Why hasn't anybody mentioned anything about the Atlanta shooting

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I'm always lurking in this forum and I don't usually post anything because I don't have any relevant info, and I don't wanna waste any banwidth. I just try to learn as much as I can.

However, something struck me as really odd last week. Every time something happens in the world that could be even remotely related to Y2K, somebody starts a thread about it. Why hasn't anybody mentioned anything about the Atlanta shooting? It's been a couple of days already.

When I heard the news about it (here in Spain) they said that the shooter had lost a lot of money in the stock market and he just went bananas and shot the people in the financial institution (don't know the name) afte killing his whole family. The first thing I thought was that the expected stock market crash had begun, and this was one episode of many to come.

What happened? Didn't they show it in the news in the States? It was first page here (and look how far away we are).

-- The Outcast (Somewhere@southerneurope.eu), August 02, 1999

Answers

Good point - turns out he was a day trader that had just lost $110,000 in one week - lots of comments on other financial forums, mainly to the effect that we ain't seen nothin' yet when the REAL crash comes - and for that matter when rollover HITS us.

Hmmmmmmm...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 02, 1999.


It also turns out (according to the UK's "Independant" ) that his former wife and her mother were murdered a few years ago, and that he was the prime suspect but there was never enough evidence.

Looks to me like just another random crazy with a constitutional right to bear arms.

-- Nigel Arnot (nra@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk), August 02, 1999.


Nigel - that describes about half of us living in the USA!

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 02, 1999.

The killings in Atlanta were indeed unfortunate. It does however cause us to pause for a moment and think about how this may parallel the Y2K issue.

If (big IF) - Y2K turns out to be nothing more than a few bumps in the road - there are new "issues" to deal with:

Think for a moment about all the people that are making drastic changes in their lives and their families lives.

There are many who will MAX-OUT their charge cards and incur hundreds of times more debt than they normally would - Just because they have been led to believe that all the banks will fail because of the "Systemic Interconnection" and how "one non-compliant bank will drop the entire system due to it's *infecting* the system".

Out of the THOUSANDS which will likely fit into this scenario - how many do you think are going to go looking (hunting) for those who led them a stray? Oh we could have some fun with this figure.

Use Westergard and Yourdon's "Inferential Analysis" logic with this and you would come up with maybe 1%.

Well that looks to me to be 10-20 people who have nothing to lose and have a major axe to grind.

I don't know about you folks, but my spouse (wife) would be very upset if I put every cent we had in gold, beans and Ammo. Almost EVERY true doomer I have read or heard from has armed themselves. They KNOW that there will be a screaming hoard of people trying to knock down their barracades to get at their beans and rice. They truly **BELIEVE** the doomer stuff and willingly discount any GOOD NEWS to be a government ploy to twist or spin the bad news in another direction.

These people will be in deep weeds when their bank forecloses on their homes and they are left broke and/or in jail. They **WILL** go hunting. What would they have to lose?

Remember these folks are armed - they have gold and are full of BEANS! I'm glad they won't be looking for me.

Yours in COBOL... Dino!

-- (COBOL_Dinosaur@yahoo.com), August 02, 1999.


Dino,

Haven't had such a good laugh in ages - you're post above is priceless! - well done - "hundreds", "thousands", "doomers", "foreclosure", "will go hunting"...

Any more you think you can drag up while you're at it???

Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahahaha ha ha

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 02, 1999.



He also had a constitutional right to bear a hammer, which he deployed against the skulls of his two children and wife, drowning them in the bath to finish the job. With all due respect, Nigel, banning guns won't serve to banish evil.

-- Spidey (in@jam.commie), August 02, 1999.

Dino!

Your statement...

"and how "one non-compliant bank will drop the entire system due to it's *infecting* the system"."

Please provide a url, quote, cut and paste or whatever of whoever said that one non-compliant bank would bring down the entire system.

We're waiting...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 02, 1999.


Dino!

Another priceless statement from your fertile imagination!

"There are many who will MAX-OUT their charge cards and incur hundreds of times more debt than they normally would"

Please explain your logic here. How would a person who maxes out a charge card (for a start this is not very clever is it as a charge card needs to be repaid at month end, whereas a credit card is open ended - which do you mean Dino???) incur ***HUNDREDS*** of ***TIMES*** more debt than normal?

Really.

We're all fascinated at how your logic flow works here.

The thread is all yours - away you go...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 02, 1999.


Dino!

You are insinuating that there will be thousands of deranged individuals roaming the countryside doing a Jack Nicholson "Heeeer's Johnny" impression...

"Out of the THOUSANDS which will likely fit into this scenario - how many do you think are going to go looking (hunting) for those who led them a stray?"

Please quantify.

Just how many thousands... 1, 100, 1000, 10,000, how many Dino?

And of your best estimate, please give us your one percentile total of deranged doomers.

Thank you.

Us doomers (tm) [pat. pending] need to protect ourselves you understand...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 02, 1999.


Outcast,

You blinked and missed it.

See BREAKING NEWS: Nine dead 12 injured by gunman in Atlanta

here at

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0 019sD

it is in the UNCATEGORIZED category.

Jerry

-- Jerry B (skeptic76@erols.com), August 02, 1999.



Thanx, Jerry.

-- The Outcast (Somewhere@southerneurope.eu), August 02, 1999.

Dino,

You said: "There are many who will MAX-OUT their charge cards and incur hundreds of times more debt than they normally would - Just because they have been led to believe that all the banks will fail because of the 'Systemic Interconnection' and how 'one non-compliant bank will drop the entire system due to it's *infecting* the system'.

Would you please state your professional qualifications for making such assessments about "many people" and "hundreds of times nore debt"? Alternatively, would you please give the URL or other citation for the reputable study or studies you consulted in making such sweeping statements?

"Out of the THOUSANDS which will likely fit into this scenario - how many do you think are going to go looking (hunting) for those who led them a stray? Oh we could have some fun with this figure."

Would you please state your professional qualifications for making such assessments? Alternatively, give the URL or other citation for the reputable study or studies you consulted in making such sweeping statements.

Use Westergard and Yourdon's "Inferential Analysis" logic with this and you would come up with maybe 1%.

Would you please give a URL for these "inferential" analyses so that those of us who are not familiar with that particular material can rad them? And would you please specify, one percent of what?

"Well that looks to me to be 10-20 people who have nothing to lose and have a major axe to grind."

Are you talking about 10-20 people from this forum? Would you please state your professional qualifications for making such an assessment? Alternatively, give the URL or other citation for the reputable study you consulted in making such a statement.

"I don't know about you folks, but my spouse (wife) would be very upset if I put every cent we had in gold, beans and Ammo."

My spouse (husband) too would be upset if I "put every cent we had in gold, beans and Ammo." Would you please cite a reputable study showing what percentage of the population--or even this forum--has spent funds thusly?

"Almost EVERY true doomer I have read or heard from has armed themselves."

Please define a "true" doomer. Are you implying there are "fake" doomers, perhaps akin to weekend cowboys? Are you aware that anecdotal information is not accepted as sufficient support for an assertion? If you are referring to a study, please cite that study.

"They KNOW that there will be a screaming hoard of people trying to knock down their barracades to get at their beans and rice. They truly **BELIEVE** the doomer stuff and willingly discount any GOOD NEWS to be a government ploy to twist or spin the bad news in another direction."

So you are saying if there ARE problems at the rollover, such as food supply interruptions, drinking water shortages, that sort of thing, that everyone will sit at home patiently waiting for someone to fix the problems? I don't know that there will be a "screaming hoard [sic] of people" at my door (I don't have a barricade for anyone to knock down), and even if there WERE folks looking for beans and rice, they won't find much here. Now it's true we do have quite a stash of coffee, TVP, veggies, fruit, imported British mustard, imported British cookies and other such goodies (I'm English, you know), toilet paper, cat food, cat litter, anad (most important) diabetes medication (made in France) because we're prudent folks who figured out which commodities would be in short supply if there were transportation difficulties, especially from overseas. But, goodness, please don't take my opinion on transportation difficulties as gospel; read the State Department's Inspector General's recent report on same. We also live in an area that can be (and has been) affected by hurricanes, so we like to keep certain things on hand. Of course, my situation is anecdotal and I wouldn't dream of inferring it's true of everyone. But I felt I should explain a little of my own preparations for ANY disaster so you can understand that at least one person you call a "doomer" doesn't fit your tidy little categorization.

The solar panels? Oh yes, it's wonderful to be able to afford them at long last and save money on our electricity bill. We want to add some more and save even more on electricity. They're not making any more oil or building nuclear power plants, you know, so the price of electricity can only go up as the availability goes down. It's no coincidence that BP (British Petroleum) went heavily into solar supplies a few years ago. Now if those fuel cells become available, well, we'll go for those too. Anything to save on these AC bills, wouldn't you agree?

"These people will be in deep weeds when their bank forecloses on their homes and they are left broke and/or in jail."

Why would a bank do that? In our anecdotal case, we're paying an extra month ahead on the mortage. We started that a long time ago in case we ever ran into a temporary difficulty, like the primary wage-earner becoming disabled. Our disability insurance doesn't kick in for 30 days, you see. Prudent. Why would people go to jail? Do you have studies showing these results are likely for some reason?

"They **WILL** go hunting. What would they have to lose?

Remember these folks are armed - they have gold and are full of BEANS! I'm glad they won't be looking for me."

Who ARE these people? Why might they go looking for you--or anyone else? Are you saying that those who read this forum don't think for themselves and would place the blame for their own actions on others, who they perceive "made" them do something? Actually, I've formed the opposite impression--forumites DO think for themselves more than the average. In fact there was a thread just a day or two ago suggesting that people should be more afraid of those who totally believe the government that only a three-day storm event is likely. Of course, again, this is all anecdotal and I have no studies to back up my contentions, just as you have none to back up any of yours--but I DO have education and experience in social psychology and counseling.

Well, it's been nice chatting with you, Dino, but it's the first of the month and I ALWAYS pay my bills on the first, no matter what. I'll be through in an hour, so if you have any studies to refer me to, I'll have time to look at them a little later.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), August 02, 1999.


Nigel, you aren't the only one who didn't get the whole story about this guys twisted history. A couple of years ago he killed his wife and mother-in-law by beating them to death, a few days after taking out a $600,000 life ins. policy on his wife. Authorities said he was the only real suspect, but could find no evidence to bring an indictment, and he was too cold-blooded to say anything incriminating. He even got custody of his 2 children after killing his wife, and then beat them to death, along with his 2nd wife, before he went on his shooting spree in the day-trading offices. Who knows how he wove all this together in his self-serving mind, but I don't think it began with computers, just with greed. I just had to post this answer because so many have been jumping on the computer connection as the trigger for his murderous behavior. He was a psychopath long before he was a daytrader.

As for the other part of the thread that is going on above, I think more people are sinking more than they can afford to lose into the stock market these days, and if/when the bubble inevitably pops, I expect that you'll find alot of them losing everything, including what's left of their common sense. Those folks don't appear to be the least concerned about Y2K, so I doubt they're following any serious discussions about its implications. They're invested in the other thread that keeps them pouring $ into an overheated stock market. If they decide to blame someone else for being mislead, it will be the people profiting from their losses. Now that has alot more real potential for getting ugly I think, than the scenario of people left holding a pantry filled with extra food and water, if Y2K is no more than a bump in the road.

-- Kristi (KsaintA@aol.com), August 02, 1999.


I think hammers and day trading should be outlawed. A bullet to the others was quick, but to bludgeon his wife and children with a hammer is too brutal for me to think about. Day trading will stop this from happening again. The man was a coward.

-- antihammer (antihammer@antihammer.com), August 02, 1999.

The shooting is terrible and tragic and all that. Unfortunately any attempt to explain it or relate it to y2k will be redundant and glimmering with cheap cliches.

People are going to say, or have said:

(1) "It's exploited as a political event by gun control advocates"

(2) "It's a sign of the times in that we live in a society that is" (a) amoral (b) sick (c) unnatural (d) crazy (e) without Jesus Christ (f) all fo the above

(3) "Why didn't the guy just kill himself if he was so upset?" Why did he destroy all those other people?

(4) "That's what you get when you play the stock market like an amateur."

(5) Y2K will be a time of high stress for many people for many different reasons, some of whom are expected to "go postal" just like that Atlanta sicko. Beware and stay away from large crowds or psychotic co-workers.

(6) "It just goes to show you what happens if you give people too much freedom and allow them to keep their guns."

(7) "It just goes to show you what happens when a culture loses sight of what freedom really is, where huge numbers of people forsake personal responsibility in favor of blaming their problems on other people or on society...naturally someone with this mindset is going to not think twice about depriving others of life and liberty when life and liberty have ALREADY been trashed so much..."

(8) "The guy was probably taking those evil anti-depressants, which are not really safe and are pushed on the people by Eli-Lilly and other huge pharaceutical firms..."

(9) "The extensive press coverage will lead to 'copycat incidents' in a society glued to their TVs to the point of hypnotic suggestibility."

(10) "The killer is a prime example of the 'Angry White Man', many of whom can be found in the militia movement. He was a racist and a sexist who had paranoid fears of a vast, non-Anglo-Saxon conspiracy to rob him of his money."

(11) "We live in a culture that sells sensationalist fear in the media. People WANT this type of incident, subconsciously, otherwise it wouldn't be paraded all over the news. People need the fear of various Media-concocted Bogeymen to feel more alive; then they can feel like they are more 'in control' of their lives when they take little steps to protect themselves against these Bogeymen..."

etc., etc. Did I leave anything out? Not much new to say here. We are all entitled to our opinion. MY opinion no need to make a media circus out of something so horrific and demented--it's news that you can't do much about so why harp on it?

-- coprolith (coprolith@rocketship.com), August 02, 1999.



MARVELOUS!! Haven't seen so much fact based ignition in AGES! THANKYOU Andy for your approach here. though it is a slight waste of bandwidth, I APPLAUD the way you all are behaving. Keep this up and I'll have NOTHING to do!

Your new temp sysop, keeper of the eternal flame to civility

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), August 02, 1999.


Nigel Arnot wrote:

It also turns out (according to the UK's "Independant" ) that his former wife and her mother were murdered a few years ago, and that he was the prime suspect but there was never enough evidence.

Looks to me like just another random crazy with a constitutional right to bear arms.

-- Nigel Arnot (nra@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk), August 02, 1999.

I sure hope you weren't implying that his constitutional right to bear arms had anything to do with this atrocity. If I read correctly on this issue, both the previous slayings of his wife and mother-in-law and the current slayings of his wife and her two children were perpetrated by means other than gunfire.

-- claude (cjwarner@yahoo.com), August 02, 1999.


Another reason to ban knives and hammers, and tuna fish too. Some guy beat his girlfriend with a 10 lb. tuna at a local grocery store recently.

-- antihammer (antihammer@antihammer.com), August 02, 1999.

Hammers shouldn't necessarily be banned...but they should certainly be registered, licensed, and taxed. And then we can increase the taxes each year to squeeze out the legitimate, law-abiding hammer owners.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), August 02, 1999.

Andy -

Besides being a PIA, have you ever contributed a darned thing here other than a flame?

I will post only a few links here re: SYSTEMIC - The rest of your requests can just rot for all I care.

The "Inferential Analysis" links can be found in literally every corner of the world and they all point to your buddies "Yourdon and Westergaard".

====

http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/search_.cfm

"I maintain that the y2k problem is systemic. It cannot be fixed. The interconnections are too many. A noncompliant computer will spread bad data and re-corrupt a compliant computer. They cannot all be fixed. There is no agreed-upon standard for even the placement of the century date. Either the noncompliant computers will re-corrupt the compliant ones, or else the compliant ones must cease all contact with noncompliant ones, thereby shutting down entire systems, most notably the banking system. If we can't fix almost all noncompliant computers (and we can't), it does no permanent good to fix any of them. This is the "dirty little secret" of the computer programming guild. "

=====

http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/results_.cfm/Imported_Data

"He was saying that if a compliant computer sends compliant data in a compliant format to another computer, this transfer may crash that computer. Or the recipent computer may not recognize the compliant format. The system breaks down. "

and

"This, in my view, is the biggest unsolvable problem of the y2k challenge. If a company somehow revises its computer systems' legacy code, tests it by parallel testing, does not crash its systems during the testing, and transports all of its old data to the newly compliant system, it faces a problem: it is part of a larger system. Computers transfer data to other computers. If the compliant computer imports data from a noncompliant computer, the noncompliant data will corrupt the compliant system's data. A company may have spent tens of millions on its repair, but once it imports noncompliant data, or extrapolations based on bad data, it has the y2k problem again. "

====

http://206.28.81.29/HyperNews/get/gn/1064.html

"The objective truth is this: Y2K is systemic. It cannot be fixed. This means either (1) the status quo will survive because y2k is objectively peripheral, which is very hard to prove; or (2) the status quo is going to take a licking and may not keep on ticking.

This is from Westergaard's site (March 22). "

====

http://www.homehealthresource.net/FoodSupply1.html

"By a combination of arrogance, ignorance, greed and denial, we have infected the global "host" with a technological Ebola. It is now systemic. If the senior programmers are right, in 1999, we will begin to bleed. In 2000, we will hemorrhage. Our focus must now shift from expecting to cure it to contingency planning for critical, life systems support. Electricity. Food. Water. Telecommunications. Fuel. Medicine. From these, with newly found humility, we will rebuild.....Geri Guidetti, The Ark Institute "

====

http://www.y2kanswers.com/timeisenemy.htm

"That is why the Year 2000 computer problem is truly a Systemic Problem. Systemic because almost all our systems throughout the modern world interact with each other. If one malfunctions or shuts down, it can affect hundreds and perhaps thousands of others. "

====

And if this lame excuse for a Bulletin Board had a search engine I could show you probably a hundred more posts that claim a "Systemic" problem.

Now. Go do your own research and quit crying.

Yours in COBOL... Dino!

-- (COBOL_Dinosaur@yahoo.com), August 02, 1999.


I didn't really want to get sucked into the USA gun debate. It's a matter for USA citizens and I'm not one. The rules are very different over here (UK), and personally I feel safer because of it. However...

Anyone who wants to argue honestly against gun control has to accept that one of the prices that you pay is that lunatics can easily get firearms and then go out on a murder spree. You can argue that it's a price worth paying, that it doesn't happen often enough to matter in a greater context. But if you deny that firearms in the hands of murderous crazies equals dead people, you're either dishonest or self- deluding.

-- Nigel Arnot (nra@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk), August 03, 1999.


"But if you deny that firearms in the hands of murderous crazies equals dead people, you're either dishonest or self- deluding."

I can think of a lot of things that are dangerous in the hands of murderous crazies, knifes, baseball bats, cars, hammers, chainsaws, augers (in fact, you can include all of the basic power tools), broken bottles, spears, bows and arrows, iron rods, matches and gasoline, homemade bombs, even cream pies.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), August 03, 1999.


Old Git, you might oughta be careful how you are paying one month in advance on your housepayment. We did that a few years back in anticipation of hard times (looming layoff) and it happened. We were actually 3 months advanced in our payments. When the paychecks stopped coming we skipped the housepayment for 2 months. Got a notice from the bank after the first month and we called. They said oh it was the banks error. Next month we got a second notice that our interest rate (variable) was being readjusted do to our failure to pay for over 60 days. The interest rate went to prime plus 10% as part of the fine print said it would if two or more consecutive payments were late or not made. I called the bank and spoke with an officer this time instead of a teller. He told me that even though we sent in the coupons with the extra housepayments that they payments were applied directly toward the principle at the time they were received. We were truly 2 months passed due. There wasn't anything he could do to get the interest rate readjusted back down to 7.5%. They reported to the credit bureaus that we were delingquent and the whole 9 yards. We finally got the house refinanced and the crud cleaned off of our record but it was no picnic.

You know this Cobal guy might be right about some folks. I mean look at some people that say stuff like "just let them come bangin on my door for food and they will be looking down the barrel of my AR-15" and then youve got some others that are sandbagging their homes like they were in a flood plain and they aren't. Like he said it may only be a few folks that go off the deep end but it don't take a lot of armed people to inflict a lot of damage and pain just like the guy in Atlanta.

-- (a@aaaa.hole), August 03, 1999.


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