What's a "Rifled Slug" used for?

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Last weekend, I was buying some additional shotgun ammo, and noticed something I'd never seen before. It was in the buckshot section, but it was called "Rifled Slugs." They look like a big fat bullet in a shotgun shell.

I'm sure they don't have anything resembling a true rifle bullet's range, and it doesn't have the shot pattern which gives shotguns a unique advantage?

Does anybody know what there use is? Close quarters deer hunting?

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 22, 1999

Answers

Something like that, Dog Gone.

*Very* effective against large animals of all types.

Hope you got a few rounds.

-- Wilferd (WilferdW@aol.com), July 22, 1999.


I admit I bought about 30 rounds (all but one of the boxes on the shelf), but when I got home I felt like an idiot for not knowing what they were designed for. This is good news, because my cabin has a back woods that is chock full of deer. I had been planning on using 00 Buckshot from the deer stands, but now I've got another option.

Thanks.

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 22, 1999.


Dog,

There are two types of shotgun slug currently popular- the "rifled" or Foster-type slug you mention, and the sabot (say-boh) slug. The Foster-type slug has a 'rifling' pattern of spiral grooves engraved on the slug itself, which in theory will make it spin as it travels down the smooth bore of a shotgun barrel. They are essentially what you describe- a big fat bullet in a shotgun shell. And you're right- they don't have a regular rifle bullet's range or accuracy. Part of the reason for that is their slower muzzle velocity (around 1200- 1400 feet per second if I recall correctly). They are also very heavy compared to a regular rifle bullet.

If your shotgun has rifle-type sights, rifled slugs might be accurate out to a hundred yards or so. With the bead sight that comes on most barrels you might find it difficult to hit things further away than 40-50 yards. Much will depend on your particular shotgun barrel, as every shotgun seems to be a law unto itself as far as performance with any given load is concerned. Try it out on paper so you'll know, in an area with a safe backstop as always. Be sure to wear ear and eye protection as well as being safe while practicing.

BTW, the sabot slugs are generally used by people who have rifled barrels on their shotguns or rifled screw-in choke tubes and who shoot slugs exclusively. The slug itself is smaller than bore diameter and surrounded by a plastic jacket (the sabot, French for 'shoe') which falls away after the slug leaves the muzzle. These shotguns firing sabot slugs are often more accurate than Foster-type slugs fired from a smoothbore, but rifled barrels obviously won't work well with buckshot or small shot. The smoothbore is more versatile though it may not be as accurate with slugs. Your shotgun may have certain preferences even as far as brands of slugs are concerned- try each of the major manufacturer's products and see if your gun has any particular favorite.

Slugs are indeed useful for deer hunting, at ranges limiteded by the accuracy of the shotgun and the ability of the shooter. Some areas limit deer hunting to shotguns, which is why more specialized outfits to shoot slugs are on the market these days.

-- Lee (lplapin@hotmail.com), July 22, 1999.


Ah. The gun "Lobby" has checked in. Dog Gone, listen to what Mr. Lapin has to say. He knows that of which he speaks.

Oh. And just kidding about the him being the gun lobby. I'm really the gun lobby.

To sum it up, the rifled slug will let you project the knock down power of your smooth bore shotgun out to ranges beyond that at which your shot pattern spreads wide. Re-read what Mr. Lapin said about the sights/bead on your shotgun as to effective range.

Watch six and keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), July 22, 1999.


The rest of the gun lobby (me) agrees. I have 100 rifled slugs stored away for my shotgun. Very impressive against soft targets up to 100 yards...

snoozin'...

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), July 22, 1999.



Wow! Great information! I'll go clean the store out of them, unless you get there first!

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 22, 1999.

Two of our shotguns have special barrels for using slugs in. I thought this was the case with all shotguns. Am I mistaken?

-- Beckie (sunshine_horses@yahoo.com), July 22, 1999.

Beckie,

Some companies manufacture shotguns which allow barrels to be interchanged by the owner (Remington, Mossberg, Winchester etc.). It's easy to get a special slug barrel to put on those if you want. Most accessory barrels cost about $150 new, about half to three fourths that used, when you can find them that is. Some other brands do not allow easily interchangeable barrels and are pretty much single purpose guns. I don't know which brand your shotguns are, but if they have special slug barrels on them I'd consider that an advantage. Not all shotguns have slug barrels- in fact, most do not.

In addition to rifle-type sights, most special slug barrels are somewhat undersize in bore diameter. This makes it more likely they will shoot admittedly loose-fitting slugs fairly accurately. Since slugs from different manufacturers will vary in size, try several brands to see if your gun has a preference. Some may well be more accurate than others. Only paper will tell- check for yourself to be sure what any particular load will do out of any particular barrel. There are very few generalities where shotgun performance is concerned. That said, here's the most applicable generality: within individual limitations (of the gun, its ammunition and the shooter) there are few more useful firearms available than a good shotgun.

For those of you who are interested in large-bore beasts as pets, there are some articles on the web you might like. For what they're worth: (any html slingers feel free to jump in here)

http://www.scattergun.com/articles.html (Scattergun Technology's home page, a company that does great things for tired Remington shotguns- or new ones for that matter. Your budget's the limit... .)

http://www.ipass.net/~mpenman/shotgun.htm (Mark Penman's page, gun stuff and libertarian rants.)

" " " /870full.htm

" " " /copper.htm

" " " /buckshot.htm

-- Lee (lplapin@hotmail.com), July 22, 1999.


For Beckie:

It sounds like you have a rifled barrel for sabot rounds and a smooth barrel for for birds and such as part of a combo package. I put together the same combination for deer and turkey season coverage with one gun.

One thing for everyone to keep in mind is DO NOT put rifled slugs through a rifled barrel. The first few rounds will go through but rifled slugs are reverse twist and will shave off a lot of lead in the rifling.

Such fouling the bore is a real safety hazard. After more than a few rounds you run the risk of a slug sticking in the barrel and possibly having a barrel explosion. Such an occurence is a life-altering, maybe life ending event and should definitely be be avoided.

A shotgun slug rule of thumb for safety is: Rifled slugs in smooth barrels. Smooth sabots in rifled barrels.

For Dog Gone:

My smooth-bore 870 can hold a six inch group with rifled slugs out to about eighty yards or so. With my scoped 870 shooting 3" sabots, I can hold a three inch group out to 125 yards.

I think that either way you'll find slugs or sabots are an improvement over buckshot for deer hunting. Too many guys I know who hunt in NY using buckshot have the deer get away. The effective range is too short for the shot the average hunter takes. A well-placed shot with an effective, tight group would be about thirty-five yards.

Very few deer get away after a well-placed slug or sabot. And with an effective range out at eighty to over one hundred yards you probably can't see as far as the slug can take a deer in a woody or brushy area.

But keep the buckshot for close-in work with other kinds of varmints you may be unfortunate enough to encounter in serious Y2K disruptions. You can deter a whole pack of those sorry critters with a few rounds and they'll be trying to get close to you instead of running away like game animals.

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), July 22, 1999.


In law enforcement weapons training, I learned that the shotgun rifled slugs are very effective against opponents in frame buildings (and similar structures). They go right through the wall... The preferred method was to load alternate rifled slugs and 00 buckshot rounds. Buckshot through the window and rifled slugs through the wall about a foot from the window...

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), July 22, 1999.


Got it. Slugs for the deer (the woods are so thick at my place I don't think I can have a line of sight more than 50 yards. Buckshot for nasty varmints sneaking up the driveway.

I love this forum!

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 22, 1999.


Dog Gone,

Do keep in mind that slugs drop rather quickly. At 50 yds they drop about 4-6 inches from point of aim and at 100 yds it's about 10 inches. This means you may actually have to aim above the target you want to hit. As mentioned above, practice, and pratice safely.

PS - Slugs are also good for stopping trucks, opening doors, or sinking boats (should you ever need to accomplish any of those tasks).

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), July 22, 1999.


Dog Gone,

Agree with all of the above. The rifled slug is very accurate with a little practice. Have taken many deer over the years, especially when hunting very thick woods or cutovers that have grown up. We always called em brush-busters cause I've seen em cut down 3" diameter trees and still deliver a quick humane harvest.

If you're looking for a good home defense load I just recieved some that I ordered from Sportsman's Guide. It's called Special Tactical Buckshot Load made by Estate cartridge inc., 12 ga.2 3/4" rd. delivers 22 #4 buckshot pellets @1220 F.P.S.,low recoil,used by the military for training. Price is pretty good, box of 50 rds.-$17.97 or 100 rds. for $29.97. Shot some at the range this morning, totally awesome at 15 yards or less!

Remember to practice, practice, practice and keep your bore clean!

-- Ex-Marine (Digging In@Home.com), July 22, 1999.


I happened on to a retired Alaska Fish and Game officer who was selling some of his guns in preparation to leaving the state. He had been a field guy for 30 years. I bought his #1 most carried bear defense gun. Here's the fun part. It was a clunky, ratty looking old signle shot 12 ga shotgun. Now this guy had his choice out of all the weapons in the world and chose this gun.

I asked him about his logic. It was as follows. #1 item is reliability. #2 item is reliability and #3 item is - you guessed it - reliability. #4 was lightness. He carried it a *lot*, every day for weeks on end. While the light single shot will kick the snot out of you as compared to a heavier gun, recoil is not a real issue when you have 800-900 lbs of bear coming at you.

We are talking about bears the size of a Volkswagen (more of less). They are real. They are there. I have seen them. They have never failed to raise the hackles on the back of my neck even at a couple of hundred yards.

He had, over his carrear had to kill 16 bears who could not be discouraged by other means. He used slugs exclusively. He said slugs had NEVER failed to drop the bear in it's tracks when the shot was properly placed.

Like the FBI guy said: "this is what I call a clue"

-Greybear

-- Got TP?

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), July 22, 1999.


Got TP. Gotta get more slugs. You guys are an awesome source of information. I've got to remember to aim high. 6" at 50 yards is a lot.

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 22, 1999.


Dog Gone , If you wish to email me I have a suggestion for your slug gun- shot gun. It helps stop the game your shooting at for dinner... Furie...

-- Furie (furieart@dnet.net), July 22, 1999.

If I've got it right, these are the hotlinks Lee requested (I'm still learning this stuff).

Scattergun

Tactical Shotguns

The 75-Yard Riot Gun

Effects of Copper- Plating on Shotgun Pellet Performance

Buckshot Patterning Test Results



-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), July 23, 1999.


Dog Gone

concur with everything above (altho it looks like you don't need any more info or persuading). i happened to walk into our wally world just as they marked down their slugs after last year's deer season. since it was a great price, i picked up 25 boxes (@ 5 rounds ea). wife thought i was nuts. oh, well.

-- Cowardly Lion (cl0001@hotmail.com), July 23, 1999.


This might be one of the top professional information threads that I have seen on this forum, including the 'classic' version. When a serious subject is responded to in this manner, it reminds me why the TB2000 forum(s) continue to be the premier sources of web based, Y2K prep information. BTW, the novice warrior might wish to stop predators prior to their intrusion inside the kill zone of a shotgun slug projectile. In a close combat firefight situation , one miss is usually all you get. However, the sub-sonic noise from a close quarters 'rifled' slug has been known to induce heart failure.

-- For (your@info.com), July 23, 1999.

Off to wally world right after work. Thanks for everything. I need more slugs just to practice. I don't want the first one I fire to be either for hunting or defense.

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 23, 1999.

To anyone that might be interested:

During WWII, shotgun ammo of any kind was hard to come by. My grandfather bought a case of #7 1/2 shot to hunt deer with. He cut the end of the shotshell flush with the top of the shot (in other words, he cut the crimp off), and poured melted beeswax in slowly till it wouldn't take any more, set them aside to cool and harden, and he had an improvised slug. Probably not as accurate as commercial slugs because the commercial jobs are hollow based like a badminton shuttlecock which causes them to fly true. Those little riflings do little to cause them to rotate, and it is the air flowing around them that causes that, not their contact with the bore.

I personally load all my shotgun ammo. For slugs, I use a .69 calibre round ball cast from pure lead. They work great, fitting inside a red AA wad perfectly, and since they are a little lighter than the standard 1 1/4 oz load, their velocity is close to 1700 fps (I chronographed them once).

Gerald

-- Gerald R. Cox (grcox@internetwork.net), July 23, 1999.


For Your Info:

The sounds of a pump action shotgun being racked in the dark, be it a supersonic, subsonic, or whatever sound, has been known to give people heart failure. Nevermind the sound of that airborne slug, which an intelligent person won't wait around to hear.

WW Who's heard that on a dark night. And who thought he did have heart failure that instant.

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), July 23, 1999.


WW,

Amen to that... That distinctive sound will stop a LOT of intrusions...

gettin' a drink,

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), July 26, 1999.


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