Y2k is like knowing you have Cancer and about 6 mnths to live. I'm not saying that there can't be a chemotherapy remission or an operation that can extend your life, but the Doc says "you've probably got about 6 months to live with no treatment. Try this on for size, "pretend" you are the patient, whats your first reaction, are you scared or detached or just in denial. Dr Elizabeth Kubler-Ross wrote a book on the stages of dying and denial comes first. Just feel that denial, feel the tightness in your throat,your sweaty hands, THIS IS SCARY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Y2k is a lot like this, It's so scary that people have to deny it.

-- Henry Edward Nietopski (rickster@n-jcenter.com), July 25, 1999

Answers

Naw Henry you've got it all wrong...I don't think most people have made the Doctors appointment yet, ignorance is bliss.

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), July 25, 1999.

Oh come on, the cancer scenario is a bit extreme. I certainly don't look forward to next year, but I don't intend to spend my summer dreading it.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), July 25, 1999.

Henry: I was told 25 years ago that I had cancer. Depends on how bad you want to live. If the scenario 6 months from now is TEOTWAWKI then you may as well have cancer if you are not prepared. I never denied having it, I denied myself to succumb to it.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), July 25, 1999.

Y2k is more like playing on the freeway. If you're playing in the right spot, or are just plain lucky, you'll be fine. If you get the hell off the freeway, you'll be better off yet.

Y2k is not an incurable condition, you can prep for the worst, and hope for the best, it isn't a done deal. Call me a polly.

Y2k is more like a new stange lump, you won't know if it's cancer or just a fibrous cyst, untill next year.

-- CT (ct@no.yr), July 25, 1999.

Y2K is like caries. First there is pain, then the recognition that treatment must be provided in order to prevent loss. If time runs out before the corrections are made...

Got dentures?

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), July 25, 1999.

a painful lump that's growing fast and causing fatigue

-- cancer specialists (lumps@bump.inroad), July 25, 1999.

Hi Dino,

Long time no see.

Yup, if you don't brush and floss, you gunna lose them.

-- CT (ct@no.yr), July 26, 1999.

Have you known someone with cancer? No comparison.

Your heart will still beat on Jan 1. The sun will still rise. God will still rule.

Don't worry, everything else under God can be fixed. Don't live in fear.

-- Bryce (bryce@seanet.com), July 26, 1999.

"everything else under God can be fixed..."

yes, with the power up, yes, if you get paid, yes, if you're family can eat, yes, if they are protected from those who may be starving, yes, if we have petroleum for our JIT truck deliverys, yes, if the railways are working to feed our coal powered plants, YEEEEEEESSSSSSS

of course we'll get it fixed...

NO PROBLEMO

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), July 26, 1999.

Andy,

Uh.. Have you realized that about 50 percent of the world does not have many of the things you mentioned AT THIS DATE.

Billions of people are surviving RIGHT NOW with A. No power. B. No paycheck. C. Difficulty with food supplies/drought. D. No petroleum. E. No railways. F. No Coal fired plants.

By the way, I didn't say 'NO PROBLEM'. The author of this thread seams very fearful of the future. Probably from spending too much time here. His comparison to Cancer is ridiculous, except that he is serious.

I'm not going to dry up and die just because A-F fail (if in a remote chance they do).

-- Bryce (bryce@seanet.com), July 26, 1999.

Uh.. Have you realized that about 50 percent of the world does not have many of the things you mentioned AT THIS DATE.

####### Yes. Probably a lot more than 50% at a guess... #######

Billions of people are surviving RIGHT NOW with A. No power. B. No paycheck. C. Difficulty with food supplies/drought. D. No petroleum. E. No railways. F. No Coal fired plants.

####### So what's your point? This is a spurious straw man :) None of the above apply remotely to North America, England, Germany, Japan, OZ to name just five countries. Perhaps they apply to such as the poorest of Asian and African countries. I can assure you that if the West goes down their conditions will probably worsen too, even the poorest countries usually have something to trade. Having said that we will not be raping and exploiting their resources so some would undoubtedly prosper, for who knows how long... #######

By the way, I didn't say 'NO PROBLEM'. The author of this thread seams very fearful of the future. Probably from spending too much time here. His comparison to Cancer is ridiculous, except that he is serious.

####### Not ridiculous. Perhaps not accurate in your eyes, but not ridiculous. As for No Problem - that is what you implied - you have not taken into account cascading failures, the domino effect. Please be realistic Bryce. Yes we will fix everything IF the infrastructure remains similar to what we have now - however if things turn out to be not so peachy as you are confident they will be then we are in seriously deep shit. #######

I'm not going to dry up and die just because A-F fail (if in a remote chance they do).

####### Yes you probably will dry up and do just that - die, depending on where you live, how prepared you are, how determined you are, and how lucky you are. If you are in a major population centre and lose A to F then you are a gonner my friend. Confidence and self belief are marvellous - however in the A-F scenario you would be lucky to last a few weeks IMHO - no food/water/electricity/job/money etc. with the inrastructure having collapsed - it's Mad Max time Bryce :) #######

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), July 26, 1999.

Hi Andy,

My point is that this is NOT the same thing as getting Cancer. This is NOT a death sentence. People in the past and currently experience worse things and survive.

I agree with your point about pillaging resources, etc..

I didn't imply 'no problem'. I'm saying that with faith, people can work through anything. The author of this note, 'CancerMan', seems to have already given up and resigned himself to fate.

Man, I grew up in New Mexico on checkerboard land. I WAS MAD MAX. I grew up with guns, knives. I drove construction trucks at 15. I was a Cavalry scout (black beret) ;-).

It's only recently (last 14 years) that I became a wuss programmer guy, mostly because of the money.

I've got skills and provisions. If something happens, I'll be one of the guys out there trying to help. Not some fearful guy hiding in his house.

I'm a christian, and Y2K can bite me.

-- Bryce (bryce@seanet.com), July 26, 1999.

UHHHHHHHH one small point here. The people in the third world countries KNOW how to live under those conditions. We, for the most part, have forgotten !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They could be better off than us.

-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), July 26, 1999.

Most of the U.S. population lives in the suburbs (like me).

How many people in our suburbs have fruit trees? How many of them have vegetable gardens? How many of them have wells? How many of them keep chicken/rabbits in their back yard, or would know what to do with one if they did?

Practically none. But it's these things that are keeping many Russian people alive thru hard times. We have NONE of the survival fall-back systems in place that our ancestors would have recognized only a century ago, & which you can see in other places right now.

Maybe cancer is a poor analogy, but it's still not good news, folks.

-- persistant cookie (in@my.mouth), July 26, 1999.

cancer is very appropriate analogy
malignant date snafu metastasizing, will shut down vital systems in January 2000

-- cancer specialists (lumps@bump.inroad), July 26, 1999.

It's very appropriate, but not quite accurate. Cancer doesn't usually kill within a few short weeks. Y2K will. Millions will likely be dead before the end of January.

-- (its@coming.soon), July 26, 1999.

"Millions will likely be dead before the end of January."

If there's violence, disease, contaminated water, sure. But not from simple hunger.

Let's face it, the average American has at least 20 extra pounds of fat on his/her body, & for some of us it's more like 50-100+ lbs. We're as over-fed as our cattle. Lately I'm about 15 lbs over my comfort level, but have not been motivated to diet. Why bother? I'm filling a closet with food; why not store some on my hips & thighs as well?

-- getting (a@little.chubby), July 26, 1999.

If there's violence, disease, contaminated water, sure. But not from simple hunger.

Exactly. Unfortunately, there will be far more violence, disease, and contaminated water to kill millions when Y2K hits. Starvation is the least of your worries.

-- (its@coming.soon), July 26, 1999.

I understand what this poster meant, for I also feel the sense of impending doom which we all (but pollys)so freely express on this forum and others for Y2K. How can one be preparing for the worst, with total focus on working towards survival, and NOT feel anxiety? I have a deep lifelong spiritual foundation and faith, but that does not mean that I do not have the feelings associated with being told that one has a potentially life-threatening disease. Let us be kind to one another's perceptions, and give support to those who hurt the most. If we cannot do it now, how will we later?

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), July 26, 1999.

Hello Elaine,

Some of the reasons that I don't feel an impending doom is that: A. I've prepared. I believe in being prepared in general because I'm useless to others if I can't even feed my family. B. I know my neighbors and local police. C. I write software, and I constantly see software bugs including catastrophic ones (the thrill has worn off). D. (maybey I should have made this (A)) I believe that God is the author of change. I'm not subject to some computer bug even if I end up without electricity and I have to search for water or even change careers (become a farmer?).

This cancer analogy makes me sick. What kind of young americans are we raising? When did we become a nation of wusses. My grandparents lived through the depression, WW I, WW II, Korea, Viet Nam.. Most men in my family served in at least one of the above.

Whatever happens, it won't get better if we wuss out.

-- Bryce (bryce@seanet.com), July 26, 1999.

I don't think the issue is about being a "wuss." It's about being prepared. If you don't know or understand how bad it's really going to be, it's hard to prepare for some of the horrors we will soon face. Are you ready if the police are nowhere to be found? Are you ready if your neighbors turn to you for food, or if some even try to kill you in their desperation to survive? It can be very depressing to think about, but it has to be done. It certainly doesn't make one a "wuss." This is going to be FAR FAR worse than any war.

-- (its@coming.soon), July 26, 1999.

"When did we become a nation of wusses. My grandparents lived through the depression, WW I, WW II, Korea, Viet Nam."

A whole lot of people did NOT live thru WWI & WWII. No one even knows the body count, but we know that it's an Everest of corpses: men, women, little kids, babies, old people, cripples. Maybe 50+ million people, mostly horrible deaths.

My parents/grandparents survived largely due to geography. That mankind was destined to survive WWII would have been little comfort to those who went "up the chimney." That something similar, if not worse, may be looming in our future gives me no comfort at all. So, does all of that make me a "wuss"?

-- wuss is (as@wuss.does), July 26, 1999.

You guys have totally missed the point of my posts.

If you look at the thread, you have a man (perhaps a young man) that compares Y2K to Cancer. In effect, he has given up and resigned himself to fate..

Do any of you have a problem with this? Is that really how you want to face a problem? What a crappy attitude! With that outlook you could not survive if locked inside a grocery store.

Not having electricity or other utilities is minor. As I tried to point out many people around the world have NOTHING like what we have here.

Even if every embedded chip fails, and every software program that was ever written failed 100%. We would still have: 1. Housing (better than the rest of the world). 2. The best, most fertile land in the world. 3. An educated population. 4. A temperate climate. (Generally we don't live in the dessert or on the poles). 5. Rivers, lakes, wilderness and VAST natural resources. 6. Friendly borders. No threat from Canada, Mexico. Nothing crawling out of the sea from the atlantic or pacific.. 7. An armed population that can defend itself from tyrants/looters, etc. Put yourself in the looters position, what chance would you have in this country where 1/3 of houses have at least one gun!

We don't HAVE to die or fall into anarchy just because the power goes out! We can actually adapt.

I think anyone who compares a series of date rollover bugs to WW II or the Great Depression either doesn't know history, or needs to get a reality check.

-- Bryce (bryce@seanet.com), July 26, 1999.

"Even if every embedded chip fails, and every software program that was ever written failed 100%. We would still have: 1. Housing ..." etc., etc.

Yes, "we" would still have all of those things. However, "we" would have no telecommunications, no banking, no chemical industry, no transportation, no (mass/industrial) agriculture, etc. Ergo, "we" -- 270 million in this country -- would become (say) 100 million, or 50 million, in a big hurry (i.e. megadeaths). But "we" would indeed still have our homes, our climate, etcetera. Certainly "we" would all get by just fine, no?

-- alan (foo@bar.com), July 26, 1999.

Ya know guy's, this post was about the very powerful defense mechanism called Denial, but I guess that the word CANCER scared everyone into thinking almost immediatly that this was what I was concerned with. Why such a strong reaction, what stopped you there and blurred everythin I said after the word CANCER. Oh no, its not like cancer, it can't be, he 's wrong, Y2k isn't like that!!!! Look at how CANCER pushed your buttons............. Did denial enter into the picture?

-- Henry Edward Nietopski (rickster@n-jcenter.com), July 26, 1999.

Henry, I don't deny that very bad things will happen to those who least expect them.

I'm surrounded by denial boobyheads who are doing absolutely nothing now. They are waiting for a sign somewhere down the road.

Maybe if they had cancer, they would prepare to meet their Maker. Many going into Y2K unprepared will meet their Maker soon enough.

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), July 26, 1999.

Bryne ---- No intent to flame you "at all". We are a nation of wusses. We are not strong, we gave that up, we a whinners, a nation of sighers, all we do is want, want, want, and if we don"t get what we want we go into a funk, or run off to the doctors to get something to help us cope. I wish to God our nation was populated with people who have been thru what you have. I'd feel a lot better about this Y2K thing than I do now.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), July 27, 1999.

Hi Alan,

I guess I don't see it that way.. I live in the NorthWest and I'm generally a suburbanite. Still, If I look into the valley, not four miles from my house are farms, vinyards, food processing plants, etc.

I suppose your point of view on the number of deaths is shaped by where you live. From my point of view, the NorthWest is a place where you could live off the land without too much work. We have tons of black berries, blue berries and the like that just rot on the land and are considered a nuisance. Many people I know grow their own food for 'entertainment?'

If you live in a mega city like NY or LA and TSHTF there could be riots. I don't want to make lite of this.

-- Bryce (bryce@seanet.com), July 27, 1999.

thinkIcan,

Hi, I'm lucky in that I have relatives with first hand knowledge of some of the hardest times imaginable. My grandparents, (and my wifes) are very old. I guess you could give them a year or two, probably not three.

I feel sorry for newer generations that won't be able to talk to people that actually endured the Great Depression or WW II. It's a real eye opener the stories they tell.

My wifes grandpa was on the Missouri (spelling?) during the island hopping invasions. He's still partially deaf from the guns.

My wifes grandma went through the depression on a farm. All of their cows were killed by the government because of a disease scare (I forget what disease). They lost their livelyhood. Eventually they lost their farm, and the mom and dad pulled the three daughters across two counties in toy coaster wagons (she showed me the pictures) to where they could find work.

A family fried served on a machine gun squad at normandy. His whole squad was killed. Then he joined a bunch of guys with mortars, only three of eight of them survived.

My Grandfather was in the Phillipines. My wifes' other grandfather was in the Phillipines. My uncles were in Nam. My dad was in the Indian army in the himalayas.

I mean holy cow.. talk about suffering! How can I talk about a date rollover bug.. I mean really! What, my power is going to go out! I don't get my cable TV.. I have to actually THINK about where my food comes from!

-- Bryce (bryce@seanet.com), July 27, 1999.

Hi Andy Ray! New monicker?

-- J (jart5@bellsouth.net), July 27, 1999.

Randolph & it's:

Thanks for the tips. You're entitled to your opinions.

-- Blair (blair@klinnet.net), July 27, 1999.