is an open flame of any kind. He made particular emphasis that a burning candle should NEVER be left unattended. As if to prove him correct, the local YWCA burned that night. The reason? A resident (who hadn't attended the workshop) left a candle burning in her room, it fell over and the rest is history.

The likelihood for these kinds of accidents will be exponential if the power is out for any time period at all.

Although candles with an open flame require due diligence another concern is the storage of quantities of flammable liquids. Ask yourself how many of your neighbors have stored various fuels (diesel, gasoline, propane, and/or kerosene) in their garages? Many of them will have paid no mind to simple safety precautions for storage of any flammable and combustible materials . . . .

And, of course, in an emergency situation there is always a chance of civil chaos. Riots in the streets that more often than not lead to fires . . . .

Now add insult to injury for the emergency/safety services personnel.

At a Law Enforcement Y2K readiness meeting in June 1999, the representative of the Office of Emergency Services (California) informed the group that another concern for emergency managers is the fact that legislation has just been passed to allow the use of fireworks for New year's Eve celebrations. There was a collective groan from all in attendance . . . .

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Ashton went to CostCo and bought another 3 fire extinquishers. We have an industrial-grade thick heavy very long hose near the outside water spigot for Just In Case.

xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 03, 1999.

This has been a real concern for me, as I live in an apartment. We have a balcony to cook on so ventilation is not a problem. We have purchased monster packs of batteries for lights. I have some candles in the event of prolonged outages, but hope I won't have to use them as I am uneasy about open flames. People who haven't prepared will probably have some candles lying around too. Now if this is a permanent light source for them, it would only take the mistake of one person leaving a flame unattended for the complex to go up. I have purchased an ABC extinguisher and plan to purchase a fold down ladder soon. Still, I feel bugging out may be inevitable.

-- Gia (laureltree7@hotmail.com), August 03, 1999.

Most, if not all, cities have stored water which needs no electrical pumps to provide pressure AS LONG AS THE POWER COMES BACK ON BEFORE THE TANKS RUN DRY.

In a conversation with the city manager at the town closest to where I live, I suggested that, in the event of a power failure which appeared to be prolonged, he ask the citizens to be conservative in their water use. He informed me that whenever cities have tried this tactic, everyone immediately start filling bathrubs, etc. and the amount of water used INCREASES!

Regarding candles, and other open flames, I used to use candles, kerosene lamps, Aladin lamps, and propane lamps on a regulare basis when I lived in a couple of places that were not on the grid. Was I just lucky that I didn't burn the place down? Probably; I wasn't very safety concious back then. On the other hand, I suspect that it is possible to use candles safely, even when unattend. That's what I plan for in the event we don't have power in the future. I'm just more careful. If there are candles left unattended, briefly, I plan to use the type which are more or less untipable, like "votive" candles, in glass containers, for instance.

Any suggestions for safe candle use????

JOJ

-- jumpoffjoe (jumpoff@echoweb.net), August 03, 1999.

Any suggestions for safe candle use????

Don't tip them over?

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), August 03, 1999.

The candle holder should be higher than the candle, coming around it higher on all sides. Heavy glass candler holders are good. Snuff out the flame with watery fingertips so the smoke doesn't smell -- the idea is to keep your nose alert for smoke = trouble.

$Dollar stores, thrift shops, discount stores, yard sales are excellent places to find candles cheap. Nice ones too, and sturdy holders. Buy long wood strike matches, keep a glass of water handy to douse matchsticks out after lighting candle.

Of course, don't put candles under curtains, hanging macrame plants, etc. Our fire marshall told a story about how he was really careful about his candles only to have his kitty's tail swish over one and start a fire! Fortunately his wife saw it and they put it out right away.

It is too easy to forget about candles, so don't ever leave them unattended. It is frightening how quickly fire starts and spreads. Candles and stoves need a watchful person presiding while they are in operation.

Happy candle hunting. We've found really pretty ones for pennies!

3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 03, 1999.

On the subject of candle safety, I have puchased these weird candle like objects, they are disks of very thin plastic with a short (less than half inch) fibrous wick.

To use them one takes suitable glass dish and fills it with a couple of inches of water. On top of the water one floats about half an inch of vegetable oil and then you float the plastic dish with wick on the top of the oil. The oil soaks up the wick and produces a good flame. Each wick allegedly lasts for 10 hours. I got a packet of 5 disks and fifty wicks for $5.00, they were made in Taiwan IIRC.

I figure these should be fairly safe because of all the water that will be spilt if the dish is knocked over, and the oil puddle probably won't be hot enough to ignite, I think.

Anybody else seen these?

RonD

-- Ron Davis (rdavis@ozemail.com.au), August 04, 1999.