Well, --a and I got into a spirited debate on government and this Administration in particular on the Secretary Cohen thread below

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0018ov

and --a asks some interesting questions I thought we should consider. --a asks: >>>INVAR, I have a question. Is everyone in the government sinister and evil?<<< Depends on their motives for public service. If they are there to serve their constituency without the desire for notoriety and can withstand the disease of hubris power mongering (otherwise known as the Beltway disease), then I can say they are probably good servants of the public. I just hate the welfare state. It's a modern day form of slavery that simply keeps career politicians in power. If their desires are to be a hero, to achieve greatness, have a career in government and to preserve the party they are a member to power...they are self-serving and of course...evil. This will come into play if Y2K causes huge disruptions and government steps in to establish order. I would remind you --a, that this nation was FOUNDED on the complete mistrust, dislike and suspicion of government. It is our birthright. It was our charge to distrust the government and to keep it in check with our freedoms. Obviously we have failed. I think it's unpatriotic to unquestionably trust our government. the exact opposite of thinking today. >>>Are there any government agents or employees that have noble motives and good intent? How can you tell the difference and be so sure? <<< I'm not God, can't see into motives. Can only do what God instructs us to do when deciding character...judge them by their fruits. I ask you, doth the fruits of this government not stink of rot and decay? If you agree, then how might this festering cauldron of snakes handle our freedoms and liberties in a Y2K crisis? Do you trust them blindly? >>>What percent fall into the sinister category and what percent in the benign?<<< Okay, I'll bite. At this moment in time, I say get rid of ALL of them as sinister and start fresh. You cannot leave infected cancer cells within a host, even though the tumor is removed. You must cut out ALL the diseased tissue and start fresh. This is how I look at our government today: fat, lazy, power mad, inneffective, bloated, wasteful, coniving, self-serving and ultimately the Destroyers of our Freedoms. This of course is my wish...but not likely. We as Americans have given up our birthright. Most of us don't even vote anymore. THAT was the only mechanism save revolution to keep our government honest and with our best interests at heart as a nation. >>>And another, if I may: How would you have prevented the current situation, ie threat of biological terrorism, from arising if you had been the president of the US? If you could not have prevented it, what steps would you be taking now to combat it? -- a (a@a.a), July 27, 1999.<<< Thank you for the question --a. First let me say that I lack the moral and decisive character to be President. So these are my opinions as a voice. First I would have made sure that we, the United States of America had the biggest, baddest, most well paid and technologically advanced military on the planet...bar none. We would have NEVER bombed Serbia or Sudan or Afghanistan like we did. I would make sure our Intelligence community was TOP NOTCH and well cared for. And I would have used the bully -pulpit to educate America why we need the expenses of these tools of ensuring our freedom. I would have NEVER sold sensitive of even POTENTIALLY sensitive technology to anyone for any reason much less for campaign contributions to keep me in power. In other words --a, I would not have allowed this nation to become so weak morally and physically. I would not have ignored foreign policy issues in favor of Domestic Emotional Rhetoric as a platform in which to ensure my political viability. We live in a dangerous world with nations that HATE the ideals of freedom we cherish. I would not be so selfish as to ignore these problems to keep myself ahead in the polls. Under my watch, if individuals were caught or even suspected of espionage, the full weight and force of the FBI, CIA and Secret Service would weed the bastards out...they would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law...and if found guilty...executed SWIFTLY. If I could not have prevented the situations of proliferations and biological weapons threats, I would utilize the CIA and its field agents to find, infiltrate and then neutralize the threat with the full force of the U.S. military. We would not tolerate such threats to our nation or peoples. Justice would be swift and severe, with EVIDENCE...CLEAR EVIDENCE of the threats posed to us presented to the world as a witness to justify our actions. If that sounds harsh, I will remind you that we rebuilt both Germany and Japan after WWII, so our mercy and generosity is quite well documented. I just think the world needs to respect us out of FEAR if they cross the line of our security. We just don't have it now at all. Reagan proved a strong military, and the fear of our might brings totalitarian regimes to the negotiating table...and ultimately to collapse. Do we need government? Sure, to provide for the common defense and to maintain the parameters outlined in the Constitution. I just think the American people used to be better able to take care of themselves than to wait upon government. Your shot sir.......

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), July 27, 1999

Answers

What the heck happened up there? Okay, let me try to post this so it's easier to read:

Well, --a and I got into a spirited debate on government and this Administration in particular on the Secretary Cohen thread below

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch- msg.tcl?msg_id=0018ov

and --a asks some interesting questions I thought we should consider.

--a asks:

>>>INVAR, I have a question. Is everyone in the government sinister and evil?<<<

Depends on their motives for public service. If they are there to serve their constituency without the desire for notoriety and can withstand the disease of hubris power mongering (otherwise known as the Beltway disease), then I can say they are probably good servants of the public. I just hate the welfare state. It's a modern day form of slavery that simply keeps career politicians in power. If their desires are to be a hero, to achieve greatness, have a career in government and to preserve the party they are a member to power...they are self-serving and of course...evil. This will come into play if Y2K causes huge disruptions and government steps in to establish order. I would remind you --a, that this nation was FOUNDED on the complete mistrust, dislike and suspicion of government. It is our birthright. It was our charge to distrust the government and to keep it in check with our freedoms. Obviously we have failed. I think it's unpatriotic to unquestionably trust our government. the exact opposite of thinking today.

>>>Are there any government agents or employees that have noble motives and good intent? How can you tell the difference and be so sure? <<<

I'm not God, can't see into motives. Can only do what God instructs us to do when deciding character...judge them by their fruits. I ask you, doth the fruits of this government not stink of rot and decay? If you agree, then how might this festering cauldron of snakes handle our freedoms and liberties in a Y2K crisis? Do you trust them blindly?

>>>What percent fall into the sinister category and what percent in the benign?<<<

Okay, I'll bite. At this moment in time, I say get rid of ALL of them as sinister and start fresh. You cannot leave infected cancer cells within a host, even though the tumor is removed. You must cut out ALL the diseased tissue and start fresh. This is how I look at our government today: fat, lazy, power mad, inneffective, bloated, wasteful, coniving, self-serving and ultimately the Destroyers of our Freedoms. This of course is my wish...but not likely. We as Americans have given up our birthright. Most of us don't even vote anymore. THAT was the only mechanism save revolution to keep our government honest and with our best interests at heart as a nation.

>>>And another, if I may: How would you have prevented the current situation, ie threat of biological terrorism, from arising if you had been the president of the US? If you could not have prevented it, what steps would you be taking now to combat it? -- a (a@a.a), July 27, 1999.<<<

Thank you for the question --a. First let me say that I lack the moral and decisive character to be President. So these are my opinions as a voice.

First I would have made sure that we, the United States of America had the biggest, baddest, most well paid and technologically advanced military on the planet...bar none. We would have NEVER bombed Serbia or Sudan or Afghanistan like we did. I would make sure our Intelligence community was TOP NOTCH and well cared for. And I would have used the bully -pulpit to educate America why we need the expenses of these tools of ensuring our freedom. I would have NEVER sold sensitive of even POTENTIALLY sensitive technology to anyone for any reason much less for campaign contributions to keep me in power. In other words --a, I would not have allowed this nation to become so weak morally and physically.

I would not have ignored foreign policy issues in favor of Domestic Emotional Rhetoric as a platform in which to ensure my political viability.

We live in a dangerous world with nations that HATE the ideals of freedom we cherish. I would not be so selfish as to ignore these problems to keep myself ahead in the polls.

Under my watch, if individuals were caught or even suspected of espionage, the full weight and force of the FBI, CIA and Secret Service would weed the bastards out...they would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law...and if found guilty...executed SWIFTLY.

If I could not have prevented the situations of proliferations and biological weapons threats, I would utilize the CIA and its field agents to find, infiltrate and then neutralize the threat with the full force of the U.S. military. We would not tolerate such threats to our nation or peoples. Justice would be swift and severe, with EVIDENCE...CLEAR EVIDENCE of the threats posed to us presented to the world as a witness to justify our actions.

If that sounds harsh, I will remind you that we rebuilt both Germany and Japan after WWII, so our mercy and generosity is quite well documented.

I just think the world needs to respect us out of FEAR if they cross the line of our security. We just don't have it now at all. Reagan proved a strong military, and the fear of our might brings totalitarian regimes to the negotiating table...and ultimately to collapse.

Do we need government? Sure, to provide for the common defense and to maintain the parameters outlined in the Constitution. I just think the American people used to be better able to take care of themselves than to wait upon government.

Your shot sir.......

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), July 27, 1999.

INVAR:

I just think the world needs to respect us out of FEAR if they cross the line of our security. We just don't have it now at all. Reagan proved a strong military, blah blah

Hell man, we just bombed Serbia back into the pre-industrial era, doesn't that count for something?

-- a (a@a.a), July 27, 1999.

yep, it counts for bad entangling karma in the tinderbox of World Wars, subverting the law of UN & NATO, and getting more radical nutcases very po'ed at the USA right before Rollover. Brilliant.

-- h (h@h.h), July 27, 1999.

--a,

To add to what --h posted above:

We bombed a Christian nation that was our ally in WWII, that was embroiled in it's own disgusting civil war during the beginnings of the Chinese espionage scandal that precipitated the release of the Cox report on the Administration's involvement. Something just a bit fishy there as to the timing?

Not to mention using a defensive alliance by its own Charter and bastardizing it as an international attack force....

What it counts for --a, is the condemnation and distrust of the United States on the global stage.

They aren't going to forget that little bully action we orchestrated in Serbia --a, those folks can wait a long time...as history proves.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), July 27, 1999.

Uhhhhh a; news came out today we didn't do much damage over there after all. To answer the question,,,, the only one you can trust is YOURSELF.

-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), July 27, 1999.

Hey Flame,

Do you love how the Brits said it was all our (Clinton's) fault?

Bwahahahahahahaha!

I'd love Andy's take on that one! For once I agree with the Crown!

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), July 27, 1999.

Truly you guys post an ugly picture. I hate to hang my head in shame when I personally was not responsible for shameful deeds. This whole deal sucks. If anyone is reading this stuff from a country who doesn't share in our governments' guilt, please know that we are all just impatiently awaiting the next election and the end of this current jerk's reign. The reality is, real Americans love their children too.

-- Roger (pecosrog@earthlink.net), July 27, 1999.

Invar,

Great points. BUT Germany did not receive the help it got from the U.S. because of generosity. It was simply to keep the russian at bay. Of course another reason was to have someone that could buy your goods as well... Made in America.

Just wanted to point that out. By the way. Did you know that Germany was the only country that paid the U.S. back in full..!! That was fulfilled in I believe 1968 or so. Could be wrong though... I just know that Germany paid all it's debts.

I agree with you on all of the above though.. just had to point this out.

-- STFrancis (STFrancis@heaven.com), July 28, 1999.

The more a person in government has power, the less trustworthy. Simple as that. So, I would trust Ron Paul over Dick Armee. Etc.
Why? Because in government, the scum rises to the top.

-- A (A@AisA.com), July 28, 1999.

As a redneck idiot who votes Republican in the primaries but then capitulates to the Democrats (but never Clinton) or Perot in the General - last night "the body" really had me nodding along with him.

Reform party, here I come.

-- Lisa (lisa@work.now), July 28, 1999.

Invar & a,

It's a Wag the dog World and we eat it up.

Sucks, doesn't it?

Father

-- Thomas G. Hale (hale.tg@att.net), July 29, 1999.