Andy,

I think that rather than exploit a genuine concern, that has been addressed by the US Government, you should examine your inner self to relearn the basic principles of honesty and integrity in an effort to understand the core principles of human communication.

Otherwise your inscincere banter is an affront to any reader of this forum.

In a word "Insult"

My real name IS Thomas G. Hale. I can ALWAYS be reached at the e-mail below.

Coward.

Father

-- Thomas G. Hale (hale.tg@att.net), July 26, 1999

Answers

Thomas,

I think in this case the one thing that would really get to AR is to just read or skip over his posts without answering him. I think he feels power by getting a response. Positive, negative, it doesn't matter. He wants the immediate ego boost.

Sometimes I wish there was an ignore feature here like in AOL chat rooms (sometimes aol can do something right) where you could click on a name and simply ignore.

Mike

==============================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), July 26, 1999.

Mr. Hale,

You and I disagree on the matter, that is all. Oh, and we disagree about whether anonymity is really a big deal. I do not blame you for engaging in diversionary tactics - actually I applaud your efforts in the debate. If I had no more evidence than you for believing what I did, I would engage in similar debate tactics.

Dear Mr. Taylor,

You are correct. It would really teach me a lesson if people just ignored my posts. I have invited those so offended to do so in both past and recent posts.

Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), July 26, 1999.

Are there any good hackers out there? We could use one. RIGHT NOW!

b

-- b (b@b.b), July 26, 1999.

Andy Ray,

Nowhere in my statement to you did I address anything other than your credibility or your integrity. For a Reason.

To discuss the facts with an individual who willfully decieves is to invite the facts discussed to be twisted.

I do not wish to engage in serious issues with that as a basis for communication and understanding. That is beneath my integrity.

You go figure it out.

Father

-- Thomas G. Hale (hale.tg@att.net), July 26, 1999.

Mr. Hale,

I can only applaud your continued efforts and decision to avoid debate on the topic, and admire your integrity. However, you misunderstand or mis-characterise my intentions: My desire to remain anonymous is, in my opinion, not deception. If you veiw it thus, are you engaging in hypocrisy by not holding those who agree with your assessment of Y2K to the same standard?

Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), July 26, 1999.

Andy Ray has stated:

"I am authoring a book. The current working title is 'Showdown @ the Y2K Corral: a study in cybernoia.' A US publisher has expressed interest, and wants a manuscript in time for publishing in Jan 00. In a push, they can wait until Oct 99, but they would prefer something in aug."

The title of the book is intended to link paranoia to a factual event that will occur. This is both misleading to the public and off the point. It is also at odds with your "proclaimed" outside perspective since you have argued from the "Polly" perspective and admitted to anonymously posted as a "Doomer"

Why infect your case study, sir?

You have no intention of writing a book. You have NOT been at odds about participating in the Forum. And you are admitidly stirring up sicincerly concerned citizens.

What else would you have to write about? THAT IS YOUR TOPIC!!!!!!

Your topic is not the Hardware or the Firmware or the software or applications at all. You are only concerned with "Paranoia."

No need to pander in my direction. You neither admire me nor respect me.

Fraud. As for being anonymous, it is in that you choose to be intentionally decietfull AND anonymous. You have stated that you were persecuted? And now you are intentionally writting a book about "CYBERNOIA" I have nothing against the anonymity, but you go to far.

With all due respect, you have lost your credibility and consistency. You have made no effort to discuss anything, but the antagonistic questions and inflamatory comments that are typical of a Troll.

That is both unacceptable on an ethical level and reprehensible when concerned individuals choose to have serious dialouge. (Or just to discern the predicament and choose what course of action they feel is best.)

Father

-- Thomas G. Hale (hale.tg@att.net), July 26, 1999.

Mr. Hale,

Again, we simply disagree.

You typed:
The title of the book is intended to link paranoia to a factual event that will occur.
This is incorrect. The title of the book is such as to draw a potential reader's attention to it. Why write a book if not to sell it? It also provides it's bias - to which you merely disagree - on the cover. I freely admit it - again - the book is biased. When practically nothing happens, and practically nothing will, people will wonder why. I hope to have a book sitting at their local bookstore to offer one explanation as to why.

You accuse me of being disruptive, and yet when I exhibit polity, you dismiss it as 'pandering.' This is unfair - but defining of a mind- set that would fix upon social catastrophy as a hope.

It is also at odds with your "proclaimed" outside perspective since you have argued from the "Polly" perspective and admitted to anonymously posted as a "Doomer"
Wrong again. Perspective may be beyond you since you sold your soul (and potentially a great deal of your personal worth) to Y2K. I run into this all the time - with people wishing/waiting/hoping for me to be 'dead' after 000101. You misunderstand the value of perspective, as you misunderstand the interconnectedness of systems and the scope of potential Y2K failures (aka the mythological 'domino effect'). It will all be clear in a few months, but I already read positions defending the non-Jo Anne Effect; and setting us up to hear and read more gibberish about Y2K destroying society long after 000101; as a buttress position when nothing significant happens 000101.

By my observations (which are not all-encompassing); I see no people joining the GIs. I do know some people who have left the movement, however. They are spending their cash stores trying to reclaim some of the life and normal family existence they gave up. It is tragic to see families suffer so, especially the children. The fact is, sir, people are 'Getting It,' they are realising after the Jo Anne Guffaw the true nature of Y2K.

You have no intention of writing a book.
Well, sir, should things proceed, you will need only travel to your local bookstore around mid-January to prove that one. I will venture to say you are as correct about your hopes for a catastrophic Y2K as you are about a book being published documenting the folly of your beliefs.

In sum, to appear fraudulent in the eyes of someone who has your demonstrated ability for critical thinking is, sir, a compliment.

Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), July 26, 1999.

When practically nothing happens, and practically nothing will, people will wonder why.

I don't see this. People today don't expect anything to happen, their shepherds have led to expect infinite Pax-Americana Cybertopia. So why would they ask why ? Why should they wonder ? Your time spent on these fora is skewing your view of the importance of y2k to the average unit in the flock. Seems like your target audience is a person with all the following characteristics (i.e. only such a person would care enough to buy your 'explanation' of "what (didn't) hit me!?!?!"

• very interested in y2k
• knows all the doomer 'celebrities' (north, yourdon, y2knewire, milne)
• has gone deeply into preparation, perhaps incurring major financial loss
• does not believe or has not heard the govt/corp spins on y2k will be fine
• has never been exposed to the Polly schools of thought

  This is an inherently limited, almost self-contradicting audience expectation.
  
  -- Ct Vronsky (vronsky@anna.com), July 26, 1999.

off

-- Ct Vronsky (vronsky@anna.com), July 26, 1999.

Mr. Ray

Why infect your case study, sir? ...You have NOT been at odds about participating in the Forum. And you are admitidly stirring up sincerly concerned citizens. What else would you have to write about? THAT IS YOUR TOPIC!!!!!!

Case in point.

Who wants to read a book that was the result of someone poking fun at a group of individuals, whom the author obviously disagreed with on purely subjective terms, and then writing about it? It sounds like you are trying to write your own subject matter.

Hmmm, let me think. I don't have any material. I KNOW! I'll go over to Yourdon's site and throw this in their faces! Great Idea!

You are no Author, sir.

You are an antagonist.

The rest of your retorts to my assertions are senseless. You answer nothing. It's like you have nothing to write about.

Father

-- Thomas G. Hale (hale.tg@att.net), July 26, 1999.

Father- You had it right when you called him a COWARD!

-- Johnny (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), July 26, 1999.

Andy Ray,

You are incorrect to assume I would wish for social catastrophe.

That is a characterization that anyone with compassion would understand as false and misleading.

Why stoop to a base level of characterization?

Father

-- Thomas G. Hale (hale.tg@att.net), July 26, 1999.

Mr. Hale,

You typed:Who wants to read a book that was the result of someone poking fun at a group of individuals, whom the author obviously disagreed with on purely subjective terms, and then writing about it? It sounds like you are trying to write your own subject matter.

and

Why stoop to a base level of characterization?

Again, your mis-characterisation of my work is indicative of the critical thinking applied to the 'evidence' you 'see' for a catastrophic Y2K. You really are a wonderful representation of the mind-set I am seeking.

I appreciate your provision of a demonstration of your accusation, however hypocritical it makes you appear. I also appreciate your rants - it demonstrates to any semi-neutral reader your position better than any words of mine could possibly.

Your lack of understanding of processes involved to find the truth of another's beliefs is not astounding, when one considers the side of this debate you have deemed logical. Perhaps, your delusion complete, some of your words will make their way into a chapter or two - who knows? If possible, I would like to know what becomes of you after the non-events of 000101, as they would possibly become the basis for at least some small essay or other on post-Y2K 'GI's' in a largely unaffected world. And since you have chosen to use your 'real' name, it may be a simple matter indeed. All in all, the mere fact you have chosen to allow my words to reside rent-free in your mind - enough to inspire this post even - has earned you my pity. And that is unfortunate.

Sad Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), July 26, 1999.

"All in all, the mere fact you have chosen to allow my words to reside rent-free in your mind - enough to inspire this post even - has earned you my pity. And that is unfortunate. "

Sad Regards, Andy Ray"

Thomas

I think that Andy R feels it unfortunate that you were unlucky enough to read his words.

That is what you ment eh?

From now on Andy R. you have to pay us to have your thoughts reside in our minds :o) Better make a few sumbas off that book buddy!!!

By the way I just have to say how much I admire your style Andy R. You are my Hero (gush). Such humility is hard to find!!!

-- Brian (imager@home.com), July 26, 1999.

I don't honestly think Andy is authoring a book, at least not one that anything other than a "vanity press" would publish. He simply is not sufficiently literate. Oh, he *could* be deluding himself, but face it: there isn't much in his many posts that is of "published author" caliber. I have swapped messages with him, and I believe he'll cling to his Pollyanna view until the end. Meanwhile, ask you local survivalist supply what percentage of customers are programmers. Contrast with the percentage of U.S. population who are programmers. Looks like there are a LOT of people "with their noses in it," who don't share Andy's Pollyanna view of the situation.

Lane Dexter

"Be Prepared." --Boy Scout Motto

-- Lane Dexter (madison_6@hotmail.com), July 27, 1999.

You take alot for granted Mr (I beg to differ) Andy Ray

-- Feller (feller@wanna.help), July 27, 1999.

Hey, just ignore me, it is in your best interest. I am here to get attention, and to stir up trouble, that's it. So go on your merry way while I do my best to fill the empty hollow spot that is my life.

-- Instigator (stupid@jackass.dork), July 27, 1999.