end of age=end of world?

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

for those that have eyes to see[desire to see]check-out prophecy-sites. something is in the wind=[spirit.]the world=system ain,t the world=planet.

-- goteyesalve. (dogs@zianet.com), July 31, 1999

Answers

Y2K=EOTW NOT

http://www.icnet.net/users/lsimmons/y2k.htm

Looky Looky, Y2K=AOK

So much for BIBLE Doomers!!!!

-- No (Problem@all.com), July 31, 1999.


Let me state my conclusion regarding the above question at the outset. I believe that Zen is not a religion in the ordinary sense. There are several reasons I can give for this.

First of all, that which is usually referred to as religion begins and ends with the element of faith. That is, religion conventionally starts with belief in an absolute or supreme being-God or Buddha, for example-who can either be the creator of the universe or dwell in our hearts. This faith is then deepened over the days and years until it becomes unshakable. I understand that as an absolute condition for religion in the traditional sense. As for Zen, although belief in an intrinsic and essential nature, infinite and absolute, is the start of practice, it is through realizing that infinite and absolute essential nature in the experience of satori that the need for belief vanishes. Or put more succinctly, Zen practice begins with belief and ends in actual experience. Here is an aspect of Zen that distinguishes it fundamentally from religions containing only the element of faith.

A second reason why Zen is not a religion is the absence of particular scriptures to depend upon. Christianity has its Bible, Islam its Koran; even in Buddhism, the Hokke Sect has the Lotus Sutra, the Kegon Sect the Kegon Sutra, and the Jodo Sect the Jodo Sutra. These scriptures are all maintained and carefully preserved, and the interpretation of individuals words and phrases has an extremely important meaning and significance. Although it would be inaccurate to say that writings in the Zen sect are not traditional scriptures, Zen is distinguished by lacking a single scripture upon which everything depends. And although we could stretch a point, perhaps, and say the Hannyashingyo (Heart Sutra) is such a traditional scripture, as long as study of this sutra ends in intellectual discussion, it has no relation to Zen whatsoever.

Yet another reason why Zen is not a religion in the conventional sense is its very practical approach of negating all concepts. Although most religions also have a practical side known as prayer, this is usually a subjective action of the individual and not an organized system of practice. Instead, the most important role is played by the sermons of religious leaders, based mainly on inherited scriptures, or exposition of the meaning of individual words or phrases in those scriptures. Zen, however, negates all concepts; instead, the central focus is experience in which the fact is experienced as fact. Zen also has zazen, a concrete and practical method of adjusting the body, breath and spirit to realize truth. Zen has moreover developed methods of guidance toward realization in which we practice zazen to realize the fact as fact. In this respect Zen differs fundamentally from religions in the usual sense.

However, when we consider the matter carefully, is it enough in relieving human suffering and gaining true peace of mind to simply believe sacred scriptures that are a natural outpouring of the enlightenment experiences of the ancient worthies? Is it enough to be able to interpret individual phrases of those scriptures with unsurpassed skill or simply pray in that direction? When all is said and done, we cannot forego the five aspects of belief (shin), understanding (ge), practice (gyo), enlightenment (sho) and personalization (nyo). If peace of mind is truly a matter of believing and understanding a reality that we have made our own, we must practice ourselves and realize so that it becomes an immutable fact. We must then personalize that experience before we can live relatively free of worry. Viewed in this way, perhaps only Zen, with its aspects of practice and realization, can be called a religion in the true sense of the word. In Case Nine of the Blue Cliff Record, a monk asks Joshu, "What is Joshu?" Joshu is also the name of the area where Joshu Osho lived. With his question, the monk is pressing Joshu to reveal his enlightened state of consciousness. In reply, Joshu says,"East Gate, West Gate, South Gate, North Gate." Because the geographical place Joshu has an east, west, south and north gate, Master Joshu presents the monk directly with the geographical Joshu. In Joshu's consciousness, however, there are no gates at all. By his reply, Joshu reveals his totally free state of consciousness, telling the monk to enter from any gate that he wishes and Joshu will be a match for him. No matter what should enter by any one of the gates, the totally unfettered Joshu is ready with an appropriate response at that time and place.

That is the reason why Zen can accept people of any religion, and why all people, regardless of their background, can deepen their state of consciousness through Zen practice and thus savor the true meaning of the religion they profess. It is due to this special characteristic of Zen that so many Catholic priests and sisters as well as Protestant ministers come to practice at San-Un Zendo.



-- ZenMaster (Zen64@usa.net), July 31, 1999.


The Great Way is not difficult for those who do not pick and choose.

When preferences are cast aside the Way stands clear and undisguised.

But even slight distinctions made set earth and heaven far apart.

If you would clearly see the truth, discard opinions pro and con.

To founder in dislike and like is nothing but the mind's disease.

And not to see the Way's deep truth disturbs the mind's essential peace.

The Way is perfect like vast space, where there's no lack and no excess.

Our choice to choose and to reject prevents our seeing this simple truth.

Both striving for the outer world as well as for the inner void condemn us to entangled lives.

Just calmly see that all is One, and by themselves false views will go.

Attempts to stop activity will fill you with activity.

Remaining in duality, you'll never know of unity.

And not to know this unity lets conflict lead you far astray.

When you assert that things are real you miss their true reality.

But to assert that things are void also misses reality.

The more you talk and think on this the further from the truth you'll be.

Cut off all useless thought and words And there's nowhere you cannot go.

Returning to the root itself, you'll find the meaning of all things.

If you pursue appearances you overlook the primal source.

Awakening is to go beyond both emptiness as well as form.

All changes in this empty world seem real because of ignorance.

Do not go search for the truth, just let those fond opinions go.

Abide not in duality, refrain from all pursuit of it.

If there's a trace of right and wrong, True-mind is lost, confused, distaught.

From One-mind comes duality, but cling not even to this One.

When this One-mind rests undisturbed, then nothing in the world offends.

And when no thing can give offense, then all obstructions cease to be.

If all thought-objects disappear, the thinking subject drops away.

For things are things because of mind, as mind is mind because of things.

These two are merely relative, and both at source are Emptiness.

In Emptiness these are not two, yet in each are contained all froms.

Once coarse and fine are seen no more, then how can there be taking sides?

The Great Way is without limit, beyond the easy and the hard.

But those who hold to narrow views are fearful and irresolute; their frantic has just slows them down.

If you're attached to anything, you surely will go far astray.

Just let go now of clinging mind, and all things are just as they are. In essense nothing goes or stays.

See into the true self of things, and you're in step with the Great Way, thus walking freely, undisturbed.

But live in bondage to your thoughts, and you will be confused, unclear.

This heavy burden weighs you down-- O why keep judging good and bad?

If you would walk the highest Way, do not reject the sense domain.

For as it is, whole and complete, This sense world is enlightenment.

The wise do not strive after goals, but fools themselves in bondage put.

The One Way knows no differences, the foolish cling to this and that.

To seek Great Mind with thinking mind is certainly a grave mistake.

From small mind come rest and unrest, but mind awakened transcends both.

Delusion spawns dualities-- these dreams are nought but flowers of air-- why work so hard at grasping them?

Both gain and loss, and right and wrong-- once and for all get rid of them.

When you no longer are asleep, all dreams will vanish by themselves.

If mind does not discriminate, all things are as they are, as One.

To go to this mysterious Source frees us from all entanglements.

When all is seen with "equal mind," to our Self-nature we return.

This single mind goes right beyond all reasons and comparisons.

Stop movement and there's no movement, stop rest and no-rest comes instead.

When rest and no-rest cease to be, then even oneness disappears.

This ultimate finality's beyond all laws, can't be described.

With single mind one with the Way, all ego-centered strivings cease;

Doubts and confusion disappear, and so true faith pervades our life.

There is no thing that clings to us, and nothing that is left behind.

All's self-revealing, void and clear, without exerting power of mind.

Thought cannot reach this state of truth, here feelings are of no avail.

In this true world of Emptiness both self and other are no more.

To enter this true empty world, immediately affirm "not-two".

In this "not-two" all is the same, with nothing separate or outside.

The wise in all times and places awaken to this primal truth.

The Way's beyond all space, all time, one instant is ten thousand years.

Not only here, not only there, truth's right before you very eyes.

Distinctions such as large and small have relevance for you no more.

The largest is the smallest too-- here limitations have no place.

What is is not, what is not is-- if this is not yet clear to you, you're still far from the inner truth.

One thing is all, all things are one-- know this and all's whole and complete.

When faith and Mind are not separate, and not separate are Mind and faith, this is beyond all words, all thought.

For here there is no yesterday,



-- ZenMaster (Zen64@usa.net), July 31, 1999.


is=al.d,confusedOR(maybe)not/taking/his/medication=he,is,stupid,and-ne eds-to-take-a+few+days+off:or|will|certainly|continue|being|+a+moron

-- gotdogfood (cats@aianet.com), July 31, 1999.

Gross!! A troll playing with Himself. Barf!!!!

I---barf

thought---barf

I---barf

had---barf

seen---barf

everything --- barf

Please quit disrupting this forum.

Leave!

-- Johnny (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), July 31, 1999.



ZenMaster, I know you mean well, but I hate to tell you this--you're a beginner. God bless.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), July 31, 1999.

A beginner? Please don't say you know me when you have no idea!

-- ZenMaster (Zen64@usa.net), July 31, 1999.

To be enlightened is simply to be absolutely, unconditionally intimate with this moment. No more. No less.

-- ZenMaster (Zen64@usa.net), July 31, 1999.

Please explain your definition of a beginner is!

-- ZenMaster (Zen64@usa.net), July 31, 1999.

ZenMaster. I don't mean beginner's mind. I mean, get out of your head and speak from your heart. Zen is not a mental construct. Say a TRue word means say a word from that other place, not from the usual place.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWAyne@aol.com), July 31, 1999.


zeNMAstEr!!!!!! yOU soUND quITe sAGe, dO YOu noT?????? oF COursE!!!!!! buT TeLL diETeR ThIS!!!!! caN YoU FIx moTOrcycLES??????

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), July 31, 1999.

Mara,

I speak from my soul and mind!

Dieter, I had a 71 Hodaka(sp), but it was stolen out of my garage!

-- Zenmaster (Zen64@usa.net), July 31, 1999.


ZwnMaster, why does it sound as if you are stringing a bunch of quotes and lessons together? Do you think that's Zen? By the way, I got you, didn't I? That's what Gurdjieff calls "friction."

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWAyne@aol.com), July 31, 1999.

That was a good book, D

-- z (z@z.z), July 31, 1999.

Ah, the weekends!! We can depend on the obsurd from Al-d and whatever freak is following him at the moment. Sub-human BoB, now the Zen Master. Clowns to the left, Clowns to the right.......

-- For (your@info.com), July 31, 1999.


ZwnMaster, why does it sound as if you are stringing a bunch of quotes and lessons together? Do you think that's Zen? By the way, I got you, didn't I? That's what Gurdjieff calls "friction."

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWAyne@aol.com), July 31, 1999.

Yes Mara it is true you got me! What you got I dont know, but I am sure you have a good idea what it is!

-- ZenMaster (Zen64@usa.net), July 31, 1999.


Mara,

True Zen consists of sitting quietly in the correct posture. It is not a special state, it is the normal state: silent, peaceful, without agitation. Zen means to put the mind at rest and to concentrate the mind and body. In zazen there is no purpose, no seeking to gain something, no special effort or imagination. It is not knowledge to be grasped by the brain. It is solely a practice, a practice which is the true gate to happiness, peace and freedom. If you have any more questions, please let me know.

-- ZenMaster (Zen64@usa.net), July 31, 1999.


The correct attitude of mind comes naturally from a deep concentration during zazen on the posture and the breathing. During zazen the conscious flow of thought from the cerebral cortex is greatly diminished and the thinking brain becomes calm and cool. Blood flows toward the deeper layers of the brain, the thalamus and the hypo-thalamus, and this body-brain becomes more active and developed. The nervous system becomes relaxed while our deeper brain becomes more active. Receptive and attentive in every cell of the body, you learns to think with the body, unconsciously. During zazen, thoughts, conscious and subconscious, naturally and continuously rise to the surface of our mind. Don't try to stop these thoughts from arising. But at the same time, don't get involved with the thoughts or let them take you away from concentration on posture and breathing. Just let the thoughts pass, like clouds in the sky, neither opposing them nor attaching to them. Shadows pass and vanish. Images arise from the subconscious, then disappear. The brain becomes deeply calm. One arrives at the deep unconscious, beyond thought, to hishiryo consciousness, true purity. Hishiryo is the unconscious of Zen--universal mind. In Japanese, shiryo is thinking, fushiryo non-thinking. But hishiryo is absolute thinking, beyond thinking and non-thinking. Beyond categories, opposites, contradictions. Beyond all problems of personal consciousness. Our original nature, Buddha nature, the Cosmic unconscious. When the mind empties and the intellect is calm, peaceful, at rest, nothing obstructs the deep intuitive and unlimited life force that springs up from the depths of our being, that which precedes all thought, the eternal flow of the activity of the Cosmos. Practicing zazen, sitting concentration, without object or goal, you can experience hishiryo and understand mushotoku, the secret and essence of Zen. But this understanding must be beyond that of common sense or intellectual logic. It is direct perception, here and now. Mushotoku is the attitude of non-profit, of not wanting to gain anything for yourself. It is essential to true Zen practice. Giving without expecting to receive, abandoning everything without fear of losing, observing oneself. Zen students develop wisdom if they are vigilant in their Zen practice, in their effort to know themselves, to go beyond themselves, to give of themselves without expecting any personal gain. If you abandon all, you will obtain all. Hishiryo is cosmic consciousness and not personal consciousness. We can directly experience this during zazen. We usually thinking of our family, friends, anxieties, jobs, holidays, all the phenomena that arise from our memories and daily life. But during zazen, we concentrate on posture and breathing, our thinking calms and cools, we harmonize with the cosmic current and abandon our ego selves, permitting the subconscious to rise to the surface. Our thoughts expand and deepen, attaining universal consciousness. Through zazen we can go to the bottom of this ultimate consciousness. This is the essential art of zazen. "Thinking non-thinking," wrote Master Dogen, "How do we think without thinking? Think from the depths of non-thinking." This is cosmic consciousness. Hishiryo consciousness. Our conscious senses cannot define it, words cannot explain it. It comes only through our living zazen experience. Hishiryo is the harmonizing of objective and subjective views, ultimate consciousness beyond time and space, the highest consciousness, universal, beyond all existences, beyond thinking and non-thinking. To experience hishiryo consciousness, that is Zen.

-- ZenMaster (Zen64@usa.net), July 31, 1999.

Mara seems to be a little pissy. Maybe she has that ever popular Christian jealousy. No one is paying any attention to Mara so she has try to screw someone elses day up. Why is it you question ZenMasters beliefs, but won't come close to Al-D. Oh thats right you belong to the same club, the "we are better then you cause we are Christians" club.

-- (justathought@oh.real), July 31, 1999.

keep up the good work mara=JESUS love,s you+i hate to tell these folk,s that are talkin about buddha that they are goin to hell=(but they are)they are just COWARD,S/'

-- dogs., (dogs@zianet.com), July 31, 1999.

Na -nana- na -na!

-- citizen (lost@sea.com), July 31, 1999.

I believe the term is: Attack the message not the messenger. Just a thought.

-- SgtSchultz (SgtHansSchultz@stalag13.com), July 31, 1999.

hopefully we will see the end of the guilt driven middle eastern mono theistic cults.

-- next please (godcrap@dodo.net), July 31, 1999.

i don,t follow chris. I listen to the CHRIST. big=difference.

-- christians????? (dogs@zianet.com), August 01, 1999.

"The great path has no gates, Thousands of roads enter it. When one passes through this gateless gate He walks freely between heaven and earth."

-- ZenMaster (zen64@usa.net), August 01, 1999.

One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious

-- ZenMaster (Zen64@usa.net), August 01, 1999.

Okay, my turn......

Goo goo g'jube......

I am the eggman, I am the walrus

Semolina Pilchard, climbing up the Eiffel Tower......

Man you should have seen them kicking Edgar Allen Poe.........

My Maserati does 185.....

I lost my license so now I don't drive......

You may say I'm a dreamer......But I'm not the only one.....

I hope some day you will join us.......And the world will be as one......

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), August 01, 1999.


Awwhhh shucks, I thought this was an Andy Ray post...

I was going to ask him...

"Does end of your welcome here" = "Playing with HTML(???) ???"

But, this ain't an Andy Ray post... <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), August 01, 1999.


Since when does the practice of Zen include proselytizing? Has there been a hostile takeover of the Zen Buddhists by the Jehova Witnesses that didn't make the business pages? Who's that knocking at my door?
Who's that knocking at my door?
Who's that knocking at my door?
Why it must be the Zen Witnesses.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), August 01, 1999.

The Zen Witnesses merely stand at the door, yet do not knock.

-- Spidey (in@maj.commune), August 01, 1999.

The master,seeing the beginner sitting in zazen,asked the young novice why he was sitting.The novice replied;"so that I may become a buddha!" The master,hearing this,picked up a clay tile and started polishing it.The novice,seeing this,asked the master;"why are you polishing that tile?"The master replied;"to make a mirror!" The now confused student asked; "how does polishing a tile make a mirror"? The master replied;"How does sitting make a buddha?

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 01, 1999.

To apply the teachings of the prajnaparamita sutta...when the last individule hsa crossed the steam of dukka to the shores of sukka,the tathagata does not consider that a single being has been liberated.that's why we can say they've been liberated.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 01, 1999.

zen master,ego causes dukka(suffering),self aggrandizment=ego=suffering.To call yourself "ZEN MASTER" clearly marks you as not being a master.Beware the subtle attachment to non- attachment.It's a deep dark pit that will make for unproductive practice.Don't worry,that pesky monkey mind messes with all of us,reguardless of sect.just keep returning to the breath.And stay humble

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 01, 1999.

upon arriving at the dojo,the novice was invited to tea with the master.Attempting to explain the local meditative practice,the master found himself continualy interrupted by the novice with outbursts of "Oh,yes I know thatand "I've already mastered that" and "yeah,yeah,I don't need to do that,I've studied the the Hokke Sect's Lotus Sutra, the Kegon Sect's Kegon Sutra, and the Jodo Sect's Jodo Sutra.Moreover,I've applied the teachings of the Hannyashingyo sutra with no intellectual obfucations,thus insuring that I am practicing perfect zen!" the master,hearing this,began to fill the novice's cup,filled it to the rim,then overflowing,and still he poured."ENOUGH!!ENOUGH!!"the self-impressed novice cried,"my cup is full"!!"Of course your cup is full",replied the master,"it is full of your ego and preconceptions,if you cannot empty your cup,how will you ever be able to taste what we have to offer?"

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 01, 1999.

I like that.. Zen Witnesses only stand at the door.. they do not knock. Good one. [or should we call them Jehova's Buddhists?.. or Buddha's Witnesses?.. or since they are trying to reach a state of no-mind.. how about Zen Witlesses?]

And....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DRIVE YOUR KARMA -- CURB YOUR DOGMA

Swami Beyondananada's Ten Guidelines for Enlightenment

1. Be a Fundamentalist -- ensure that the Fun always comes before the Mental. Realize that life is a situation comedy that will never be canceled. A laugh track has been provided and the reason we are put in the material world is to get more material. Have a good laughsitive twice a day, which will ensure reguhilarity.

2. Remember that each of us has been given a special gift just for entering, so you are already a winner!

3. The most powerful tool on the planet today is Tell-A-Vision. That's where I tell a vision to you and you tell a vision to me. That way, if we don't like the programming we're getting, we can change the channel.

4. Life is like photography -- you use the negative to develop. No matter what adversity you face, be reassured: Of course God loves you -- He's just not ready to make a commitment.

5. It is true: As we go through life thinking heavy thoughts, thought particles tend to get caught between the ears and cause a condition called "truth decay". Be sure to use mental floss twice a day, and when you're tempted to practice 'tantrum yoga', remember what we teach in the Swami's Absurdiveness Training Class: DON'T GET EVEN, GET ODD.

6. If we want world peace, we must let go of our attachments and truly live like nomads. That's where I no mad at you and you no mad at me. That way there'll surely be nomadness on the planet. Peace begins with each of us. A little peace here, a little peace there. Pretty soon all the peaces will fit together to make one big peace everywhere.

7. I know great earth changes have been predicted for the future, so if you're looking to avoid earthquakes my advice is simple: When you find a fault don't dwell on it.

8. There's no need to change the world. All we have to do is toilet train the world and we'll never have to change it again.

9. If you're looking for the key to the Universe I've got some good news and some bad news.

The bad news: There is no key to the Universe.

The good news: It was never locked.

10. Finally, everything I've told you is channeled. That way, if you don't like it it's not my fault. But remember: Enlightenment is not a bureaucracy, so you don't have to go through channels.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), August 01, 1999.


zen master Thich Nhat Hahn's 14 precepts:

"Do not be idolatrous about or bound to any doctrine, theory, or ideology, even Buddhist ones. All systems of thought are guiding means; they are not absolute truth.

Do not think that the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow-minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice non-attachment from views in order to be open to receive others' viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout our entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times.

Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education. However, through compassionate dialogue, help others renounce fanaticism and narrowness.

Do not avoid contact with suffering or close your eyes before suffering. Do not lose awareness of the existence of suffering in the life of the world. find ways to be with those who are suffering by all means, including personal contact and visits, images, sound. By such means, awaken yourself and others to the reality of suffering in the world.

Do not accumulate wealth while millions are hungry. Do not take as the aim of you life fame, profit, wealth, or sensual pleasure. Live simply and share time, energy, and material resources with those who are in need.

Do not maintain anger or hatred. As soon as anger and hatred arise, practice the meditation on compassion in order to deeply understand the persons who have caused anger and hatred. Learn to look at other beings with the eyes of compassion.

Do not lose yourself in dispersion and in your surroundings. Learn to practice breathing in order to regain composure of body and mind, to practice mindfulness, and to develop concentration and understanding.

Do not utter words that can create discord and cause the community to break. Make every effort to reconcile and resolve all conflicts, however small.

Do not say untruthful things for the sake of personal interest of to impress people. Do not utter words that cause diversion and hatred. Do not spread news that you do not know to be certain. Do not criticize or condemn things you are not sure of. Always speak truthfully and constructively. Have the courage to speak out about situations of injustice, even when doing so may threaten your own safety.

Do not use the Buddhist community for personal gain or profit, or transform your community into a political party. A religious community should, however, take a clear stand against oppression and injustice, and should strive to change the situation without engaging in partisan conflicts.

Do not live with a vocation that is harmful to humans and nature. Do not invest in companies that deprive others of their chance to life. Select a vocation which helps realize your ideal compassion.

Do not kill. Do not let others kill. Find whatever means possible to protect life and to prevent war.

Possess nothing that should belong to others. Respect the property of others but prevent others from enriching themselves from human suffering or the suffering of other beings.

Do not mistreat your body. Learn to handle it with respect. Do not look on your body as only and instrument. Preserve vital energies (sexual, breath, spirit) for the realization of the Way. Sexual expression should not happen without love and commitment. In sexual relationships be aware of future suffering that may be caused. To preserve the happiness of others, respect the rights and commitments of others. Be fully aware of the responsibility of bringing new lives into the world. Meditate on the world into which you are bringing new beings.

Do not believe that I feel that I follow each and every of these precepts perfectly. I know I fail in many ways. None of us can fully fulfill any of these. However, I must work toward a goal. These are my goal. No words can replace practice, only practice can make the words.

"The finger pointing at the moon is not the moon."

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 02, 1999.


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