Track & Cheat : LUSENET : MAME Action Replay : One Thread

Wrote this using Word 6.0, if this LOOKS terrible(no line breaks etc)...tell me what to do. TRACK & CHEAT I'm writing about this very popular topic, not to make anymore yes-no conversation or to vote about it, but to make an ending to it and hoping that somebody (zwaxy?) does something about it. So here we go!

I have finally checked top 8 TRACKNFLD inps, except Krogman's(5.) which was recorded with winmame, and was amazed: THEY ARE ALL CHEATS!!! How can I judge this?- I used to be VERY good in this game in the 80's: I played game which was set to continue after first round and could play it endlessly. We used to have quite a fierce competition in this game,and only one guy besides me ever run 100m under 7.60. My PB of 100m was 7.47 using sixfinger-system and buttons with "guards", which I thought would be very close to WR-and it is: Kelly Kobashikava, who is to my knowledge the world record holder of T&F(one round only) has run about 7.30 using eight finger method and no guards(which is slightly easier). After all this game is about having very fast fingers,and my other records are almost equal to 100meters record. 100m- 7.47 long jump-9.72 manymanytimes javelin- 99.80 (I also threw couple of times over 100m "solo") 110m- 9.99 "solo" and 9.52 someone pushing jump button for me hammer- 99.49 for this you have to get 3perfect 45 angles in a row with speed of 1484 into lower corner(I didn't use tapping, when it's possible to get 1500 speed and 99.99) high jump- I think it was 2.49

I've uploaded my current mame record of 92 300 -and no cheating. This is far best upload without cheating in MARP. Check it out and see how it looks if it's done fair. It also includes picture of my mame 100m record 7.74 with endspeed of 1254 (if anyone doubts this combination, I have also an inp-file of it). Everyone who knows something about this game would admit that you get best results using buttons. With joystick or pad you just can't expect to get even close to speed that mastering six-to eight finger system gives you.

If I recall right, I used to have at the end of 100m speed like 1280 -if it was a fast run. Best I could get could've been something like 1300-1310. I've never seen a long jump speed over 1500, although I recall having speed of 1497 ONCE-if you step right in the line, game gives you +50 cm/sec.

There are couple of ways to master highjump-way1:tap with your both hands using your forefinger to alternate angles. Faster you tap, higher you rise. 2:at the beginning of jump use six fingers method to get maximum height and in the middle of jump switch to way1(this one takes some practice to master). Best solo jumps I've witnessed are something like 2.49-2.50. Best high jump records at the arcade were made threesome:couple of guys using sixfingers on both running buttons and one controlling angles button. This works only on "after throw" of javelin, high jump and hypersports. On T&F running events, this only slows down your speed. I think we got past 2.54 or 2.55 this way(cheating), getting speed that rises the back of your man to same level where audience starts, which is impossible solo. If you don't believe me, try it yourself... About highjump scores: 2.47 is good, 2.48 is very good, 2.49 (I've mamejumped over this), 2.50 should be possible-atleast with arcade buttons (I have my doubts if anyone mamejumps over this), 2.51 CAN'T BE DONE WITHOUT CHEATING AND 2.52 DEFINITELY NOT-you simply can't get enough speed if you're playing solo to get over 2.51, and I really have to doubt any height over 2.49 . How can these guys who don't run under 8.5 in 100m, all jump over 2.52 since I'm having trouble with 2.48? Answer is: THEY ALL HAVE SOME KIND OF JOYPADS WITH AUTOFIRE, but are dared to use it in running events because of the critic that mr. Lamat had. But everyone? Maybe it's like this: If everyone else is doing it, why not me too?

and here are those scores achieved by cheating:

1. Phil Lamat 95 840-"Ben Johnson of videogames" (sorry Phil, couldn't resist that one)

(-entering initials looks way too glumsy(no speed here...)) -100m 7.02 -would you really think that he is in hes own class compared to WR-holder Kelly K, using keyboard,joystick or whatever. This time is virtually same as they used to make with an electric toothbrush... -long jump -power bar goes to speed of 1559(which is ridiculous), he doesn't even get right angle of 42 but instead he jumps with angle 43 and has the maximum jump of 9.72----and look at his other jumps, they're really poor: If you are good at running, you should have played so much that it would be easy to get your jump timed very close to line with right angle... 110m -9.15 not possible even if you're helped with friend pressing your jump button(or use mouse as a pedal...) -javelin 1520 speed -if you take a hundred out of that, you're quite close to a maximum speed -he really doesn't cheat on high jump, because don't know how...Imagine if he had even known about the 1000 points mole trick-then this would beat world record. Someone can't be so good(only on running) and not know these kind of things. Someone has really "confirmed" this colossal bag of autofire? :-(

2. Renzo Vignola 94 490 -this recording may look real at first, but after closer look it's really a good cheat: (-initial entering stage looks glumsy-every good player I've known always used sixfingers in this too.) -100m 7.69 with end speed of 1359. My mame record is 7.74(so far) and enspeed was 1254, so there is only 0.05 sec difference in time and over a hundred cm/sec endspeed difference....!!! -long jump -speed of 1447 without crossing line, and on 3. jump 1461 speed with line that gives +40 =1501speed. This might be possible, but two jumps with such a can't get that often maximums because speed depends on rhythm too, which is hard to master everytime(this is why you get different results each time running 100m with good start) -110m 9.54, slightly touching last hurdle, yes, sure... -javelin -1420 SPEED WHEN THROWING ALMOST 10 METERS AWAY FROM THE LINE, simply not possible. It's in the very end of run you pull out speed that rocks. -high jump 2.51 -jumping very far away and still easily over. Looks like he would have jumped over 2.55 if he didn't have decided not to even try after 2.51...

3. Dith 91 000 How is it possible to run 100m 8.72 and still get over 2.52 at high jump 4. Stig Remnes 89 790 -high jump 2.52

6. gameguru 88 640 -javelin - You should always tap buttons after a throw, this way you get longer throws. With a friend tapping other button using six fingers and me tapping other, we could get very long throws, sometimes well over 100meters. Gameguru didn't have very good speed(only about 1300), but still couple of very long throws(you never throw very far with first attempt or after "foul"). So this one shows very clearly that there is similar speed cheat used as in high jump... -high jump 2.52

7. kra 88 000 No other cheating on this one except he played over 1 round, finishing off in javelin of 2. round

8. joustgod 87 020 high jump 2.52

Sad, I suspect all the clones look same, and whatabout hypersports then? Well anyway we should dump these scores and begin with a fresh start at least for tracknfld "official romset".

ps. word is free, who is first to "confess". Comments appreciated only if you're an "expert" and don't give us "it could be possible with joystick" bullshit

a bit rough, eh? Tommi

-- Tommi Tiihonen (, July 27, 1999


Some very good observations, Tommi. As far as my recording is concerned, I used nothing more than what the MAME team has provided for this game and that is the left shift "run like hell cheat". I can't speak for the others as to exactly how they've acheived the incredible speeds they have. The way I view it in this particular case is that each individual game in the "MAME arcade" has its own unique properties just like in a real arcade. That is to say, some arcades provided speed-up buttons for Pacman/Ms.Pacman, some arcades put guards up on T&F, some arcades may have had much easier settings on Defender than the arcade down the street. The point is that the MAME team has included this speed-up function in their "arcade". Am I going to use it? Hell yeah! There is no outside help going on here, just using what is provided with mame.exe.

I appreciate your great skills in T&F and watch good players like you with envy. I also concur with your observation that something isn't exactly on the level with some of the submissions (not all, just some). But like I far as my score is concerned, I used nothing more than a keyboard and the options that were provided. Now let's not get carried away thinking that use of the -cheat option is OK. (i.e. going to fetch Pugsy's cheat file and maybe there's a new cheat that lets you take the meter to 1600 or something ridiculous like that) That's a whole different world there and anyone with half a brain can figure out the answer to that one.

And that's all I've got to say about that.


-- JoustGod (, July 27, 1999.

I wouldn't consider this cheating unless MARP officially bans using autofire for games. However, It is unfair to people who play the game like it was in the arcade and not something with a joyport in front that you can plug in any configurable input device you like. I would like to see a forum for games that do use autofire, since even though it is repulsive to some to see a 2.5+ high jump, but to others it's "neat" to see how far a game can be pushed even if it is by diabolical means.

I am in the process of developing a method that will determine whether a recording uses autofire or not by measuring the time/frames between button presses and releases. Obviously no human could press and depress a button at exactally the same intervals, so i'm guessing most autofires are pretty chronic and will reveal that the button is pressed for n frames and depressed for m frames. There'll be standard deviations and taking off the first and last press and depress times of bursts to ensure accuracy.

Has anyone else developed or thought of developing something like this?

-- Chad (, July 27, 1999.

Thanks "Joustgod" , I allways thought this "run like hell" cheat was just a jo-ke. So it seems that mame-team has integrated this cheat into the emulator, which explains why it plays back. You still have to type "-cheat" to activate it and when playing T&F just hold down left shift or change that button in key-board setup-menu. Actually that cheat works only on: javelin,(after you've thrown it) giving you somewhat better results. hammer -you can get maximum speed (which you can do without this cheat too)but more importantly can get more consistant on ti-ming the throw. High jump-can jump something like 4 cm higher. So it's like couple of guys using sixfinger-system on both running buttons and doesn't help in any event that shows power-bar(you can run 100m slightly under 9 sec using it). Therefore it should be called "throw and highjump like hell"-cheat.

Sure I'm annoyed of mame T&F scores not being comparable with arcade ones, cause "rlh"-cheat gives little over 2000 points more. And ofcourse I'm puritanist who wants everything to be exactly like in the old times. Nevert-heless it could be quite difficult to spot this cheat given by mame-gods, for it works in events without power-bars. That makes noticing this cheat quite dif-ficult, if someone really wanted to make it look real.

And what do we do about it then? If you can't win them, join them. So "run like hell" can be allowed in my opinion. What do you other marpers think about it? Bad thing is that you can greatly speed up running in every running event of hypersports, which is another issue

There are still left those trackfld scores recorded by Lamat and Vignola that are made using some kind of autofire and KRA's score- So Chris, they real-lyshould be removed?

What do you other marp-or TG-men think? Tommi

-- Tommi Tiihonen (, July 28, 1999.

When I sent in my votes for Deca 2000 on Snipercade, I specifically said Track & Field should not be included under any circumstances. Autofire makes so much difference to the game it's essentially impossible to referee over the internet. If it were up to me, and my apologies to the wizards who can do it legit, no site - MARP included, would list T&F scores. Is that a strong enough answer for you?

Naturally it has recieved 15 votes - second only to Frogger.


-- Aquatarkus (, July 28, 1999.

Well said Tommi It`s blatantly obvious that those scores on T+F and HyperSports were obtained using Auto-fire. I`ve duplicated these speeds myself , but would never , and haven`t , dreamt of submitting them. I too am a puritan like yourself. Yeah, I can simply press Auto-fire and go like Ben Johnson, but that`s just TOO BORING. Where`s the challenge , or impetus to play the game? I`m amazed that these scores are still listed ( scores over 93k or so ), when they are obvious cheats , especially when you consider the controls available for the PC. Even if you had possession of the elusive Hotrod , speeds like this are questionable. And as you pointed out, there are glaring tell-tale signs that show that the players in question don`t have sufficient knowledge of the game , i.e less than full speed on the Hammer , crap angles , throwing @ 10m from the line , and in some cases not running in the air on the High Jump. But yet can excel in the speed department. Did someone say AUTO-FIRE?!! It is possible to breakdown an INP file and determine whether Auto- fire was used. To the best of my knowledge this applies only to Gamepad use. You can however use a joystick with an auto-fire switch and not be found out. This happened recently with a T+F submission to Snipercade, where someone had used this method. To cut a long story short, I was informed by the player in question , as to how he had obtained his speed. As I thought it was illegal and not in the spirit of the game , I mailed Ron Corcoran ( Snipercade ), and he duly + rightfully removed the score. If anyone wants to know how to breakdown an INP file , get in touch with Ron at Snipercade and he`ll give you the low-down , I`m sure. As the MARP controllers seem to tolerate cheats on this game, will they allow cheats on other games..i.e Ghosts 'n' Goblins ,Paperboy ,Q- Bert ...etc? No skill, but huge scores. As soon as I get some proper controls , I`ll submit some recordings on games, but I would like to think I am competing ( especially on T+F , H/Sports) against skill and not the touch of a button. If you think I`m right, give me a HELL YEAH !.........and thats the bottom line... ALEX

-- Alex Weir (, July 30, 1999.


Chris please remove all T&F and Hyper Sports recordings and let's start fresh!

I was actually one of the first to submit using the Run Like Hell cheat. That was a long time ago when it was agreed at MARP that this cheat was okay. The reason was that speed on a keyboard was no where near what could be acheived on the coin-op with buttons and the Run Like Hell cheat was still not as fast but closer and didn't destroy your keyboard. Since then, MARP has become a lot bigger with more competition. Now I think is the time to change this rule and make any autofire methods illegal.

Dith Track & Field page:

-- Dith (, July 31, 1999.

Folks, I most certainly agree with removing the autofire recordings of T&F, and its clones, but not the run like hell ones. Those it still takes some skill to hit the right angles, and the like.

-- Chris Parsley (, July 31, 1999.

What is the run like hell (RLH) cheat? and why wouldn't it be cheating simply because it preserves your keyboard?

-- Chad (, August 01, 1999.

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