Question says it all. I would like to see such animal. Cory started his years ago and charged nothing for it, gained nothing from it but recognition. Why hasn't a polly done the the same? It would be widely read from the word go, just by it's nature.

Well???

-- Art Welling (artw@lancnews.infi.net), July 31, 1999

Answers

It would require devising a logical arguement. They have been able to provide this in 'individual' circumstances, but *always* fail to address the 'whole enchilada' being connected and dependent upon a myriad of contributing factors.

I don't fault them for this inability, not everyone is able to see it. It simply chars me to be continuously called upon to proove something so blatantly obvious to them time and time again. I find my patience withering similarly to when a child refuses to accept an answer given to a question, that they don't care for!

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), July 31, 1999.

Will;

So you have met my kids?????? ;)

-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), July 31, 1999.

Cherri, Hoffmeister, Flint, Maria, Beano, y2k Amateur, Anita, Decker, Poole, Davis etc and so on, "Front and Center Please". Art has asked a REASONABLE question here, let's see what you have to say.

Your Pal, Ray

PS If I left anyone out my humble apologies!!

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), July 31, 1999.

My sincere apologies to Uncle Deedah Doo Doo for having left him off the previous list of illustrious characters.

This was brought to my attention while scanning this mornings list of new threads. Thanks Andy!!

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), July 31, 1999.

Will Continue is correct. It is the full scope, complexity, and interconnected nature of this problem that escapes the Polly mind. They can clearly see the problem at their local, 2 dimensional level. At that level it is capable of being dealt with. When you ask them to rise above the flat earth view and look at this with a full 3 dimensional perspective, they can't. It is precisely that shortcoming that precludes them from dealing with the global nature of the dangers.

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), July 31, 1999.

To Gordon,

Kinda like when I used to go shopping with my wife for some material with which to make a dress (skirt, blouse, etc,). She would ask me what I thought of a given bolt of material, and the best I could come up with is "It would make a nice tablecloth". I just couldn't picture it as it would appear in the finished form.

Does that make sense?

Gerald

-- Gerald R. Cox (grcox@internetwork.net), July 31, 1999.

Uhh, the dress was for HER, not ME.

-- Gerald R. Cox (grcox@internetwork.net), July 31, 1999.

Cory Hamasaki has made a TREMENDOUS contribution to y2k awareness and as Art indicates the only real compensation he has received has been a degree of personal recognition.

Now SOME of these weasels I have named above have taken it upon themselves to attack Cory continuously, yet have offered NOTHING of value to the forum. What a bunch of LOSERS.

I think Cory Hamasaki deserves all of the THANKS we can muster !!

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), July 31, 1999.

Art,

Good to see you again! Great question.

Ray,

Thanks for reminding me: Cory, my undying gratitude and appreciation. Have admired your humor and passion from the git go. Truly wish you the best.

-- Faith Weaver (suzsolutions@yahoo.com), July 31, 1999.

Will Continue said: It simply chars me to be continuously called upon to proove something so blatantly obvious to them time and time again. I find my patience withering...

This is why I've become so MILITANT in the past few weeks. Last fall, and even into the spring, I could engage in a polite (ususally!) philosophical discussion of the releative merits of either side. But as the clock SCREAMS down toward ZERO DAY, I find the time for these discussions is LONG PAST.

All they (pollys) are doing now is delaying people who listen to them from preparing. (And we have ALL seen a marked INCREASE in preparedness questions, which the pollys decry. "WHY is the discussion SHIFTING?" they cry... Absolutely F**KING CLUELESS.)

Well, these people will soon be forever removed from the gene pool. Darwin would be proud.

153 days remain.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), July 31, 1999.

And people call me arrogant? (laughter) So, pessimists like Will have this ability to see the "big picture." Is this why the pessimists on this forum are the captains of industry... leaders of the free world? How many Fortune 1000 CEOs or CIOs present? None? They must not be able to see the "big" picture. Only a select few (cleverly disguised as middle class Americans) have the mental capacity to understand the THE ENTIRE SYSTEM. Of course, none of these people actually run any part of the system... they just have a level of intelligence unknown to the rest of us. Perhaps alien forces at work?

Why don't you folks just turn your massive brainpower onto making money... buy an island nation and relocate. This way Ray can establish his personal economic system complete with gold standard and 100% reserve requirements. King of Spain can sit as monarch and Will can handle the animal husbandry. "a" can serve as minister of public morality and conduct a personal SETI project. (Oh, I can see a post here... and maybe a national anthem for your little country.)

By the way, the "Polly" weather reports are called the wire services.

Regards,

-- Mr. Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), July 31, 1999.

Decker commented:

"By the way, the "Polly" weather reports are called the wire services. "

Well Decker it finally comes out in the wash, why you are so CONFUSED, that is.

Now let's get back to the discussion. The question is "Why Haven't The Pollies Put Up a WRP Of Their Own"??? And the answer is??????

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), July 31, 1999.

Art:

I will begin by making the assumption that you're asking why technical folks with optimistic views on the unfolding of Y2k haven't come forth with a newsletter that appeals to the general audience. Is this correct?

If not, the following won't answer your question, but if so, I'll continue.

As a big iron programmer, I've known about Y2k for years. I didn't become interested in anything OTHER than remediation of the problem until about 6 technical types began discussing Y2k on a technology forum. A separate forum was soon thereafter established to discuss remediation issues and provide technical information for other remediators. It was a public forum and soon a general audience came in asking questions. We provided information to these folks on how to ensure their P.C.'s would work after rollover, etc. Then other audiences came in, some asking for information on preparation, and some declaring that the Year 2000 would be the second coming, etc. A few other technical types came and went in the interim period. I was the last founder of the remediation forum to leave. The forum had turned into a place where folks came to discuss their political ideologies, their religious ideologies, their distrust of government, etc. and how all these things would impact the unfolding of Y2k.

The above paragraph was included simply to give you some background on why I, personally, still lurk and occasionally post on Y2k fora. The 50-150 contractors in my network do NOT. They have no idea who Cory Hamasaki, Gary North, Michael Hyatt, Ed Yourdon (outside of his contributions to program design) are, nor are they aware that Mr. Yourdon has written books on Y2k. They simply do the work, get the job done, and move on to the next client's site. I guess the bottomline is that if you spend all day at work on a computer, the last thing you want to do in your spare time is spend time on a computer.

Now...your question addresses why there isn't a newsletter for optimistic news on Y2k. I'd have to ask what audience such a newsletter would attract. Is there a newspaper that provides the humdrum details of say millions of high-schoolers going to school each day and not killing anyone in the effort?

-- Anita (spoonera@msn.com), July 31, 1999.

Anita commented:

"Now...your question addresses why there isn't a newsletter for optimistic news on Y2k. I'd have to ask what audience such a newsletter would attract."

Well now isn't that interesting Anita, the SIMPLE answer to your question is, the Polly Newsletter would attract EXACTLY the same people you and your ILK are TRYING to convince HERE that y2k is going to be a "Bump In The Road".

Start writing!!

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), July 31, 1999.

Hi Art:

Thanks for the excellent question.

I figure my "name-sake" has, in her own way, answered you with this quote: "The 50-150 contractors in my network do NOT. They have no idea who Cory Hamasaki, Gary North, Michael Hyatt, Ed Yourdon (outside of his contributions to program design) are, nor are they aware that Mr. Yourdon has written books on Y2k. (snip) I guess the bottomline is that if you spend all day at work on a computer, the last thing you want to do in your spare time is spend time on a computer."

You see, Art? She says that her computer friends are ignorant about the names of people.....and that they don't like to spend their spare time on computers (unlike her, I guess).

That should clear it up, right?

Anita Evangelista

-- Anita Evangelista (ale@townsqr.com), July 31, 1999.

Anita E:

Anita S. is between contracts right now, and has the time to spend.... Just like I'm not getting enough to do at work, so *I* have the time as well.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), July 31, 1999.

Dennis said "Well, these people will soon be forever removed from the gene pool. Darwin would be proud."

If you consider that 98% of the population are of the same average intellectual level, and that same percentage exists in the government (take Sen. Gramm and Al Gore's comments which reveal much in the way of their Y2K understanding for example), and the Darwinian culling image begins to look rather frightening...That image is my motivator to keep trying to knock some sense into pollys. I just wish I had an unlimited supply of patience...sigh.

-- Chris (%$^&^@pond.com), July 31, 1999.

It's pointless to ask questions like this to Pollys. They're incapable of giving a straight answer, as we've already seen.

If you consider that 98% of the population are of the same average intellectual level, and that same percentage exists in the government (take Sen. Gramm and Al Gore's comments which reveal much in the way of their Y2K understanding for example), and the Darwinian culling image begins to look rather frightening.

Oh, I don't know about that.

-- (its@coming.soon), July 31, 1999.

Gary North has ALWAYS challenged anyone to take the SAME data that he presents on his www.garynorth.com website with his commentary, and put up a website giving THEIR (polly) commentary on it. Of course, noone has ever done this. (Well, OK, there is the hilarious www.garysouth.com website, but I don't think that quite fits the bill here.)

Pollys always have to take a defensive position, along the lines of "Now, it won't be THAT bad", "It WILL get fixed", "Nobody knows for SURE what will happen", etc. Actually putting forth a logical cohesive set of documentary evidence showing why Y2K will be a bump in the road is not possible, because the evidence is not there, and they know it.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), July 31, 1999.

I think Anita trumped Anita.

The point being, these programmers obviously have "tunnel vision."

Do they ever watch the news? Do they know the origin country of the chocolate in the icing on their morning donuts?

I'm not blaming them. Nonetheless, it sounds like tunnel vision to me.

That notwithstanding, I'd love to see such a newsletter. Really. Why doesn't someone suggest this over at the debunker forum?

-- looking (beyond-the-trees@the.forest), July 31, 1999.

Well Art, needless to say, I am very disappointed. Here you throw out a smple question and to date have received only two (2) answers. Both of which are quite WEAK !!

Pollies, I know your out there, please let's hear from you. Take a minute out from play time over at "Der Bonkah" and give Art some straight answers.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), July 31, 1999.

Its called Gary North is a Big Fat Idiot forum.

START AT THE BOTTOM AND READ YOUR WAY UP.

ALL of the y2k nutcases are dealt with, and their arguments TRASHED!

(there are several technical lists that most of you ((apologies to Mr. Decker & Ms Spooner)) could never even get on, let alone understand! THAT is the news you speak of, but will not accept. It is all "cover-up" and "conspiracy" in your little minds. HAH. how pathetic!)

-- Moron Thumper (loonies@need.tuning), July 31, 1999.

The intelligence quotient of the previous post (Moron Thumper) is quite underwhelming!!

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), July 31, 1999.

I've seen this question (or a variant thereof) several times, and I'm always amaized by it. As a "Polly" in long standing around here, I'll let you in on the obvious. There are two reasons, either or both of which may apply depending on the individual.

1. It's common to see people railing about something bad that they believe is going to happen. They march with placards, write books and pamphlets, even put up web sites. To a lesser extent, it is common to see folks trumpeting their viewpoint when they believe something wonderfull is going to happen. But how many people have you ever seen spending a lot of time and effort saying "nothing at all is going to happen?" (This isn't me, but it certainly does apply to a lot of folks that are generallly refered to here as DGI's.)

2. Those of us who believe that the problem is in fact serious but manageable have been doing two other things with the (rather considerable) time it would take to manage such a site. First, we've actually been out there in the world doing something to help manage the problem. Second, since we expect no severe disruptions to affect us, we've been going about the normal course of our lives. After all, if we don't believe our lives will be seriously disrupted, why not continue to live pretty much as we did before?

-- Paul Neuhardt (neuhardt@ultranet.com), July 31, 1999.

Paul N. said: " Those of us who believe that the problem is in fact serious but manageable have been doing two other things with the (rather considerable) time it would take to manage such a site. First, we've actually been out there in the world doing something to help manage the problem. Second, since we expect no severe disruptions to affect us, we've been going about the normal course of our lives. After all, if we don't believe our lives will be seriously disrupted, why not continue to live pretty much as we did before?"

Well, Paul, this confuses me. You said that pollies don't bother with a site because they've been "out in the world doing something to manage the problem".....I'm confused because geek-GIs on this forum have been "out in the world doing something to manage the problem", too. Even Cory Hamasaki is involved with some y2k remediations -- but he has "found time" to support his position.

And if you truly believe your life "won't be seriously disrupted" and are just "going along the normal course" of your life, then why are you bothering to post at this GI forum? Surely, the "normal course" of your life prior to coming to this bb NEVER included continuously dealing with and trying to disuade "people railing about something bad that they believe is going to happen" on the internet.

It surely couldn't take any more time to put together some polly WRPs than it does to write up all the polly commentary on this site. Cut and paste, and you've got it. Hardly any time at all.

Anita Evangelista

-- Anita Evangelista (ale@townsqr.com), July 31, 1999.

For bumbling, rambling, disconnected diatribe, a polly WRP would be hard to duplicate. It would be pretty difficult to duplicate a terrible writing style like you see in the weather reports.

Cory kinda loses it and goes off into long childish sounding technical rants when anyone dares ask a question or challenge any of his warped ideas. Kind of a 'baffle 'em with bullshit' technique I guess. He does have a lot of stuff there, but it seems to me that none of it has ever been verifiable, its always 'heard thru 'de grapevine' trash. That or he will brag about what a big shot he is, and all the big people he knows.

I have never seen him be in the least convincing in a civil, rational arguement. He's not as bad as Paul Milne, but I think he's getting closer to that extreme. All that education he brags about, and he never took a debate or writing class?

I know programmers and techs that work y2k day-to-day, and they are in the same class as me and a lot of other 'pollies'. Sure, its a problem, but not the end of the world. I'm sure it won't go un-noticed. There will be some disruptions and annoyances, but its not Mad-Max, or the end of western civilization, no matter how bad some of the doomsday club wish it to be.

There's probably more danger from some y2k nutcase going off the deep end when his wishes for collapse don't come true after the rollover than there is from the root problem itself. Prepare for the end of the world if you want, but I just don't see it.

-- Richard Weed (dickweed62@hotmail.com), July 31, 1999.

Another supercilious polly infected with the BITR "memer" tsking how Doomers will go off the deep end of raging disappointment if the world doesn't end in ruthless collapse. Another completely clueless Polly.

-- what's wrong with them (who cares?@they're.history), July 31, 1999.

 There may be an answer to your question folks. Arnold was the only real challange to Corys search for a "polly" programmer.

His home page is below and then next is the STL Time Machine Reports on the work that has been done in remediation of the Master Charge systems. His benevolent employer for those that remember.

While not a "polly" Arnold is still more of an optimist that most that understands Y2K.

Not only that his documentation has been around almost as long as Cory's weather reports. In a manner of speaking I have seen Arnold be a unsung hero in the efforts to understand the real challanges of Y2K.

It amazes me that with all the Y2K addicts on this forum no one has come up with this suggestion. Less yakking and more research folks.
 
 

+Arnold Trembley's Home Page MasterCharge, Time Machine

 Year 2000 Time Machine Testing

-- Brian (imager@home.com), July 31, 1999.

Thanks for the plug, Brian. Y2k is too big and fuzzy for any single person to understand completely. What I know is how to fix a COBOL program so it won't break, and by working with a team, I know how to fix a few systems so they won't break.

I can't fix an entire civilization. It's too hard to identify each single point of failure, and I don't understand all the negative feedback loops. Plus I have no interest in becoming world dictator.

Human systems are pretty adaptive. We'll probably be okay. Not perfect, but okay.

I read Cory because he write so many colorful, funny things. And he knows his mainframe stuff, he's not lying to you. But even he doesn't know what will happen.

Only 20 days left until GPS rollover...

-- Arnold Trembley (arnold.trembley@worldnet.att.net), August 01, 1999.

Ray,

When did I become a polly? Or were you just dreaming about me again, and getting it confused with the real world?

Don't let a little criticism of your behavior cloud your mind to the truth Ray, I have always been, and still remain, a pessimist about Y2K. See beyond the messinger and focus on the message Ray, that was the point of my little rant towards you, or did you miss that too? How can I take your views seriously when it is so obvious that you do not pay attention?

So please point out my polly posts for us all, Ray. Make it quick as I am getting very dirty rolling in the mud with you. (hear that King?)

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), August 01, 1999.

-- HAPPY, HAPPY, JOY, JOY --

The Official Polly Perspective

Issue One, Four Pages, Price: Free

Dedicated to Pollyanna, our optimistic heroine, an inspiration to us all!

Top Story: "I'm OK, You're OK, Y2K is OK! How to plan for that lavish Millennium Party: Be the Envy of Your Neighborhood!" by Peester Numbnumb

on page 2: "The Banks Are Safe: Those Metal Vaults Have Really Hard Steel!" by Enid Grooker

on page 3: "I've Invested ALL My Savings In Stocks and Will Double My Money in Two Years!" by Hicky Beaver

on page 4: "Why I Don't Feel Guilty About My Gas Guzzler: Gas Is Plentiful!" by Fert Wingding

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), August 01, 1999.

Cute, Randolph.

As you may have noticed, however, most folks that are considered to be polyannas DO believe that there will be SOME consequences to Y2k.

I'm, personally, more curious to learn why Cory posted anonymously in this thread. I've only had two discussions with Cory on csy2k, but he used TRUMP both times. I suppose we ALL know that donuts seem to make his morning.

A THOUGHT ON DONUTS:

Remediators throughout the world are working up to 12 hours/day, sometimes 7 days/week. How does a project get done if the remediators start their day with donuts? Could this be the difference between successful remediation and unsuccessful remediation? I would think we all know that unless we have a combination of protein and carbohydrates, our "staying" power will soon diminish. A donut for breakfast provides a quick burst of energy yet soon provides illogical thinking and general lethargy.

As PROOF of this theory, I provide Homer Simpson as an example. [grin] Perhaps if we shut off the supply of donuts to Washington, D.C., the remediators will actually eat healthy breakfasts and be able to think their entire shift?

Just a thought or two.

-- Anita (spoonera@msn.com), August 01, 1999.